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GameTime

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#45 : January 28, 2013, 02:56:32 PM

You consider a position that sees the field for 40% of the plays a luxury?  Why?

because teams cannot utilize them.

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GameTime

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#46 : January 28, 2013, 02:58:58 PM

GT, taking a WR in round 1 doesn't preclude finding corners, TEs, safeties, etc.

i certainly agree with that, fill holes in FA, take the best in the draft.  im just having a difficult time believing this WR will be the best player on the board.  ive easily read wrong reports, but he doesnt have elite size or elite speed.  maybe he's elite.  maybe he'll be a great player for us.  i promise i wont throw a fit if we draft him.  ill be shocked, but i was shocked with barron also.

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#47 : January 28, 2013, 03:40:38 PM

GT, if your issue is the player, that's different. I personally don't have a strong view either way on the player.

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#48 : January 28, 2013, 03:43:10 PM

A 3rd receiver is not a luxury.
a 3rd WR is a luxury imo.
A 3rd WR is a luxury *when compared to certain other positions the team could look at*, imo.  Now, it would be one thing if there was a guy at #13 who was clearly and unequivocably the best player on the board.  I am very, very unconvinced that that will be the case, however.  Later on in the draft, it may be another story.  But at #13, I don't think the team will have to reach to draft someone who is not a WR.

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#49 : January 28, 2013, 03:51:14 PM

As I said if you draft Allen, which I'm not against, you need to do it for him to be the #1 receiver in 2-3 years.

 i just dont want to use a 1st to replace a hole we unnecessarily created (by not re-signing mike will)

Or we could trade him


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#50 : January 28, 2013, 05:49:28 PM

We don't know that, but why not hedge our bet.  This team is sorely lacking depth at the #3 position.  Underwood doesn't even belong in the NFL let alone on the field for 40% of any one teams snaps.  Allen can play the slot.  He can do it for the one year or 2.

I totally disagree with every you said after "2 - "... but that's why we have message boards and discussions.  We won't agree on everything.  No biggie.

i dont think we are in a position to hedge bets.  as ive said before, i really dont care about lading depth at #3WR.  i care about lacking depth at #1CB.  i care about lacking depth at #1FS.  i care about lacking depth at #1RT.  i care about lacking depth at #1TE. 

as for disagreeing about 2.  i think we can just agree that you think keenan allen is a Stud, capital S.  i just find it odd that he will be far and away BPA at #13 of the draft.

The thing is, CB can be addressed in free agency.  As I said in my earliest post, there are guys like Sean Smith, Keenan Lewis, Brent Grimes, or Cary Williams that can come in and be an instant starter/upgrade and allow us to wait until the 2nd round to get a CB.  That doesn't exist for WR's.  Jennings, Wallace, and Bowe are going to want $10-$15M to come in and be our #1.  I'd have no problem with Bowe if they took that route, but as someone mentioned earlier, neither Williams or Jackson can play the slot... Keenan Allen can, until it's time to move him outside.  You can get a FS in the 3rd, a RT and TE in the 4th.  Heck... you might be able to get someone to give you a 1st and 4th for Williams now... then even better.  Either way, you can't solve all of your problems in one off season.

Also, with respect to the 3rd WR being a luxuary, I don't think that's the case at all.  You need a legit player as your 3rd option.  I think the Bucs would run a lot more 3-WR sets (like the Giants used to), if they had one worth being targeted.  Allen is would come to this team as the third best receiver on the roster, just by showing up in shorts.  By November, he'd be our 2nd best WR... our best by the end of 2014.  His upside I'd compare to guys like Jennings, Bowe, White, (a healthy) Sidney Rice, or Brandon Marshall.  I don't think he'll be in that elite class, but I think he'll be in that tier just below.  I think he can reach that level by the start of the 2015 season.  I don't think Williams will ever be that good.  As I said before, if Williams chose to price himself too high, I'd have no problem trading him after the season.

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#51 : January 28, 2013, 05:51:16 PM

A 3rd receiver is not a luxury.
a 3rd WR is a luxury imo.
A 3rd WR is a luxury *when compared to certain other positions the team could look at*, imo.  Now, it would be one thing if there was a guy at #13 who was clearly and unequivocably the best player on the board.  I am very, very unconvinced that that will be the case, however.  Later on in the draft, it may be another story.  But at #13, I don't think the team will have to reach to draft someone who is not a WR.

Those other positions are easier to replace in free agency than WR though... not to mention the possibility that the guy we're talking about could be the best WR on our team in 15 months.

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#52 : January 28, 2013, 05:56:23 PM

I fail to see having three very good WRs as being a luxury scenario.  Players go down, and one of your two starters goes, suddenly, you throw in a guy who can barely handle the job as a #2, and the #1 sees even more pressure...it turns everything upside down unless you have depth to keep hte ball rollin.

Bucs need a GOOD #3 wr, their nickle CB has to be of #2 caliber, a backup RB who can carry the load should Martin get dinged up, a good backup QB, a RT, another RG/swing guard who can keep the chains moving...

And corners.


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#53 : January 28, 2013, 06:28:48 PM

Johnthan Banks 2 Round Scenarios updated

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#54 : January 28, 2013, 06:30:56 PM

Dom likes trading down in the first then trading up later.

He traded UP for Freeman in 2009.

He didn't move at all in 2010 and picked McCoy.

He didn't move at all in 2011 and picked Clayborn.

He moved down then up in 2012.

So 1/4 of the time he has done what you say he "likes" doing.


Well that 1/4 he traded down it worked a whole lot better then the other 3/4 + he got another 4th rounder this year so that basically tells us he will be trading down or trading up in some point of the draft and there really isn't anyone to trade up for so he is probably trading down...

Wow.

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#55 : January 29, 2013, 12:30:51 PM

To all the Wide Receiver proponents citing "what if V Jax or Williams go down" I ask this....what if Freeman goes down? Hope you guys are for drafting a mid-late round QB too.

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#56 : January 29, 2013, 01:43:19 PM

not to mention the possibility that the guy we're talking about could be the best WR on our team in 15 months.
There's the crux of the disagreement.  I'm not as wildly enthusiastic about Allen as you seem to be.  I think there will be other guys available there who will be on par with him as a prospect, at the very least.  And unless they decided to go with another DT, they could also be the best [X] on the team in 15 months.  And it isn't as if genuinely high quality OTs, for example, are easier to find in free agency than quality WRs.

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#57 : January 29, 2013, 01:52:24 PM

not to mention the possibility that the guy we're talking about could be the best WR on our team in 15 months.
There's the crux of the disagreement.  I'm not as wildly enthusiastic about Allen as you seem to be.  I think there will be other guys available there who will be on par with him as a prospect, at the very least.  And unless they decided to go with another DT, they could also be the best [X] on the team in 15 months.  And it isn't as if genuinely high quality OTs, for example, are easier to find in free agency than quality WRs.

Valid.  Not everyone agrees of future production.  I just don't think that the general scope, being - drafting a WR, should be completely ignored and written off.

Agreed on the OT's, but they're also not easily found in the draft either.  Generally, if you don't have a top 5 pick, you aren't getting a great OT.  Specifically LT's, teams trade up to get them... almost never do you see a team do that for WR's.  The only one I can remember is Julio Jones.

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#58 : January 29, 2013, 02:09:54 PM

Valid.  Not everyone agrees of future production.  I just don't think that the general scope, being - drafting a WR, should be completely ignored and written off.
Yeah, let me be clear.  My argument is not "drafting a first round wide receiver would be stupid given who we have on the team".  I'm just unconvinced that the guys who will be available at #13 will be head and shoulders above other guys who will be there.  I tend to ascibe to the tier theory of ranking draft prospects (where you lump guys into tiers rather than having a strict "this guy is #1, this guy is #2, this guy is #3, etc), and I think there will be guys there on the highest available tier who will be guys I'd rather have.  It is, of course, still a goodly while until April.  There's still plenty of time for things to get shaken up a bit.

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#59 : January 29, 2013, 02:14:28 PM

To all the Wide Receiver proponents citing "what if V Jax or Williams go down" I ask this....what if Freeman goes down? Hope you guys are for drafting a mid-late round QB too.

The difference is that if the WR is good enough, he'll play roughly 40-50% of the snaps regardless of what happens to V-Jax and Williams.
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