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The Anomaly

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#30 : April 09, 2013, 11:20:44 PM

If ATL actually had something to play for we finish 6-10.  This team was closer to bad than good.  Second worst passing defense of all-time.  I should probably take a peek and see what coaches are on that list.  I bet they all suck.  Wager?

edit:  I forgot about GB and the Pats from 2 years ago.  My name fits there. 
: April 09, 2013, 11:26:44 PM The Anomaly

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#31 : April 09, 2013, 11:26:35 PM

We need Dline, CBs, a RT and perhaps a LB.  A backup running back who runs effectively would be nice as well.  I don't think Leonard has proven that in his time in the NFL.  With out the DLine and CBs we are bare if anything happens to starting Dline, and the dbackfield investment will not pay off as it should.

i disagree on the DL.  we have bowers and clayborn.  should be a pretty solid starting group.  we need one guy to step up from neshiam, morgan and selvie.
we do need one more body at NT...shouldnt be hard to find.
we have dotson, and he played adequate last season.  we do need a backup swing tackle.
backup RB's are a dime a dozen.   between blount, leonard, and smith we should have that covered.

look around the league...teams dont have all pro's for depth.  they have warm bodies.  and we still have the draft.

Bowers has shown nothing. The best pass rushing teams have multiple guys who can come after the passer. DLmen are some of the most rotated players. We have a very poor rotation. Period. Pass rushing DE need is right up there with the CB need.


Until preseason, you stay classy Red Board.

dbucfan

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#32 : April 09, 2013, 11:28:20 PM

We need Dline, CBs, a RT and perhaps a LB.  A backup running back who runs effectively would be nice as well.  I don't think Leonard has proven that in his time in the NFL.  With out the DLine and CBs we are bare if anything happens to starting Dline, and the dbackfield investment will not pay off as it should.

i disagree on the DL.  we have bowers and clayborn.  should be a pretty solid starting group.  we need one guy to step up from neshiam, morgan and selvie.
we do need one more body at NT...shouldnt be hard to find.
we have dotson, and he played adequate last season.  we do need a backup swing tackle.
backup RB's are a dime a dozen.   between blount, leonard, and smith we should have that covered.

look around the league...teams dont have all pro's for depth.  they have warm bodies.  and we still have the draft.
I dont' see Neshiam, Morgan or Selvie as starter quality - the third DE should be there or very close.  Dotson was passable, if you are going to run to the right you need a run blocking RT, he is best at Pass Pro, and about average at that.  Spend the dime, we need one unless Smith is that.  Don't expect Blount to be here, and Leonard's skill is receiving much more than running with the ball. 

And i agree, everyone as some shortcomings.  We didn't touch CB, and DE is in the top 3-4 of important positions.  Not good to be hurting there. 

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

GameTime

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#33 : April 10, 2013, 10:16:30 AM

If ATL actually had something to play for we finish 6-10.  This team was closer to bad than good.  Second worst passing defense of all-time.  I should probably take a peek and see what coaches are on that list.  I bet they all suck.  Wager?

again with this.  what did the Bucs have to play for?  when ATL really tried, they beat the Bucs by a single point.  yet its soooooooo unbelieveable that the Bucs were able to beat the same team a couple weeks later.

this team was closer to good than bad.  yes, very bad passing defense.  what about the run defense?  what about the run offense?  what about the passing offense?  what about ST's?

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"

GameTime

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#34 : April 10, 2013, 10:20:50 AM

Bowers has shown nothing. The best pass rushing teams have multiple guys who can come after the passer. DLmen are some of the most rotated players. We have a very poor rotation. Period. Pass rushing DE need is right up there with the CB need.
ansah has shown nothing, neither has djordan, werner and the rest.  the best pass rushing teams are 3-4 teams.  who are the best pass rushing 4-3 teams?

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"

GameTime

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#35 : April 10, 2013, 10:24:37 AM

I dont' see Neshiam, Morgan or Selvie as starter quality - the third DE should be there or very close.  Dotson was passable, if you are going to run to the right you need a run blocking RT, he is best at Pass Pro, and about average at that.  Spend the dime, we need one unless Smith is that.  Don't expect Blount to be here, and Leonard's skill is receiving much more than running with the ball. 

And i agree, everyone as some shortcomings.  We didn't touch CB, and DE is in the top 3-4 of important positions.  Not good to be hurting there.

who are the 4-3 teams who have that quality 3rd DE?  i realize there are some, i just dont know who they are.  as for needing a run blocking RT, would i assume you also need a run blocking RG?  then of course we'd need the same quality on the left side?  doesnt seem realistic to me.  we ran pretty good last season, right?

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Feel Real Good

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#36 : April 10, 2013, 10:37:31 AM

who are the 4-3 teams who have that quality 3rd DE?  i realize there are some, i just dont know who they are. 
This isn't really one of my hot button issues, but for arguments sake, on opening day last season, the Bucs' 3rd DE was a player at one time viewed as a top 5 pick with the athletic potential to be a 10-15 sack per year pass rusher. As of today, the Bucs' 3rd DE is a player who was cut by the team that drafted him after one year and in 2012 was one of the least productive pass rushers in the NFL.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#37 : April 10, 2013, 10:39:55 AM

Well their window is now opening. All of their guys have been in the league at least a couple seasons with the exeption of last years draft class. The Revis move makes sense because this is now their time to start making the playoffs consistently. The plan for every team is to win a championship. Maybe some guys plan look different than others but its still the same goal. They are just trying to improve their chances. This FA period and this draft doesnt seem to really improve our chances all that much. Adding guys like Revis and Goldson to our secondary does. They were great at stopping the run. Pretty good passing and run game. Now if they clean up that secondary its got a look of a playoff team for sure. Also dont forget the experience that the coaching staff now has after their first year. We saw them get better at the end of the season in the win over ATL. They seemed like they learned from their mistakes. If some other guys *cough Freeman can learn from their mistakes and guys stay healthy. This could be a great team. Keyword could. We will have to see what happens with the rest of the offseason.

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#38 : April 10, 2013, 10:44:36 AM

who are the 4-3 teams who have that quality 3rd DE?  i realize there are some, i just dont know who they are. 
This isn't really one of my hot button issues, but for arguments sake, on opening day last season, the Bucs' 3rd DE was a player at one time viewed as a top 5 pick with the athletic potential to be a 10-15 sack per year pass rusher. As of today, the Bucs' 3rd DE is a player who was cut by the team that drafted him after one year and in 2012 was one of the least productive pass rushers in the NFL.

right, and i can see where that scares some fans.   

but for reference sake, who are these 4-3 teams we should aspire to be?

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"

VinBucFan

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#39 : April 10, 2013, 10:52:11 AM

Bowers has shown nothing. The best pass rushing teams have multiple guys who can come after the passer. DLmen are some of the most rotated players. We have a very poor rotation. Period. Pass rushing DE need is right up there with the CB need.
ansah has shown nothing, neither has djordan, werner and the rest.  the best pass rushing teams are 3-4 teams.  who are the best pass rushing 4-3 teams?


Bowers was recovering from an Achilles last year and yet I read he had a higher sack/snap ratio than Bennett. Not sure how anyone can say the guy has shown "nothing". He's been out but when he is in you can tell he's a player.

Same thing by the way with Clayborn. He had 7.5 sacks, most WITHOUT McCoy playing. Some say "he had no sacks in the 3 games he played," but he only had 1 (I think) in the first 3 games of his 7.5 sack season, which again was without GMC

No doubt we need depth, every team does BUT it borders on ridiculous to not acknowledge that a D-line with Bowers, Clayborn and GMC playing is VASTLY superior to the D-line that end the season last year


VinBucFan

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#40 : April 10, 2013, 10:58:36 AM

who are the 4-3 teams who have that quality 3rd DE?  i realize there are some, i just dont know who they are. 
This isn't really one of my hot button issues, but for arguments sake, on opening day last season, the Bucs' 3rd DE was a player at one time viewed as a top 5 pick with the athletic potential to be a 10-15 sack per year pass rusher. As of today, the Bucs' 3rd DE is a player who was cut by the team that drafted him after one year and in 2012 was one of the least productive pass rushers in the NFL.

right, and i can see where that scares some fans.   

but for reference sake, who are these 4-3 teams we should aspire to be?

Bowers would have been the starter not Bennett. Bennett - an UFA - was the depth. He piled up some sacks (even if FRG's bible says it was against mediocre talent) BUT he was playing next to GMC ...and in terms of sacks the INJURED Bennett that finished the season was not the same as the healthier one that piled up all thise sacks (see 31 teams passing on him this offseason )

If the Bucs just draft a decent DE they will be on the same footing or better than last year ... And that is not even considering they may draft a premium DE or DT

Under the current CBA teams better have some of their production coming from DRAFT PICKS
: April 10, 2013, 11:03:02 AM VinBucFan


BucBalla85

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#41 : April 10, 2013, 11:02:02 AM

Bowers has shown nothing. The best pass rushing teams have multiple guys who can come after the passer. DLmen are some of the most rotated players. We have a very poor rotation. Period. Pass rushing DE need is right up there with the CB need.
ansah has shown nothing, neither has djordan, werner and the rest.  the best pass rushing teams are 3-4 teams.  who are the best pass rushing 4-3 teams?


Bowers was recovering from an Achilles last year and yet I read he had a higher sack/snap ratio than Bennett. Not sure how anyone can say the guy has shown "nothing". He's been out but when he is in you can tell he's a player.

Same thing by the way with Clayborn. He had 7.5 sacks, most WITHOUT McCoy playing. Some say "he had no sacks in the 3 games he played," but he only had 1 (I think) in the first 3 games of his 7.5 sack season, which again was without GMC

No doubt we need depth, every team does BUT it borders on ridiculous to not acknowledge that a D-line with Bowers, Clayborn and GMC playing is VASTLY superior to the D-line that end the season last year

That is assuming those guys stay healthy for a full season.

VinBucFan

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#42 : April 10, 2013, 11:05:12 AM

Bowers has shown nothing. The best pass rushing teams have multiple guys who can come after the passer. DLmen are some of the most rotated players. We have a very poor rotation. Period. Pass rushing DE need is right up there with the CB need.
ansah has shown nothing, neither has djordan, werner and the rest.  the best pass rushing teams are 3-4 teams.  who are the best pass rushing 4-3 teams?


Bowers was recovering from an Achilles last year and yet I read he had a higher sack/snap ratio than Bennett. Not sure how anyone can say the guy has shown "nothing". He's been out but when he is in you can tell he's a player.

Same thing by the way with Clayborn. He had 7.5 sacks, most WITHOUT McCoy playing. Some say "he had no sacks in the 3 games he played," but he only had 1 (I think) in the first 3 games of his 7.5 sack season, which again was without GMC

No doubt we need depth, every team does BUT it borders on ridiculous to not acknowledge that a D-line with Bowers, Clayborn and GMC playing is VASTLY superior to the D-line that end the season last year

That is assuming those guys stay healthy for a full season.

BUT .. That is the same assumption you make if you fire all those guys and bring on 3 new Free Agents. Every team needs depth but the world is not coming to an end because we let an injured Bennett go or have not YET added a D lineman


BucBalla85

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#43 : April 10, 2013, 11:07:19 AM

Bowers has shown nothing. The best pass rushing teams have multiple guys who can come after the passer. DLmen are some of the most rotated players. We have a very poor rotation. Period. Pass rushing DE need is right up there with the CB need.
ansah has shown nothing, neither has djordan, werner and the rest.  the best pass rushing teams are 3-4 teams.  who are the best pass rushing 4-3 teams?


Bowers was recovering from an Achilles last year and yet I read he had a higher sack/snap ratio than Bennett. Not sure how anyone can say the guy has shown "nothing". He's been out but when he is in you can tell he's a player.

Same thing by the way with Clayborn. He had 7.5 sacks, most WITHOUT McCoy playing. Some say "he had no sacks in the 3 games he played," but he only had 1 (I think) in the first 3 games of his 7.5 sack season, which again was without GMC

No doubt we need depth, every team does BUT it borders on ridiculous to not acknowledge that a D-line with Bowers, Clayborn and GMC playing is VASTLY superior to the D-line that end the season last year

That is assuming those guys stay healthy for a full season.

BUT .. That is the same assumption you make if you fire all those guys and bring on 3 new Free Agents. Every team needs depth but the world is not coming to an end because we let an injured Bennett go or have not YET added a D lineman

No its not. I just hope those guys stay healthy. They havent been able to. Im worried that we dont have some kind of insurance if they arent able to. If not were back to what we had last year and maybe worse. Were taking a little risk by not adding anybody after Bennett left. Lets hope they turn out to be the guys we drafted and not on IR.

VinBucFan

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#44 : April 10, 2013, 11:55:53 AM

Bowers has shown nothing. The best pass rushing teams have multiple guys who can come after the passer. DLmen are some of the most rotated players. We have a very poor rotation. Period. Pass rushing DE need is right up there with the CB need.
ansah has shown nothing, neither has djordan, werner and the rest.  the best pass rushing teams are 3-4 teams.  who are the best pass rushing 4-3 teams?


Bowers was recovering from an Achilles last year and yet I read he had a higher sack/snap ratio than Bennett. Not sure how anyone can say the guy has shown "nothing". He's been out but when he is in you can tell he's a player.

Same thing by the way with Clayborn. He had 7.5 sacks, most WITHOUT McCoy playing. Some say "he had no sacks in the 3 games he played," but he only had 1 (I think) in the first 3 games of his 7.5 sack season, which again was without GMC

No doubt we need depth, every team does BUT it borders on ridiculous to not acknowledge that a D-line with Bowers, Clayborn and GMC playing is VASTLY superior to the D-line that end the season last year

That is assuming those guys stay healthy for a full season.

BUT .. That is the same assumption you make if you fire all those guys and bring on 3 new Free Agents. Every team needs depth but the world is not coming to an end because we let an injured Bennett go or have not YET added a D lineman

No its not. I just hope those guys stay healthy. They havent been able to. Im worried that we dont have some kind of insurance if they arent able to. If not were back to what we had last year and maybe worse. Were taking a little risk by not adding anybody after Bennett left. Lets hope they turn out to be the guys we drafted and not on IR.

It is because none if the three guys has a CHRONIC injury. Clayborn has no injury history so he isn't even part of the discussion. GMC had two unrelated injuries (unless one argues technique, but that would have been corrected). Bowers was believed to maybe have a chronic knee issue, but nothing yet and he played 10 games last year (?) so he has essentially been on a season long recovery of an Achilles already. Bowers and GMC had unfortunate injuries, but they are at the same risk as any other player, most of whom are playing with injury histories anyway.

Besides that, the actual person with the game impacting injury right now is Bennett. The problem with the whole discussion is that many talk about the loss if Bennett as "losing 9 sacks". Those "9 sacks" are as close to a fiction as they could be. The fact that 31 teams passed on him underscores that point because a real 9 sack DE would be a great FA.  Bennett's actual contribution to the 2013 team can be replaced and, in fact, from a value stand point may be more than replaced if the Bucs use a premium pick on a DE

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