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JDouble

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#180 : May 15, 2013, 07:30:54 AM

I think Garcon can be a #1, so does Washington, that's why he's getting paid. 

You do realize that in five years, Garcon has never had 1000 yard season or more than 6 TDs.....right? So how in the world is he a viable #1 and Mike is not?


Holmes is a bit overpaid, but his inept coach and QB are the biggest problems there, not Holmes. 

But Mike doesn't get this same benefit in 2011?


Rice, when healthy, has performed like a true #1.  The problem is, he isn't healthy very often. 

Rice had one good year in 2009. In his other five seasons, he has averaged 29 receptions for 410 yards and 3 TDs. In what world is that "playing like a #1"?

Sorry bro, but you are being biased. I don't even think it's on purpose, but you have a case of the GrassisAlwaysGreener blues. If Pierre Garcon was on our team and Mike Williams wasn't, you'd be saying that Garcon is not on the same level as Mike Williams....which would actually be true.


JDouble

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#181 : May 15, 2013, 07:45:50 AM

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/0ap2000000169213/Debate-Best-receiving-corps-in-NFL?campaign=Twitter_nfln_videos


1Va bucsfan

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#182 : May 15, 2013, 08:23:36 AM

God, people are over-analyzing this to the nth degree.  Screw what other teams may or may not be doing.  We have a chance to lock down two of the most forgiving WRs in the game, and we have a QB who needs those catch radii, and if he fails, we have a rook who is perfectly suited to take advantage of them as well.  We finally have a true 1 & 2 WR combo, something many other teams haven't had in years (just like we hadn't).  And yet you guys are going to pick nits over statistical differences that in the scheme of things amount to rounding errors with delusions of grandeur?



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#183 : May 15, 2013, 10:04:43 AM

I think Garcon can be a #1, so does Washington, that's why he's getting paid. 

You do realize that in five years, Garcon has never had 1000 yard season or more than 6 TDs.....right? So how in the world is he a viable #1 and Mike is not?

That's because he was the #2 behind Wayne.  Look how Garcon's numbers increased and compared to Wayne after Manning left... they're virtually identical, and that's with scrap heap QB's.  Manning always had his favorites.  Look at Wayne's career.  Look how slow he started.  It took until after 3 years with Manning before Peyton really started to utilize Wayne.

Garcon's 2nd year with Manning... 67/784/6  Waynes 3rd year with Manning... 68/838/7

The reason I don't think Williams can be a #1 is the drop off in production from 2010 to 2011 after teams adjusted to him.  Like I said before, it's a small sample size, but it's all we have to go on.



Holmes is a bit overpaid, but his inept coach and QB are the biggest problems there, not Holmes. 

But Mike doesn't get this same benefit in 2011?

No, I just don't think Williams is as dynamic as Holmes.  I think Holmes is better... though not by much, which is why I think he's a bit over paid.  I'd give him about $7.5-8M per year, definitely not $9M.  I'd give Williams about $6.5-$7M, so like I said before, I think he's better... but only a bit.  I keep saying it but, just because one team wants to overpay a player, it doesn't mean the Bucs should.

You also need to remember that a lot of the guys you're bringing up like Holmes, Rice, and Garcon, is that they actually hit free agency and had teams bidding on them.  Hopefully, Williams doesn't.  When you re-sign with a team, you get more money now, in exchange for later.  Meaning, instead of Williams making say, $8/$9M per year, he makes about $6.5... BUT, instead of making $400K this year, he makes $6.5M.  It's give and take.



Rice, when healthy, has performed like a true #1.  The problem is, he isn't healthy very often. 

Rice had one good year in 2009. In his other five seasons, he has averaged 29 receptions for 410 yards and 3 TDs. In what world is that "playing like a #1"?

Sorry bro, but you are being biased. I don't even think it's on purpose, but you have a case of the GrassisAlwaysGreener blues. If Pierre Garcon was on our team and Mike Williams wasn't, you'd be saying that Garcon is not on the same level as Mike Williams....which would actually be true.

No, Rice had 1 GREAT year in 2009 to prove that he can be special... Williams never has had that.  Also, as I said, Rice has been injured... a lot.  IF HEALTHY, he showed in '09 that he can be an extremely good receiver.  The Seahawks on banking on his health.  Would I?  No.  But if a team does, then the deal he got is reasonable.

Not biased at all.  Based on improvements and production, I believe Garcon can be a #1... so does Washington, so apparently I'm not alone.  Based on Williams drop in production and his need to be opposite Jackson, just to get back to his rookie numbers, tell me that he probably isn't a #1.  Being a great #2 isn't a bad thing.  I like Williams, I just don't think he's a #1 and should not be paid like one.

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#184 : May 15, 2013, 11:07:16 AM

since we are just playing opinions and guessing games for the most part...how would pierre garcon have looked on the bucs in 2011?  how would santonio holmes have looked?  sidney rice?

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#185 : May 15, 2013, 11:10:10 AM

since we are just playing opinions and guessing games for the most part...how would pierre garcon have looked on the bucs in 2011?  how would santonio holmes have looked?  sidney rice?

In a perfect scenario where no injuries occured, I think Rice could have had a great year... Holmes a pretty decent year... and Garcon, possibly about the same as Williams, since they were about at the same spot in their careers, meaning, 2nd year as s full-time receiver.  In a standard year where Rice's health is sketchy, Williams' season probably would have been better than Rice's.

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#186 : May 15, 2013, 11:18:23 AM

In a perfect scenario where no injuries occured, I think Rice could have had a great year... Holmes a pretty decent year... and Garcon, possibly about the same as Williams, since they were about at the same spot in their careers, meaning, 2nd year as s full-time receiver.  In a standard year where Rice's health is sketchy, Williams' season probably would have been better than Rice's.
do any of those guys go fight for the ball?  or in the perfect scenario are you expecting freeman to be much more accurate and on time that season?

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#187 : May 15, 2013, 01:06:19 PM

In a perfect scenario where no injuries occured, I think Rice could have had a great year... Holmes a pretty decent year... and Garcon, possibly about the same as Williams, since they were about at the same spot in their careers, meaning, 2nd year as s full-time receiver.  In a standard year where Rice's health is sketchy, Williams' season probably would have been better than Rice's.
do any of those guys go fight for the ball?  or in the perfect scenario are you expecting freeman to be much more accurate and on time that season?

Rice is a better receiver overall.  Hands, route running, speed, and play making... the only thing he's lacking in is durability.  So, when I said perfect scenario, I meant his health.  If healthy all year, Rice would have definitely made Freeman's numbers look better.  As for Holmes, I think he'd have made the team a bit better as well.  Also, we're not talking about guys who were 2nd year players.  They definitely would have made a bigger and better impact on Freeman and the Bucs as a whole than Williams.  Now, if you want to say "Year 2" Holmes and Rice, then that's a different argument altogether. 

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#188 : May 15, 2013, 05:43:20 PM



The Anti-Java

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#189 : May 15, 2013, 09:20:35 PM

In a perfect scenario where no injuries occured, I think Rice could have had a great year... Holmes a pretty decent year... and Garcon, possibly about the same as Williams, since they were about at the same spot in their careers, meaning, 2nd year as s full-time receiver.  In a standard year where Rice's health is sketchy, Williams' season probably would have been better than Rice's.
do any of those guys go fight for the ball?  or in the perfect scenario are you expecting freeman to be much more accurate and on time that season?


Boldin is that type of WR.  If its a jump ball, 99% of the time he will come down with the ball.  But dude is nearing the end of his career.  But just sayin he is the right kind WR for Freeman.   IMO


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#190 : May 16, 2013, 09:53:09 PM

I can't find the link to Mike William's signing today of that ultra fair contract.....


Hate

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#191 : May 16, 2013, 10:18:24 PM

Mike is a different breed of wideout.

He is a pure high riser, an acrobat.  I really cannot think of any wideout that plays the game the way 19 does.  Just a different style.  very entertaining to watch.  Baller.  Bucs drafted him, he is flat out one of the better deuces/quasi #1 in the entire league.  Pay the man.  He earned it.

THIS. Best body control of any WR I have ever seen.

I love me some MikeBuc19 but lets not get outta hand!!

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 I thought Lovie said he wanted quickness & speed, even at the QB position?

The Anti-Java

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#192 : May 16, 2013, 10:22:41 PM

Mike is a different breed of wideout.

He is a pure high riser, an acrobat.  I really cannot think of any wideout that plays the game the way 19 does.  Just a different style.  very entertaining to watch.  Baller.  Bucs drafted him, he is flat out one of the better deuces/quasi #1 in the entire league.  Pay the man.  He earned it.

THIS. Best body control of any WR I have ever seen.

I love me some MikeBuc19 but lets not get outta hand!!




Agree.  Sometimes he appears to be on roller skates.


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#193 : May 16, 2013, 10:34:51 PM



Rice, when healthy, has performed like a true #1.  The problem is, he isn't healthy very often. 

Rice had one good year in 2009. In his other five seasons, he has averaged 29 receptions for 410 yards and 3 TDs. In what world is that "playing like a #1"?

Sorry bro, but you are being biased. I don't even think it's on purpose, but you have a case of the GrassisAlwaysGreener blues. If Pierre Garcon was on our team and Mike Williams wasn't, you'd be saying that Garcon is not on the same level as Mike Williams....which would actually be true.

No, Rice had 1 GREAT year in 2009 to prove that he can be special... Williams never has had that.  Also, as I said, Rice has been injured... a lot.  IF HEALTHY, he showed in '09 that he can be an extremely good receiver.  The Seahawks on banking on his health.  Would I?  No.  But if a team does, then the deal he got is reasonable.

Not biased at all.  Based on improvements and production, I believe Garcon can be a #1... so does Washington, so apparently I'm not alone.  Based on Williams drop in production and his need to be opposite Jackson, just to get back to his rookie numbers, tell me that he probably isn't a #1.  Being a great #2 isn't a bad thing.  I like Williams, I just don't think he's a #1 and should not be paid like one.

[/quote]

Rice reminds me of Michael Clayton, one year wonder. Besides the inept coaching you have to figure in the lockout for Mike, that really hurt all the young guys.


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#194 : May 17, 2013, 09:49:06 AM

Shaddup punks.

Pay da man!

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