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JDouble

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#90 : March 27, 2013, 11:37:00 AM

Is someone with subpar talent a leader or a cheerleader? All the rah-rah and talk doesnt mean much if you cant back it up or propell others around you to raise their game. Ill giv you the questionable play calling though.

hes not subpar, just not good enough to overcome the other things. Manuel isnt an andrew luck type that can take lesser players and elevate their play. he needs talented guys to succeed. his inconsistency was maddening and he made bad decisions when his protection broke down, which it often did because the FSU OL sucks really bad.

he showed in some games the ability to lead the team back in the face of a loss. the 09 bowl game against west virginia he led us back and beat them when we should have lost. he also led a great comeback against notre dame in 2011 when the first half was a disaster and he made big time plays to extend drives and score. his problem is he shows flashes of brilliance and then flashes of WTF moments. not a 1st round grade IMO


Pretty much sums it up....I bet a team will take him in the first round though.


ktownbuc47

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#91 : March 27, 2013, 11:43:02 AM

Are we really better off with Revis, or the 5 or 6 guys we can sign to fill holes plus the high draft picks we will have to use to get him?

Why do you necessarily have to be wrong just because a few million people think you are?

Champ29

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#92 : March 27, 2013, 11:49:17 AM

revis is a top notch shutdown corner... so yes, we would be better with him imo


dexmonkey

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#93 : March 27, 2013, 12:23:21 PM

Are we really better off with Revis, or the 5 or 6 guys we can sign to fill holes plus the high draft picks we will have to use to get him?

it depends. if one of the guys we draft turns into a shutdown corner and we get another player to be a starter then the draft option is better

if you are looking for an established impact player then revis is your answer

its a tough call and im glad im not making it. id take revis for 2 2s but not a 1 and a 2 this year

JDouble

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#94 : March 27, 2013, 12:24:31 PM

Are we really better off with Revis, or the 5 or 6 guys we can sign to fill holes plus the high draft picks we will have to use to get him?


http://www.pewterreport.com/Boards/index.php/topic,1303161.4695/topicseen.html


Booker Reese

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#95 : March 27, 2013, 01:31:14 PM

JD, I think this is a well-plotted out post, but I have some big disagreements with specific things, here:


 It is value signing time. That's right. But it will be value signing time tomorrow, right up until the draft, and after the draft. And they pretty much get cheaper by the day. I'd also point out that often, more players become available after the draft and early June.

We don't even know if Clayborn will be 100% or if Bowers can start for an entire season and stay healthy. Correct, "WE" don't know that. But we also don't have access to a medical staff that works with athletes and/or direct knowledge of Clayborn's progress. The Bucs do. With Bowers, I think they have as good an idea as you can about any athlete in a violent sport where injuries are common. Bowers didn't start 16 games as a rookie, but he played in them without incident. 

Everyone knows we have next to nothing at CB...Yet, other than Revis trade rumors, we haven't shown any interest in any cornerbacks. I don't believe we have had a single corner back visit.   This is not news to the coach and the GM. I think the CB issue is pretty obvious at this point: a) we didn't rate the corners sufficiently high to pursue any of them at the prices they were signed for (or perhaps any price); b) we are focused on Revis at some price; c) if not Revis, then it's some combo of existing players, rookies, or stop-gap vets. This might have been a mystery in week 1 or 2 in FA, but it's blindingly obvious now. Not sure why there is any confusion about it. I understand that people may not like it, or think it's a terrible plan, but it's not a mystery. Also, last time I checked just one of the 4 guys we've signed in FA visited us prior to signing. This is 2013 and phones work pretty well.

Michael Smith is nothing. He has done zero. Other than running fast in a straight line, the guy hasn't shown an ounce of potential to be anything for us. That leaves DJ Ware. Ware is nothing special, but he is an ok role player. It wouldn't be hard to upgrade, but at this point he is all we have behind Martin. We have shown no interest in any free agent running backs. Meanwhile Ahmad Bradshaw, Cedric Benson, Rashad Jennings, LaRod Stephens-Howling, Jackie Battle, Peyton Hillis, and Deji Karim are all still available for next to nothing. Are we waiting till after the draft so we can pick up another Kregg Lumpkin at the last minute? I agree that Michael Smith did next to nothing LAST YEAR. But your anti-Michael Smith stuff started the minute he was drafted, and has been unrelenting.  I don't know if he's got potential or not going forward. I don't think we've seen close to enough to know either way. I do know that the Bucs have seen 1,000 times more than we have. It doesn't mean they can't make a mistake, but they are significantly better informed than we are, and I think that matters in cases like this. And did you really just include Deji Karim and his career 98 carries at a 3.0 per carry clip? I have definite concerns about the roster, but this one is way down the list.

  We currently have no real Sam linebacker....Larry Grant and Victor Butler would both be instant starters at Sam....but we have no interest. There are also other solid 4-3 linebackers out there. Justin Durant, Daryl Smith, Michael Boley, Gary Guyton, Brandon Siler...all are young, cheap, and would be upgrades over guys like Goode, Holland, and Cutrera.....but no interest. I happen to think Victor Butler would be an interesting nickle pass-rusher, but I think saying he'd be "an instant starter" at SAM is a stretch, considering he's never actually been a SAM in 4-3. Daryl Smith, Michael Boley are not "young" - they are both 30. Siler's coming off of a torn achilles, Gutyon managed to get cut by 3 different teams last year.

You also mention later the "chicken/egg" issue with SAM, but I don't think it's all that murky - so far, the Bucs actions speak volumes - it's not a big part of this D. Maybe a special player will drop to us who is simply too good to pass up in the draft and we change what we do, but otherwise, consider it one of the least important positions on this defense.

I do know that our o-line depth is awful. There has to be some upgrades, or at least better competition available....but no interest. I don't agree with this at all. We started at least 2 backups last year for big chunks of the season en route to a monster rookie season for Doug Martin, and for the most part, Freeman had sufficient time. First 3 weeks of FA is not where you find OL depth.


Dolorous Jason

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#96 : March 27, 2013, 04:06:27 PM

Is someone with subpar talent a leader or a cheerleader? All the rah-rah and talk doesnt mean much if you cant back it up or propell others around you to raise their game. Ill giv you the questionable play calling though.

hes not subpar, just not good enough to overcome the other things. Manuel isnt an andrew luck type that can take lesser players and elevate their play. he needs talented guys to succeed.

Plenty of talent around him at FSU ....more than most college QB's had ...

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           
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