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BucfanNC12

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#15 : January 09, 2013, 11:15:39 AM

I am getting tired of hearing we don't have pass rushers. From week one we consistently held the number one spot in rush defense. That in itself shows we have fast players who can get off blocks and make a tackles consistently. Running plays like having your star DT roll behind the other to get through the line is a fail. Having a DE 20 yards down the field covering a TE is a fail. Other fails are having CBs how rarely jam receivers is a fail and rarely changing blitz packages is also a fail. I know most fans and sports writers only look at the end results but the players are not the sole issue here. Its the playcalling and schemes.

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#16 : January 09, 2013, 11:27:03 AM

I am getting tired of hearing we don't have pass rushers. From week one we consistently held the number one spot in rush defense. That in itself shows we have fast players who can get off blocks and make a tackles consistently. Running plays like having your star DT roll behind the other to get through the line is a fail. Having a DE 20 yards down the field covering a TE is a fail. Other fails are having CBs how rarely jam receivers is a fail and rarely changing blitz packages is also a fail. I know most fans and sports writers only look at the end results but the players are not the sole issue here. Its the playcalling and schemes.

How can you think we have a pass rush when we are near the bottom of the league in sacks and their were more pass attempts against than any team in football... but yes the play calling and schemes suck the big d!

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#17 : January 09, 2013, 11:31:12 AM

I am getting tired of hearing we don't have pass rushers. From week one we consistently held the number one spot in rush defense. That in itself shows we have fast players who can get off blocks and make a tackles consistently. Running plays like having your star DT roll behind the other to get through the line is a fail. Having a DE 20 yards down the field covering a TE is a fail. Other fails are having CBs how rarely jam receivers is a fail and rarely changing blitz packages is also a fail. I know most fans and sports writers only look at the end results but the players are not the sole issue here. Its the playcalling and schemes.

How can you think we have a pass rush when we are near the bottom of the league in sacks and their were more pass attempts against than any team in football... but yes the play calling and schemes suck the big d!

In order for the players to pass rush, the plays have to be called.

Edit: Do you really believe McCoy and Bennett are bad at pass rushing?

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#18 : January 09, 2013, 11:54:23 AM

I am getting tired of hearing we don't have pass rushers. From week one we consistently held the number one spot in rush defense. That in itself shows we have fast players who can get off blocks and make a tackles consistently. Running plays like having your star DT roll behind the other to get through the line is a fail. Having a DE 20 yards down the field covering a TE is a fail. Other fails are having CBs how rarely jam receivers is a fail and rarely changing blitz packages is also a fail. I know most fans and sports writers only look at the end results but the players are not the sole issue here. Its the playcalling and schemes.

How can you think we have a pass rush when we are near the bottom of the league in sacks and their were more pass attempts against than any team in football... but yes the play calling and schemes suck the big d!

In order for the players to pass rush, the plays have to be called.

Edit: Do you really believe McCoy and Bennett are bad at pass rushing?

No I think they are above average but neither guy is a consistent 10+ sack a year guys. I would love to be wrong about that but that's just what these eyes see here.

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#19 : January 09, 2013, 12:04:17 PM

I am getting tired of hearing we don't have pass rushers. From week one we consistently held the number one spot in rush defense. That in itself shows we have fast players who can get off blocks and make a tackles consistently. Running plays like having your star DT roll behind the other to get through the line is a fail. Having a DE 20 yards down the field covering a TE is a fail. Other fails are having CBs how rarely jam receivers is a fail and rarely changing blitz packages is also a fail. I know most fans and sports writers only look at the end results but the players are not the sole issue here. Its the playcalling and schemes.

How can you think we have a pass rush when we are near the bottom of the league in sacks and their were more pass attempts against than any team in football... but yes the play calling and schemes suck the big d!

In order for the players to pass rush, the plays have to be called.

Edit: Do you really believe McCoy and Bennett are bad at pass rushing?

No I think they are above average but neither guy is a consistent 10+ sack a year guys. I would love to be wrong about that but that's just what these eyes see here.

You are living in the world of Madden if you think pass rush only equals sacks.

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#20 : January 09, 2013, 12:24:57 PM

I am getting tired of hearing we don't have pass rushers. From week one we consistently held the number one spot in rush defense. That in itself shows we have fast players who can get off blocks and make a tackles consistently. Running plays like having your star DT roll behind the other to get through the line is a fail. Having a DE 20 yards down the field covering a TE is a fail. Other fails are having CBs how rarely jam receivers is a fail and rarely changing blitz packages is also a fail. I know most fans and sports writers only look at the end results but the players are not the sole issue here. Its the playcalling and schemes.

How can you think we have a pass rush when we are near the bottom of the league in sacks and their were more pass attempts against than any team in football... but yes the play calling and schemes suck the big d!



In order for the players to pass rush, the plays have to be called.

Edit: Do you really believe McCoy and Bennett are bad at pass rushing?

No I think they are above average but neither guy is a consistent 10+ sack a year guys. I would love to be wrong about that but that's just what these eyes see here.

You are living in the world of Madden if you think pass rush only equals sacks.

QB's had all day to throw the ball on obvious passing downs. It was embarrassing! We don't have one guy who can stick his hand in the dirt and consistently get pressure.

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#21 : January 09, 2013, 12:32:48 PM

To say the fowlgoons didn't really give their best effort is BS. They were lucky they won in Tampa, and any game against a division rival is hard fought. The defense will change and adjust to the abilities of the players. Bowers and Clayborn being healthy will make a huge difference. The weak link at putting pressure on the QB is Miller. Upgrade him and you have a QBs nightmare. David and Foster will build on a year's experience together. I'll trust Schiano to get at least one veteran CB in free agency. I would hope they would go BPA in the first round, no matter what the position. DT, CB, TE, C, RT, all could use upgrades. Our starters at those positions are all better suited to be backups. I have no doubt we will have a top 10 offense in 2013. Just a guess at this point, but somewhere between 12 and 15 on the D.

For those of you who ridicule Schiano for his coaching background, the man was a HC for over a decade. He did not get fired. He made the choice to move on to bigger challenges. He left a program in much better shape than he found. Rutgers is, and always was, an academic institution. They're in a conference known more for it's football factories. The fact that he never won a conference championship has much more to do with the players' credentials than his ability to coach. His players had to be literate. You can't equate ability with the level a coach competes. Not every coach aspires to be in the NFL. I'm sure there are HS coaches who have the ability to coach at any level. Every year we see coaches get fired. When things go bad even HOF coaches get fired. For 11 years Schiano did not get fired. He built a program from scratch. Before he arrived they couldn't give tickets away. Even the student body had no interest. Sound familiar?  He didn't lead the team to a bowl game in his first year with Rutgers, and he didn't lead the Bucs to the playoffs in his first year with the Bucs. Be honest. Who expected him to? He came close so you're pissed off because it's not hand grenades or horseshoes. I expected it would be close at 9-7, but I didn't expect the injuries.

Greg Schiano is the best Buc coach I have ever seen at recognizing potential problems and eliminating them before they can become one. I am confident Freeman and the defense will be much improved in 2013.

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#22 : January 09, 2013, 12:56:36 PM

I think physically we have some talent in the back end, and that's why we could match up against Atlanta especially when their game plan was a bit more vanilla than it may usually be. The problem with the defense all year was defenders being out of position, and veteran QBs making us look bad. Some of that is coaching, and some of it is youth and instability at CB.

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#23 : January 09, 2013, 01:19:47 PM

I am getting tired of hearing we don't have pass rushers. From week one we consistently held the number one spot in rush defense. That in itself shows we have fast players who can get off blocks and make a tackles consistently. Running plays like having your star DT roll behind the other to get through the line is a fail. Having a DE 20 yards down the field covering a TE is a fail. Other fails are having CBs how rarely jam receivers is a fail and rarely changing blitz packages is also a fail. I know most fans and sports writers only look at the end results but the players are not the sole issue here. Its the playcalling and schemes.

How can you think we have a pass rush when we are near the bottom of the league in sacks and their were more pass attempts against than any team in football... but yes the play calling and schemes suck the big d!



In order for the players to pass rush, the plays have to be called.

Edit: Do you really believe McCoy and Bennett are bad at pass rushing?

No I think they are above average but neither guy is a consistent 10+ sack a year guys. I would love to be wrong about that but that's just what these eyes see here.

You are living in the world of Madden if you think pass rush only equals sacks.

QB's had all day to throw the ball on obvious passing downs. It was embarrassing! We don't have one guy who can stick his hand in the dirt and consistently get pressure.

Its also embarrassing seeing  a DE 15 yards downfield covering a TE. Did you watch the games? Most of the times the LBs didn't blitz, all three dropped back into coverage. Its like chess, if your queen is in the wrong place it can become useless. You can't blame the players and not factor the playcalling.

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#24 : January 09, 2013, 01:22:41 PM

I think physically we have some talent in the back end, and that's why we could match up against Atlanta especially when their game plan was a bit more vanilla than it may usually be. The problem with the defense all year was defenders being out of position, and veteran QBs making us look bad. Some of that is coaching, and some of it is youth and instability at CB.

That passing game was absolutely no different when Wright and Talib were starters. The youth and instability at CB doesn't hold much weight. IMO the safety position was more suspect than the CBs.

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#25 : January 09, 2013, 01:29:34 PM

I think right now the coaches think the scheme is fine. So I wouldnt expect many changes there.

They were best team in the league against the run. So they think that's fine.

I think that they think the problem is lack of talent in the secondary.

Could be. If they are doing their jobs right, they are making sure their "thought" is right. Question I would have is how would you figure out if its scheme or talent?

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#26 : January 09, 2013, 01:42:40 PM

I am getting tired of hearing we don't have pass rushers. From week one we consistently held the number one spot in rush defense. That in itself shows we have fast players who can get off blocks and make a tackles consistently. Running plays like having your star DT roll behind the other to get through the line is a fail. Having a DE 20 yards down the field covering a TE is a fail. Other fails are having CBs how rarely jam receivers is a fail and rarely changing blitz packages is also a fail. I know most fans and sports writers only look at the end results but the players are not the sole issue here. Its the playcalling and schemes.

How can you think we have a pass rush when we are near the bottom of the league in sacks and their were more pass attempts against than any team in football... but yes the play calling and schemes suck the big d!



In order for the players to pass rush, the plays have to be called.

Edit: Do you really believe McCoy and Bennett are bad at pass rushing?

No I think they are above average but neither guy is a consistent 10+ sack a year guys. I would love to be wrong about that but that's just what these eyes see here.

You are living in the world of Madden if you think pass rush only equals sacks.

QB's had all day to throw the ball on obvious passing downs. It was embarrassing! We don't have one guy who can stick his hand in the dirt and consistently get pressure.

Its also embarrassing seeing  a DE 15 yards downfield covering a TE. Did you watch the games? Most of the times the LBs didn't blitz, all three dropped back into coverage. Its like chess, if your queen is in the wrong place it can become useless. You can't blame the players and not factor the playcalling.

Hey I agree that the schemes were crap at times but I can also see that a good pass rush is something that we don't have. We didn't get pressure when Raheem was here either.

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#27 : January 09, 2013, 01:49:21 PM

To say the fowlgoons didn't really give their best effort is BS. They were lucky they won in Tampa, and any game against a division rival is hard fought. The defense will change and adjust to the abilities of the players. Bowers and Clayborn being healthy will make a huge difference. The weak link at putting pressure on the QB is Miller. Upgrade him and you have a QBs nightmare. David and Foster will build on a year's experience together. I'll trust Schiano to get at least one veteran CB in free agency. I would hope they would go BPA in the first round, no matter what the position. DT, CB, TE, C, RT, all could use upgrades. Our starters at those positions are all better suited to be backups. I have no doubt we will have a top 10 offense in 2013. Just a guess at this point, but somewhere between 12 and 15 on the D.

For those of you who ridicule Schiano for his coaching background, the man was a HC for over a decade. He did not get fired. He made the choice to move on to bigger challenges. He left a program in much better shape than he found. Rutgers is, and always was, an academic institution. They're in a conference known more for it's football factories. The fact that he never won a conference championship has much more to do with the players' credentials than his ability to coach. His players had to be literate. You can't equate ability with the level a coach competes. Not every coach aspires to be in the NFL. I'm sure there are HS coaches who have the ability to coach at any level. Every year we see coaches get fired. When things go bad even HOF coaches get fired. For 11 years Schiano did not get fired. He built a program from scratch. Before he arrived they couldn't give tickets away. Even the student body had no interest. Sound familiar?  He didn't lead the team to a bowl game in his first year with Rutgers, and he didn't lead the Bucs to the playoffs in his first year with the Bucs. Be honest. Who expected him to? He came close so you're pissed off because it's not hand grenades or horseshoes. I expected it would be close at 9-7, but I didn't expect the injuries.

Greg Schiano is the best Buc coach I have ever seen at recognizing potential problems and eliminating them before they can become one. I am confident Freeman and the defense will be much improved in 2013.

Several points.

I think that the Falcons definitely were not mentally locked in to that final game. A win or a loss affected them in no way, so to say that there wasn't sort of a "check-out" on their part, well...I disagree. Also, if you are going to say that the Falcons were "lucky" to win that game...that is complete homer BS. If you feel that way, then you probably think that every opponent that the Bucs lost to this year was "lucky" to get the win. The "lucky" card could be played in every game played in the NFL. Every single one. There are plays made in every single game in which the ball bounces to the side of one team or the other. It's part of the game.

You say that the defense will adjust to it's players. I honestly don't feel that was the case this past year. Stupid safety blitzes from 10 yards back in the secondary, or running stupid DL stunts certainly didn't play to the strengths of our personnel last season. Even with Bowers, Clayborn, GMC, Bennett and Miller's replacement...I don't think there is enough evidence to say that group would be a "QBs nightmare". There is certainly a lot of potential there, but none of those guys have proven to be absolute beasts in pass rush ability. I think a speed rusher needs to be added as well as a DT upgrade for this group to be well on the path to being a good pass rushing unit.

I agree on the positions that need to be upgraded. As far as where we will be "ranked" offensively and defensively. Are you talking about total yards rankings? Honestly, total yards rankings don't mean squat. If the Bucs finish 32nd in total offense or total defense it won't make me bat an eye. What I care about is: Did they score TDs when they were in the redzone? Did they play good defense in the redzone? Did the defense do a good job at getting off the field on 3rd down? Did they do well in converting on 3rd down? Did they play 4 qtrs. of solid football? Did they create turnovers on D? Did they limit giveaways on O? Some of the things that need to be looked for from this team are not based upon statistics. A lot of statistics are situational and not very representative of how well teams perform 100% of the time.

On the paragraph regarding Schiano, I thought it was a solid take up until the part about playoffs and fan expectations. While I agree that most fans did not expect to see the playoffs at the start of the year, when the team showed that they could play with every team and that their talent level may not be as far off from being in the playoff discussion as originally thought, of course fan expectations will evolve. How fans felt at the start of the year compared to how they felt when the team was 6-4, is irrelevant. The Bucs fell flat on their face in several crunch time positions down the stretch...that's something that during their winning streak, we did not see. Of course there is going to be disappointment when they collectively lose games when they show that they are plenty capable of winning in those situations. I also disagree that they were "close" to making the playoffs. With 3 weeks to go, they virtually stood no chance at making it. That's not close. Close is losing a tiebreaker in week 17.

I agree that Schiano is good at recognizing potential problems...that is why we are seeing PR articles and insight that suggests that Schiano might be looking to make a change at QB if things under center don't improve and solidify in 2013.
: January 09, 2013, 01:52:30 PM chace1986


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#28 : January 09, 2013, 01:59:12 PM

If this defensive scheme doesn't change then it is up to Freeman to carry this team.  Currently at this point in his career I don't think Freeman can do it.  Given Freeman has played with a bottom ranked defense ever since he has been here and he still produces wins shows he can play in this league but there are limits.  I don't think Brees/Manning can squeeze more than 8-9 wins out of this team if this defensive style persists.

The question remains is can he carry this team?  It is clear the defense will still be a weakness as it has been since ever the infamous 2008 collapse.  If Freeman is able to carry this team in 2013 despite a weak defense I would be impressed.


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#29 : January 09, 2013, 02:15:08 PM

If this defensive scheme doesn't change then it is up to Freeman to carry this team.  Currently at this point in his career I don't think Freeman can do it.  Given Freeman has played with a bottom ranked defense ever since he has been here and he still produces wins shows he can play in this league but there are limits.  I don't think Brees/Manning can squeeze more than 8-9 wins out of this team if this defensive style persists.

The question remains is can he carry this team?  It is clear the defense will still be a weakness as it has been since ever the infamous 2008 collapse.  If Freeman is able to carry this team in 2013 despite a weak defense I would be impressed.

For Freeman to carry to the team he needs to be on the field longer. Multiple three-and-outs did not do our defense a favor. Also, the Manning statement isn't accurate. He carried the Colts even when they had a terrible defense.
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