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tatmanfish

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#15 : July 01, 2013, 08:14:10 PM

Homers really blowing up martin....

how could you argue hes not top 5? Easily: he had 5 games of 100yds + rushing. In the games where he didn't accumulate over 100(11 games) he had 185 carries for 660yds rushing...a 3.56yd per carry total. That means he had over 1/3 of his total yards in just a few games. He had 8 games of under 70yds.  You can attribute a couple games to shoot outs and a couple to blow outs, but it still doesn't change the fact he was inconsistent for most of the year.

He looks like hes going to be a damn good back, but its way too early to proclaim anything about him given those inconsistencies. Let him string together another season like last and maybe show a little more consistency and then we can talk. If we don't wear him out he could be at least a top 10 back for a good number of years with potential to be top 5.

Now that the rant has ended, I'd be curious to see your top 10 list today

what rant? Im just using facts to say its too early. Hes a top 10 based on production and needs to have another good year with a little more consistency before we crown him. tons of guys have had 1 good year and fall off the map. I don't think Mairtin will be one of them, but Im going to give another year or so before I say top 5.

Peterson, Foster, Forte, Rice, Charles, Gore, Johnson, Jackson, MJD, and a few others you could argue have done as good for multiple years at this level. Those aren't in any particular order, but that's 9 backs whove continually produced at a high level barring injuries. Add in there were 2 other pretty good rookie RBs in his class, theres some pretty good talent in that list. I think Martin belongs somewhere in that top 10, but realistically 1 year is too soon to say top 5.



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#16 : July 01, 2013, 08:51:04 PM

Homers really blowing up martin....

how could you argue hes not top 5? Easily: he had 5 games of 100yds + rushing. In the games where he didn't accumulate over 100(11 games) he had 185 carries for 660yds rushing...a 3.56yd per carry total. That means he had over 1/3 of his total yards in just a few games. He had 8 games of under 70yds.  You can attribute a couple games to shoot outs and a couple to blow outs, but it still doesn't change the fact he was inconsistent for most of the year.

He looks like hes going to be a damn good back, but its way too early to proclaim anything about him given those inconsistencies. Let him string together another season like last and maybe show a little more consistency and then we can talk. If we don't wear him out he could be at least a top 10 back for a good number of years with potential to be top 5.


I already went into great detail in another thread on how idiotic your attempt to bash Martin is, by explaining that even the greats of all time average only 5 games a year of 100+ rushing yards. When a RB has like 9 or 10 games of 100+ yards (like you apparently think is normal to expect) you get seasons like AP last year or CJ2K. It's extremely rare.

Martin, as a rookie, was behind only Megatron and AP in total yards from scrimmage.....but you don't mention how effective he was as receiver. You figure in his receiving yards and he had 100 yards or more in all but three games. You completely ignore the fact that he accounted for 1926 yards. As a rookie. Somehow he managed to do that without being consistant though.....GTFO.

You don't mention how effective he was in pass protection or that in 368 touches he had only one fumble, which was arguably a 12th TD and not actually a fumble.

You are just way off man. Look at Ray Rice's game logs for his best season, which was 2011. It's reads almost identical to Martin's rookie season. That was Rice's BEST year. Does Rice suck too?

Anyone can fall off and not be as good as they are expected, but you are reaching. There is no evidence to think Martin will go that route. I think you are permanently scarred by guys like Clayton, Caddie, and Freeman....and you just can't except how great Martin was last year because you fear him letting you down.
: July 01, 2013, 08:57:22 PM JDouble

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#17 : July 01, 2013, 08:52:57 PM

I want him to be, though.


JDouble

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#18 : July 01, 2013, 08:53:05 PM


Peterson, Foster, Forte, Rice, Charles, Gore, Johnson, Jackson, MJD, and a few others....


Do yourself a favor and look at each one of those guys careers. You will see that 4 to 6 games of 100+ rushing yards is the norm for that group. Then maybe you can stop the repetitive nonsense.

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#19 : July 01, 2013, 08:58:00 PM

Homers really blowing up martin....

how could you argue hes not top 5? Easily: he had 5 games of 100yds + rushing. In the games where he didn't accumulate over 100(11 games) he had 185 carries for 660yds rushing...a 3.56yd per carry total. That means he had over 1/3 of his total yards in just a few games. He had 8 games of under 70yds.  You can attribute a couple games to shoot outs and a couple to blow outs, but it still doesn't change the fact he was inconsistent for most of the year.

He looks like hes going to be a damn good back, but its way too early to proclaim anything about him given those inconsistencies. Let him string together another season like last and maybe show a little more consistency and then we can talk. If we don't wear him out he could be at least a top 10 back for a good number of years with potential to be top 5.

Now that the rant has ended, I'd be curious to see your top 10 list today

what rant? Im just using facts to say its too early. Hes a top 10 based on production and needs to have another good year with a little more consistency before we crown him. tons of guys have had 1 good year and fall off the map. I don't think Mairtin will be one of them, but Im going to give another year or so before I say top 5.

Peterson, Foster, Forte, Rice, Charles, Gore, Johnson, Jackson, MJD, and a few others you could argue have done as good for multiple years at this level. Those aren't in any particular order, but that's 9 backs whove continually produced at a high level barring injuries. Add in there were 2 other pretty good rookie RBs in his class, theres some pretty good talent in that list. I think Martin belongs somewhere in that top 10, but realistically 1 year is too soon to say top 5.

The only guys i'm taking over Martin right now are Peterson, Foster and Lynch. IMO, he's on par with anyone else you can list..... and younger.

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#20 : July 01, 2013, 09:00:54 PM

Homers really blowing up martin....

how could you argue hes not top 5? Easily: he had 5 games of 100yds + rushing. In the games where he didn't accumulate over 100(11 games) he had 185 carries for 660yds rushing...a 3.56yd per carry total. That means he had over 1/3 of his total yards in just a few games. He had 8 games of under 70yds.  You can attribute a couple games to shoot outs and a couple to blow outs, but it still doesn't change the fact he was inconsistent for most of the year.

He looks like hes going to be a damn good back, but its way too early to proclaim anything about him given those inconsistencies. Let him string together another season like last and maybe show a little more consistency and then we can talk. If we don't wear him out he could be at least a top 10 back for a good number of years with potential to be top 5.


I already went into great detail in another thread on how idiotic your attempt to bash Martin is, by explaining that even the greats of all time average only 5 games a year of 100+ rushing yards. When a RB has like 9 or 10 games of 100+ yards (like you apparently think is normal to expect) you get seasons like AP last year or CJ2K. It's extremely rare.

Martin, as a rookie, was behind only Megatron and AP in total yards from scrimmage.....but you don't mention how effective he was as receiver. You figure in his receiving yards and he had 100 yards or more in all but three games.

You don't mention how effective he was in pass protection or that in 368 touches he had only one fumble, which was arguably a 12th TD and not actually a fumble.

You are just way off man. Look at Ray Rice's game logs for his best season, which was 2011. It's reads almost identical to Martin's rookie season. That was Rice's BEST year. Does Rice suck too?

Anyone can fall off and not be as good as they are expected, but you are reaching. There is no evidence to think Martin will go that route. I think you are permanently scarred by guys like Clayton, Caddie, and Freeman....and you just can't except how great Martin was last year because you fear him letting you down.

I side with you on the points you make, but I don't think he was bashing Martin and I don't think his points are idiotic either. I expect Martin to be as good or better with Nicks and Joseph back and I think he'd be number 1 or 2 RB in the league if he played in a blocking scheme like the Redskins and Texans where the stretch zone blocking allows lineman to get right into the LBs.



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#21 : July 01, 2013, 09:02:28 PM

Homers really blowing up martin....

how could you argue hes not top 5? Easily: he had 5 games of 100yds + rushing. In the games where he didn't accumulate over 100(11 games) he had 185 carries for 660yds rushing...a 3.56yd per carry total. That means he had over 1/3 of his total yards in just a few games. He had 8 games of under 70yds.  You can attribute a couple games to shoot outs and a couple to blow outs, but it still doesn't change the fact he was inconsistent for most of the year.

He looks like hes going to be a damn good back, but its way too early to proclaim anything about him given those inconsistencies. Let him string together another season like last and maybe show a little more consistency and then we can talk. If we don't wear him out he could be at least a top 10 back for a good number of years with potential to be top 5.

Now that the rant has ended, I'd be curious to see your top 10 list today

what rant? Im just using facts to say its too early. Hes a top 10 based on production and needs to have another good year with a little more consistency before we crown him. tons of guys have had 1 good year and fall off the map. I don't think Mairtin will be one of them, but Im going to give another year or so before I say top 5.

Peterson, Foster, Forte, Rice, Charles, Gore, Johnson, Jackson, MJD, and a few others you could argue have done as good for multiple years at this level. Those aren't in any particular order, but that's 9 backs whove continually produced at a high level barring injuries. Add in there were 2 other pretty good rookie RBs in his class, theres some pretty good talent in that list. I think Martin belongs somewhere in that top 10, but realistically 1 year is too soon to say top 5.

The only guys i'm taking over Martin right now are Peterson, Foster and Lynch. IMO, he's on par with anyone else you can list..... and younger.

If Nicks and Martin come back at a probowl level, Im almost debating picking Martin #1 overrall in my ppr fantasy league



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#22 : July 01, 2013, 09:03:05 PM

Homers really blowing up martin....

how could you argue hes not top 5? Easily: he had 5 games of 100yds + rushing. In the games where he didn't accumulate over 100(11 games) he had 185 carries for 660yds rushing...a 3.56yd per carry total. That means he had over 1/3 of his total yards in just a few games. He had 8 games of under 70yds.  You can attribute a couple games to shoot outs and a couple to blow outs, but it still doesn't change the fact he was inconsistent for most of the year.

He looks like hes going to be a damn good back, but its way too early to proclaim anything about him given those inconsistencies. Let him string together another season like last and maybe show a little more consistency and then we can talk. If we don't wear him out he could be at least a top 10 back for a good number of years with potential to be top 5.


I already went into great detail in another thread on how idiotic your attempt to bash Martin is, by explaining that even the greats of all time average only 5 games a year of 100+ rushing yards. When a RB has like 9 or 10 games of 100+ yards (like you apparently think is normal to expect) you get seasons like AP last year or CJ2K. It's extremely rare.

Martin, as a rookie, was behind only Megatron and AP in total yards from scrimmage.....but you don't mention how effective he was as receiver. You figure in his receiving yards and he had 100 yards or more in all but three games.

You don't mention how effective he was in pass protection or that in 368 touches he had only one fumble, which was arguably a 12th TD and not actually a fumble.

You are just way off man. Look at Ray Rice's game logs for his best season, which was 2011. It's reads almost identical to Martin's rookie season. That was Rice's BEST year. Does Rice suck too?

Anyone can fall off and not be as good as they are expected, but you are reaching. There is no evidence to think Martin will go that route. I think you are permanently scarred by guys like Clayton, Caddie, and Freeman....and you just can't except how great Martin was last year because you fear him letting you down.

I side with you on the points you make, but I don't think he was bashing Martin and I don't think his points are idiotic either. I expect Martin to be as good or better with Nicks and Joseph back and I think he'd be number 1 or 2 RB in the league if he played in a blocking scheme like the Redskins and Texans where the stretch zone blocking allows lineman to get right into the LBs.


It's only idiotic Pepsi because he makes the "Only had five 100 yard games" argument over and over again when it holds no water.

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#23 : July 01, 2013, 09:23:27 PM

It's only idiotic Pepsi because he makes the "Only had five 100 yard games" argument over and over again when it holds no water.

100 yd games:


Martin 5
Peterson 10
Foster 7
Gore  3
Rice  4
Charles 7(5 games under 50)
Forte 3


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#24 : July 01, 2013, 09:28:00 PM

And he had a really crappy Oline to run behind last year.

I think he is top 5 already. He's a Ray Rice clone with fresh legs.

Haters gonna hate.

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#25 : July 01, 2013, 09:30:59 PM

Haters gonna hate.

that pretty much sums it up

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#26 : July 02, 2013, 12:11:39 AM

It's only idiotic Pepsi because he makes the "Only had five 100 yard games" argument over and over again when it holds no water.

100 yd games:


Martin 5
Peterson 10
Foster 7
Gore  3
Rice  4
Charles 7(5 games under 50)
Forte 3

Lynch had 10 last year. Before that he had 6 in 2011. For the four years before that he never had more than 3.

Jamaal Charles' 7 in 2012 was his career best. He had 4 in 2010. Had 5 in 2009.

Rice had 6 once in 2011. Never more. That was the best year of his career.

Frank Gore had 9 once in 2006. He had 5 twice. Rest of his seasons were 4 or less.

Even the almighty Adrian Peterson had 10 one other time in 2008, but other than 2008 and 2012....he has had 5 or less per season.

Arian Foster is a freak. He had 7 in 2012, 7 in 2011, and 8 in 2010.....that is sick. It is worth noting though that all three of those years were riddled with games in which he had less than 50 yards rushing and he has only once had more rushing yards than Martin did as a rookie.


Bottom line is, having a RB that gets you 90 to 110 rushing yards every single week would be awesome.....but in 70+ years of NFL history there has never been a guy like that. Not Jim Brown. Not Sweetness. Not Barry Sanders. Not Emmitt Smith. Not Adrian Peterson. They all have several games each year in which they had 60 yards or less. It happens. It's reality.
: July 02, 2013, 12:13:43 AM JDouble

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tatmanfish

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#27 : July 02, 2013, 12:35:51 AM

Jdub is just butt hurt nothing new. No one bashed martin, jdub is just a crybaby. Hes mad someone doesnt share his homerism for a rb because he was actually right in his evaluation for once. The blind squirrel found a nut and now thinks its the greatest nut ever.

The 5 100yd games only means something if you also include the 8 games under 70 yds and the low yds per carry every game where he didnt bust out for a ton of yardage. You can also ignore the fact that about a 1/3 of his yadrs came in a few games. Early in the year he looked lost and was burrying his head into the line, as the season went on he hit his stride but still had a couple bad games. I just hope he continues to improve so he is considered elite. If you asked any knowledgable fan of any other team most would put him in the top 10, not the top 5.

Thats not a knock on martin just that he needs to be more consistent and do it more than 1 year. He had a great year and showed improvement as the year went on. If he continues that, then hes a top 5 back imo. I dont think one season should qualify any player to be in the top 5 unless its ridiculous numbers. Should we be putting alfred morris in the conversation? He had a hell of hear as well and wasnt a 1st rounder.

I laugh at all the guys that get butt hurt here when someone points out that the truth is likely somewhere between hype/hate. A guy has a good year they are one of the best in the nfl. A guy has a bad year and they want them replaced. Emotional drama queen stuff is sad and funny all in one.

Hes top 5 after 1 good year!!!!!! Its moronic to think a player should have to prove themself in more than one season to be considered elite!!! Blount and caddy were elite once too I guess? Let be overly dramatic because were on our periods and pretend like someone said martin sucks. Nevermind theyve said hes a great back many times. Lets say theve been burned by previous bucs and that players all over the nfls history havent had one great and then been average. 2 years of production too much and too long to ask.  Gtfo.
: July 02, 2013, 12:43:28 AM tatmanfish



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#28 : July 02, 2013, 01:33:28 AM

Blount and caddy were elite once too I guess?

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#29 : July 02, 2013, 01:50:10 AM

It's only idiotic Pepsi because he makes the "Only had five 100 yard games" argument over and over again when it holds no water.

100 yd games:


Martin 5
Peterson 10
Foster 7
Gore  3
Rice  4
Charles 7(5 games under 50)
Forte 3

Lynch had 10 last year. Before that he had 6 in 2011. For the four years before that he never had more than 3.

Jamaal Charles' 7 in 2012 was his career best. He had 4 in 2010. Had 5 in 2009.

Rice had 6 once in 2011. Never more. That was the best year of his career.

Frank Gore had 9 once in 2006. He had 5 twice. Rest of his seasons were 4 or less.

Even the almighty Adrian Peterson had 10 one other time in 2008, but other than 2008 and 2012....he has had 5 or less per season.

Arian Foster is a freak. He had 7 in 2012, 7 in 2011, and 8 in 2010.....that is sick. It is worth noting though that all three of those years were riddled with games in which he had less than 50 yards rushing and he has only once had more rushing yards than Martin did as a rookie.


Bottom line is, having a RB that gets you 90 to 110 rushing yards every single week would be awesome.....but in 70+ years of NFL history there has never been a guy like that. Not Jim Brown. Not Sweetness. Not Barry Sanders. Not Emmitt Smith. Not Adrian Peterson. They all have several games each year in which they had 60 yards or less. It happens. It's reality.





You guys are leaning on the numbers pretty hard. You also have to factor in, what team they are on, and how good is that team.  Say your on a pretty crappy team, by the time second half rolls around, your team might be down by 20 points or whatever. In that case, the QB will be winging it big time, without many carries for the RB.


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