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#60 : February 14, 2013, 09:14:30 PM

I can't remember the details, but I believe that veteran players with at least so many years of experience counted less against the cap.  Guys like Garner, Steussie, Brown fell into that category.   They also knew his system.   It didn't work out, but it was a plan to try and remain contending with no cap room, few premium draft picks, and an aging team.

Garner got more guaranteed $$ than Jones so the 'no cap room' excuse doesn't fly in this instance. And IIRC, only vets on a one yr minimum deal got a break against the cap. Bottom line is the guy pocketed $4 mil for 111 yrds rushing.... and got run down from behind by Sapp in the process.

I didn't make any excuses, Jones got I believe 500K less guaranteed.  Not a big deal.    5 other coaches/gms let the guy walk for a reason, but like I said that fact screws up the Gruden ranting

What the facts dispute is this notion that we signed Garner due to having no $$ to spend. The facts also reinforce that Jones was the better player..... especially at that stage of their careers. $4 mil for 111 yds was a terrible signing, especially fresh off of knee surgery and nothing you type can dispute that.

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 I thought Lovie said he wanted quickness & speed, even at the QB position?

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#61 : February 15, 2013, 12:51:51 AM

Anyone who doesn't say Alvin Harper either isn't a "real" Buc fan or hasn't been a Buc fan for long
Well Harper is the most obvious. I didnt think he would be a good no.1. I didn't like him in dallas and he was a waste of space here. But I hated the signing of Charlie Garner it just drives me insane. It was like gru wanted to get his boy paid or something.  I just dont get it, I didnt get it then and i still dont get it now. If we had signed the younger version of Garner that would have been fine, but he was hurt and it was obvious. It was a complete and utter WASTE. I dont know how to post links so im going to paste part of this old article below. It's from si.com.

The signing of Garner addresses an immediate need for the Bucs, who lost tailback Thomas Jones to the Chicago Bears on the first day of free agency. It is believed that the Bucs also were interested in Duce Staley of the Philadelphia Eagles.

((((((Garner was bothered by knee and back injuries last season and was limited to 553 rushing yards)))))). He also has played for Philadelphia and San Francisco and has rushed for 6,986 yards and 39 touchdowns while catching 410 passes for 3,649 yards and 12 scores.

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#62 : February 15, 2013, 02:38:48 AM

Anyone who doesn't say Alvin Harper either isn't a "real" Buc fan or hasn't been a Buc fan for long
Well Harper is the most obvious. I didnt think he would be a good no.1. I didn't like him in dallas and he was a waste of space here. But I hated the signing of Charlie Garner it just drives me insane. It was like gru wanted to get his boy paid or something.  I just dont get it, I didnt get it then and i still dont get it now. If we had signed the younger version of Garner that would have been fine, but he was hurt and it was obvious. It was a complete and utter WASTE. I dont know how to post links so im going to paste part of this old article below. It's from si.com.

The signing of Garner addresses an immediate need for the Bucs, who lost tailback Thomas Jones to the Chicago Bears on the first day of free agency. It is believed that the Bucs also were interested in Duce Staley of the Philadelphia Eagles.

((((((Garner was bothered by knee and back injuries last season and was limited to 553 rushing yards)))))). He also has played for Philadelphia and San Francisco and has rushed for 6,986 yards and 39 touchdowns while catching 410 passes for 3,649 yards and 12 scores.


I'm glad someone other than me can see just how bad this move was. We signed the guy, gave him an azz load of money, and he wasn't even healthy at the time.

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 I thought Lovie said he wanted quickness & speed, even at the QB position?

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#63 : February 15, 2013, 08:30:32 AM

I can't remember the details, but I believe that veteran players with at least so many years of experience counted less against the cap.  Guys like Garner, Steussie, Brown fell into that category.   They also knew his system.   It didn't work out, but it was a plan to try and remain contending with no cap room, few premium draft picks, and an aging team.

Garner got more guaranteed $$ than Jones so the 'no cap room' excuse doesn't fly in this instance. And IIRC, only vets on a one yr minimum deal got a break against the cap. Bottom line is the guy pocketed $4 mil for 111 yrds rushing.... and got run down from behind by Sapp in the process.

I didn't make any excuses, Jones got I believe 500K less guaranteed.  Not a big deal.    5 other coaches/gms let the guy walk for a reason, but like I said that fact screws up the Gruden ranting
4 of the 5 other coaches and 5 of the 5 other GM's have since been fired, too.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#64 : February 15, 2013, 08:52:38 PM

Alas if gruden had kept journeyman jones he would still be the Buc's head coach

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#65 : February 15, 2013, 09:20:45 PM

I can't remember the details, but I believe that veteran players with at least so many years of experience counted less against the cap.  Guys like Garner, Steussie, Brown fell into that category.   They also knew his system.   It didn't work out, but it was a plan to try and remain contending with no cap room, few premium draft picks, and an aging team.

Garner got more guaranteed $$ than Jones so the 'no cap room' excuse doesn't fly in this instance. And IIRC, only vets on a one yr minimum deal got a break against the cap. Bottom line is the guy pocketed $4 mil for 111 yrds rushing.... and got run down from behind by Sapp in the process.

I didn't make any excuses, Jones got I believe 500K less guaranteed.  Not a big deal.    5 other coaches/gms let the guy walk for a reason, but like I said that fact screws up the Gruden ranting
4 of the 5 other coaches and 5 of the 5 other GM's have since been fired, too.
Hate will get pissy if you find a way not to blame everything he feels is bad on Gruden.  Just a word to the wise - don't blame Jones...

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

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#66 : February 15, 2013, 09:41:04 PM

Not true. I mean EVERYONE knows he had no say in the players that were chosen under his tenure.....that he was forced to bow down to his hand-picked GM.

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 I thought Lovie said he wanted quickness & speed, even at the QB position?

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#67 : February 15, 2013, 10:00:44 PM

Alas if gruden had kept journeyman jones he would still be the Buc's head coach




I don't know about that.


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#68 : February 16, 2013, 07:44:36 AM

I can't remember the details, but I believe that veteran players with at least so many years of experience counted less against the cap.  Guys like Garner, Steussie, Brown fell into that category.   They also knew his system.   It didn't work out, but it was a plan to try and remain contending with no cap room, few premium draft picks, and an aging team.

Garner got more guaranteed $$ than Jones so the 'no cap room' excuse doesn't fly in this instance. And IIRC, only vets on a one yr minimum deal got a break against the cap. Bottom line is the guy pocketed $4 mil for 111 yrds rushing.... and got run down from behind by Sapp in the process.

I didn't make any excuses, Jones got I believe 500K less guaranteed.  Not a big deal.    5 other coaches/gms let the guy walk for a reason, but like I said that fact screws up the Gruden ranting
4 of the 5 other coaches and 5 of the 5 other GM's have since been fired, too.

If memory serves , didn't Thomas Jones sign at like 12:01 A.M. of free agency ?? I don't think he even wanted to stay here.

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

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#69 : February 18, 2013, 03:08:11 AM

Alvin Harper 65 receptions, 922 yds, 3 tds. 4 yrs, $10 mil
Charlie Garner 30 carries, 111 yds,  0 tds. 6 yrs, $20 mil - $4 mil guaranteed


UGH!!!!

What a stupid post.   Are you really that ignorant?    Why don't you compare Lee Roy Selmon's $300,000 a year salary to any of today's defensive linemen making over 10 million a year?

You can't compare salaries of guys 10 years apart.   Harper was the top paid free agent the year he was signed.   Garner wasn't even close to the highest paid free agent the year he was signed.

Worst ever was Alvin Harper and it's not even close.   He was a huge distraction and cost the Bucs games with his attitude and the Bucs trying to force the ball to him when he couldn't get open and couldn't catch.

1) Alvin Harper - the guy was not just a bad player, he was a cancer
2) Derrick Ward -  the main problem with signing this loser was he took carries away from a pretty decent back - Ernest Graham
3) Michael Clayton - horrible re-signing
4) Mike Nugent - dude didn't even make the team
5) Todd Steussie - his career was over by the time they signed him
6) Charlie Garner - Would have been the perfect back for Gruden's system.  but his knee was done. 
7) Bert Emmanuel - good WR until he got hurt.  But due to injury, bad signing.
8. Quincy Black - way overpaid
9) Jeremy Trueblood - way overpaid
10)  Derrick Deese - The guy played ok, but i thought Oben was better.  Downgrade.

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#70 : February 18, 2013, 03:10:54 AM

Garner played 4 or 5 games before he tore up his ACL and that finished his career. He got good money but not crazy money. He had a fairly productive career until that point and I wasn't too upset about it.

Garner was fresh off of knee surgery when we signed him.

John Lynch was fresh off neck surgery when the Broncos signed him...

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#71 : February 18, 2013, 11:24:55 AM

Omg PR, do something about Java already.

Naismith was right about Revis. Everyone else is a dummy.

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#72 : February 18, 2013, 09:20:09 PM

Alvin Harper 65 receptions, 922 yds, 3 tds. 4 yrs, $10 mil
Charlie Garner 30 carries, 111 yds,  0 tds. 6 yrs, $20 mil - $4 mil guaranteed


UGH!!!!

What a stupid post.   Are you really that ignorant?    Why don't you compare Lee Roy Selmon's $300,000 a year salary to any of today's defensive linemen making over 10 million a year?

You can't compare salaries of guys 10 years apart.   Harper was the top paid free agent the year he was signed.   Garner wasn't even close to the highest paid free agent the year he was signed.

Worst ever was Alvin Harper and it's not even close.   He was a huge distraction and cost the Bucs games with his attitude and the Bucs trying to force the ball to him when he couldn't get open and couldn't catch.

1) Alvin Harper - the guy was not just a bad player, he was a cancer
2) Derrick Ward -  the main problem with signing this loser was he took carries away from a pretty decent back - Ernest Graham
3) Michael Clayton - horrible re-signing
4) Mike Nugent - dude didn't even make the team
5) Todd Steussie - his career was over by the time they signed him
6) Charlie Garner - Would have been the perfect back for Gruden's system.  but his knee was done. 
7) Bert Emmanuel - good WR until he got hurt.  But due to injury, bad signing.
8. Quincy Black - way overpaid
9) Jeremy Trueblood - way overpaid
10)  Derrick Deese - The guy played ok, but i thought Oben was better.  Downgrade.







Well it was a nice break from this dude, guess he is back. 


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#73 : February 18, 2013, 09:23:49 PM

He never left. Dude just can't take his 'muting' like a man.

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 I thought Lovie said he wanted quickness & speed, even at the QB position?

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#74 : February 19, 2013, 01:28:08 AM

4) Mike Nugent - dude didn't even make the team


Err yes he did.

http://www.bucpower.com/mike-nugent.html

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