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rpc1978

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#45 : February 02, 2013, 04:14:51 PM

is there a part 2 to this?  i'm still waiting for the part where it makes sense for the bucs. basically the whole article is about how well he'd fit into their offense.  who would be our qb then?  was this written by a legit writer or someone from a cardinal fan site?
I guess the author felt that by saying the Bucs won't challenge for the NFC South in 2013, the author doesn't need to explain how the Bucs will fix the gaping hole in their offense.

but why wont we challenge for the south?  i dont think 2013 should be considered a rebuilding year.  in year 1 of this new regime we were very competitive all  year long.  We were 7-9 and along the way lost multiple tight games in the 4th qtr that kept us out of the playoffs.  with a healthy offensive line next year and some added vets on defense i'd  be disappointed if we weren't  a wild card team.  accordingly,  why should we just take a knee and tank next year by trading our QB? cripes, its not like we are the Chiefs or Browns. if you start over at QB then we are going 2-3 steps backwards instead of taking a step forward into the playoffs.

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#46 : February 02, 2013, 04:15:36 PM

The only problem with the article is the back and forth stance by the author.  On one hand he's saying that Freeman isn't all that good, not a franchise caliber QB, and should traded (which I do agree with).  Then on the other, he's saying that he's a perfect fit for Arizona, that he could thrive in AZ, and that he could be a long term solution (which I don't agree with - entirely).  He goes on to say that Arizona could get a steal for a 2nd and a 4th for a franchise QB.  So, how could he be a bust in on one team and a star on another?  I will say this, I think Freeman could be an adequate QB on a team with good coaching... I don't think he's going to get that in Tampa.  That being said, he'll always be replaceable.  Specifically towards the article, selling prices are based on the buyers need... not the sellers.  No one from this team has ever expressed discontent for Freeman, so to think Arizona could offer a low-ball offer for a young player with potential (the general perception... not necessarily mine), is ridiculous.   If Arizona called Dominik and asked if the Bucs were willing to trade Freeman, I'm sure he'd respond with the proverbial "well, everyone's tradeable for the right price" response.  I'm thinking the asking price from Dominik's side would start out with at least pick #7 and move from there.  I don't think Arizona would even be able to give an offer of a 2nd and 4th before Dominik said 'let's start with #7 and go from there'.

I'd have no problem trading Freeman if the Bucs could get a 1st round pick for him... truth is, I don't think they could.  Because the QB situation in this draft is what it is, I don't think it would be worth trading Freeman for anything less than said 1st round pick, I'd rather ride the season out with him to see if there's reason for an extension.  I will say this, if a team is willing to part with say, a 2nd and 4th this year and a 2nd and 3rd next year, I'd do that deal too.  Reason being, I'd find a way to get Nassib.  I think there is a real chance that Nassib could be an excellent NFL QB, sure he may not pan out, but I think his floor is approximately equal to Freeman's ceiling, so in my opinion, the Bucs would improve from Freeman right from jump street anyway.

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#47 : February 02, 2013, 04:16:30 PM

If they'd give their 2014 first round pick, I'd do it. I've already given up on freeman though. So it's an easy decision for me. We'd have to attempt to bring in an Orton or someone to make us competitive this coming season... But the plan would be Manziel or Bridgewater next year. Holding on to Freeman if you think he is not the answer, simply because there are no immediate options to replace him, is short sighted. If he's not the guy, then get something for him while you can and think ahead a few steps.

Agreed, but I get the feeling that I think Freeman is more valuable than you do. 

I think I'm just being realistic. Freeman has been unreliable and has ran very hot and cold his entire career. He's never showed up big verse a top team or for a big game. If we are ready to call it quits, some other team that is desperate for a QB will surely see him as an upgrade in a year when there really are no good options....but I don't see anybody giving us anything close to what the Broncos got for Cutler. If a team like the Jags or Cardinals or Chiefs let their desperation level get the better of them, we might be able to get a future 1st....but realistically I see that as the most we could hope to receive.

None of this really matters though, because it is all hypothetical. Freemen isn't going anywhere. Only way we trade him is if he stinks it up early and we trade him mid season before the week eight deadline. Of course in that scenario we won't get much for him.
While everything you said was true, it only takes one team to think they can correct his accuracy issues and make him a franchise QB.  Buffalo may be a good option.  They have a new coach and a 90+ year old owner who wants to win before he croaks.  They might fall in love with the idea of getting a 25 y.o. experienced, big armed QB to play in the crappy Buffalo weather.  The fact that none of the QB's in the senior bowl stood out, and Marrone's last taste of Geno Smith was underwhelming in the pinstripe bowl could all help their desire to find a QB outside of the draft.  And let's be honest, if we got a 1st round pick from Buffalo next season that may turn out to be the #1 pick, anyways.   They always suck.

rpc1978

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#48 : February 02, 2013, 04:30:15 PM

I can understand the criticism of Freeman to an extent.  I've been hard on him too at times but here is the deal:  he is a hell of a lot better than the alternative(s).  For all you guys that hate him and want to get rid of him ASAP, who is his replacement?  Give me a name that is an upgrade.  Alex Smith? Tebow? Flynn? Draft Barkley?  Gimme a break.  Freeman has his flaws but he just put up a career year and arguably the best passing year in franchise history.  Good QBs dont grow on trees guys.  We have no choice but to let Freeman play out his contract and see if he improves upon this year.  BTW, Freeman wasn't the one blowing multiple 4th qtr leads that knocked us out of the playoffs.  We have plenty of other holes to fill before QB.

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#49 : February 02, 2013, 04:36:34 PM

I can understand the criticism of Freeman to an extent.  I've been hard on him too at times but here is the deal:  he is a hell of a lot better than the alternative(s).  For all you guys that hate him and want to get rid of him ASAP, who is his replacement?  Give me a name that is an upgrade.  Alex Smith? Tebow? Flynn? Draft Barkley?  Gimme a break.  Freeman has his flaws but he just put up a career year and arguably the best passing year in franchise history.  Good QBs dont grow on trees guys.  We have no choice but to let Freeman play out his contract and see if he improves upon this year.  BTW, Freeman wasn't the one blowing multiple 4th qtr leads that knocked us out of the playoffs.  We have plenty of other holes to fill before QB.

I don't think anyone on this board really disagrees with most of what you said... I'd even go as far to say that every Bucs fan agrees with most of what you said.  That's why all of us are saying either not to trade him at all, or only if there's a great return.  No one is on board with the article's author on the 2nd and 4th.  I think there will be many (including me), who will disagree with your last 3 sentences though.

rpc1978

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#50 : February 02, 2013, 04:43:04 PM

Really?  Was Freeman playing in our secondary?  The Defense blew multiple leads that is fact not opinion.  In fact the passing defense was historically bad.  That has nothing to do with Freeman.  D-line and CB are the primary needs by far.  I dont see how there is any debate that those are out top needs but feel free to attempt to do so. ;)
: February 02, 2013, 04:47:25 PM rpc1978

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#51 : February 02, 2013, 04:46:54 PM

Really?  Was Freeman playing in our secondary?  The Defense blew multiple leads.  In fact the passing defense was historically bad.  That has nothing to do with Freeman.  D-line and CB are the primary needs by far.  I dont see how there is any debate that those are out top needs but feel free to attempt to do so. ;)

This has been addressed in each of the 3 million Freeman threads, feel free to go look them over.

rpc1978

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#52 : February 02, 2013, 04:52:00 PM

Really?  Was Freeman playing in our secondary?  The Defense blew multiple leads.  In fact the passing defense was historically bad.  That has nothing to do with Freeman.  D-line and CB are the primary needs by far.  I dont see how there is any debate that those are out top needs but feel free to attempt to do so. ;)

This has been addressed in each of the 3 million Freeman threads, feel free to go look them over.

dont need to.  typical crap.  blame everything on the QB and assume that any replacement is an upgrade.  its smart thinking like that which keep teams like Bills, Browns, Chiefs, Jags, Raiders, blowing out QBs and coaching staffs every 2-3 years continually picking in the top 10.  the grass isnt always greener.

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#53 : February 02, 2013, 04:53:10 PM

If they'd give their 2014 first round pick, I'd do it. I've already given up on freeman though. So it's an easy decision for me. We'd have to attempt to bring in an Orton or someone to make us competitive this coming season... But the plan would be Manziel or Bridgewater next year. Holding on to Freeman if you think he is not the answer, simply because there are no immediate options to replace him, is short sighted. If he's not the guy, then get something for him while you can and think ahead a few steps.

Bridgewater or Manziel....so your plan is to be the worst team in the league next season ?? No thanks.
No the plan would be to have our #1 and someone else's #1 and maneuver up to the top 3 using picks to get one of them.

What if those teams in the top 3 need QB's also , which the worst 3 teams in the league often do ? What if Manziel decides to stay in school for his junior year? What if Bridgewater tears his ACL ?   Back to Kyle Orton ?

Planning your entire personnel stategy around drafting a player who isn't even elgible for another 2 years  , and who you have no garantee of getting , sounds like the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
: February 02, 2013, 04:59:43 PM Fire Mark Dummynik

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#54 : February 02, 2013, 04:55:05 PM

Really?  Was Freeman playing in our secondary?  The Defense blew multiple leads.  In fact the passing defense was historically bad.  That has nothing to do with Freeman.  D-line and CB are the primary needs by far.  I dont see how there is any debate that those are out top needs but feel free to attempt to do so. ;)

This has been addressed in each of the 3 million Freeman threads, feel free to go look them over.

dont need to.  typical crap.  blame everything on the QB and assume that any replacement is an upgrade.  its smart thinking like that which keep teams like Bills, Browns, Chiefs, Jags, Raiders, blowing out QBs and coaching staffs every 2-3 years continually picking in the top 10.  the grass isnt always greener.

Who were the good QB's those teams you listed got rid of?

And those teams are changing QB's so often usually because they don't have a good QB.


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#55 : February 02, 2013, 05:11:52 PM

If they'd give their 2014 first round pick, I'd do it. I've already given up on freeman though. So it's an easy decision for me. We'd have to attempt to bring in an Orton or someone to make us competitive this coming season... But the plan would be Manziel or Bridgewater next year. Holding on to Freeman if you think he is not the answer, simply because there are no immediate options to replace him, is short sighted. If he's not the guy, then get something for him while you can and think ahead a few steps.

Bridgewater or Manziel....so your plan is to be the worst team in the league next season ?? No thanks.
No the plan would be to have our #1 and someone else's #1 and maneuver up to the top 3 using picks to get one of them.

What if those teams in the top 3 need QB's also , which the worst 3 teams in the league often do ? What if Manziel decides to stay in school for his junior year? What if Bridgewater tears his ACL ?   Back to Kyle Orton ?

Planning your entire personnel stategy around drafting a player who isn't even elgible for another 2 years  , and who you have no garantee of getting , sounds like the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
IF the coaching staff thinks that Freeman isn't developing or capable of picking up an offensive gameplan, then yes I would rather have them try to position themselves to improve the QB situation rather than hope blindly that everything works out.  It's not planning a strategy on drafting a particular player, it's cutting ties with a player that you believe doesn't have the ability to be the QB you want, and getting maximum value for that player. 

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#56 : February 02, 2013, 05:24:07 PM

If they'd give their 2014 first round pick, I'd do it. I've already given up on freeman though. So it's an easy decision for me. We'd have to attempt to bring in an Orton or someone to make us competitive this coming season... But the plan would be Manziel or Bridgewater next year. Holding on to Freeman if you think he is not the answer, simply because there are no immediate options to replace him, is short sighted. If he's not the guy, then get something for him while you can and think ahead a few steps.

Bridgewater or Manziel....so your plan is to be the worst team in the league next season ?? No thanks.
No the plan would be to have our #1 and someone else's #1 and maneuver up to the top 3 using picks to get one of them.

What if those teams in the top 3 need QB's also , which the worst 3 teams in the league often do ? What if Manziel decides to stay in school for his junior year? What if Bridgewater tears his ACL ?   Back to Kyle Orton ?

Planning your entire personnel stategy around drafting a player who isn't even elgible for another 2 years  , and who you have no garantee of getting , sounds like the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
IF the coaching staff thinks that Freeman isn't developing or capable of picking up an offensive gameplan, then yes I would rather have them try to position themselves to improve the QB situation rather than hope blindly that everything works out.  It's not planning a strategy on drafting a particular player, it's cutting ties with a player that you believe doesn't have the ability to be the QB you want, and getting maximum value for that player.

You can't plan on a strategy for drafting a player that far into the future though. Too many things can happen and too many variables remain to garantee you will even be able to target them.

If there's a QB you think makes us better in THIS draft , fine. If there's a free agent QB you think makes us better , fine.
If not , stick with the player who gives us the best chance to win now . Freeman.

I'm pretty sure the coaching staff doesn't believe there is no hope for Freeman anyways....

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

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#57 : February 02, 2013, 11:01:41 PM

If they'd give their 2014 first round pick, I'd do it. I've already given up on freeman though. So it's an easy decision for me. We'd have to attempt to bring in an Orton or someone to make us competitive this coming season... But the plan would be Manziel or Bridgewater next year. Holding on to Freeman if you think he is not the answer, simply because there are no immediate options to replace him, is short sighted. If he's not the guy, then get something for him while you can and think ahead a few steps.

Bridgewater or Manziel....so your plan is to be the worst team in the league next season ?? No thanks.
No the plan would be to have our #1 and someone else's #1 and maneuver up to the top 3 using picks to get one of them.




Nothing is guaranteed though, the first several picks in the draft,  could very well belong to a QB starved team.

The only sure thing is.....0-16.


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#58 : February 03, 2013, 11:59:16 AM

Planning your entire personnel stategy around drafting a player who isn't even elgible for another 2 years  , and who you have no garantee of getting , sounds like the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

but those guys are gonna be eligible next year.  plus yucs has a list of 6 QB's that have 1st round potential next year, not just 2.

 freeman hasnt proven to be a QB that wants the team on his back.  so why not build a better team?  like harbaugh showed with kaep, sometimes you can take risks and still make the right decision.


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#59 : February 03, 2013, 12:32:52 PM

Sticking with Freeman and hoping he suddenly becomes a different QB than he has been for the last four years, is just as risky as trading him and hoping we can draft a good QB early in 2014. I guess some think the odds are higher that Freeman will suddenly make that leap, but I just don't see it that way. I'd rather have the two 1st round picks next year, which means getting through 2013 with a stop gap....but in all honesty, a stop gap like Orton would probably get us just as many wins as Freeman would.

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