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JDouble

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#30 : May 05, 2013, 05:08:06 PM


In this system, it seems as though Schiano wants LBers and DB blitzing, rather than continuously counting on the front four. So to me, it becomes more of a question as to whether or not DE is all that important in this system.


Maybe, but I don't know any 4-3 system that has ever worked that way. In a 4-3 it has always comes down to getting pressure with the front four.


JDouble

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#31 : May 05, 2013, 05:11:20 PM

If Clayborn and Bowers can stay healthy and get 8-10 sacks each....then everyone will be happy.....so fingers crossed!


Skull and Bones

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#32 : May 05, 2013, 05:14:29 PM


In this system, it seems as though Schiano wants LBers and DB blitzing, rather than continuously counting on the front four. So to me, it becomes more of a question as to whether or not DE is all that important in this system.


Maybe, but I don't know any 4-3 system that has ever worked that way. In a 4-3 it has always comes down to getting pressure with the front four.
sgreed.  If you want to run a 3-4 then run a 3-4.


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#33 : May 05, 2013, 05:16:17 PM

He looked like crisp those two games as a pass rusher. 


gone

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#34 : May 05, 2013, 09:19:23 PM

Pass rush doesn't win games, teams with a pass rush do.

fixt

jerseybucsfan

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#35 : May 05, 2013, 11:26:30 PM

1. I love it the way every time a poster tries to be realistic, they are bashed for being too negative. Wishing and hoping won't make the problems go away.
2. Clayborn looked good in the first two games? You mean when Eli threw over 50 times and got zero pressure on him at all?
3. Addressed does not equal solved. Hoping Bowers can be as good as Bennett means we'll have a pass rush as good as our lousy pass rush last year. The premise that a strength will be wasted without a better rush is something many of us have stated in other threads. Some of you think that shouting them down will answer the problem.
I think we can all agree that our total defense will be better because of the secondary upgrades. But to what degree? We want it to be undeniably the best in the division, do we not? And yet if we cannot generate substantially more pressure, it will be hard to make that claim.
Brees is a future Hall of Famer. Ryan is quite good. I wanna beat these turkeys as much as the next guy. And to have doubt about Gholston and Means, not to mention the returnees, is realistic. I'd love to have a Freeney or an Abraham while these guys learn. Without that, we could unnecessarily finish third.

In Verner We Trust

CalcuttaRain

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#36 : May 05, 2013, 11:38:24 PM

I'd love to have a Freeney or an Abraham while these guys learn. Without that, we could unnecessarily finish third.

Freeney 2012:  12 tackles, 5 sacks

DTN 2012:  40 tackles, 4 sacks

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Benchwarmer#1

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#37 : May 06, 2013, 12:05:34 AM


In this system, it seems as though Schiano wants LBers and DB blitzing, rather than continuously counting on the front four. So to me, it becomes more of a question as to whether or not DE is all that important in this system.


Maybe, but I don't know any 4-3 system that has ever worked that way. In a 4-3 it has always comes down to getting pressure with the front four.

That's where I start to think why revis and goldson were so important to Dom and Schiano to obtain. They want to be able to stack the line without getting beaten to death on the outs. And that can't happen without revis and goldson (or at least some other talented players).

Regardless, it seems like a college system. NOT that it's bad, (because change can be good)but that it's not tried and true in the NFL. I believe Schiano can make it work, especially now, but he's got to cut the "dropping DE's into coverage" crap and stop being too aggressive in his calls against the run. Let the players play their natural position.

For crying out loud, you have a nearly 250lbs man faced in a "takeoff" position, but you expect him to get up, avoid getting knocked around by the line, turn and run, and then find his guy and cover well? Seems like a fish out of water to me.

If Schiano can quit with those lamebrain ideas, and focus solely on point a to b, the defense will have more opportunities to get sacks and picks. I like his creativity, but the old, "go kill the QB" still works even today. Creating confusion is great, as long as it's not confusing you more than the other guy.


Naismith was right about Revis. Everyone else is a dummy.

jerseybucsfan

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#38 : May 06, 2013, 12:15:32 AM

I'd love to have a Freeney or an Abraham while these guys learn. Without that, we could unnecessarily finish third.

Freeney 2012:  12 tackles, 5 sacks

DTN 2012:  40 tackles, 4 sacks
Right. And so using this logic, DTN is better, right?
Freeney had his ankle rolled over early in the season. He played hurt for much of the year. At the end of the year he was healthy and had sacks in three consecutive games. He had 8.5 sacks in 2011. With Freeney in the rotation, the Bucs would probably get 25 sacks out of Bowers/Clayborn/Freeney. Will we get that many out of Bowers/Clayborn/DTN? IMHO DTN will not exceed his four sacks of 2012.

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bucs4eva

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#39 : May 06, 2013, 12:23:05 AM

The Bucs dealt with the primary position of need with the first and second round picks - defensive back.  In the third round the dealt with another gaping hole at back up QB.  In the forth and fifth rounds they dealt with the defensive line.  Where is the gripe?  It's not like they had 5 picks in the first 2 rounds.  They worked with what they had.  You may not like the D line picks, but you can't say they didn't address them as timely as possible.

+1


The Franchi5e

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#40 : May 06, 2013, 02:21:54 AM

We've had 50 combined sacks in the last two seasons which is easily the worst in the NFL. Outside of a 5th round flyer on Means, we did zero to improve that pass rush. In fact, we let our best pass rusher go in free agency. Any fan that doesn't see this as a potential problem, must have their head in the sand.

You have to factor in that Clayborn (our sack leader from the previous year) was basically out the whole year and Bowers (our most talented and highest potential pass rusher) came back more than halfway through the year earlier than expected from an Achilles tear. I think Means, even though he's a rookie 5th rounder, will turn out to be a very nice addition to our pass rush. Akeem Spence is also a much more talented player than Roy Miller...I really like him and see him being a big contributor to the line. You also get the sense that with the accomplishments that McCoy has received over this past year that he's a more mature and focused player and has his eyes on one thing...the Lombardi Trophy. He seems to me like the guy we've always wanted him to become.

And most importantly, it's not discussed enough how much bringing in guys like Revis and Goldson completely change the mindset of an entire organization. With moves like that you go from "young team with potential" to "Super Bowl contender" very, very quickly. That's what this team/organization has it's sights on and that alone has upped the confidence and comrardery of every player on this team.

For the record though I wouldn't be opposed to bringing in Freeney if he would take a one or two year deal and be cool with his role as just a situational pass rusher.

chace1986

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#41 : May 06, 2013, 03:11:18 AM

1. I love it the way every time a poster tries to be realistic, they are bashed for being too negative. Wishing and hoping won't make the problems go away.
2. Clayborn looked good in the first two games? You mean when Eli threw over 50 times and got zero pressure on him at all?
3. Addressed does not equal solved. Hoping Bowers can be as good as Bennett means we'll have a pass rush as good as our lousy pass rush last year. The premise that a strength will be wasted without a better rush is something many of us have stated in other threads. Some of you think that shouting them down will answer the problem.
I think we can all agree that our total defense will be better because of the secondary upgrades. But to what degree? We want it to be undeniably the best in the division, do we not? And yet if we cannot generate substantially more pressure, it will be hard to make that claim.
Brees is a future Hall of Famer. Ryan is quite good. I wanna beat these turkeys as much as the next guy. And to have doubt about Gholston and Means, not to mention the returnees, is realistic. I'd love to have a Freeney or an Abraham while these guys learn. Without that, we could unnecessarily finish third.

Excellent post.

Seems people still don't grasp how important it is to have a good DE rotation in a 4-3. Also, to the comment that Bennett has been overrated, sure. The fans that did want him to stay overstated his play a bit, but that certainly does not mean that Bennett did not have a pretty impactful season last year. He made his presence felt in nearly every single game. I also agree with J-Dub on the opinion of, "who says Bowers would have started over Bennett?". Bowers hasn't exactly lit it up when he has seen playing time.

I think adding Abraham would pretty much nullify the loss of Bennett. He played less snaps than Bennett last year and was just as productive. We have been at the bottom of the league over the last 5 years when it comes to getting pressure on the QB. It should be a definite area of concern considering that they are no guys on the DE rotation that have shown to be a consistent pass rushing force. They are pretty much just a bunch of guys with potential...and potential=uncertainty. Lyron, sorry but Clayborn was not looking good through his first 10 quarters of play. He was pretty much nullified completely by the opposing OLmen.

Bowers can make the same impact Bennett did if not better. Just having clayborn back with Proven backups is good enough. Not to mention Safety's can roam with Revis on the field.

Bowers has shown nothing that backs this opinion up. Sure, we hope that either one of these guys can equal the production lost, but it is certainly not going to be as easy as you state here. Bennett brought more than just sacks. He had a good amount of TFLs, he accounted for about a third of the Bucs total QB pressures, and he was very good against the run and was very good at doing his job in gab control.

So while I do like the fact that the Bucs used 3 picks on the DL, there still could have/could be something else added during FA. I'm fine with rolling with Clayborn and Bowers as the starting DEs, but the 3rd DE will see nearly as many snaps as the 2nd DE, so that player needs to be a higher quality pass rusher than DTN. DTN from a pass rushing standpoint was mediocre last year. He was more of a run stuffing DE. Who knows, maybe the young guys step it up, but I certainly don't think it is out of bounds to question whether this collection of DEs can get after the QB enough off the edges. Very valid concern.
: May 06, 2013, 03:16:47 AM chace1986


CyberDilemma

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#42 : May 06, 2013, 04:28:28 AM


How many sacks did the Bucs have last year against Philly?   How many yards did Philly throw for?   Point is front 4 and back 4 can only do so much by themselves, they need to do it together.   Or have a first ballot hall of fame DT who can rush the passer and a tall beastly DE who averages over 10 sacks a game.  I will be interested to see how an all-pro CB and safety improve tis defense.

Why, yes....yes, that would be quite a beastly DE.

Bucman

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#43 : May 06, 2013, 05:13:39 AM

**CENSORED** 10 sacks a game!


Skull and Bones

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#44 : May 06, 2013, 06:10:01 AM

The Bucs dealt with the primary position of need with the first and second round picks - defensive back.  In the third round the dealt with another gaping hole at back up QB.  In the forth and fifth rounds they dealt with the defensive line.  Where is the gripe?  It's not like they had 5 picks in the first 2 rounds.  They worked with what they had.  You may not like the D line picks, but you can't say they didn't address them as timely as possible.

+1
do we lost two starters and replaced them with 4th and 5th round guys.  Not only are the odds that any of these 3 becoming solid starters are very low but the highest drafted guy came out early and I imagine could take some time to develop just to get to the point Miller was at and his upside really isn't significantly greater.  Sure these picks could be considered good depth picks which are what these rounds are really for but not as replacements or upgrades to starters.  Personally I thought we could have used the 3rd rounder on a guy who would contribute more to this team and even though I don't dislike the Banks pick maybe the value would have been better addressing the DL in the 2nd and picking up a CB a round or two later.  Signing Freeney would make me more confident as well.  It's great we addressed the secondary but no other area of this team got better. 

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