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Hayseed

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: December 31, 2012, 03:59:26 PM

Moving on from defending Freeman. He has some work to do, definitely, but he's not the real problem to our woes this season. I think every educated Buc fan out there would agree that the secondary needs to be fixed and soon!

First, lets assume that Ronde has played his last game as a Buc. I will sorely miss seeing #20 making plays all over the field. Hopefully, he rubbed off a little on Barron, Leonard Johnson and Ahmad Black.

Second, lets assume Eric Wright is history. I think this is one of the worst signings in Domink's tenure. Not quite as bad as Quincy Black, but pretty bad okay? I was worried about this one from the get go but was to euphoric to see clearly at the time due to the Jackson and Nicks signing. Wright will not be missed.

Third, as I eluded to in the first assumption, I think the only real bright spots in our secondary at the moment are Mark Barron, Leonard Johnson and Ahmad Black. The rest of them can walk the plank. Biggers, Gaitor, all of them.

So, if those three are the only ones retained, how to proceed for next season? First, we have to look hard at free agency. There are definitely some options out there. People will probably think that Mike Jenkins or Dominque Rogers-Cromartie are the best options. Wrong. At least for this team, they are not the right fits. Pending any unforeseen cuts, I think Brent Grimes and believe it or not, Quentin Jammer might be some pretty solid signings that won't break the bank. Grimes is a very good corner that is coming off a season-long achilles injury. There will be some question marks, however, he is very familiar with NFC South receivers after playing for the Falcons. Coming off the injury, and with Atlanta being in decent shape with their corners, I think he can be had for a decent price. Jammer is very intriguing. Sure, he is getting old, but he is still five years younger than Ronde. He is also a very good cover corner and solid tackler. Additionally, he is a great locker room presence and all-around good guy. Jammer is most likely out in San Diego. With his age, we can probably get a couple of good seasons out of him and perhaps move him to FS in a few years. I think he could step in and fill some of that void left behind by Ronde.

Next, we have to look at the draft. We simply must make a significant investment at the corner position. Im going with the popular selection, Jonathan Banks out of MSU. He needs to add some weight but he has all of the tools to be a top-flight, shutdown corner in this league for many years. Plus, coming from the SEC, he has faced top notch competition. I wouldn't be opposed to visiting the corner position again. Even if Banks is available, Id still be interested in drafting Desmond Trufant or David Amerson in the 2nd/3rd round.

With all of that, I think the secondary could go from historically bad to top half of the league. I would definitely be comfortable with the following lineup on opening kickoff:

CB1: Brent Grimes
CB2: Quentin Jammer
CB3: Jonathan Banks
CB4: Leonard Johnson
SS: Mark Barron
FS: Ahmad Black

Unfortunately, there is more work to be done than just rebuilding the secondary. The defensive line will need shoring up as well. However, this will be nowhere near as extensive as the work needed in the secondary. With Clayborn coming back from injury and a blossoming DeQuan Bowers (very impressed with this kid), our defensive ends could be set. McCoy has had a great season and more pressure from the ends will only help him. I think Roy Miller should be a priority for us to resign. Now, what to do with Michael Bennett? I think unless he can be had for cheap (hometown discount, whatever you want to call it), we have to let him walk. We have invested too much in d-line and I think that Clayborn and Bowers can equal if not surpass his output. Really, I think we are dealing with depth along the line. Again, the draft would probably be the best place to start.

On the offensive side of the ball, I see four things that should be addressed: RB2, WR3, TE1, and LT2. For RB2 and WR3, I look to two St Louis Rams for the answer, and they wont be cheap. If there is one guy I want badly in free agency, it's Stephen Jackson. His days as a primary ball carrier are probably done. However, this dude would be amazing for us subbing for Dougie and in the 4th quarter. He is an excellent pass blocker and receiver out of the back field and gives Josh a helluva an insurance policy on check downs. Again, he wont be cheap but damn! Can you imagine our running attack with Doug Marting and Steven Jackson running behind a healthy Carl Nicks and Davin Joesph? Whew! For WR3, Id love have Danny Amendola. Perfect fit for our offense. He has speed, sure hands and is an excellent route runner. He gives Josh options underneath. He probably won't be cheap either.

TE1 and LT2 wont be easy either. LT2 should be addressed in the draft. I just cant see 70 continuing to play injury free. Not with his weight issues. Regarding TE1, I think the only real options will be Martellus Bennett or Dustin Keller from the NY teams. I think pairing them with Stocker would make a very good TE tandem.

So, imagine this offense:

QB1: Josh Freeman
RB1: Doug Martin
RB2: Steven Jackson
WR1: Vincent Jackson
WR2: Mike Williams
WR3: Danny Amendola
TE1: Martellus Bennett/Dustin Keller
TE2: Luke Stocker

Well, there you have it. What I believe is the blueprint for putting this team in the playoffs and possibly the SuperBowl. Of course, it could be considered a pipe-dream. However, all of the free agents I have mentioned will cost us but none will break the bank. It is all posted for conversations sake and I think this is much more productive than breaking out the torches and pitchforks for Freeman and Schiano.

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The Master Of The Metaphor, A Chaw Chewin\' Troubadour

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#1 : December 31, 2012, 04:02:50 PM

I love Brent Grimes as a player when healthy but I just couldn't realistically count on him to do anything from here on out. Jammer would be nice, though. He's been extremely durable.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

Naismith

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#2 : December 31, 2012, 04:06:33 PM

One thing that needs to be accounted for is that there has to be room for Myron Lewis. After the third or fourth CB ahead of him on the depth chart got released or traded I've done a 180 on him and now have fully embraced him as the greatest player in the world, a lifelong Buccaneer.

There\'s a very real chance the Bucs waive [Revis] before next season. At the very least, it will be a discussion worth having.

bradentonian

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#3 : December 31, 2012, 04:08:42 PM

Change the scheme


dexmonkey

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#4 : December 31, 2012, 04:09:36 PM

acquire more talent. rush the passer

boom

Rusty

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#5 : December 31, 2012, 04:10:10 PM

Hayseed. Nice work, very well thought out and can't really disagree with anything. What are yoour thoughts on Quincy Black? I personally hope the Bucs draft a hard hitting OLB so that David & Watson can pair with him. We weould be set for a decade.

                \'Every day above ground is a good day\'

Hayseed

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#6 : December 31, 2012, 04:10:32 PM

Change the scheme

Is it the scheme or the fact that we have practice squad players starting in our secondary?

They Call Me El Jefe, El Primo De Los Matadors,
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Hayseed

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#7 : December 31, 2012, 06:05:41 PM

acquire more talent. rush the passer

boom

Another pass rusher would be nice but I think a full year of AC, Bowers and GMC will do wonders for the rush. Resigning Bennett would be huge for depth but I don't think we can afford to pay starter cash for a rotational player. I think AC and Bowers are better.

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The Master Of The Metaphor, A Chaw Chewin\' Troubadour

MrGruden

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#8 : December 31, 2012, 06:17:52 PM

Chad spann can play CB. He can do everything.

Detrimental

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#9 : December 31, 2012, 06:41:14 PM

Jammer has lost a step. He is a good coverage, physical CB, can still tackle but is old. I wouldn't mind bringing him in for a 2 year deal while we groom Rhodes, Poyer, Roby, or Banks.

I'm on board with Grimes. I seen him 1v1 strap Calvin Johnson up and held him to a decent game. Grimes+Jammer+Rhodes with Barron and I hope we get Dashon Goldson too.

You can count Danny Amendola out. The Rams need every WR possible and they have a large amount of cap space. Falcons on the other hand, will let Grimes walk, I mean they had success without him so I can see us going to make that move.
: December 31, 2012, 06:43:17 PM Detrimental

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#10 : December 31, 2012, 06:53:49 PM

Nice take Hayseed. Dustin Keller is a guy I really think we need to make a run for if he gets to free agency. He is the playmaking TE Freeman needs and he still has plenty of good years keft in this league. I am on the Grimes bandwagon in FA but I am not sold on Banks. I think there are a few better options for the Bucs like Ryan, Rhodes, Poyer and Trufant.

 If the Bucs are dead set at taking a CB in the first round, I would prefer they trade back and take either Rhodes or Ryan and then use the picks they got to trade back into the first or second and aggressively grab the players they covet at RT, SLB, CB, DL or FS.

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#11 : December 31, 2012, 08:13:13 PM

Moving on from defending Freeman. He has some work to do, definitely, but he's not the real problem to our woes this season. I think every educated Buc fan out there would agree that the secondary needs to be fixed and soon!

First, lets assume that Ronde has played his last game as a Buc. I will sorely miss seeing #20 making plays all over the field. Hopefully, he rubbed off a little on Barron, Leonard Johnson and Ahmad Black.

Second, lets assume Eric Wright is history. I think this is one of the worst signings in Domink's tenure. Not quite as bad as Quincy Black, but pretty bad okay? I was worried about this one from the get go but was to euphoric to see clearly at the time due to the Jackson and Nicks signing. Wright will not be missed.

Third, as I eluded to in the first assumption, I think the only real bright spots in our secondary at the moment are Mark Barron, Leonard Johnson and Ahmad Black. The rest of them can walk the plank. Biggers, Gaitor, all of them.

So, if those three are the only ones retained, how to proceed for next season? First, we have to look hard at free agency. There are definitely some options out there. People will probably think that Mike Jenkins or Dominque Rogers-Cromartie are the best options. Wrong. At least for this team, they are not the right fits. Pending any unforeseen cuts, I think Brent Grimes and believe it or not, Quentin Jammer might be some pretty solid signings that won't break the bank. Grimes is a very good corner that is coming off a season-long achilles injury. There will be some question marks, however, he is very familiar with NFC South receivers after playing for the Falcons. Coming off the injury, and with Atlanta being in decent shape with their corners, I think he can be had for a decent price. Jammer is very intriguing. Sure, he is getting old, but he is still five years younger than Ronde. He is also a very good cover corner and solid tackler. Additionally, he is a great locker room presence and all-around good guy. Jammer is most likely out in San Diego. With his age, we can probably get a couple of good seasons out of him and perhaps move him to FS in a few years. I think he could step in and fill some of that void left behind by Ronde.

Next, we have to look at the draft. We simply must make a significant investment at the corner position. Im going with the popular selection, Jonathan Banks out of MSU. He needs to add some weight but he has all of the tools to be a top-flight, shutdown corner in this league for many years. Plus, coming from the SEC, he has faced top notch competition. I wouldn't be opposed to visiting the corner position again. Even if Banks is available, Id still be interested in drafting Desmond Trufant or David Amerson in the 2nd/3rd round.

With all of that, I think the secondary could go from historically bad to top half of the league. I would definitely be comfortable with the following lineup on opening kickoff:

CB1: Brent Grimes
CB2: Quentin Jammer
CB3: Jonathan Banks
CB4: Leonard Johnson
SS: Mark Barron
FS: Ahmad Black

Unfortunately, there is more work to be done than just rebuilding the secondary. The defensive line will need shoring up as well. However, this will be nowhere near as extensive as the work needed in the secondary. With Clayborn coming back from injury and a blossoming DeQuan Bowers (very impressed with this kid), our defensive ends could be set. McCoy has had a great season and more pressure from the ends will only help him. I think Roy Miller should be a priority for us to resign. Now, what to do with Michael Bennett? I think unless he can be had for cheap (hometown discount, whatever you want to call it), we have to let him walk. We have invested too much in d-line and I think that Clayborn and Bowers can equal if not surpass his output. Really, I think we are dealing with depth along the line. Again, the draft would probably be the best place to start.

On the offensive side of the ball, I see four things that should be addressed: RB2, WR3, TE1, and LT2. For RB2 and WR3, I look to two St Louis Rams for the answer, and they wont be cheap. If there is one guy I want badly in free agency, it's Stephen Jackson. His days as a primary ball carrier are probably done. However, this dude would be amazing for us subbing for Dougie and in the 4th quarter. He is an excellent pass blocker and receiver out of the back field and gives Josh a helluva an insurance policy on check downs. Again, he wont be cheap but damn! Can you imagine our running attack with Doug Marting and Steven Jackson running behind a healthy Carl Nicks and Davin Joesph? Whew! For WR3, Id love have Danny Amendola. Perfect fit for our offense. He has speed, sure hands and is an excellent route runner. He gives Josh options underneath. He probably won't be cheap either.

TE1 and LT2 wont be easy either. LT2 should be addressed in the draft. I just cant see 70 continuing to play injury free. Not with his weight issues. Regarding TE1, I think the only real options will be Martellus Bennett or Dustin Keller from the NY teams. I think pairing them with Stocker would make a very good TE tandem.

So, imagine this offense:

QB1: Josh Freeman
RB1: Doug Martin
RB2: Steven Jackson
WR1: Vincent Jackson
WR2: Mike Williams
WR3: Danny Amendola
TE1: Martellus Bennett/Dustin Keller
TE2: Luke Stocker

Well, there you have it. What I believe is the blueprint for putting this team in the playoffs and possibly the SuperBowl. Of course, it could be considered a pipe-dream. However, all of the free agents I have mentioned will cost us but none will break the bank. It is all posted for conversations sake and I think this is much more productive than breaking out the torches and pitchforks for Freeman and Schiano.


Yes the Bucs definitely need to add some talent at the CB position and agree that guys like Rodgers-Cromartie, Asomougha, Jenkins they are not going to have the mindset that Schiano is looking for so they may/may not be the right fit.  That why I look at the draft and take a guy who is top 2 or 3 at his position (CB).  But I really want is Dion Jordan out of Oregon...guy is a solid pass rusher, a DE that we could rotate with Clayborne, Bowers, and Bennett.  Lock in the pass rush first then the guys in the secondary have it much easier.

If we can get the other Bennett from NY that would be awesome but I doubt they part ways with him.  Reportedly, we renegotiated the contracts for Jackson and Nicks so I guess we are aiming to be players again in the FA.  Same goes for Danny Amendola in St. Louis.  Lastly, on the same note, I would love to finally have Stephen Jackson!!  I remember when he came out of Oregon State and I was praying for Gruden and Allen to get that guy...but we got got Clayton instead.  Whatever it takes to get that guy in Pewter I am all for it but I doubt he would take a #2 job.

good insight!

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#12 : December 31, 2012, 08:19:38 PM

I like how you say the real problem and then tell us all how to fix it when you obviously haven't looked at the numbers.
The wins and losses this season in no way tie in to how the pass D was performing or the talent we had at the time.

First 4 games
We had both our "starters" (Talib & Wright)
345 yards a game
1-3 record

The good stretch of 6 games
We only had one of our "starters" (Wright)
291 yards a game
5-1 record
so we lose our #1 CB and suddenly we allow less yardage and start winning, can't be talent level that is causing the losses

The bad last 6 weeks
We had neither of our "starters"
272 yards a game
1-5 record
so the yardage drops again but now we're losing, we already know it can't be talent related or weeks 1-4 would have had the best results.

Now lets look at INTs by our QB, he's only 24 and in his 1st year with this system you know
Games     1-4    Average of 1 per game              1-3 record
Games   5-10   Average of 1 every 3 games      5-1 record, communicating rather well with his wideouts)
Games 11-16   Average of 2 per game               1-6 record, Josh must be playing in a tunnel or under a bridge because "communication" went bad, I'd have thought that as the season went on his grasp on the system and communication with WRs would get better not worse.

What was that about the "real problem" again?
Yes the pass D was bad and does need fixing BUT based on the improvements they showed over the season while the talent level was dropping to the point we were starting undrafted rookies I'd say it's far from our biggest concern.
All we really need is a couple of average CBs that can stay healthy and find a pass rush, this is good because there is no chance we land 2 of the top CBs in FA and then manage to get one of the drafts top ones too.
Hell last year 2 worst pass Ds were the 2 worst in the history of the game headed into this season, their records were 15-1 & 13-3, this years 29th & 30th ranked pass Ds are both division winners while the team picking #1 in the draft ranked 12th, their issue.... no QB.
: December 31, 2012, 08:24:46 PM TBTrojan

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#13 : December 31, 2012, 09:48:56 PM

yeah...thats I like to get a solid pass rusher in the first round.  That should take some pressure off the secondary.   Couple that guy up with our new Pro Bowler McCoy and Clayborne....rotate with Bennet and Bowers, use the Redskin package with Watson and David (or whatever its called now)......that way we don't always have to stack the extra DB in the box.



hopefully, wel unless they want to but we ain't got a guy like Revis out there who can lock down a side.
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