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« : April 08, 2013, 05:13:57 PM »

"Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted" -- Lenin

“We have to break through our private idea that kids belong to their parents or kids belong to their families" -- MSNBC host Melissa Harris-Perry ( professor of political science at Tulane University)

http://www.infowars.com/your-kids-belong-to-the-collective/


Nothing creepy here, nope.  just your typical, well-meaning liberal.

Dolorous Jason

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« #1 : April 08, 2013, 06:45:42 PM »

"Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted" -- Lenin


Exibit A: CBW

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

CalcuttaRain

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« #2 : April 08, 2013, 07:24:13 PM »

As characterized by the OP (or the link it came from) no doubt creepy. The question for others to decide is whether the characterization is fair. The topic she speaks on is responsibility not property rights.

I disagree with what she actually said too

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

CBWx2

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« #3 : April 09, 2013, 01:31:16 AM »

Well if Alex Jones says it, it must be true...

Oh the buffoonery...


CBWx2

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« #4 : April 09, 2013, 02:27:09 AM »

"Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted" -- Lenin


Exibit A: CBW

I don't really dig Lenin too much. I do, however, like that Adam Smith character quite a bit. You know of Smith, right? The guy who's teachings your Libertarian gods never miss the opportunity to bastardize? That communist manifesto known as "The Wealth of Nations" seems to support the notion that investment in public education not only benefits the individual, but the society as a whole, therefor, is essential in any "civilized" society:

"The education of the common people requires, perhaps, in a civilized and commercial society the attention of the public more than that of people of some rank and fortune. People of some rank and fortune are generally eighteen or nineteen years of age before they enter upon that particular business, profession, or trade, by which they propose to distinguish themselves in the world. They have before that full time to acquire, or at least to fit themselves for afterwards acquiring, every accomplishment which can recommend them to the public esteem, or render them worthy of it. Their parents or guardians are generally sufficiently anxious that they should be so accomplished, and are, in most cases, willing enough to lay out the expence which is necessary for that purpose. If they are not always properly educated, it is seldom from the want of expence laid out upon their education, but from the improper application of that expence. It is seldom from the want of masters, but from the negligence and incapacity of the masters who are to be had, and from the difficulty, or rather from the impossibility, which there is in the present state of things of finding any better. The employments, too, in which people of some rank or fortune spend the greater part of their lives are not, like those of the common people, simple and uniform. They are almost all of them extremely complicated, and such as exercise the head more than the hands. The understandings of those who are engaged in such employments can seldom grow torpid for want of exercise. The employments of people of some rank and fortune, besides, are seldom such as harass them from morning to night. They generally have a good deal of leisure, during which they may perfect themselves in every branch either of useful or ornamental knowledge of which they may have laid the foundation, or for which they may have acquired some taste in the earlier part of life.

It is otherwise with the common people. They have little time to spare for education. Their parents can scarce afford to maintain them even in infancy. As soon as they are able to work they must apply to some trade by which they can earn their subsistence. That trade, too, is generally so simple and uniform as to give little exercise to the understanding, while, at the same time, their labour is both so constant and so severe, that it leaves them little leisure and less inclination to apply to, or even to think of, anything else.

But though the common people cannot, in any civilized society, be so well instructed as people of some rank and fortune, the most essential parts of education, however, to read, write, and account, can be acquired at so early a period of life that the greater part even of those who are to be bred to the lowest occupations have time to acquire them before they can be employed in those occupations. For a very small expence the public can facilitate, can encourage, and can even impose upon almost the whole body of the people the necessity of acquiring those most essential parts of education."


Some other interesting musings from Comrade Smith...

"The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state. The expense of government to the individuals of a great nation is like the expense of management to the joint tenants of a great estate, who are all obliged to contribute in proportion to their respective interests in the estate. In the observation or neglect of this maxim consists what is called the equality or inequality of taxation."

"The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. A tax upon house-rents, therefore, would in general fall heaviest upon the rich; and in this sort of inequality there would not, perhaps, be anything very unreasonable. It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

That communist SOB!!!


Dolorous Jason

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« #5 : April 09, 2013, 07:06:47 AM »

LOL .....I knew this would lure the Comrade out from under his rock .

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

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« #6 : April 09, 2013, 10:29:14 AM »

Well if Alex Jones says it, it must be true...

Oh the buffoonery...

Would you believe it if you see it with your own eyes?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=N3qtpdSQox0
« : April 09, 2013, 10:32:16 AM spartan »

CalcuttaRain

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« #7 : April 09, 2013, 12:05:00 PM »

I completely disagree with her position on schools, but it's odd the way her comments are being  characterized. Her comments are basically no different than "it takes a village .."   She's discussing community responsibility not community ownership.

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

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« #8 : April 09, 2013, 12:56:24 PM »

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/04/08/msnbc_ad_kids_dont_belong_to_their_parents_its_collective_responsibility.html
I think she is wrong on public schools, and I think her collectivism is shining through

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

spartan

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« #9 : April 09, 2013, 01:34:12 PM »

I completely disagree with her position on schools, but it's odd the way her comments are being  characterized. Her comments are basically no different than "it takes a village .."   She's discussing community responsibility not community ownership.

In which case for a Political Science Professor she sucks at communication.

"We need to get away from the private notion that kids belong to their parents or their family"

Really? Just how are we supposed to interpret that? That is ownership pure and simple.

CBWx2

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« #10 : April 09, 2013, 01:45:52 PM »

I completely disagree with her position on schools, but it's odd the way her comments are being  characterized. Her comments are basically no different than "it takes a village .."   She's discussing community responsibility not community ownership.

In which case for a Political Science Professor she sucks at communication.

"We need to get away from the private notion that kids belong to their parents or their family"

Really? Just how are we supposed to interpret that? That is ownership pure and simple.

Poor choice of words, but the meaning of her statement is pretty clear. She is basically saying that society as a whole has a stake in producing educated, and well adjusted children, not just the child's parents, because society as a whole will either see the benefits or the repercussions of that investment, or lack thereof.


CalcuttaRain

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« #11 : April 09, 2013, 01:50:57 PM »

I completely disagree with her position on schools, but it's odd the way her comments are being  characterized. Her comments are basically no different than "it takes a village .."   She's discussing community responsibility not community ownership.

In which case for a Political Science Professor she sucks at communication.

"We need to get away from the private notion that kids belong to their parents or their family"

Really? Just how are we supposed to interpret that? That is ownership pure and simple.

Spartan, did you actually watch the video and only come away with that sentence or are you going off the summary/article? I ask because i think if you watch the video its pretty hard to miss she is talking about responsibility. In fact, if you look at the link DBuc provided it actually includes the word responsibility.

Again, I disagree with her comments, but its pretty clear that they are taken out of context.  The sentence you quoted is not much different than "it takes a village" if you listen to the whole thing.

EDIT:  This is from DBuc's link and it looks like it follows immediately after the part you quoted:

" . . .and recognize that kids belong to whole communities. Once it’s everyone’s responsibility and not just the household’s, then we start making better investments." (Emphasis added)

That means the whole quote is this:

"We need to get away from the private notion that kids belong to their parents or their family . . . . . .and recognize that kids belong to whole communities. Once it’s everyone’s responsibility and not just the household’s, then we start making better investments."


this thread illustrates the peril of taking things from political websites, of any stripe.
« : April 09, 2013, 01:55:57 PM VinBucFan »

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

dbucfan

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« #12 : April 09, 2013, 02:08:01 PM »

I completely disagree with her position on schools, but it's odd the way her comments are being  characterized. Her comments are basically no different than "it takes a village .."   She's discussing community responsibility not community ownership.

In which case for a Political Science Professor she sucks at communication.

"We need to get away from the private notion that kids belong to their parents or their family"

Really? Just how are we supposed to interpret that? That is ownership pure and simple.
I am hearing and reading it in the same manner as you Spartan.

“These are our children.” So part of it is we have to break through our kind of private idea that kids belong to their parents or kids belong to their families and recognize that kids belong to whole communities. Once it’s everyone’s responsibility and not just the household’s, then we start making better investments."

Now whether she intended to say it in this fashion is undetermined - but the words are what they are.

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

CalcuttaRain

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« #13 : April 09, 2013, 02:15:10 PM »

I completely disagree with her position on schools, but it's odd the way her comments are being  characterized. Her comments are basically no different than "it takes a village .."   She's discussing community responsibility not community ownership.

In which case for a Political Science Professor she sucks at communication.

"We need to get away from the private notion that kids belong to their parents or their family"

Really? Just how are we supposed to interpret that? That is ownership pure and simple.
I am hearing and reading it in the same manner as you Spartan.

“These are our children.” So part of it is we have to break through our kind of private idea that kids belong to their parents or kids belong to their families and recognize that kids belong to whole communities. Once it’s everyone’s responsibility and not just the household’s, then we start making better investments."

Now whether she intended to say it in this fashion is undetermined - but the words are what they are.

Hillary Clinton:

"And we have learned that to raise a happy, healthy and hopeful child, it takes a family, it takes teachers, it takes clergy, it takes business people, it takes community leaders, it takes those who protect our health and safety, it takes all of us.

Yes, it takes a village."

"How we care for our own and other people's children isn't only a question of morality; our self-interest is at stake too. No family is immune to the influences of the larger society. "


Now, the context of this thread is to equate the professor's comments with Lenin:

"Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted" -- Lenin

Neither Clinton nor the professor were offering the same thing as Lenin . . . .  c'mon now
« : April 09, 2013, 02:22:14 PM VinBucFan »

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

dbucfan

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« #14 : April 09, 2013, 02:33:48 PM »

No - these are not OUR children.  They are the children of their parents who are influenced by others.  The family unit is a  subset of an overall society that has rules and mores - hopefully

No - whole communities do not own the family's children.  The children are members of a family, and again the family unit is a subset of an overall society.

Breaking up the family unit to create ownership of a child via a communal setting is inconsistent with the family unit. 

As for what Ms. Clinton offered - I believe she was establishing contributions a "village" makes toward the development of a family's children - rather than ownership. jmvho

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant
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