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olafberserker

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#60 : April 16, 2013, 12:17:57 PM

i dont see why you cant admit there is a possibility that the Glazers didnt want to spend big money on FA's while they were gutting the roster.

I think most people believe that.  It's the reason Raheem was here and possible one of the reasons Dom was here

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#61 : April 16, 2013, 12:20:29 PM

i dont see why you cant admit there is a possibility that the Glazers didnt want to spend big money on FA's while they were gutting the roster.

I TOTALLY think the Glazers put the virginity belt on their checkbook after hiring Dom....I just haven't seen any quotes from those in positions to know verifying that as fact.



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#62 : April 16, 2013, 12:23:38 PM

The issue with Dom is simple, and it's not.

Comparing the team's record under Allen versus Dom is useless. Forget the players that Allen inherited. He inherited one of the best coaches in the league, one of the great defensive coordinators of all time, and a deep staff.  They went 11-5 the first season, but never recreated that "magic" as the core got older (some of those problems Allen inherited as well). The 2007 Bucs might have had one of the worst run-ups to the playoffs I can remember - they lost 3 out of their last 4 and only "won" the division at 9-7 because the rest of the group was so lousy. They got trounced at home in the playoffs and went golfing. In 2008, they once again started hot, only to fizzle, losing 4 straight when just a single win gets them into the playoffs.

Why recount this? Because the details matter. Think about the Glazers' mentality - They have seen the fortunes of their team go basically steadily up and up, and now they are watching a team that in 2007-2008 went 1 - 8 in the final quarter (and playoffs) of the season. They are about to lose their DC and the defense that had held the team together since Allen arrived looked cooked (the offense stopped functioning years prior). 

Dom's deal is different because the Glazers now looked at the team differently. They wanted a house cleaning, and appeared prepared to weather the storm. They also took a huge gamble on the HC. The consequences on that are largely on them, which is likely why they didn't fire Dom along with Raheem.

So I think whether he stays or goes is more of a qualitative thing than a quantitative thing - are they getting better or are they regressing? Do they barely miss the playoffs? Do they back into the playoffs? Is Freeman a failed pick? Do some of the corners the Bucs have cut on the rosters come back to bite Dom? Does the Schiano-Dominik relationship work?


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#63 : April 16, 2013, 12:33:38 PM

The issue with Dom is simple, and it's not.

Comparing the team's record under Allen versus Dom is useless. Forget the players that Allen inherited. He inherited one of the best coaches in the league, one of the great defensive coordinators of all time, and a deep staff.  They went 11-5 the first season, but never recreated that "magic" as the core got older (some of those problems Allen inherited as well). The 2007 Bucs might have had one of the worst run-ups to the playoffs I can remember - they lost 3 out of their last 4 and only "won" the division at 9-7 because the rest of the group was so lousy. They got trounced at home in the playoffs and went golfing. In 2008, they once again started hot, only to fizzle, losing 4 straight when just a single win gets them into the playoffs.

Why recount this? Because the details matter. Think about the Glazers' mentality - They have seen the fortunes of their team go basically steadily up and up, and now they are watching a team that in 2007-2008 went 1 - 8 in the final quarter (and playoffs) of the season. They are about to lose their DC and the defense that had held the team together since Allen arrived looked cooked (the offense stopped functioning years prior). 

Dom's deal is different because the Glazers now looked at the team differently. They wanted a house cleaning, and appeared prepared to weather the storm. They also took a huge gamble on the HC. The consequences on that are largely on them, which is likely why they didn't fire Dom along with Raheem.

So I think whether he stays or goes is more of a qualitative thing than a quantitative thing - are they getting better or are they regressing? Do they barely miss the playoffs? Do they back into the playoffs? Is Freeman a failed pick? Do some of the corners the Bucs have cut on the rosters come back to bite Dom? Does the Schiano-Dominik relationship work?

Sound analysis especially the final paragraph....that would be how I'd approach the question of whether he stays or goes.



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#64 : April 16, 2013, 12:39:08 PM

The issue with Dom is simple, and it's not.

Comparing the team's record under Allen versus Dom is useless. Forget the players that Allen inherited. He inherited one of the best coaches in the league, one of the great defensive coordinators of all time, and a deep staff.  They went 11-5 the first season, but never recreated that "magic" as the core got older (some of those problems Allen inherited as well). The 2007 Bucs might have had one of the worst run-ups to the playoffs I can remember - they lost 3 out of their last 4 and only "won" the division at 9-7 because the rest of the group was so lousy. They got trounced at home in the playoffs and went golfing. In 2008, they once again started hot, only to fizzle, losing 4 straight when just a single win gets them into the playoffs.

Why recount this? Because the details matter. Think about the Glazers' mentality - They have seen the fortunes of their team go basically steadily up and up, and now they are watching a team that in 2007-2008 went 1 - 8 in the final quarter (and playoffs) of the season. They are about to lose their DC and the defense that had held the team together since Allen arrived looked cooked (the offense stopped functioning years prior). 

Dom's deal is different because the Glazers now looked at the team differently. They wanted a house cleaning, and appeared prepared to weather the storm. They also took a huge gamble on the HC. The consequences on that are largely on them, which is likely why they didn't fire Dom along with Raheem.

So I think whether he stays or goes is more of a qualitative thing than a quantitative thing - are they getting better or are they regressing? Do they barely miss the playoffs? Do they back into the playoffs? Is Freeman a failed pick? Do some of the corners the Bucs have cut on the rosters come back to bite Dom? Does the Schiano-Dominik relationship work?

Nailed it.  One of the best posts I have read on this board.

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#65 : April 16, 2013, 12:41:00 PM

The issue with Dom is simple, and it's not.

Comparing the team's record under Allen versus Dom is useless. Forget the players that Allen inherited. He inherited one of the best coaches in the league, one of the great defensive coordinators of all time, and a deep staff.  They went 11-5 the first season, but never recreated that "magic" as the core got older (some of those problems Allen inherited as well). The 2007 Bucs might have had one of the worst run-ups to the playoffs I can remember - they lost 3 out of their last 4 and only "won" the division at 9-7 because the rest of the group was so lousy. They got trounced at home in the playoffs and went golfing. In 2008, they once again started hot, only to fizzle, losing 4 straight when just a single win gets them into the playoffs.

Why recount this? Because the details matter. Think about the Glazers' mentality - They have seen the fortunes of their team go basically steadily up and up, and now they are watching a team that in 2007-2008 went 1 - 8 in the final quarter (and playoffs) of the season. They are about to lose their DC and the defense that had held the team together since Allen arrived looked cooked (the offense stopped functioning years prior). 

Dom's deal is different because the Glazers now looked at the team differently. They wanted a house cleaning, and appeared prepared to weather the storm. They also took a huge gamble on the HC. The consequences on that are largely on them, which is likely why they didn't fire Dom along with Raheem.

So I think whether he stays or goes is more of a qualitative thing than a quantitative thing - are they getting better or are they regressing? Do they barely miss the playoffs? Do they back into the playoffs? Is Freeman a failed pick? Do some of the corners the Bucs have cut on the rosters come back to bite Dom? Does the Schiano-Dominik relationship work?

Excellent post.


Hell, brees might not be as accurate as manziel.

blind melon

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#66 : April 16, 2013, 12:42:02 PM

Must agree...  good post Booker.

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#67 : April 16, 2013, 01:12:27 PM


Nice job, Booker.

But you failed when you forgot to tell me that David is irrelevant.

olafberserker

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#68 : April 16, 2013, 01:27:19 PM

Good post BR, but I don't think there was a comparison between Dom and Allen's records as much as FRG was pointing out that playoff appearances were at least past of the criteria used when deciding to dismiss Gru/Allen.   Taking everything you said into consideration, this is still year 5 of the plan and will be 2 years removed from the disaster that was the Raheem coaching staff so I believe the team being of playoff quality should be a strong factor.   As I said previously, every year should be looked at individually and I could see circumstances where we missed the playoffs and he didn't lose his job.

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#69 : April 16, 2013, 01:57:05 PM

The issue with Dom is simple, and it's not.

Comparing the team's record under Allen versus Dom is useless. Forget the players that Allen inherited. He inherited one of the best coaches in the league, one of the great defensive coordinators of all time, and a deep staff.  They went 11-5 the first season, but never recreated that "magic" as the core got older (some of those problems Allen inherited as well). The 2007 Bucs might have had one of the worst run-ups to the playoffs I can remember - they lost 3 out of their last 4 and only "won" the division at 9-7 because the rest of the group was so lousy. They got trounced at home in the playoffs and went golfing. In 2008, they once again started hot, only to fizzle, losing 4 straight when just a single win gets them into the playoffs.

Why recount this? Because the details matter. Think about the Glazers' mentality - They have seen the fortunes of their team go basically steadily up and up, and now they are watching a team that in 2007-2008 went 1 - 8 in the final quarter (and playoffs) of the season. They are about to lose their DC and the defense that had held the team together since Allen arrived looked cooked (the offense stopped functioning years prior). 

Dom's deal is different because the Glazers now looked at the team differently. They wanted a house cleaning, and appeared prepared to weather the storm. They also took a huge gamble on the HC. The consequences on that are largely on them, which is likely why they didn't fire Dom along with Raheem.

So I think whether he stays or goes is more of a qualitative thing than a quantitative thing - are they getting better or are they regressing? Do they barely miss the playoffs? Do they back into the playoffs? Is Freeman a failed pick? Do some of the corners the Bucs have cut on the rosters come back to bite Dom? Does the Schiano-Dominik relationship work?





Good stuff.  Booker used to have a blog about the Bucs. It was pretty good.  Wish he still had it going.


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#70 : April 16, 2013, 02:02:08 PM

Great stuff, BR. Valid points. Go 10 and 6 with missing playoffs on a tiebreaker and he probably stays. But go 7 and 9 again and he should go. It's the in between that a tough to analyze.

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#71 : April 16, 2013, 02:10:49 PM

The issue with Dom is simple, and it's not.

Comparing the team's record under Allen versus Dom is useless. Forget the players that Allen inherited. He inherited one of the best coaches in the league, one of the great defensive coordinators of all time, and a deep staff.  They went 11-5 the first season, but never recreated that "magic" as the core got older (some of those problems Allen inherited as well). The 2007 Bucs might have had one of the worst run-ups to the playoffs I can remember - they lost 3 out of their last 4 and only "won" the division at 9-7 because the rest of the group was so lousy. They got trounced at home in the playoffs and went golfing. In 2008, they once again started hot, only to fizzle, losing 4 straight when just a single win gets them into the playoffs.

Why recount this? Because the details matter. Think about the Glazers' mentality - They have seen the fortunes of their team go basically steadily up and up, and now they are watching a team that in 2007-2008 went 1 - 8 in the final quarter (and playoffs) of the season. They are about to lose their DC and the defense that had held the team together since Allen arrived looked cooked (the offense stopped functioning years prior). 

Dom's deal is different because the Glazers now looked at the team differently. They wanted a house cleaning, and appeared prepared to weather the storm. They also took a huge gamble on the HC. The consequences on that are largely on them, which is likely why they didn't fire Dom along with Raheem.

So I think whether he stays or goes is more of a qualitative thing than a quantitative thing - are they getting better or are they regressing? Do they barely miss the playoffs? Do they back into the playoffs? Is Freeman a failed pick? Do some of the corners the Bucs have cut on the rosters come back to bite Dom? Does the Schiano-Dominik relationship work?

If the details matter then you should actually get them right.

First of all Gru/Allen went 4-12 in their first season, 2004.

In 2007 we were locked into the 3/4 seed after Week 15 so the backups played a ton vs SF and CAR. That's the only reason why they lost those 2 games.

We didn't get trounced at home vs the Giants. We lost by 10 and there was a 10 point flinch by a Giants O-linemen because Adams sacked Manning, ball came out and Bucs were running it into the endzone and the refs blew the play dead. Giants kicked a FG 2 plays later.

That 2007 team was pretty damn good, despite the crappy QB.

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#72 : April 16, 2013, 03:01:25 PM

The issue with Dom is simple, and it's not.

Comparing the team's record under Allen versus Dom is useless. Forget the players that Allen inherited. He inherited one of the best coaches in the league, one of the great defensive coordinators of all time, and a deep staff.  They went 11-5 the first season, but never recreated that "magic" as the core got older (some of those problems Allen inherited as well). The 2007 Bucs might have had one of the worst run-ups to the playoffs I can remember - they lost 3 out of their last 4 and only "won" the division at 9-7 because the rest of the group was so lousy. They got trounced at home in the playoffs and went golfing. In 2008, they once again started hot, only to fizzle, losing 4 straight when just a single win gets them into the playoffs.

Why recount this? Because the details matter. Think about the Glazers' mentality - They have seen the fortunes of their team go basically steadily up and up, and now they are watching a team that in 2007-2008 went 1 - 8 in the final quarter (and playoffs) of the season. They are about to lose their DC and the defense that had held the team together since Allen arrived looked cooked (the offense stopped functioning years prior). 

Dom's deal is different because the Glazers now looked at the team differently. They wanted a house cleaning, and appeared prepared to weather the storm. They also took a huge gamble on the HC. The consequences on that are largely on them, which is likely why they didn't fire Dom along with Raheem.

So I think whether he stays or goes is more of a qualitative thing than a quantitative thing - are they getting better or are they regressing? Do they barely miss the playoffs? Do they back into the playoffs? Is Freeman a failed pick? Do some of the corners the Bucs have cut on the rosters come back to bite Dom? Does the Schiano-Dominik relationship work?

If the details matter then you should actually get them right.

First of all Gru/Allen went 4-12 in their first season, 2004.

In 2007 we were locked into the 3/4 seed after Week 15 so the backups played a ton vs SF and CAR. That's the only reason why they lost those 2 games.

We didn't get trounced at home vs the Giants. We lost by 10 and there was a 10 point flinch by a Giants O-linemen because Adams sacked Manning, ball came out and Bucs were running it into the endzone and the refs blew the play dead. Giants kicked a FG 2 plays later.

That 2007 team was pretty damn good, despite the crappy QB.

Let me guess, hardcore Gruden/Allen fan?

I think the post was actually about Dom

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#73 : April 16, 2013, 03:19:32 PM

JC5100, correct, I shouldn't have written about that as his first season. I originally was going to talk about 2004 and 2006, but changed it to focus on the good years.

That said, can't agree with much else that you said. I'm very well aware that they lost two games with lots of backups playing (including Luke McCown). But when you win your division with 9 wins that early because: your division sucks;  beat nobody (two wins against > .500 opponents, the Titans and Skins, and the Titans lost a QB in the process); get solidly beaten in a home playoff game...sorry, not all that impressed.

The score of the Giants game absolutely flattered the Bucs.  Once they got moving offensively they started picking us apart - the 92-yard drive was foreshadowing for several 2008 games.

Now that you mention it 2007 goes a long way toward what I mean. Gruden came into the season on the hot-seat after the 2006 disaster. Expectations were fairly low (though the arrival of Jeff Garcia elevated them), and Gruden apparently met them to the Glazers' satisfaction. Now raised, 2008 looked even worse.

To the other comments, thanks for the kind words.

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#74 : April 16, 2013, 03:31:29 PM

Let me guess, hardcore Gruden/Allen fan?

I do like Allen. Better than the bozo GM we have now.
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