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michael89156

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: April 19, 2013, 12:16:32 AM


Draft brings mixed results for Bucs' Dominik

Rick Stroud, Times Staff Writer 
 

Wednesday, April 17, 2013 4:30am
 








TAMPA

Mark Dominik is aware of the Bucs' record since he took over as general manager in January 2009: 24-40. There are some other key figures worth noting: two coaches, six coordinators and no playoff appearances.
 
"My record is what it is," he said. "But I think our situation, in terms of where we started and where we're going, is completely different than when I took over. I'll like our team when we walk onto the field this year."
 
Quarterback Josh Freeman is the only player left on the roster from the Bucs' first draft under Dominik from a class of six. Because Freeman is in the final year of his contract and his future in Tampa Bay is as wobbly as a deflected pass, the entire class hinges on his success.
 
Dominik's draft history is checkered with a few other obvious failures. Defensive tackle Brian Price and receiver Arrelious Benn, second-rounders in 2010, no longer are with the team. Cornerback Myron Lewis, a third-round pick that year, has started only one game. With the exception of receiver Mike Williams, the Bucs have swung and missed in the fourth round.
 
But at worst, the record is mixed. Under Dominik, the Bucs also have netted two Pro Bowl players in defensive tackle Gerald McCoy and running back Doug Martin, an all-rookie defensive end in Adrian Clayborn, the leading tackler from the 2010 rookie class in linebacker Mason Foster, the club's leading tackler last season as a rookie in linebacker Lavonte David and a promising young safety in Mark Barron.
 
"I think Doug Martin was a rousing success and so is Mark Barron, and McCoy has been fine. And I like some of their other young players," said former Bills, Panthers and Colts general manager Bill Polian, an analyst for ESPN. "In the end, it all depends on Freeman and whether he can take the next step.

"If they have another good draft this time around and Freeman gets better, I think they're well on their way to being a contender."
 
To judge how Dominik and his staff have done evaluating talent, you have to consider the job he inherited.
 
After the 2008 season, the Bucs decided to gut the franchise of most veterans, including linebacker Derrick Brooks, and rebuild through the draft. Unlike many reclamation projects that come with a top-five pick in each round of the draft, Dominik selected 19th as a result of the team's 9-7 record.
 
Two days after being named general manager, Dominik boarded a commercial flight to Pensacola, rented a car and drove to Mobile, Ala., with new coach Raheem Morris to watch Senior Bowl workouts. Dominik had viewed no college tape, having been promoted from pro personnel director.
 
His attention was split between watching prospects and lining up interviews to fill Morris' staff. The interruptions were so frequent that Dominik and Morris decided to leave the workouts a day early and return to Tampa.
 
Fortunately for the Bucs, Morris knew Freeman from his one season as defensive coordinator at Kansas State. Defensive tackle Roy Miller, a third-round choice in 2009 from Texas, started four seasons before signing with the Jaguars during this offseason. Two sixth-round picks, receiver Sammie Stroughter and cornerback E.J. Biggers, also played through last season.

"I think the reality is we came out okay," Dominik said.

"At the end of the day, Josh Freeman holds basically every record in the books for us right now."
 
Freeman, 25, set team season records for passing yards (4,065) and touchdowns (27) last season and is the franchise leader in passing touchdowns (78).
 
To judge how the Bucs have done in the draft under Dominik, you have to weigh their performance against other teams.
 
The Bucs have taken 30 players, 21 before the seventh round. Those players have started 34.6 percent of all games. That's more than perennial contenders such as the Ravens (21.1 percent), Packers (27.7), Falcons (21.3), Patriots (24.3), 49ers (22.7) and Texans (27.6).
 
While the jury still is out on oft-injured players such as Clayborn and fellow defensive end Da'Quan Bowers, Dominik believes the team's draft process has evolved and is improving, continuing to emphasize production over potential.
 
"I think each draft class has gotten a little bit better," he said. "Have we been getting starts out of our fifth- and sixth-rounders? No. That's the one area we've got to do a better job."
 
Coach Greg Schiano also has had a major influence on the evaluation of players.
 
"We just talked a lot about the passion the player has for football," Dominik said. "We want the passionate player, the guy who will put the time in and really lives the game."
 
Time will tell if the 2013 draft will help the Bucs end their playoff drought. A lot depends on Freeman, the first choice the team made under Dominik.
 



Rick Stroud can be reached at stroud@tampabay.com and heard from 6 to 9 a.m. weekdays on WDAE-620.

The Anti-Java

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#1 : April 19, 2013, 01:17:16 AM

Coach Greg Schiano also has had a major influence on the evaluation of players.





Interesting.  So the last draft was pretty good, but was it Dom, Schiano or Butch Davis calling the shots?  Only they know the answer, and I doubt we find out anytime soon.


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#2 : April 19, 2013, 06:42:05 AM

I don't like the overall record but I do like that Dom owns it and doesn't hide from it.
A few people have compared the team in 2009 as being like that of an expansion squad due to all the over the hill, over paid guys that had to be dumped, I would agree with that to a degree and the record compared to the Texans and Browns first 4 years would back it up
Texans 18-46
Browns 21-43 (with a 9-7 playoff year)
I guess the extra couple of wins we had could be down to the few talented pieces left over from Gruden's Retirement Home era.

One thing in there I didn't like being used as something of a negative towards him was...
"There are some other key figures worth noting: two coaches, six coordinators and no playoff appearances."
I don't think you can put the initial coaching staff on him, they were essentially a done deal when he got the job, then thanks to that first coach being so bad his staff got dumped along with him when he was fired, So he's only now on his first true coach staff IMO.

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#3 : April 19, 2013, 06:57:51 AM

I don't like the overall record but I do like that Dom owns it and doesn't hide from it.
A few people have compared the team in 2009 as being like that of an expansion squad due to all the over the hill, over paid guys that had to be dumped, I would agree with that to a degree and the record compared to the Texans and Browns first 4 years would back it up
Texans 18-46
Browns 21-43 (with a 9-7 playoff year)
I guess the extra couple of wins we had could be down to the few talented pieces left over from Gruden's Retirement Home era.

One thing in there I didn't like being used as something of a negative towards him was...
"There are some other key figures worth noting: two coaches, six coordinators and no playoff appearances."
I don't think you can put the initial coaching staff on him, they were essentially a done deal when he got the job, then thanks to that first coach being so bad his staff got dumped along with him when he was fired, So he's only now on his first true coach staff IMO.

Doesn't explain why he's bombing on 2nd and 3rd round picks (including the Winslow trade).

TBTrojan

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#4 : April 19, 2013, 07:12:31 AM

I don't like the overall record but I do like that Dom owns it and doesn't hide from it.
A few people have compared the team in 2009 as being like that of an expansion squad due to all the over the hill, over paid guys that had to be dumped, I would agree with that to a degree and the record compared to the Texans and Browns first 4 years would back it up
Texans 18-46
Browns 21-43 (with a 9-7 playoff year)
I guess the extra couple of wins we had could be down to the few talented pieces left over from Gruden's Retirement Home era.

One thing in there I didn't like being used as something of a negative towards him was...
"There are some other key figures worth noting: two coaches, six coordinators and no playoff appearances."
I don't think you can put the initial coaching staff on him, they were essentially a done deal when he got the job, then thanks to that first coach being so bad his staff got dumped along with him when he was fired, So he's only now on his first true coach staff IMO.

Doesn't explain why he's bombing on 2nd and 3rd round picks (including the Winslow trade).
Well the 2nd rounders are easy to explain, he's taking a chance on boom or bust players where if they pan out he's a genius if they flop it was worth a shot due to the potential, 2nd round is the perfect pace to try it but unfortunately it's kinda backfired so far.
You only have to look at Bowers, this was a potential #1 overall based on pure talent, using a 2nd rounder to get that talent and risking how well he recovered from injury was worth a shot.
3rd rounders I have no clue what the issue is there

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#5 : April 19, 2013, 08:05:47 AM

Can't dump it all on Dom....Schiano is Dom's coach so I'm basing my evaluation on Coach S and beyond.

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#6 : April 19, 2013, 08:14:11 AM

"After the 2008 season, the Bucs decided to gut the franchise of most veterans, including linebacker Derrick Brooks, and rebuild through the draft."


"To judge how the Bucs have done in the draft under Dominik, you have to weigh their performance against other teams.
 
The Bucs have taken 30 players, 21 before the seventh round. Those players have started 34.6 percent of all games. That's more than perennial contenders such as the Ravens (21.1 percent), Packers (27.7), Falcons (21.3), Patriots (24.3), 49ers (22.7) and Texans (27.6)."


Is it possible the first event might have impacted the second?



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#7 : April 19, 2013, 08:22:47 AM

"The Bucs have taken 30 players, 21 before the seventh round. Those players have started 34.6 percent of all games. That's more than perennial contenders such as the Ravens (21.1 percent), Packers (27.7), Falcons (21.3), Patriots (24.3), 49ers (22.7) and Texans (27.6)."

This is quite telling of what Dom inherited - a club with so little depth and talent that more young players had to start before they were ready. 

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#8 : April 19, 2013, 08:29:58 AM

Number of starters means nothing.  The talent level was so low we were starting tons of 7th rounders and UFAs.  In 2010 didn't we start 16 rookies during the season?


Feel Real Good

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#9 : April 19, 2013, 08:50:01 AM

Coach Greg Schiano also has had a major influence on the evaluation of players.

Interesting.  So the last draft was pretty good, but was it Dom, Schiano or Butch Davis calling the shots?  Only they know the answer, and I doubt we find out anytime soon.
Do you know the players Butch Davis drafted in Cleveland? They were worse than the Gruden/Allen picks.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#10 : April 19, 2013, 08:51:42 AM

You only have to look at Bowers, this was a potential #1 overall based on pure talent, using a 2nd rounder to get that talent and risking how well he recovered from injury was worth a shot.
The guy who has 4.5 sacks in two seasons? That's an example of a good move?

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

BucfanNC12

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#11 : April 19, 2013, 08:54:44 AM

You only have to look at Bowers, this was a potential #1 overall based on pure talent, using a 2nd rounder to get that talent and risking how well he recovered from injury was worth a shot.
The guy who has 4.5 sacks in two seasons? That's an example of a good move?

Yes. All the scouting in world can't predict injuries.

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#12 : April 19, 2013, 08:56:58 AM

Number of starters means nothing.  The talent level was so low we were starting tons of 7th rounders and UFAs.  In 2010 didn't we start 16 rookies during the season?

Yes and that was the best record we had thus far. Two mistakes were made IMO, 1. being cheap and not signing free-agent 2 relying solely on the draft to build a team. I also think letting Caddy go was a big lose especially for Freeman.

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#13 : April 19, 2013, 08:57:59 AM

You only have to look at Bowers, this was a potential #1 overall based on pure talent, using a 2nd rounder to get that talent and risking how well he recovered from injury was worth a shot.
The guy who has 4.5 sacks in two seasons? That's an example of a good move?
Isn't hindsight a great thing, if you bothered to read what was actually said it was that his talent was worth a shot, taking a risk on injury.
You do know what taking a risk means don't you?
It means he might not recover and as luck would have it he has had injury issues.
He was still worth taking a flyer on.

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#14 : April 19, 2013, 09:01:22 AM

You only have to look at Bowers, this was a potential #1 overall based on pure talent, using a 2nd rounder to get that talent and risking how well he recovered from injury was worth a shot.
The guy who has 4.5 sacks in two seasons? That's an example of a good move?

Yes. All the scouting in world can't predict injuries.
Really? Didn't the entire NFL pass on him at least once because of injury concerns?

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.
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