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VinBucFan

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« #30 : July 21, 2013, 12:11:21 AM »

While black people are so incensed about the single case, why don't they get incensed when "their own" are killing each other as in the case above?

Why aren't whites incensed when "their own" are killing each other?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/07/15/the-trayvon-martin-killing-and-the-myth-of-black-on-black-crime.html

There’s no such thing as “black-on-black” crime. Yes, from 1976 to 2005, 94 percent of black victims were killed by black offenders, but that racial exclusivity was also true for white victims of violent crime—86 percent were killed by white offenders. Indeed, for the large majority of crimes, you’ll find that victims and offenders share a racial identity, or have some prior relationship to each other.

The argument you are making, like the article you link, doesn't make sense because both are arguing against an uncontested point. 

Of course there is such a thing as "block on black" crime, as the linked article says "94 percent of black victims were killed by black offenders." That is a lot of "black on black". crime.  The problem is your article goes on to argue against something that no one contends; namely that racial exclusivity doesn't exists for just black people killing black people. Duh?. Who cares? The point being made when some discuss "black on black" crime is not that it is exclusive, but rather that no one cares about it.  That is 100% true. If somebody gun down a 6 year old on her door step in my neighborhood it would be front page news, there would be outrage and all kinds of coverage.  But when that happens in Chicago, barely a mention, and any coverage ends quickly because much of the non-black community is dismissive saying 'it happens all the time." That's the point and an example of modern racism by apathy. One could certainly argue that African Americans need to get their own communities in line, but that doesn't change the fact that most white communities don't really care much SO LONG AS the violence and crime is not in the white community

It's not that "nobody cares".  IT's that if something like that happens in a black neighborhood it's "dog bites man".  If it happens in your neighborhood, it's "man bites dog".

people would care about "dog bites man" if it was next door, its not . .  . that's why people don't care.


No. It's not news because it happens too much to be news.  News isn't everyday occurrences.  Which this sadly is in many places.  And frankly, I think the media is afraid to look too deeply into why, because a lot of narratives wouldn't hold up under the scrutiny.

I agree that is why its not news, my point was more about doing something

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« #31 : July 21, 2013, 02:44:34 AM »

While black people are so incensed about the single case, why don't they get incensed when "their own" are killing each other as in the case above?

Why aren't whites incensed when "their own" are killing each other?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/07/15/the-trayvon-martin-killing-and-the-myth-of-black-on-black-crime.html

There’s no such thing as “black-on-black” crime. Yes, from 1976 to 2005, 94 percent of black victims were killed by black offenders, but that racial exclusivity was also true for white victims of violent crime—86 percent were killed by white offenders. Indeed, for the large majority of crimes, you’ll find that victims and offenders share a racial identity, or have some prior relationship to each other.

The argument you are making, like the article you link, doesn't make sense because both are arguing against an uncontested point. 

Of course there is such a thing as "block on black" crime, as the linked article says "94 percent of black victims were killed by black offenders." That is a lot of "black on black". crime.  The problem is your article goes on to argue against something that no one contends; namely that racial exclusivity doesn't exists for just black people killing black people. Duh?. Who cares? The point being made when some discuss "black on black" crime is not that it is exclusive, but rather that no one cares about it.  That is 100% true. If somebody gun down a 6 year old on her door step in my neighborhood it would be front page news, there would be outrage and all kinds of coverage.  But when that happens in Chicago, barely a mention, and any coverage ends quickly because much of the non-black community is dismissive saying 'it happens all the time." That's the point and an example of modern racism by apathy. One could certainly argue that African Americans need to get their own communities in line, but that doesn't change the fact that most white communities don't really care much SO LONG AS the violence and crime is not in the white community

It's not that "nobody cares".  IT's that if something like that happens in a black neighborhood it's "dog bites man".  If it happens in your neighborhood, it's "man bites dog".

people would care about "dog bites man" if it was next door, its not . .  . that's why people don't care.


No. It's not news because it happens too much to be news.  News isn't everyday occurrences.  Which this sadly is in many places.  And frankly, I think the media is afraid to look too deeply into why, because a lot of narratives wouldn't hold up under the scrutiny.

I agree that is why its not news, my point was more about doing something

No, your point was pretty clearly that nobody cares because it's black people dying.  There's no other reading of what you wrote.  None whatsoever.

VinBucFan

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« #32 : July 21, 2013, 06:21:40 AM »

I agree with that.  People dont care, that -- and the fact the African American community seems to do little --- is why little is done. If it was in their backyard, they would feel differently

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« #33 : July 21, 2013, 08:02:35 AM »


It's not that "nobody cares".  IT's that if something like that happens in a black neighborhood it's "dog bites man".  If it happens in your neighborhood, it's "man bites dog".

very good analogy there - got to give you props for that point and I take away the neanderthal comment from another thread

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« #34 : July 21, 2013, 09:39:49 AM »

the fact the African American community seems to do little

This is the problem.

Fran Tarkenton, Hall of Fame QB said. \\\"Ive watched Freeman a lot. He just plays God-awful. Thats who you are. Its just a player being able to play or not play. Josh Freeman has proven to me that he cant play.\\\"

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« #35 : July 21, 2013, 01:22:08 PM »

seems like for every one white murder suspect there are 3-4 murders from the black community -  just this past week alone, we've had several.

======================================



TAMPA -A Clearwater man was arrested Sunday in the fatal shooting of a St. Petersburg man attempting to stand up for his friends during an argument early Saturday in Ybor City, police said.

John Fitzgerald Chatman Jr., 29, was identified through social media accounts and witness statements, Tampa police said. Investigators contacted U.S. Marshals, who tracked Chatman to his apartment, at 2545 N.E. Coachman Road, and arrested him about 3:45 p.m. Sunday, authorities said.

According to police, Christian Maffu, 30, of St. Petersburg, was arguing with friends in a parking lot at 1600 E. Fifth Ave. just after 3 a.m. Saturday.

Chatman and his friends overheard the argument and began taunting Maffu and his friends, police said.

According to police, Chatman then went to his car, which was parked nearby, returned with a gun and pistol-whipped Myron Londono-Montilla, 30, of St. Petersburg, who was fighting with Chatman's friend.

Chatman then pointed the gun at Brian Hernandez, 29, of St. Petersburg, and threatened to kill him, police said.

http://tbo.com/news/crime/clearwater-man-arrested-in-fatal-ybor-city-shooting-20130715/

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« #36 : July 21, 2013, 05:08:33 PM »

seems like for every one white murder suspect there are 3-4 murders from the black community -  just this past week alone, we've had several.

======================================



TAMPA -A Clearwater man was arrested Sunday in the fatal shooting of a St. Petersburg man attempting to stand up for his friends during an argument early Saturday in Ybor City, police said.

John Fitzgerald Chatman Jr., 29, was identified through social media accounts and witness statements, Tampa police said. Investigators contacted U.S. Marshals, who tracked Chatman to his apartment, at 2545 N.E. Coachman Road, and arrested him about 3:45 p.m. Sunday, authorities said.

According to police, Christian Maffu, 30, of St. Petersburg, was arguing with friends in a parking lot at 1600 E. Fifth Ave. just after 3 a.m. Saturday.

Chatman and his friends overheard the argument and began taunting Maffu and his friends, police said.

According to police, Chatman then went to his car, which was parked nearby, returned with a gun and pistol-whipped Myron Londono-Montilla, 30, of St. Petersburg, who was fighting with Chatman's friend.

Chatman then pointed the gun at Brian Hernandez, 29, of St. Petersburg, and threatened to kill him, police said.

http://tbo.com/news/crime/clearwater-man-arrested-in-fatal-ybor-city-shooting-20130715/

I just assume that every black guy in Ybor is carrying a gun, so I avoid them when I'm there.   That place has really changed for the worst in the last 20 years.   I feel like I'm in the movie Boyz in the hood when I go there now.

Fran Tarkenton, Hall of Fame QB said. \\\"Ive watched Freeman a lot. He just plays God-awful. Thats who you are. Its just a player being able to play or not play. Josh Freeman has proven to me that he cant play.\\\"

Morgan

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« #37 : July 22, 2013, 07:32:29 AM »



Chris Wallace brought up the issue that I brought up in this thread - that there's a bigger issue threatening the Black population than what this Zimmerman case might have brought up.

======================
Wallace asked, “Congresswoman Edwards, should the African American community be focusing on that, the black-on-black crime, the carnage in our inner cities, and not on George Zimmerman?”

Wallace added, "…You have people demanding, ‘Let’s go after George Zimmerman, …hate crimes, economic boycotts of Florida.’ That isn’t talking about the real problems in the inner city." Later, to Dr. Ben Carson, Wallace asked, “I understand the concern with racial profiling but is that the real threat to young, black men? Predictably, Carson said he didn’t think so. Then, as Wallace interrupted Edwards' rejoinder to Carson, in order to give him “the last word,” Wallace "asked," “Is George Zimmerman a diversion from the real issue facing – the real threat facing young, African American men?”

Read more at http://www.newshounds.us/chris_wallace_whitesplains_to_african_americans_that_black_crime_is_more_important_than_george_zimmerman_07212013#b6Mvg5IsSbcuHOXV.99

VinBucFan

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« #38 : July 22, 2013, 08:01:22 AM »

Morgan - every time you leave out a key fact you create the perception that you are a racist

"Although blacks represent 13.1% of the general population, they represent 27.6% of the poor population. Hispanics, who make up 16.7% of the population, represent 25.3% of the poor population."

"Across the nation, four out of five whites live outside of the cities and 86 percent of whites live in neighborhoods where minorities make up less than 1 percent of the population. In contrast, 70 percent of Blacks and Latinos live in the cities or inner-ring suburbs."

People of all races kill people primarily in their own community.  I am going to guess that its less likley, for example, to fnd homicide in Avila or Tampa Palms then, say, College Hill or East Tampa. Your choice to leave out poverty statistics creates the impression (hopefully a false impression) that you link homicide to skin colr rather than to poverty/social circumstances.

http://raidsonline.com/?address=tampa,fl

African-American communities certainly have a huge violence issue and it is disproportionate BUT one cant have a meaningful discussion on the subject without at least acknowledging the obvious truth that College Hill should be more violent than Avila.
« : July 22, 2013, 09:05:07 AM VinBucFan »

John Galt?

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« #39 : July 25, 2013, 12:35:49 PM »

what the hell is wrong with this picture? Since leaving prison, more arrests but allowed to roam freely?

 BTW, this could have been Obama as well.

-------------------------------------------------------

TAMPA - Tampa police and the U.S. Marshals have arrested Demetrius Parks, the suspect wanted in the fatal shooting of a manager at a Family Dollar store in Tampa on July 14, officials announced today.


Parks, 23, was arrested in Orlando.


Police said Parks was robbing the store when he fatally shot Horsley Shorter Jr., who had retired from the Army, moved to Tampa to help his elderly mother and got a job as the manager at the store, located at 4900 N. 40th St.


Parks has been arrested for 37 felonies and 25 misdemeanor charges, Tampa Police Chief Jane Castor said this week.


Parks has served three years in state prison on weapons charges. Since his release March 31, he has been arrested four times for burglary, grand theft, opposing an officer and being a felon in possession of a firearm, Castor said.



WTF???

There is the problem, not racism, not prejudice, but LAZY AND INCOMPETENT JUDGES AND DAs.  Most...MOST murders are committed by previously convicted felons. If the judges and DAs pushed hard for tougher sentencing and longer jail time, then these felons wouldn't be on the streets to commit the murders. What the hell happened to 3 strikes and you're out??

If a guy faces arraignment on a gun possession charge and he has 30 odd other convictions...THEN NO FREAKIN BAIL. Convict him and make sure he stays in prison 10 yrs.(see 10-20-life)

37 arrests???????  Either the DA is doing a fecal job of getting convictions or the judges are not following proper sentencing guidelines.


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« #40 : July 25, 2013, 12:38:06 PM »

Come on, Galt.   The guy was just keeping it real.

VinBucFan

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« #41 : July 25, 2013, 12:41:43 PM »

what's the reason for having so many accounts Java?

VinBucFan

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« #42 : July 25, 2013, 12:47:59 PM »

what the hell is wrong with this picture? Since leaving prison, more arrests but allowed to roam freely?

 BTW, this could have been Obama as well.

-------------------------------------------------------

TAMPA - Tampa police and the U.S. Marshals have arrested Demetrius Parks, the suspect wanted in the fatal shooting of a manager at a Family Dollar store in Tampa on July 14, officials announced today.


Parks, 23, was arrested in Orlando.


Police said Parks was robbing the store when he fatally shot Horsley Shorter Jr., who had retired from the Army, moved to Tampa to help his elderly mother and got a job as the manager at the store, located at 4900 N. 40th St.


Parks has been arrested for 37 felonies and 25 misdemeanor charges, Tampa Police Chief Jane Castor said this week.


Parks has served three years in state prison on weapons charges. Since his release March 31, he has been arrested four times for burglary, grand theft, opposing an officer and being a felon in possession of a firearm, Castor said.



WTF???

There is the problem, not racism, not prejudice, but LAZY AND INCOMPETENT JUDGES AND DAs.  Most...MOST murders are committed by previously convicted felons. If the judges and DAs pushed hard for tougher sentencing and longer jail time, then these felons wouldn't be on the streets to commit the murders. What the hell happened to 3 strikes and you're out??

If a guy faces arraignment on a gun possession charge and he has 30 odd other convictions...THEN NO FREAKIN BAIL. Convict him and make sure he stays in prison 10 yrs.(see 10-20-life)

37 arrests???????  Either the DA is doing a fecal job of getting convictions or the judges are not following proper sentencing guidelines.

My guess .  . and its nothing more . . . is that you are mixing up the words. Your example says "30 odd other CONVICTIONS", but I think the story is about ARRESTS not convictions  . .  which leads to the second guess . . .  most of his ARRESTS are going to be crimes like possession etc.

all that said, I agree with everything else you said

Bucfucious

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« #43 : July 25, 2013, 12:53:27 PM »

We can't lock up every violent criminal around, we need the cell space for pot smokers.

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« #44 : July 25, 2013, 01:36:00 PM »

what the hell is wrong with this picture? Since leaving prison, more arrests but allowed to roam freely?

 BTW, this could have been Obama as well.

-------------------------------------------------------

TAMPA - Tampa police and the U.S. Marshals have arrested Demetrius Parks, the suspect wanted in the fatal shooting of a manager at a Family Dollar store in Tampa on July 14, officials announced today.


Parks, 23, was arrested in Orlando.


Police said Parks was robbing the store when he fatally shot Horsley Shorter Jr., who had retired from the Army, moved to Tampa to help his elderly mother and got a job as the manager at the store, located at 4900 N. 40th St.


Parks has been arrested for 37 felonies and 25 misdemeanor charges, Tampa Police Chief Jane Castor said this week.


Parks has served three years in state prison on weapons charges. Since his release March 31, he has been arrested four times for burglary, grand theft, opposing an officer and being a felon in possession of a firearm, Castor said.



WTF???

There is the problem, not racism, not prejudice, but LAZY AND INCOMPETENT JUDGES AND DAs.  Most...MOST murders are committed by previously convicted felons. If the judges and DAs pushed hard for tougher sentencing and longer jail time, then these felons wouldn't be on the streets to commit the murders. What the hell happened to 3 strikes and you're out??

If a guy faces arraignment on a gun possession charge and he has 30 odd other convictions...THEN NO FREAKIN BAIL. Convict him and make sure he stays in prison 10 yrs.(see 10-20-life)

37 arrests???????  Either the DA is doing a fecal job of getting convictions or the judges are not following proper sentencing guidelines.

My guess .  . and its nothing more . . . is that you are mixing up the words. Your example says "30 odd other CONVICTIONS", but I think the story is about ARRESTS not convictions  . .  which leads to the second guess . . .  most of his ARRESTS are going to be crimes like possession etc.

all that said, I agree with everything else you said



yeah I mixed it up a little and realized half way thru typing it said arrests vs convictions. BUT...

If a guy is arrested for 37 felonies and only manages to get a 3 yr conviction on gun charges, then the DA needs to be summarily FIRED. Either he is way too lazy or inept, or he is taking waaaay to many plea deals knocking serious crimes down to misdemeanor wrist slaps.

I find it beyond any reasonable belief that he was falsely arrested 30 odd times FOR FELONIES. Most DAs boast about 90+% conviction rates so if he was arrested 37 times, then there should be 30 odd convictions. That or these State Attnys are lying their butts off during re-election time.

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