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freddy

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#60 : May 08, 2013, 12:48:04 PM

Lets sum this up very nicely please.

Skull and FRG, are the two of you claiming that if the Bucs sign Abrham or Freeney, then the Bucs are true SB contenders this year?


BTW Skull, that CB will be on the team for 6 years, not just one like Freeney or Abraham. The CB is a long term investment, F and A are not.
It doesn't matter if I think they're contenders or not. What matters is the GM is going into the fifth season of his rebuild with no playoff appearances and is spending a crap ton of money on a handful of high profile players all hovering around 28-30 years old. They're not going to play a high level forever and some of them are going to have to go in order to give raises to Josh Freeman, Mike Williams, and others down the road. If the Bucs aren't trying to maximize their assets this year when their established players should be at their athletic peaks and their younger players are all still on cheap contracts, when will they? When Dashon Goldson, Vincent Jackson, and Davin Joseph are 32?

So the answer is to pay 5+ million for a 35 year old DE who is coming off an injury that nobody else in the league thinks is worth it either? Your point above is solid and I agree. Abraham is just not the answer that you make him out to be.  The one year rental of Abraham will not settle the problem you stated.
: May 08, 2013, 12:51:38 PM Freddy

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#61 : May 08, 2013, 01:05:49 PM

If it's for a one year cap-space hit(which won't get used unless carried over), a DE that is good/great, a vet, and can let Bowers be worked into a rotation.....you bet your ass Fred.

Naismith was right about Revis. Everyone else is a dummy.

freddy

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#62 : May 08, 2013, 01:14:46 PM

If it's for a one year cap-space hit(which won't get used unless carried over), a DE that is good/great, a vet, and can let Bowers be worked into a rotation.....you bet your ass Fred.

Do you have one in mind? Abraham was good/great, but is also coming off an injury, wants too much money (that could be better used to sign Williams to an extension), is not interested in being a team player and is not even an item of interest to teams with even greater needs at DE.  If you want Bowers to be the starter in the future, then just let him start. In fact, by not letting Bowers start, this time next year, you will still have the same question. Can Bowers start and handle a full year? The only way we will ever find out if Bowers can do the job is if we give him the job.
: May 08, 2013, 01:17:31 PM Freddy

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#63 : May 08, 2013, 02:04:25 PM

No surprise


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#64 : May 08, 2013, 02:08:31 PM

i apologize for not reading the entire thread, but it seems it came down to team chemistry, something that is undervalued imo.

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"

chace1986

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#65 : May 08, 2013, 02:20:21 PM

If it's for a one year cap-space hit(which won't get used unless carried over), a DE that is good/great, a vet, and can let Bowers be worked into a rotation.....you bet your ass Fred.

Do you have one in mind? Abraham was good/great, but is also coming off an injury, wants too much money (that could be better used to sign Williams to an extension), is not interested in being a team player and is not even an item of interest to teams with even greater needs at DE.  If you want Bowers to be the starter in the future, then just let him start. In fact, by not letting Bowers start, this time next year, you will still have the same question. Can Bowers start and handle a full year? The only way we will ever find out if Bowers can do the job is if we give him the job.

That's not exactly true. If we ran things like Cincinnati did last year, we could have all 3 DEs see the field around 60%+ of the plays.

The 3rd DE will see the field quite often. His value is nearly as high as the #2DE. A 4-3 DE might just be the highest rotated position in the league.

Cincinnati's DEs.
Michael D. Johnson - played 79% of eligible snaps
Carlos Dunlap - played 63% of eligible snaps
Geathers - played 59% of eligible snaps



freddy

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#66 : May 08, 2013, 02:32:39 PM

If it's for a one year cap-space hit(which won't get used unless carried over), a DE that is good/great, a vet, and can let Bowers be worked into a rotation.....you bet your ass Fred.

Do you have one in mind? Abraham was good/great, but is also coming off an injury, wants too much money (that could be better used to sign Williams to an extension), is not interested in being a team player and is not even an item of interest to teams with even greater needs at DE.  If you want Bowers to be the starter in the future, then just let him start. In fact, by not letting Bowers start, this time next year, you will still have the same question. Can Bowers start and handle a full year? The only way we will ever find out if Bowers can do the job is if we give him the job.

That's not exactly true. If we ran things like Cincinnati did last year, we could have all 3 DEs see the field around 60%+ of the plays.

The 3rd DE will see the field quite often. His value is nearly as high as the #2DE. A 4-3 DE might just be the highest rotated position in the league.

Cincinnati's DEs.
Michael D. Johnson - played 79% of eligible snaps
Carlos Dunlap - played 63% of eligible snaps
Geathers - played 59% of eligible snaps

Might I ask where you got those stats from? And what was Abrahams percentage last year?
: May 08, 2013, 02:39:41 PM Freddy

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#67 : May 08, 2013, 02:46:57 PM

Abraham played 71% of the defensive snaps last season... and 80% of the snaps in the NFCCG against the 49ers.

We will be Carolina ready when we are Carolina ready.

chace1986

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#68 : May 08, 2013, 02:47:07 PM

If it's for a one year cap-space hit(which won't get used unless carried over), a DE that is good/great, a vet, and can let Bowers be worked into a rotation.....you bet your ass Fred.

Do you have one in mind? Abraham was good/great, but is also coming off an injury, wants too much money (that could be better used to sign Williams to an extension), is not interested in being a team player and is not even an item of interest to teams with even greater needs at DE.  If you want Bowers to be the starter in the future, then just let him start. In fact, by not letting Bowers start, this time next year, you will still have the same question. Can Bowers start and handle a full year? The only way we will ever find out if Bowers can do the job is if we give him the job.

That's not exactly true. If we ran things like Cincinnati did last year, we could have all 3 DEs see the field around 60%+ of the plays.

The 3rd DE will see the field quite often. His value is nearly as high as the #2DE. A 4-3 DE might just be the highest rotated position in the league.

Cincinnati's DEs.
Michael D. Johnson - played 79% of eligible snaps
Carlos Dunlap - played 63% of eligible snaps
Geathers - played 59% of eligible snaps

Might I ask where you got those stats from? And what was Abrahams percentage last year?

profootballfocus.com

& Abraham played 69.2% of eligible snaps.

: May 08, 2013, 02:59:24 PM chace1986


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#69 : May 08, 2013, 02:53:18 PM

Shoot - Glennon could add 80 pounds and be an LDE!

We don't need no stinkin' JA or DF.  ;)

Who knew how good it would feel as a fan when we now know what it\'s like for our team to have a direction, an attitude, and dare I say an offense?.  

Good time to be a Bucs fan.

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#70 : May 08, 2013, 03:11:29 PM

    Excellent article!
    Apparently we already gave them "a look" and didn't like what we saw.... The same seems to hold true throughout the NFL...

freddy

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#71 : May 08, 2013, 03:21:26 PM

profootballfocus.com

& Abraham played 69.2% of eligible snaps.


Abraham got a sack roughly every 40 times he rushed the passer.


OK then, somebodys stats are a little screwy then. According to NFL.com Atlanta faced 551 passing plays and 411 running plays for a total of 962 plays. If he played 69.2% of 962, then that is what about 665 plays. FRG says Abraham gets a sack roughly every 40 plays. 10 sacks at a sack every 40 plays, means he played 400 downs. 10 sacks over 665 plays is 1 sack every 66.5 plays. I'm not sure how 66.5 is roughly 40.

Maybe FRG was just talking Passing plays (But it still wouldn't be 1 per 40)? Is your 69% total defensive snaps or passing/rushing? If FRG's numbers are correct and Abraham only played 69% of 551 passing plays (numbers are close) then what was his play percentage on running downs?

I think this shows how selectively used stats can help support any opinion you can think of. Doesn't make it true though.

The real facts are, Abrahams playing time was reduced last year due to injury concerns. He was injured in the last game and rather useless in the playoffs. Right now, IMHO, he is all about himself and not any team he may join. People here worry about Bowers getting hurt despite the fact he played the 2nd half of the year with no problems at all. He is fully recovered. So then they want a 35 year old player that has been on the IR multiple times and that no one (at least on this board, but maybe the teams that had him for a visit then declined his services do) knows if he has even recovered from his injury, to take his place. 

Abraham MIGHT be healthy and MIGHT be good again this year. Big mights. Especially since you want to replace a healthy player who might get injured with an injured played who might be healty.  At 5+ mil to boot. Get Abraham for 2m or less and let Abraham be the rotational player, then I can live with that. Not a 5+mil year starter.
: May 08, 2013, 03:24:36 PM Freddy

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#72 : May 08, 2013, 03:43:26 PM

He was on the field for 806 snaps. That includes playoffs. He was on the field for 463 plays where he rushed the passer. That's a sack every 46.3 plays where he rushed the passer.

You keep talking about Abraham's injuries last year, but he played on over 50% of their snaps in every game except for the divisional round of the playoffs.

I think most rational people can except the fact that the Bucs didn't want him because he would be a cancer, but there is not ll reason to take it beyond that and try to pretend that he wouldn't be all that effective wince he wasn't very good last year....because that isn't accurate.


freddy

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#73 : May 08, 2013, 04:02:04 PM

He was on the field for 806 snaps. That includes playoffs. He was on the field for 463 plays where he rushed the passer. That's a sack every 46.3 plays where he rushed the passer.

You keep talking about Abraham's injuries last year, but he played on over 50% of their snaps in every game except for the divisional round of the playoffs.

I think most rational people can except the fact that the Bucs didn't want him because he would be a cancer, but there is not ll reason to take it beyond that and try to pretend that he wouldn't be all that effective wince he wasn't very good last year....because that isn't accurate.

Can't be inaccurate about something I never said. Please show me where I said he wasn't very good last year. I didn't. Why do you feel the need to add something that simply wasn't said to defend your position? Lets try to stick with what is actually said here please.

BTW, 10 sacks is a pretty good year, for anyone.

But since he got his 10th sack, he has been injured, played poorly in the playoffs as a result of that injury, was cut for a second time by his team, has visited several teams who had a "look see" and every one of those teams have said no thanks to his services so far. Tenn does appear to be slightly interested now but we'll see how that turns out.

So yes, very much so, injury, especially at age 35, is a BIG concern with Abraham. If he is healthy and if he can remain healthy I think he can be a decent/good maybe even great player next year. But it does not solve any of the teams problems, it just pushes the real problem of having a true DE, LONGTERM, one more year into the future. And we do not need an injured player who might be healthy in case a healthy player might get injured for 5+ mil a year.


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#74 : May 08, 2013, 04:19:51 PM

Sweet so we can have Aaron Morgan and Steven Means starting at DE after a couple of injuries.

The Buccaneers front office has more information than you.  They don't make mistakes.

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