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JDouble

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#45 : May 06, 2013, 08:18:16 AM

1. I love it the way every time a poster tries to be realistic, they are bashed for being too negative. Wishing and hoping won't make the problems go away.
2. Clayborn looked good in the first two games? You mean when Eli threw over 50 times and got zero pressure on him at all?
3. Addressed does not equal solved. Hoping Bowers can be as good as Bennett means we'll have a pass rush as good as our lousy pass rush last year. The premise that a strength will be wasted without a better rush is something many of us have stated in other threads. Some of you think that shouting them down will answer the problem.
I think we can all agree that our total defense will be better because of the secondary upgrades. But to what degree? We want it to be undeniably the best in the division, do we not? And yet if we cannot generate substantially more pressure, it will be hard to make that claim.
Brees is a future Hall of Famer. Ryan is quite good. I wanna beat these turkeys as much as the next guy. And to have doubt about Gholston and Means, not to mention the returnees, is realistic. I'd love to have a Freeney or an Abraham while these guys learn. Without that, we could unnecessarily finish third.

+1

Can't even point out and discuss a realistic concern without half the board labeling you a troll and claiming the issue doesn't even exist.


Clayborn was surprisingly good as a rookie. He's not a speed rusher by any means, but he was pretty effective with his non stop motor. However, in 2012 he did not look good at all in the first 2 1/2 games before his injury. He had one tackle and zero sacks and his pass rush was non existent. That's not to say he now sucks, but it is a concern. My concern with Clayborn has always been the same. He is not a speed rusher, which is usually what you have at RE in a 4-3. Now he is coming back from a major knee injury and there is no telling how effective he will be. This is a huge question mark....but many will say there is no concern.

Bowers was an explosive speed rusher in college. Then he had the knee injury, which will supposedly get worse with time, and then he tore his Achilles. Now he looked pretty solid at the end of last year and my hopes are high, but right now, after two years in the league....he is an unproven injury prone dud. There is no denying we have not gotten the return you want on a pass rusher taken in the 2nd round over his first two years. Fingers crossed he is 100% healthy all year and has a break out season, but that is just a hope and nothing even close to a sure thing. Again, many say there is no concern.

Then, in the middle we have McCoy, who was also a dud his first two years due to injury, but looked very good last year. As long as he stays healthy he seems like a good bet to be a very good player for us....IF he can stay healthy. Behind McCoy we have a bunch of nose tackles with zero pass rush.

So this is the reality of the situation. Many posters want you to hang you just for pointing out reality, but living in denial is not my thing. In the end, whether we fans have no worries or are freaking out...it has no effect on what we do this season. So fingers crossed everything works out and we have a pass rush in 2013. Maybe we can record 30 sacks for the first time since 2007.


jerseybucsfan

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#46 : May 06, 2013, 09:37:45 AM

The Bucs dealt with the primary position of need with the first and second round picks - defensive back.  In the third round the dealt with another gaping hole at back up QB.  In the forth and fifth rounds they dealt with the defensive line.  Where is the gripe?  It's not like they had 5 picks in the first 2 rounds.  They worked with what they had.  You may not like the D line picks, but you can't say they didn't address them as timely as possible.

+1
do we lost two starters and replaced them with 4th and 5th round guys.  Not only are the odds that any of these 3 becoming solid starters are very low but the highest drafted guy came out early and I imagine could take some time to develop just to get to the point Miller was at and his upside really isn't significantly greater.  Sure these picks could be considered good depth picks which are what these rounds are really for but not as replacements or upgrades to starters.  Personally I thought we could have used the 3rd rounder on a guy who would contribute more to this team and even though I don't dislike the Banks pick maybe the value would have been better addressing the DL in the 2nd and picking up a CB a round or two later.  Signing Freeney would make me more confident as well.  It's great we addressed the secondary but no other area of this team got better.
Humbly disagree on one point. I like our depth better on slot receiver. But other than that, +1

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bradentonian

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#47 : May 06, 2013, 09:46:48 AM

I thought AC looked out of shape last year before he got hurt


GameTime

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#48 : May 06, 2013, 11:23:22 AM

do we lost two starters and replaced them with 4th and 5th round guys. 
this is completely untrue.

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GameTime

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#49 : May 06, 2013, 11:26:06 AM

Pass rush doesn't win games, teams with a pass rush do.

fixt

and what really is pass rush?  is it sacks?  is it pressures as defined by PFF?  is it something you just have to "see"?

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GameTime

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#50 : May 06, 2013, 11:31:25 AM

Can't even point out and discuss a realistic concern without half the board labeling you a troll and claiming the issue doesn't even exist.
some fans are jerks, yet some just dont believe pass rush is the huge issue others believe it to be.  can pass rush even be measured?
Bowers was an explosive speed rusher in college. Then he had the knee injury,
what weight did bowers play at in college?  and what was his knee injury?
So this is the reality of the situation. Many posters want you to hang you just for pointing out reality, but living in denial is not my thing. In the end, whether we fans have no worries or are freaking out...it has no effect on what we do this season. So fingers crossed everything works out and we have a pass rush in 2013. Maybe we can record 30 sacks for the first time since 2007.
living in denial or living in fear?  i do agree with the fact it has no effect on the team.  and my fingers are crossed with you.

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"

BucBalla85

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#51 : May 06, 2013, 12:01:32 PM

I think if anybody isnt at least concerned about our DEs and pass rush has really got some confidence going. They arent alone though, seems like our staff and FO tend to agree as well. Im definitely concerned about it. The guys we have there now have been hurt recently. Even when healthy they didnt produce much. I understand the pass D is improved and that should help but still these guys have not produced enough to make me feel confident that it will improve. Getting Clayborn and Bowers back healthy will be huge but at what level are they capable of playing for us? Are they going to be able to generate the pass rush this team needs to beat some of these high powered offenses in this league? It may be too early to tell because theres still a lot of time before preseason starts and we wont know how they look until they play the games. So maybe they will pick up somebody but from the looks and sounds of it, they are comfortable with the guys they got. Hopefully its the right move.
: May 06, 2013, 12:14:27 PM BucBalla85

BucNY

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#52 : May 06, 2013, 12:06:56 PM

The impact will be greatly reduced without a pass rush.  Yes I believe that and do does Sapp.

No it won't. The talent level is much higher and don't sit there and tell me we're screwed without Bennett's 8 sacks when Clayborn was also out. In my mind Bowers and Clayborn is better than Bennett and DTN were last year.

I like Sapp but he is a typical ex-player turned broadcaster. The lineman say you need a better line, the WR says you need more receivers, he is very subjective. Obviously  our entire defense needs to work together but don't act like Revis, Goldson and Banks aren't heads and shoulders better than Johnson, Gorrer and a Black on 3rd down passing downs.

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GameTime

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#53 : May 06, 2013, 12:15:14 PM

Getting Clayborn and Bowers back healthy will be huge but at what level are they capable of playing for us?
  this seems like an oxymoron to me.

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BucBalla85

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#54 : May 06, 2013, 12:23:14 PM

Getting Clayborn and Bowers back healthy will be huge but at what level are they capable of playing for us?
  this seems like an oxymoron to me.

Well it should be huge because were getting back our first and second round draft picks. But will it be?? We dont know because Clayborn hasnt played in a year and Bowers was hurt for most of it. The additions in the secondary should help sure but Im still worried about Clayborn and Bowers getting to the QB. Mostly because I havent seen them play with this defense yet and also they werent generating that much before anyways. Its one of those things we will have to see when the games start. Im sure it will be debated until then if they dont pick anybody up.

chace1986

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#55 : May 06, 2013, 12:23:38 PM

I think if anybody isnt at least concerned about our DEs and pass rush has really got some confidence going. They arent alone though, seems like our staff and FO tend to agree as well. Im definitely concerned about it. The guys we have there now have been hurt recently. Even when healthy they didnt produce much. I understand the pass D is improved and that should help but still these guys have not produced enough to make me feel confident that it will improve. Getting Clayborn and Bowers back healthy will be huge but at what level are they capable of playing for us? Are they going to be able to generate the pass rush this team needs to beat some of these high powered offenses in this league? It may be too early to tell because theres still a lot of time before preseason starts and we wont know how they look until they play the games. So maybe they will pick up somebody but from the looks and sounds of it, they are comfortable with the guys they got. Hopefully its the right move.

Good post.

I understand that because of where they were picked and the hype behind Bowers leading up the draft, that there are some lofty expectations of what these two DEs can do. At the same time, they really have not looked like studs since they have been in a Bucs uni. They definitely are going to have to step up, but I don't see what is leading people to think that they will be impactful DEs other than just blind faith. Sure we all hope for the best, but there are certainly valid concerns.

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