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Bucpride5

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#45 : April 23, 2013, 11:33:09 AM

His article is summed up in one sentence:

I just don't like trading draft picks for a guy coming of ACL.

But of course he has to fill a quota

draft choices aren't a guarantee to make a difference on this team - as been proven over the years.

Especially with the Bucs history of drafting players who can't play or stay healthy.

Formerly known as T

 I\'ll be optimistic until I see a reason not to be

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#46 : April 23, 2013, 11:36:36 AM

So a team that was in so many close games (Washington, Dallas, NYG, 1st New Orleans game, 1st ATL game, Philly game and the Denver game) with the league's worst pass defense and a weak pass rush and a streaky QB, is the 3rd worst team in the division after adding 2 Pro Bowlers in the secondary?

Sorry i don't buy it. Maybe I'm blinded by hate but I see Atlanta dropping off a bit, and the south coming down to Tampa and New Orleans.

I think Tampa showed that they will be competitive and will be an easy win for no one(on most weeks). Thing is, last year was last year. Different teams. Different circumstances. Until they prove otherwise, this team is still just a nice shiny bottle of potential. Adding talent doesn't always equal instant success. They still have to gel as a team and players still need to stay healthy. So we can sit here and count pro-bowl selections, all-pro selections, career stats, etc...but none of it matters until these players start playing at an elite level, while wearing a Bucs jersey.

You will also have people say that, "if you put better players on the '12 Bucs secondary, then it's an instant playoff team...". I don't necessarily agree with that. During games, opponents respond to each other according to the circumstances presented to them. You can't cherry pick certain plays from entire games and say that the outcome would have been different if you change this, this, and this play. It's impossible to know. Putting a different player on the field may have caused the offense to react in a different way resulting in the same outcome. Last year is in the books. In all likelihood, the Bucs are not going to be in the exact same situations that they were in last year. Schedule is tougher. Conference is tougher. Collectively, the offense and defense will have to consistently play good football for the entire year to make the playoffs. Our opponents now have a years worth of tape to study this offense and will most likely formulate some defensive gameplans that will make things a bit more challenging.

I don't think that Atlanta and New Orleans are a lot better from a talent standpoint, but they are both teams who have proven over the past few years that they can beat any team out there and they are dominant at home. Those are two areas we need to drastically improve upon, before we start talking about jumping one of them.

Great post.

We all hope and assume the offense will play the same. But look at the Lions from last year, they were a playoff team a year prior and are now picking in the top 10. So while I think the Bucs offense is built to be successful year after year, barring injury. Strong offensive line, commitment to the run game, dangerous perimeter players, and a QB to get the playmakers the ball. You are right every year is different. Only constants you can count on in this league are the elite QB's Brady, Peyton, Rodgers & Brees.

2012 is all we have to go on. You say other teams have film of the Bucs offense, well now Schiano and his staff have film on their opponents as well, and what works defensively against them and what doesn't so hopefully they use and apply this to slow other teams offenses down.

Either way I'm pretty optimistic about 2013.

Same here. Anything can happen. I definitely wouldn't be surprised if this team not only made the playoffs but ended up getting past their first game. There is certainly the potential to be a very good football team. I just think some(not you in particular), need to pump the brakes and realize that we are not the only team who will be getting players back from injury, nor are we the only team who has/will acquire upgrades to positions of weakness before the beginning of the season. So we can create threads about how many pro-bowlers we have on the roster, and how many franchise records this team is going to set, but at the end of the day...neither one of those things matter. They have to go out and take care of business on a situational basis. Offensively, score when given the opportunity and have extensive drives. Defensively, eliminate the big plays and limit the opposing offense from extending drives. Stats be damned. Pro-bowls be damned. Offensively, it's going to ride on efficient QB play. Defensively, it will ride on pass rush. Sure, there are other factors when it comes to offense and defense, but I see those two things as being key to either us being very successful, or having limited success.


Until preseason, you stay classy Red Board.

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#47 : April 23, 2013, 11:45:30 AM

We shall see...I am not really a fan of adding veterans as a means to an end because it rarely translates to success.

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#48 : April 23, 2013, 11:49:57 AM

So a team that was in so many close games (Washington, Dallas, NYG, 1st New Orleans game, 1st ATL game, Philly game and the Denver game) with the league's worst pass defense and a weak pass rush and a streaky QB, is the 3rd worst team in the division after adding 2 Pro Bowlers in the secondary?

Sorry i don't buy it. Maybe I'm blinded by hate but I see Atlanta dropping off a bit, and the south coming down to Tampa and New Orleans.

I think Tampa showed that they will be competitive and will be an easy win for no one(on most weeks). Thing is, last year was last year. Different teams. Different circumstances. Until they prove otherwise, this team is still just a nice shiny bottle of potential. Adding talent doesn't always equal instant success. They still have to gel as a team and players still need to stay healthy. So we can sit here and count pro-bowl selections, all-pro selections, career stats, etc...but none of it matters until these players start playing at an elite level, while wearing a Bucs jersey.

You will also have people say that, "if you put better players on the '12 Bucs secondary, then it's an instant playoff team...". I don't necessarily agree with that. During games, opponents respond to each other according to the circumstances presented to them. You can't cherry pick certain plays from entire games and say that the outcome would have been different if you change this, this, and this play. It's impossible to know. Putting a different player on the field may have caused the offense to react in a different way resulting in the same outcome. Last year is in the books. In all likelihood, the Bucs are not going to be in the exact same situations that they were in last year. Schedule is tougher. Conference is tougher. Collectively, the offense and defense will have to consistently play good football for the entire year to make the playoffs. Our opponents now have a years worth of tape to study this offense and will most likely formulate some defensive gameplans that will make things a bit more challenging.

I don't think that Atlanta and New Orleans are a lot better from a talent standpoint, but they are both teams who have proven over the past few years that they can beat any team out there and they are dominant at home. Those are two areas we need to drastically improve upon, before we start talking about jumping one of them.

We prolly do not even finish 7-9 if we would just redo the 2012 season, could be 10-6, or 4-12. Doing nothing now, good or bad?

Still we should learn from the past. This TEAM was unable to stop any passing attack, especially late in the game, to hold on to any lead. 'Upgrades' at CB and FS should have major impact changing this fact.
Sure, maybe we will not asked to this often next year, for whatever reason, the offense putting up so many points or Freeman sucking so hard, we are not in contention after 1st half anyway, or just (bad) luck.(-> onsider kicks/ coin toss), maybe Revis and Goldson will still be part of the #31 pass defense.

So i just take the 'I think Tampa showed that they will be competitive and will be an easy win for no one(on most weeks)'.

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#49 : April 23, 2013, 11:50:51 AM

Tell you what. I'm bullish on the Bucs this season. Favorable schedule, lots of top players in their prime. Coaching staff in place for second year.

I think Bucs are a wildcard at least. As always, injuries will be a key factor.

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#50 : April 23, 2013, 11:52:38 AM

Using Prisco's logic (you don't trade draft picks for players coming off ACL tears....the Arizona Cardinals with the #13 pick in the 2012 NFL draft would have been foolish to trade the pick and a 2013 #3 to Minnesota for 27 year old running back Adrian Peterson, coming off an ACL/MCL tear suffered late in the 2011 season...because we all know that would too risky and they are better off with Floyd, the wide receiver from ND.

Hmmmm....I'm guessing if you could rewind a year, AZ would have done that trade in an instant.

It is rare that you have the opportunity to obtain a player who is widely considered to be the best at what he does.   Is there risk?  Sure.   But there's risk every time a player steps on to the field.  I would rather take a risk on a 27 year old player who has already demonstrated the ability to actually be the very best than on one who is coming out of college and whose worth is purely based on 'potential'.   

I wasn't sure how I felt about this trade until AFTER it happened...when I pictured Revis & Goldson in our secondary, all of a sudden our team didn't feel like it had so many glaring holes.   Revis doesn't just improve the CB position that he plays...he potentially improves the entire defense by his presence.   

As for the potential of a holdout...that always exists.   This guy just got PAID...and he continues to get paid as long as he plays at a high level.   There's not another CB in this league that is likely to sniff $16M a year any time soon...and probably no one else willing to pay it....so I expect to see DR in a Bucs uniform for the bulk of the six years barring another serious injury.

Morgan

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#51 : April 23, 2013, 12:01:28 PM

Tell you what. I'm bullish on the Bucs this season. Favorable schedule, lots of top players in their prime. Coaching staff in place for second year.

I think Bucs are a wildcard at least. As always, injuries will be a key factor.

agree 100% - and we know that a WC can win it all if they peak in Dec/Jan.

chace1986

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#52 : April 23, 2013, 12:06:40 PM

So a team that was in so many close games (Washington, Dallas, NYG, 1st New Orleans game, 1st ATL game, Philly game and the Denver game) with the league's worst pass defense and a weak pass rush and a streaky QB, is the 3rd worst team in the division after adding 2 Pro Bowlers in the secondary?

Sorry i don't buy it. Maybe I'm blinded by hate but I see Atlanta dropping off a bit, and the south coming down to Tampa and New Orleans.

I think Tampa showed that they will be competitive and will be an easy win for no one(on most weeks). Thing is, last year was last year. Different teams. Different circumstances. Until they prove otherwise, this team is still just a nice shiny bottle of potential. Adding talent doesn't always equal instant success. They still have to gel as a team and players still need to stay healthy. So we can sit here and count pro-bowl selections, all-pro selections, career stats, etc...but none of it matters until these players start playing at an elite level, while wearing a Bucs jersey.

You will also have people say that, "if you put better players on the '12 Bucs secondary, then it's an instant playoff team...". I don't necessarily agree with that. During games, opponents respond to each other according to the circumstances presented to them. You can't cherry pick certain plays from entire games and say that the outcome would have been different if you change this, this, and this play. It's impossible to know. Putting a different player on the field may have caused the offense to react in a different way resulting in the same outcome. Last year is in the books. In all likelihood, the Bucs are not going to be in the exact same situations that they were in last year. Schedule is tougher. Conference is tougher. Collectively, the offense and defense will have to consistently play good football for the entire year to make the playoffs. Our opponents now have a years worth of tape to study this offense and will most likely formulate some defensive gameplans that will make things a bit more challenging.

I don't think that Atlanta and New Orleans are a lot better from a talent standpoint, but they are both teams who have proven over the past few years that they can beat any team out there and they are dominant at home. Those are two areas we need to drastically improve upon, before we start talking about jumping one of them.

We prolly do not even finish 7-9 if we would just redo the 2012 season, could be 10-6, or 4-12. Doing nothing now, good or bad?

Still we should learn from the past. This TEAM was unable to stop any passing attack, especially late in the game, to hold on to any lead. 'Upgrades' at CB and FS should have major impact changing this fact.
Sure, maybe we will not asked to this often next year, for whatever reason, the offense putting up so many points or Freeman sucking so hard, we are not in contention after 1st half anyway, or just (bad) luck.(-> onsider kicks/ coin toss), maybe Revis and Goldson will still be part of the #31 pass defense.

So i just take the 'I think Tampa showed that they will be competitive and will be an easy win for no one(on most weeks)'.

I don't even know how to respond much to this.

"We prolly do not even finish 7-9 if we would just redo the 2012 season, could be 10-6, or 4-12. Doing nothing now, good or bad?"
....um..What?

"Sure, maybe we will not asked to this often next year, for whatever reason, the offense putting up so many points or Freeman sucking so hard, we are not in contention after 1st half anyway, or just (bad) luck.(-> onsider kicks/ coin toss), maybe Revis and Goldson will still be part of the #31 pass defense."....um....What?

"So i just take the 'I think Tampa showed that they will be competitive and will be an easy win for no one(on most weeks)'.".....um...What?

I'm honestly not even sure if you were commenting to agree with me, or if you were commenting to debate something from my post that you quoted.
: April 23, 2013, 12:10:47 PM chace1986


Until preseason, you stay classy Red Board.

GameTime

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#53 : April 23, 2013, 12:57:08 PM

But the Ravens won a Super Bowl with Cary Williams and Corey Graham starting at the corners.

It's a passing-pass rush league.

and yet why didnt prisco mention the pass rushers? 

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"

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#54 : April 23, 2013, 01:06:20 PM

Using Prisco's logic (you don't trade draft picks for players coming off ACL tears....the Arizona Cardinals with the #13 pick in the 2012 NFL draft would have been foolish to trade the pick and a 2013 #3 to Minnesota for 27 year old running back Adrian Peterson, coming off an ACL/MCL tear suffered late in the 2011 season...because we all know that would too risky and they are better off with Floyd, the wide receiver from ND.

Hmmmm....I'm guessing if you could rewind a year, AZ would have done that trade in an instant.
That would be a horrible move.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

The Anomaly

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#55 : April 23, 2013, 01:15:41 PM

This season will hinge on Josh Freeman.  Can he be consistent and steady?  Schiano's sell out defense will still get burned either way.  It's a college level defense being run in the NFL.  Revis won't change that.

Josh or bust.

We have a team that won the SB recently and another that played in the NFC title game last yr...does anyone think we SHOULD be expected more than third(since we haven't sniffed the playoffs in six years)?

Dolorous Jason

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#56 : April 23, 2013, 04:37:30 PM

This season will hinge on Josh Freeman.  Can he be consistent and steady?  Schiano's sell out defense will still get burned either way.  It's a college level defense being run in the NFL.  Revis won't change that.

Josh or bust.

We have a team that won the SB recently and another that played in the NFC title game last yr...does anyone think we SHOULD be expected more than third(since we haven't sniffed the playoffs in six years)?

Yes , becase "recently" and "last yr" doesn't mean dlck in this league , and this team is clearly on the rise.

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

gone

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#57 : April 23, 2013, 05:03:00 PM



they signed arguably one of the best corners ever to a non-garranteed contract.

Do YOU think revis would've signed anything that would let him get cut without any compensation, if he really didn't believe his knee was good?

Prisco refused to write that part in...wonder why? The only thing he talked about was no garrantee on revis and how the bucs will still suck again.

You need to get over the "no guarantee" thing pretty quick.  As soon as he can prove he is healthy that contract is getting renegotiated.  Hell, there isprobably already an agreement in principle on the details.


Morgan

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#58 : April 23, 2013, 07:44:11 PM



they signed arguably one of the best corners ever to a non-garranteed contract.

Do YOU think revis would've signed anything that would let him get cut without any compensation, if he really didn't believe his knee was good?

Prisco refused to write that part in...wonder why? The only thing he talked about was no garrantee on revis and how the bucs will still suck again.

You need to get over the "no guarantee" thing pretty quick.  As soon as he can prove he is healthy that contract is getting renegotiated.  Hell, there isprobably already an agreement in principle on the details.

we'll trade him back to the NYJ for TWO first round draft choices if that happens

Dolorous Jason

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#59 : April 23, 2013, 08:01:34 PM



they signed arguably one of the best corners ever to a non-garranteed contract.

Do YOU think revis would've signed anything that would let him get cut without any compensation, if he really didn't believe his knee was good?

Prisco refused to write that part in...wonder why? The only thing he talked about was no garrantee on revis and how the bucs will still suck again.

You need to get over the "no guarantee" thing pretty quick.  As soon as he can prove he is healthy that contract is getting renegotiated.  Hell, there isprobably already an agreement in principle on the details.

If that was the case then why not make it 3 year deal instead of 6 ?  Maybe he's good with earning his money as he goes ,  so long as he's earning top dollar like he deserves.

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           
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