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CalcuttaRain

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#360 : June 22, 2013, 12:45:55 PM

On the oft-discussed topic of comparing the US to other countries: the US compares POORLY to other DEVELOPED countries:

"the United States is unusual with what Alpers described as the "two pillars" of gun control: licensing gun owners and registering weapons. "You are basically the only country in the developed world that doesn't license gun owners across the board and you are almost alone in not registering guns across the board," Alpers said. "It's very difficult to compare [the U.S.] with others, because you simply don't have those things." New Zealand and Canada are the other developed countries that don't register guns across the board, Alpers said. The two countries register handguns and military-style semi-automatics, but not rifles and shotguns"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/20/us-guns-statistics-outlier_n_2331892.html

"In addition to lax gun regulation, the U.S. stands out in the sheer number of guns. According to the Small Arms Survey, the estimated total number of guns held by U.S. civilians is 270 million -- 88.9 firearms per 100 people. The country with the second-most guns is India, with an estimated 46 million guns in private hands -- or about four firearms for every 100 people.

The U.S., with 4.5 percent of the world population, accounts for about 40 percent of the planet's civilian firearms, said Dr. Garen Wintemute, of the University of California, Davis, Medical Center"


This is the point:

"The U.S. is not a uniquely violent society, said Wintemute, who practices emergency medicine and conducts research on the nature and prevention of gun violence. Our overall rates of violence are similar to Australia, Canada and Western Europe. Where the U.S. stands out, Wintemute said, is in the homicide rate.

"That's a weapon effect. It's not clear that guns cause violence, but it's absolutely clear that they change the outcome," said Wintemute.

Other countries have homicide rates comparable with the U.S. or worse, Alpers said. But they're not exactly models of public safety. United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime data shows 10,300 homicides by firearms in the U.S. 2009, compared with 8,804 in Mexico and 12,808 in Colombia.

Adjusting for population, the U.S. death rate by firearms -- which includes homicides, suicide and accidents -- was 10.2 per 100,000 people in 2009, according to the Coalition for Gun Control. The closest developed country was Finland, with a firearms death rate of 4.47 per 100,000 people in 2008, less than half that of the U.S. rate. In Canada, the rate was 2.5 per 100,000 people in 2009. In the United Kingdom, the 2011 rate was 0.25 per 100,000 people."


NOBODY says gun restrictions will stop people from being violent:

"People have been killing each other since Cain and Abel and they will continue to do so," Olson said. "Really bad guys who are willing to kill have no problem getting guns." Olson conceded, however, that gun-purchasing restrictions could be tougher, especially for violent offenders." (The speaker - Olson -- is with the NRA)

In fact, restriction of guns in Australia did drop gun violence significantly BUT knife violence increased.  The difference, of course, is that guns are much more lethal than knives, particularly when it comes to killing multiple humans.

It's not clear that guns cause violence, but it's absolutely clear that they change the outcome," said Wintemute.

That's not even accounting for accidental deaths and suicides, where guns play a big role.  Suicides dropped in Australia with gun restrictions. That could be for a number of reasons, but common sense says guns are quick and lethal
: June 22, 2013, 12:48:38 PM VinBucFan

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#361 : June 22, 2013, 01:01:07 PM

That was a lot of work for nothing Vin.......

CalcuttaRain

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#362 : June 22, 2013, 01:08:06 PM

Canada shares a border with the US. much of the country speaks the same language, are also well-educated for the most part, and its people have many of the same values and traditions as people in the US, including, as an example, outdoor life and hunting Canada also has several large cities.  One of the STARKEST differences is the way the two countries treat GUNS: The US has 89 guns per 100 citizens. Canada has 33 per 100 citizens.  That means Canada has about a 1/3 of the guns as the US.  The death rate by fiream in Canada is DRAMATICALLY lower:

Adjusting for population, the U.S. death rate by firearms -- which includes homicides, suicide and accidents -- was 10.2 per 100,000 people in 2009, according to the Coalition for Gun Control.  In Canada, the rate was 2.5 per 100,000 people in 2009.

NOBODY is saying that guns are the ONLY difference, but if we are having an intellectually honest discussion about guns in society, it makes more sense to compare the US to Canada then, say, Colombia AND it is impossible, to the point of being completely unreasonable, to not at least note the CORRELATION between Canada's stricter gun laws and substantially lower gun deaths.

10.2 gun deaths per 100K people in the US

2.5 gun deaths per 100K people in Canada

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

CalcuttaRain

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#363 : June 22, 2013, 01:09:51 PM

That was a lot of work for nothing Vin.......

facts are facts, people are free to ignore them

although it wasn't much work

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

olafberserker

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#364 : June 22, 2013, 01:32:02 PM

That was a lot of work for nothing Vin.......

I believe this constitutes stalking.   Shame on you.

CalcuttaRain

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#365 : June 22, 2013, 01:34:16 PM

again, my post was on topic, you haven't had an "on topic" post since ..... lolz

beside being potentially gay (I guess) . . . and a coward and clearly a little crazy. .  you are just an awful liar:

The biggest liar on the board questioning other poster's intellectual honesty.  It has to be a work.  smh


"It's no secret that a liar won't believe in anyone else"

- Bono

^^^That's your first post. The topic of the post is .  . . wait for it  . . . . .  ME. 

You post lies like other people cant read

between responding to your stalking, I have been doing what I do on these boards which is commenting on various topics . . .  I made this challenge before and you failed . . .   you see if you can control yourself and not post another thing ABOUT ME . . .  and I will bet you I NEVER post a single comment about you in response . . I dont spend my time thinking about you, I just respond to your nonsense because its so freaking insane.  Good luck on this challenge . . . fail in 3 . . . 2 . .

like I predicted . . . fail

That was a lot of work for nothing Vin.......

I believe this constitutes stalking.   Shame on you.

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

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#366 : June 22, 2013, 01:35:20 PM

again, my post was on topic, you haven't had an "on topic" post since ..... lolz

beside being potentially gay (I guess) . . . and a coward and clearly a little crazy. .  you are just an awful liar:

The biggest liar on the board questioning other poster's intellectual honesty.  It has to be a work.  smh


"It's no secret that a liar won't believe in anyone else"

- Bono


You post lies like other people cant read



The irony is so think you need a knife.


So what you are saying is that your post calling me and others who interpret the stats differently than you intellectually dishonest was off topic?   So I guess my response falls under the "it was in response to you responding about me" category.


lolz


: June 22, 2013, 01:36:53 PM olafberserker

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#367 : June 22, 2013, 01:37:34 PM

Intellectually honesty is the first casualty. Shot dead right before our eyes.


lolz

CalcuttaRain

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#368 : June 22, 2013, 01:40:26 PM

again, my post was on topic, you haven't had an "on topic" post since ..... lolz

beside being potentially gay (I guess) . . . and a coward and clearly a little crazy. .  you are just an awful liar:

The biggest liar on the board questioning other poster's intellectual honesty.  It has to be a work.  smh


"It's no secret that a liar won't believe in anyone else"

- Bono


You post lies like other people cant read



The irony is so think you need a knife.


So what you are saying is that your post calling me and others who interpret the stats differently than you intellectually dishonest was off topic?   So I guess my response falls under the "it was in response to you responding about me" category.


lolz

I am almost embarrassed for you . . . that response is so lame and your action are so insane. You really need help.

Btw, on the part in red .  . .when I mentioned "intellectual dishonesty" in a post I wasnt even close to thinking about you . . .  I was commenting on the comparison of the US to undeveloped countries, which not only had nothing to do with you it was posted by someone else.  Its a discussion between JG, Spartan, CBW and me . . .

Besides, that post is worlds apart from your actions, which include you getting so upset about NOTHING . . . a discussion on a message board . . . that you climbed into my PERSONAL LIFE . . . off these boards.

C'mon man . . get a **CENSORED**ing grip
: June 22, 2013, 01:46:38 PM VinBucFan

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

CalcuttaRain

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#369 : June 22, 2013, 01:43:15 PM

Intellectually honesty is the first casualty. Shot dead right before our eyes.


lolz

that post you quoted FOLLOWED right after this in a discussion that has nothing to do with you, you werent even involved. The initial post was JG, then Spartan then CBW . . then me:


Just throwing this out there, but just about every country on the gun death list above the USA are 3rd world countries that lack the legal infrastructure that we have.

Here we go.

CBW is right. Anyone addressing the issue honestly would say, for example, that the UK, Australia, and Canada are much more like the US than, say, Sierra Lione or Bolivia.  The stats from those countries speak loudly and clearly about guns and so it's only natural for the pro-gun side to try to drown those stats in a sea of nonsense.

Silly discussion really

Apparently, you're so delusional that you must think I spend my time crafting posts about you???? W-T-F? . . .  . You are truly nuts . . .  . and just as I predicted . . .  you are right back posting about me . . . . what a freak

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

olafberserker

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#370 : June 22, 2013, 02:05:59 PM

The same points me and others have made genius.  You're right is has nothing to do with me when you call people making the point intellectually dishonest ..... lolz


As far as the rest of your bullspit above, nobody climbed into your personal life liar (at least not me)

you chose your user name vincepb3, no one else

you mean that he message board that you live on, have had multiple mental breakdowns on, have threatened physical violence against other posters multiple times on, make crap up to try and get yourself over on .... that message board means nothing?


Means nothing to 99% of the people here, but to you ..... IT"S YOUR LIFE.   Chew on that peanut butter boy   


lolz

CalcuttaRain

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#371 : June 22, 2013, 02:17:00 PM

The same points me and others have made genius.  You're right is has nothing to do with me when you call people making the point intellectually dishonest ..... lolz

delusional ^^^ .  . .so ANY comment I make . , . . even if clearly part of a conversation with others and NOT including you . . . is about you. . .  because you share the view of others . .  wtf . .    ???  That just proves how wacky you are. I am not you or Buggsy . . . meaning, unless you post about me . .  (which is all you guys do) . . . I dont even spend a second thinking about you . .  I have no interest in that, my interest is the TOPIC . .  in this thread, gun control

GET A  FLIPPING GRIP OLAF . . . .  my God.


As far as the rest of your bullspit above, nobody climbed into your personal life liar (at least not me)

like I said . . . crazy and a LIAR . . . you tracked me down, researched me, and then tried to make it clear to me on these boards that you knew who I was, as if that was some how going to scare me (lol).  It sounds stupid to  even type that considering this is a just a freaking message board BUT that is PRECISELY what you did . . .   no matter how much you try to run from it now.


Go on now . . .  keep posting ABOUT ME rather than the topic . . . just like I keep saying you will . . .  i returned to posting on topic . . .

On the oft-discussed topic of comparing the US to other countries: the US compares POORLY to other DEVELOPED countries:

"the United States is unusual with what Alpers described as the "two pillars" of gun control: licensing gun owners and registering weapons. "You are basically the only country in the developed world that doesn't license gun owners across the board and you are almost alone in not registering guns across the board," Alpers said. "It's very difficult to compare [the U.S.] with others, because you simply don't have those things." New Zealand and Canada are the other developed countries that don't register guns across the board, Alpers said. The two countries register handguns and military-style semi-automatics, but not rifles and shotguns"

 you returned to stalking

I believe this constitutes stalking.   Shame on you.

more Olaf stalking in 3 . . . 2 ....
: June 22, 2013, 02:21:02 PM VinBucFan

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

Dolorous Jason

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#372 : June 22, 2013, 04:10:57 PM

Funny how this thread has followed almost the same exact course as the Connecticut thread , lol

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

CalcuttaRain

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#373 : June 22, 2013, 04:27:37 PM

Funny how this thread has followed almost the same exact course as the Connecticut thread , lol

sensitive subject, I guess.  At least I can get it back on substance . .  . . .


for a little while at least   ;)
: June 22, 2013, 04:29:09 PM VinBucFan

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

CalcuttaRain

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#374 : June 22, 2013, 04:28:01 PM

On the oft-discussed topic of comparing the US to other countries: the US compares POORLY to other DEVELOPED countries:

"the United States is unusual with what Alpers described as the "two pillars" of gun control: licensing gun owners and registering weapons. "You are basically the only country in the developed world that doesn't license gun owners across the board and you are almost alone in not registering guns across the board," Alpers said. "It's very difficult to compare [the U.S.] with others, because you simply don't have those things." New Zealand and Canada are the other developed countries that don't register guns across the board, Alpers said. The two countries register handguns and military-style semi-automatics, but not rifles and shotguns"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/20/us-guns-statistics-outlier_n_2331892.html

"In addition to lax gun regulation, the U.S. stands out in the sheer number of guns. According to the Small Arms Survey, the estimated total number of guns held by U.S. civilians is 270 million -- 88.9 firearms per 100 people. The country with the second-most guns is India, with an estimated 46 million guns in private hands -- or about four firearms for every 100 people.

The U.S., with 4.5 percent of the world population, accounts for about 40 percent of the planet's civilian firearms, said Dr. Garen Wintemute, of the University of California, Davis, Medical Center"


This is the point:

"The U.S. is not a uniquely violent society, said Wintemute, who practices emergency medicine and conducts research on the nature and prevention of gun violence. Our overall rates of violence are similar to Australia, Canada and Western Europe. Where the U.S. stands out, Wintemute said, is in the homicide rate.

"That's a weapon effect. It's not clear that guns cause violence, but it's absolutely clear that they change the outcome," said Wintemute.

Other countries have homicide rates comparable with the U.S. or worse, Alpers said. But they're not exactly models of public safety. United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime data shows 10,300 homicides by firearms in the U.S. 2009, compared with 8,804 in Mexico and 12,808 in Colombia.

Adjusting for population, the U.S. death rate by firearms -- which includes homicides, suicide and accidents -- was 10.2 per 100,000 people in 2009, according to the Coalition for Gun Control. The closest developed country was Finland, with a firearms death rate of 4.47 per 100,000 people in 2008, less than half that of the U.S. rate. In Canada, the rate was 2.5 per 100,000 people in 2009. In the United Kingdom, the 2011 rate was 0.25 per 100,000 people."


NOBODY says gun restrictions will stop people from being violent:

"People have been killing each other since Cain and Abel and they will continue to do so," Olson said. "Really bad guys who are willing to kill have no problem getting guns." Olson conceded, however, that gun-purchasing restrictions could be tougher, especially for violent offenders." (The speaker - Olson -- is with the NRA)

In fact, restriction of guns in Australia did drop gun violence significantly BUT knife violence increased.  The difference, of course, is that guns are much more lethal than knives, particularly when it comes to killing multiple humans.

It's not clear that guns cause violence, but it's absolutely clear that they change the outcome," said Wintemute.

That's not even accounting for accidental deaths and suicides, where guns play a big role.  Suicides dropped in Australia with gun restrictions. That could be for a number of reasons, but common sense says guns are quick and lethal

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center
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