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moose40

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#450 : September 08, 2013, 09:28:18 PM

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Josh didn't play well enough to win today.

Huh? He drove them for the winning field goal. By definition he played well enough to win. The team did not
what was he on that last drive? 1-4? If it wasn't for Vjax breaking a tackle and Martin finally breaking one, that field goal attempt probably doesn't happen.

moose40

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#451 : September 08, 2013, 09:30:33 PM

Sorry, the offense lost that game. Once again, offensive play calling and execution allowed an inferior opponent to beat the team.

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#452 : September 08, 2013, 09:48:06 PM

BUMP

Josh didn't play well enough to win today.

Huh? He drove them for the winning field goal. By definition he played well enough to win. The team did not
what was he on that last drive? 1-4? If it wasn't for Vjax breaking a tackle and Martin finally breaking one, that field goal attempt probably doesn't happen.

i wonder if you are aware of the double standard? The Bucs couldn't run all day and yet there are complaints all over these boards about Freeman, when he leads the team for a winning FG though, its broken down by play. Funny stuff.

Btw, one of those passes was to Ogletree right?

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#453 : September 08, 2013, 10:01:11 PM

Vin, Ogletree dropped two very catchable balls on the last drive, and we still got a FG...so it is not fair to blame Freeman for that. However, Freeman got outplayed by a rookie Geno Smith all day. We were only in that situation because we couldn't dominate what is probably the worst team in the league. There were many things wrong today, not just Freeman...but Freeman was part of the problem and we kept it close despite him, not because of him. They sold out verse the run all day and yet we couldnt get the passing game going. Stop the madness bro. Freeman sucks.


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#454 : September 08, 2013, 10:06:12 PM

There were many things wrong today, not just Freeman...but Freeman was part of the problem 

agree with that part, I think you missed where I came into the convo.  Freeman is what he is, but this was a team loss, coaches included

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#455 : September 08, 2013, 10:10:15 PM

Coaches definitely included. Sucks. I like Schiano and Co. Looking more and more like he is over his head though.


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#456 : September 08, 2013, 10:15:54 PM

Coaches definitely included. Sucks. I like Schiano and Co. Looking more and more like he is over his head though.

I am not a huge Free fan, more in the middle, but when a team comes out that unorganized it falls on the coach, particularly when the preseason was run according to the coach's plan

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gone

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#457 : September 08, 2013, 10:22:38 PM

Vin, Ogletree dropped two very catchable balls on the last drive, and we still got a FG...so it is not fair to blame Freeman for that. However, Freeman got outplayed by a rookie Geno Smith all day. We were only in that situation because we couldn't dominate what is probably the worst team in the league. There were many things wrong today, not just Freeman...but Freeman was part of the problem and we kept it close despite him, not because of him. They sold out verse the run all day and yet we couldnt get the passing game going. Stop the madness bro. Freeman sucks.

No it's not.  Ogletree sucks.  But by the same token, I'm not going to give Freeman "credit" for what was on short toss that VJax turned into a big gain after a missed tackle, and nice run by Doug.  It wasn't Freeman that "put us in position to win" on that drive.  It was Doug and VJax. 

Freeman wasn't solely responsible for this loss.  It's stupid to blame the entire failure of the offense purely on him.  But he also played like crap and he did not do what we need him to do if we want to win, especially against better teams.

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#458 : September 08, 2013, 10:24:11 PM

Vin, Ogletree dropped two very catchable balls on the last drive, and we still got a FG...so it is not fair to blame Freeman for that. However, Freeman got outplayed by a rookie Geno Smith all day. We were only in that situation because we couldn't dominate what is probably the worst team in the league. There were many things wrong today, not just Freeman...but Freeman was part of the problem and we kept it close despite him, not because of him. They sold out verse the run all day and yet we couldnt get the passing game going. Stop the madness bro. Freeman sucks.

No it's not.  Ogletree sucks.  But by the same token, I'm not going to give Freeman "credit" for what was on short toss that VJax turned into a big gain after a missed tackle, and nice run by Doug.  It wasn't Freeman that "put us in position to win" on that drive.  It was Doug and VJax. 

Freeman wasn't solely responsible for this loss.  It's stupid to blame the entire failure of the offense purely on him.  But he also played like crap and he did not do what we need him to do if we want to win, especially against better teams.

ROFLMAO

: September 08, 2013, 10:27:39 PM VinBucFan

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#459 : September 08, 2013, 10:44:35 PM

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Josh didn't play well enough to win today. This sounds like a broken record.
Yes - he did - needed one more stop from the d and it would have been a win.  Doesn't mean he played well - but he did better than the Oline, the TE and the RBs.

no - he didn't - needed one more score or first down from him and this would have been a win.  Doesn't mean nobody else played poorly, but he did not do what he needed to do to make this a win.

You are ignoring the opportunity cost of failed conversions and scoreless drives.  And people (not necessarily you) are trying to blame the defense.  The defense is what kept us in this game and made a win a possibility in spite of the horrible play of the offense.  Let's forget about the INT from Josh that gave the short field TD for a minute.  The Turnover on the five was for all reasonable purposes, a gimme.  That's 7 points from the defense.  And the 2 points from the safety can't be counted against the D.  So they essentially surrendered a net 9 points.  The O, without the major assist from the D, netted from their own efforts 8 points.  Even if you want to ignore the turnover on the 5, the defense still surrendered only 16 points, and the offense netted only 15. 

The Defense was NOT the culprit here.  That's like blaming the defense for the loss to the Rams in the championship game.

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#460 : September 08, 2013, 10:46:40 PM

no - he didn't - needed one more score or first down from him and this would have been a win.  Doesn't mean nobody else played poorly, but he did not do what he needed to do to make this a win.

You are ignoring the opportunity cost of failed conversions and scoreless drives.  And people (not necessarily you) are trying to blame the defense.  The defense is what kept us in this game and made a win a possibility in spite of the horrible play of the offense.  Let's forget about the INT from Josh that gave the short field TD for a minute.  The Turnover on the five was for all reasonable purposes, a gimme.  That's 7 points from the defense.  And the 2 points from the safety can't be counted against the D.  So they essentially surrendered a net 9 points.  The O, without the major assist from the D, netted from their own efforts 8 points.  Even if you want to ignore the turnover on the 5, the defense still surrendered only 16 points, and the offense netted only 15. 

The Defense was NOT the culprit here.  That's like blaming the defense for the loss to the Rams in the championship game.
somebody sticky this post.

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"

CalcuttaRain

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#461 : September 08, 2013, 10:51:01 PM

BUMP

Josh didn't play well enough to win today. This sounds like a broken record.
Yes - he did - needed one more stop from the d and it would have been a win.  Doesn't mean he played well - but he did better than the Oline, the TE and the RBs.

no - he didn't - needed one more score or first down from him and this would have been a win.  Doesn't mean nobody else played poorly, but he did not do what he needed to do to make this a win.

You are ignoring the opportunity cost of failed conversions and scoreless drives.  And people (not necessarily you) are trying to blame the defense.  The defense is what kept us in this game and made a win a possibility in spite of the horrible play of the offense.  Let's forget about the INT from Josh that gave the short field TD for a minute.  The Turnover on the five was for all reasonable purposes, a gimme.  That's 7 points from the defense.  And the 2 points from the safety can't be counted against the D.  So they essentially surrendered a net 9 points.  The O, without the major assist from the D, netted from their own efforts 8 points.  Even if you want to ignore the turnover on the 5, the defense still surrendered only 16 points, and the offense netted only 15. 

The Defense was NOT the culprit here.  That's like blaming the defense for the loss to the Rams in the championship game.

"Die you pass thrower!!!"


Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

moose40

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#462 : September 09, 2013, 08:26:38 AM

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Josh didn't play well enough to win today.

Huh? He drove them for the winning field goal. By definition he played well enough to win. The team did not
what was he on that last drive? 1-4? If it wasn't for Vjax breaking a tackle and Martin finally breaking one, that field goal attempt probably doesn't happen.

i wonder if you are aware of the double standard? The Bucs couldn't run all day and yet there are complaints all over these boards about Freeman, when he leads the team for a winning FG though, its broken down by play. Funny stuff.

Btw, one of those passes was to Ogletree right?

Vin, I think you and I are somewhat in agreement. Freeman isn't totally to blame, but he isn't blameless either. Playcalling, execution, and moments of brainfarts caused this loss.

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#463 : September 09, 2013, 09:30:02 AM

 "By definition he played well enough to win."

We lost. You may want to look that definition up again.

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#464 : September 09, 2013, 09:39:21 AM

Vin, Ogletree dropped two very catchable balls on the last drive, and we still got a FG...so it is not fair to blame Freeman for that. However, Freeman got outplayed by a rookie Geno Smith all day. We were only in that situation because we couldn't dominate what is probably the worst team in the league. There were many things wrong today, not just Freeman...but Freeman was part of the problem and we kept it close despite him, not because of him. They sold out verse the run all day and yet we couldnt get the passing game going. Stop the madness bro. Freeman sucks.

Freeman just played against the Jets pass defenes(#2in Yards, 7th in QBR and 10th in TD last year). Maybe he also should have testesd their run defense, but he(Schiano?) selected otherwise. The horrible offense of the Jets (17.5 points per game last year) just defined how many points he had to put on the board with his offense, else he did not play against them and could 'pad' his stats against.

We talked the whole off season about how bad Freeman is (just a back up caliber QB) and anyone really expected him to beat the Jets without any running game and below average pass protection with Vjax and MW(who dissapeared for most of the game aswell) alone...without a TE, without a 3rd or 4th WR?

Serioulsy, we are not just one QB away from the promised land.
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