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CalcuttaRain

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#15 : July 08, 2013, 04:32:08 PM

To your point that would be interesting to know -- what level of knowledge equals culpability

Some people will always be willing to break the law, but that doesnt mean we dont pass laws and laws do impact conduct, especially when enforced vigorously.

Having background checks at one brick and mortar building, but not at a tent next door, makes the background check system meaningless.  Having a universal approach is the starting point.  I agree with you that some people will break the law, but you have to have a law in place for it to be broken, right now there is no law as regards private sales.

You cannot create a foolproof system, but why would a bunch of law abiding citizens care anyway? Law abiding citizens dont sell guns to people without background checks anyway, so the process is the same either way, right? Law abiding citizens can also get as many guns as they want with a background check, again the process is the same.  The group that wants to avoid background checks are manufacturers/distributors . . .  who want an easy secondary market for guns .. .  so that they can sell more new guns

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Bucfucious

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#16 : July 08, 2013, 04:36:35 PM

"Having background checks at one brick and mortar building, but not at a tent next door, makes the background check system meaningless."

Except that background checks are required at the tent as well, and you've been distorting this fact the entire time. Or, are you trying to change the topic to private sales again? Hard to say who's in this mysterious tent of yours. Easier to insinuate when being so vague.

CBWx2

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#17 : July 08, 2013, 05:00:19 PM

Since you're trying to change the subject to private sales, can we assume that this is your way of admitting understanding that all sales by a licensed dealer require a background check, even at a gun show?

You don't quite understand what the gun show loophole is, do you?


spartan

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#18 : July 08, 2013, 05:02:05 PM

To your point that would be interesting to know -- what level of knowledge equals culpability

Some people will always be willing to break the law, but that doesnt mean we dont pass laws and laws do impact conduct, especially when enforced vigorously.

Having background checks at one brick and mortar building, but not at a tent next door, makes the background check system meaningless.  Having a universal approach is the starting point.  I agree with you that some people will break the law, but you have to have a law in place for it to be broken, right now there is no law as regards private sales.

You cannot create a foolproof system, but why would a bunch of law abiding citizens care anyway? Law abiding citizens dont sell guns to people without background checks anyway, so the process is the same either way, right? Law abiding citizens can also get as many guns as they want with a background check, again the process is the same.  The group that wants to avoid background checks are manufacturers/distributors . . .  who want an easy secondary market for guns .. .  so that they can sell more new guns

To be honest I have no problems with background checks being mandatory at gun shows. You could even have an organized booth there that would facilitate the transaction, and a record does not have to be made of what is being sold. The reality of the situation is that any law would not just stop there would it? The "gunshow loophole" is just a catch phrase that is used to euphemize ALL private sales. That would be the real goal.

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#19 : July 08, 2013, 05:09:32 PM

CBW, Spartan just summed it up for you. There is no "gun show loophole," it is a myth. A licensed firearm dealer must perform a background check, regardless of where the sale takes place. A private seller is forbidden under federal law from selling firearms to persons they have reason to believe are felons or otherwise prohibited from purchasing firearms, regardless of where the sale takes place.

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#20 : July 08, 2013, 05:14:02 PM

CBW, Spartan just summed it up for you. There is no "gun show loophole," it is a myth. A licensed firearm dealer must perform a background check, regardless of where the sale takes place. A private seller is forbidden under federal law from selling firearms to persons they have reason to believe are felons or otherwise prohibited from purchasing firearms, regardless of where the sale takes place.

What would give someone "reason to believe" that a stranger at a gun show was a felon or otherwise prohibited from purchasing a firearm? Perhaps, if the person volunteered this information, knowing that it would mean that the seller could no longer sell him the gun. Or I suppose if they were wearing a t-shirt that said it or if it were tattooed on their forehead. Otherwise, one might call it a loophole, given that the law requires that you take no reasonable steps to assure that the person isn't a felon or otherwise prohibited from purchasing a firearm.


CalcuttaRain

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#21 : July 08, 2013, 05:14:11 PM

The "gunshow loophole" is just a catch phrase that is used to euphemize ALL private sales. That would be the real goal.

there's no substantial reason that I can come up with to not have background checks of private sales.  Why would two law-abiding citizens care about having a background check?  There's a cost, but it cost money to transfer a lot of assets


Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

Bucfucious

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#22 : July 08, 2013, 05:17:47 PM

It only took a few months and thousands of posts to bring out that you want to control private sales.

Now was that so hard to admit?

CalcuttaRain

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#23 : July 08, 2013, 05:19:44 PM

CBW, Spartan just summed it up for you. There is no "gun show loophole," it is a myth. A licensed firearm dealer must perform a background check, regardless of where the sale takes place. A private seller is forbidden under federal law from selling firearms to persons they have reason to believe are felons or otherwise prohibited from purchasing firearms, regardless of where the sale takes place.


Funny stuff, you break the sentences apart and the nonsense is obvious:

There is no "gun show loophole," it is a myth.

because . .

A licensed firearm dealer must perform a background check, regardless of where the sale takes place.

and . .

A private seller is forbidden under federal law from selling firearms to persons they have reason to believe are felons or otherwise prohibited from purchasing firearms, regardless of where the sale takes place.

lol

so  . . . background checks by licensed firearm dealers and OMNISCIENT private sellers . .  . therefore . .  the "gun show loophole" is a "myth"

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

CalcuttaRain

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#24 : July 08, 2013, 05:22:08 PM

It only took a few months and thousands of posts to bring out that you want to control private sales.

Now was that so hard to admit?

lol . . . maybe Illuminator is smarter than Von Mises . .. 

universal (yn-vrsl)
adj.
1. Of, relating to, extending to, or affecting the entire world or all within the world; worldwide: "This discovery of literature has as yet only partially penetrated the universal consciousness" (Ellen Key).
2. Including, relating to, or affecting all members of the class or group under consideration: the universal skepticism of philosophers. See Synonyms at general.
3. Applicable or common to all purposes, conditions, or situations: a universal remedy.
4. Of or relating to the universe or cosmos; cosmic.
5. Knowledgeable about or constituting all or many subjects; comprehensively broad.
6. Adapted or adjustable to many sizes or mechanical uses.
7. Logic Encompassing all of the members of a class or group. Used of a proposition


LMAO . . .  maybe you were banned when Spartan and I had a long discussion about EXEMPTIONS to private sale background checks . . . like an exmptions for CWP holders etc. . . ..

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

spartan

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#25 : July 08, 2013, 08:33:56 PM

The "gunshow loophole" is just a catch phrase that is used to euphemize ALL private sales. That would be the real goal.

there's no substantial reason that I can come up with to not have background checks of private sales.  Why would two law-abiding citizens care about having a background check?  There's a cost, but it cost money to transfer a lot of assets

We have been here before. At the very least what was proposed recently for example was full of unintended consequences.

RiotHeart

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#26 : July 08, 2013, 09:51:02 PM

Considering you can be a private seller who rents a table at a gun show and sell legally without running a background check i wouldn't consider it a myth. One of which I've seen side by side with a law enforcement desk watching a table do it in pinellas. The loophole never had anything to do with licensed dealers.

spartan

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#27 : July 08, 2013, 10:36:53 PM


Some people will always be willing to break the law, but that doesnt mean we dont pass laws and laws do impact conduct, especially when enforced vigorously.


Color me stupid but the argument of passing more laws because people aren't adhering to the ones we have never really strikes me as a smart or logical response.

dbucfan

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#28 : July 09, 2013, 12:05:44 AM

Enforcement of laws is the issue. 

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

CalcuttaRain

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#29 : July 09, 2013, 07:28:17 AM


Some people will always be willing to break the law, but that doesnt mean we dont pass laws and laws do impact conduct, especially when enforced vigorously.


Color me stupid but the argument of passing more laws because people aren't adhering to the ones we have never really strikes me as a smart or logical response.

That's because you want to paint the extreme as commonplace. Many people do follow the law, especially when enforcement and penalties truly put the lawbreaker at risk AND - color me stupid - but you need a law to enforce. In other words, one cannot lament that private sellers don't require background checks when no law requires them to. The first step is have the law. The second is enforce it. Some will still break the law, but the flow will be more restricted, which is the point.

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center
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