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Bucfucious

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#75 : July 17, 2013, 10:35:33 AM

"haven't you heard Russell Wilson is Freeman"

I thought Freeman was the lost Manning brother, he just hadn't hit puberty yet?

TBayXXXVII

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#76 : July 17, 2013, 12:50:17 PM

The only good way for this to end for the Bucs is the light comes on with Freeman we give him a nice contract and the light stays on.  Starting another QB sets us back at least a couple of years and even then there's no guarantees with a new guy.  Could end up in the same situation.

I agree with the first sentence.  Disagree with the last 2.  If we have to move on from Freeman, it doesn't take long time to recoup.  Luck turned a 2-win team into an 11-win team.  Russell Wilson took his team to the playoffs.  If Glennon is the guy in 2014, who's to say that with a year under his belt, he can't win 8-10 games next year or 10-11 by the following?  Who's to say that the guy they draft can't do it?  This team has complimentary talent.  It's not a 1-year window.

If its so easy, why does Freeman after 3.5 years already hold franchise records of a 40 year old franchise? Its not like we could not get another Luck with Peyton on the roster or R Wilson after alreqady having traded for Flynn. How did Rodgers became the guy in GB again? If Glennon is the guy, how can an average guy like Freeman keep him on the bench, when he is not even drafted by the current coaching staff unlike Glennon. Its not like Glennons contract is holding him down either.

LOL... "Franchise Records".... HAHAHAHAHA!!!  Yeah, because this franchise has such a rich history.  Please.  Why don't we just go get Matt Cassel?  After all, he's only started 7 more games than Freeman and right now he'd be ranked #1 in yards and TD's.

We don't need an "Andrew Luck"... I'm just saying that if you look at the last 4 years, there are QB's that are producing well or have potential in less that 4 years. 

Not sure you're what your point is on Rodgers.

I'm not sure Glennon would even be given the chance to win the job.  I'm not sure Glennon is even any good, that's for the coaches to decide.  If he's mediocre, then I'd just go with him and move on from Freeman because he's already at Josh Freeman's level "mediocre". 
: July 17, 2013, 01:03:20 PM TBayXXXVII

captainjimbo

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#77 : July 17, 2013, 01:08:59 PM

If Glennon plays well in the preseason this board is going to explode.  I can't wait for this to start.

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#78 : July 17, 2013, 01:43:55 PM


LOL... "Franchise Records".... HAHAHAHAHA!!!  Yeah, because this franchise has such a rich history.  Please.  Why don't we just go get Matt Cassel?  After all, he's only started 7 more games than Freeman and right now he'd be ranked #1 in yards and TD's.

We don't need an "Andrew Luck"... I'm just saying that if you look at the last 4 years, there are QB's that are producing well or have potential in less that 4 years. 

Not sure you're what your point is on Rodgers.

I'm not sure Glennon would even be given the chance to win the job.  I'm not sure Glennon is even any good, that's for the coaches to decide.  If he's mediocre, then I'd just go with him and move on from Freeman because he's already at Josh Freeman's level "mediocre".

The rich history feature FORTY years of SB winning QBs, HOFers and multiple 1st rounders. Sorry but if its so easy to find those guys, Vinny or anybody else (maybe M Cassell) should still hold those records, not a mediocre QB like Freeman AFTER just 3.5 years.

Yes, we can find those guys you speak of...point is we can EVEN find 'em with Freeman starting instead of horrible QBs like Sanchez or Russell. Freeman just costs money, money thats is accounted for an elite QB anyway. Once we have one, Freeman and his salery is gone. He does not cost us any draft picks, pretty much anyone else but Glennon does though. 
Luck, Wilson, Rodgers and Kaepernick all got to teams that had potential starters already on the roster. RG3 was such an safe pick, WAS drafted another QB with its very next pick. Rodgers rode the bench for years, still he made it.

I still do not see how Freeman is keeping us from finding an elite QB, even if you do not buy into HIM becoming one. If you want to trade him though, we should do when we still can get the most for him. I do not think the right moment is after a 5th good but not great year and a franchise tag looming. This is how Freeman really 'costs' us ...draft picks.
If he is gone, we HAVE to replace him, if its  now or next year does not make a difference. Testing out Glennon for a year, while aquiring additional ammo to make a move in 2014 is better than having a nice record in 2013. Our win% is in jeopardy anyway.

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#79 : July 17, 2013, 01:46:30 PM

As for me I don't think I'm ready to write 2013 off just yet. 

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#80 : July 17, 2013, 02:27:49 PM

If Glennon plays well in the preseason this board is going to explode.  I can't wait for this to start.

Maybe....but if he sucks verse a bunch of 2nd and 3rd stringers....I think that is a bigger concern.

Draft Aaron Donald



TBayXXXVII

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#81 : July 18, 2013, 08:46:30 AM


LOL... "Franchise Records".... HAHAHAHAHA!!!  Yeah, because this franchise has such a rich history.  Please.  Why don't we just go get Matt Cassel?  After all, he's only started 7 more games than Freeman and right now he'd be ranked #1 in yards and TD's.

We don't need an "Andrew Luck"... I'm just saying that if you look at the last 4 years, there are QB's that are producing well or have potential in less that 4 years. 

Not sure you're what your point is on Rodgers.

I'm not sure Glennon would even be given the chance to win the job.  I'm not sure Glennon is even any good, that's for the coaches to decide.  If he's mediocre, then I'd just go with him and move on from Freeman because he's already at Josh Freeman's level "mediocre".

The rich history feature FORTY years of SB winning QBs, HOFers and multiple 1st rounders. Sorry but if its so easy to find those guys, Vinny or anybody else (maybe M Cassell) should still hold those records, not a mediocre QB like Freeman AFTER just 3.5 years.

Yes, we can find those guys you speak of...point is we can EVEN find 'em with Freeman starting instead of horrible QBs like Sanchez or Russell. Freeman just costs money, money thats is accounted for an elite QB anyway. Once we have one, Freeman and his salery is gone. He does not cost us any draft picks, pretty much anyone else but Glennon does though. 
Luck, Wilson, Rodgers and Kaepernick all got to teams that had potential starters already on the roster. RG3 was such an safe pick, WAS drafted another QB with its very next pick. Rodgers rode the bench for years, still he made it.

I still do not see how Freeman is keeping us from finding an elite QB, even if you do not buy into HIM becoming one. If you want to trade him though, we should do when we still can get the most for him. I do not think the right moment is after a 5th good but not great year and a franchise tag looming. This is how Freeman really 'costs' us ...draft picks.
If he is gone, we HAVE to replace him, if its  now or next year does not make a difference. Testing out Glennon for a year, while aquiring additional ammo to make a move in 2014 is better than having a nice record in 2013. Our win% is in jeopardy anyway.

This is a different era of passing in football... numbers get inflated very easily.  Matt Stafford would be higher than Josh Freeman in every category on the Bucs franchise rankings with his numbers and he did it in 44 games, so don't give me this crap about how great our QB history is.  Also, only Brad Johnson won a SB here... not QB"s" as you mentioned.  There are also ZERO HOF QB's in our history.  Yes, "multiple first rounders" applies, but since none of them weren't all that good anyway... it's not very impressive.  This is a list that Freeman is up against...

Doug Williams
Trent Dilfer
Vinny Testaverde
Brad Johnson
Steve DeBerg
Jeff Garcia
Craig Erickson
Shaun King

... give me a freaking break!!!  There is a total of ZERO QB's in our franchise's history for have started more than 5 season's worth (80), of games.  The Panthers who have been around half as long as the Bucs have 1.  The Jags, have 2.  The Houston Texans, who will be entering their 12th year, will have 1 once the season starts.


Andrew Luck was going to start Day 1.  Russell Wilson won the job.... as could Glennon, if he's given the chance.  Kaepernick was drafted as a "project".  Aaron Rodgers wasn't expected to be a franchise QB... that's why almost every team in the first round passed on him.

I never said Freeman would be stopping us from finding an elite QB.  I said I don't think they're (Schiano or Dominik), going to give Glennon a chance to win the job.  It's very possible that Glennon is our "Wilson" or "Kaepernick".
: July 18, 2013, 08:50:45 AM TBayXXXVII

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#82 : July 18, 2013, 11:10:08 AM


This is a different era of passing in football... numbers get inflated very easily.  Matt Stafford would be higher than Josh Freeman in every category on the Bucs franchise rankings with his numbers and he did it in 44 games, so don't give me this crap about how great our QB history is.  Also, only Brad Johnson won a SB here... not QB"s" as you mentioned.  There are also ZERO HOF QB's in our history.  Yes, "multiple first rounders" applies, but since none of them weren't all that good anyway... it's not very impressive.  This is a list that Freeman is up against...

Doug Williams
Trent Dilfer
Vinny Testaverde
Brad Johnson
Steve DeBerg
Jeff Garcia
Craig Erickson
Shaun King

... give me a freaking break!!!  There is a total of ZERO QB's in our franchise's history for have started more than 5 season's worth (80), of games.  The Panthers who have been around half as long as the Bucs have 1.  The Jags, have 2.  The Houston Texans, who will be entering their 12th year, will have 1 once the season starts.



xd, none of those QB played long enough to keep a mediocre QB like Freeman off our franchise records. Considering the success those QB had in the NFL(Doug, Brad, Trent and Steve won a SB, Young is a HOF QB), we definitely did not lack talent at QB for all those years. Therefore it looks like its not as easy to replace Freeman as you try to make it here.

We should be talking about how to get a better QB than Freeman, instead of what Freeman is NOT. Getting rid of Freeman will then become the direct consequence to, No one will question this then.

What ever you think about Rodger, Wilson, Kaepernick etc...none of their teams devalued their other QB BEFORE they found their great QB for the next decade to replace him with. We need to make the most out of Freeman, on and off the field.

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#83 : July 18, 2013, 11:54:41 AM


This is a different era of passing in football... numbers get inflated very easily.  Matt Stafford would be higher than Josh Freeman in every category on the Bucs franchise rankings with his numbers and he did it in 44 games, so don't give me this crap about how great our QB history is.  Also, only Brad Johnson won a SB here... not QB"s" as you mentioned.  There are also ZERO HOF QB's in our history.  Yes, "multiple first rounders" applies, but since none of them weren't all that good anyway... it's not very impressive.  This is a list that Freeman is up against...

Doug Williams
Trent Dilfer
Vinny Testaverde
Brad Johnson
Steve DeBerg
Jeff Garcia
Craig Erickson
Shaun King

... give me a freaking break!!!  There is a total of ZERO QB's in our franchise's history for have started more than 5 season's worth (80), of games.  The Panthers who have been around half as long as the Bucs have 1.  The Jags, have 2.  The Houston Texans, who will be entering their 12th year, will have 1 once the season starts.



xd, none of those QB played long enough to keep a mediocre QB like Freeman off our franchise records. Considering the success those QB had in the NFL(Doug, Brad, Trent and Steve won a SB, Young is a HOF QB), we definitely did not lack talent at QB for all those years. Therefore it looks like its not as easy to replace Freeman as you try to make it here.

We should be talking about how to get a better QB than Freeman, instead of what Freeman is NOT. Getting rid of Freeman will then become the direct consequence to, No one will question this then.

What ever you think about Rodger, Wilson, Kaepernick etc...none of their teams devalued their other QB BEFORE they found their great QB for the next decade to replace him with. We need to make the most out of Freeman, on and off the field.

I think we're getting off track... A LOT here.

There's just so many things wrong with your QB comparisons in relation to Bucs history that I'm not even going to spend time on that and just say, you are completely wrong.

According to Dominik / Schiano, the answer should be Glennon.  After all, they're the ones who drafted him.  That's who would replace Freeman.  Based on what I've seen from Freeman since '09, I find it hard to believe that Glennon can't be any worse.

I don't know how this tangent came about, but Glennon theoretically should be our Rodgers, Kaepernick, Wilson... etc, based on the fact that Dominik and Schiano drafted him.  If they drafted Glennon solely to be a backup then they should be fired just for being completely stupid.

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#84 : July 18, 2013, 12:06:57 PM

If a 3rd rd pick replaces a 1st rd pick Schiano is going to look like a genius.

Bucfucious

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#85 : July 18, 2013, 12:10:20 PM

Somehow, I get the feeling 37 will remain unimpressed.
His sniper attack will just move to a different angle.

QaZ

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#86 : July 18, 2013, 12:49:06 PM


I think we're getting off track... A LOT here.

There's just so many things wrong with your QB comparisons in relation to Bucs history that I'm not even going to spend time on that and just say, you are completely wrong.

According to Dominik / Schiano, the answer should be Glennon.  After all, they're the ones who drafted him.  That's who would replace Freeman.  Based on what I've seen from Freeman since '09, I find it hard to believe that Glennon can't be any worse.

I don't know how this tangent came about, but Glennon theoretically should be our Rodgers, Kaepernick, Wilson... etc, based on the fact that Dominik and Schiano drafted him.  If they drafted Glennon solely to be a backup then they should be fired just for being completely stupid.

You said we can easily regroup after getting rid of Freeman. Sure we COULD make the PO with somebody else in his rookie year, but as our history shows us, its not as easy as you try to make it here. It would be stupid to soley rely on this best case scenario. A mediocre QB like Freeman would not hold franchise records after 3.5 years, if finding and holding on to better QBs than would be a walk in the park. Freeman is not any better just because he had more success here than a HOF like Young...who scuked here for what evere reason. It tells us some about your 1 year back to the POs scenario, which is still possible even with Freeman as our back up.
If you want to build your plan on anyone but Freeman here, then its pretty much guarantee another QB will break Freeman mediocre records in a few years, without this having meaning towards his abilites to play QB in the NFL.

Glennon is another desperated swing by Dom to find an elite QB,to find a replacement for Freeman, since Freeman is not under contract beyond 2013. No one knows whether we get a great QB in the 2014 off season nor do we even know if there is any QB available to us who is better than Glennon(or Freeman if he select to pay him big time).

We should make the most out of Freeman, on and off the field, We should not stop looking for great QBs, just because Glennon has a chance to outplay Freeman one day. If we get Bridgewater next year and he becomes a great QB here, who cares about having giving Glennon a Chance or not, who cares about Freeman Extended or not. But since we are not guaranteed to get a great QB next year, we should think about what to do NOW to prevent the worse case, especially when we do not prevent the best case with those moves.
: July 18, 2013, 12:50:43 PM QaZ

Bucfucious

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#87 : October 22, 2013, 03:49:01 PM

I think you are on  crack if you think nobody would trade for him. One man's trash is another man's treasure. Look at guys like Whitehurst, Matt Flynn, and Alex Smith. Teams with no QB are desperate and they will pay for a QB. I'd bet my left nut that in that exact situation, a team like the Jags, Browns, or Cardinals would give us a 1st round pick for Freeman. If Alex Smith is stinking it up for the Chiefs, they would too. If Cutler is stinking in Chicago the Bears would probably do it. Vikings would do it if Ponder continues to suck. Jets might do it. Titans might even do it. You underestimate the power of the position.

That was some good crack.

TBayXXXVII

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#88 : October 22, 2013, 03:55:46 PM

Somehow, I get the feeling 37 will remain unimpressed.
His sniper attack will just move to a different angle.

Drafting unimpressive players results in unimpressive opinions.

chace1986

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#89 : October 22, 2013, 04:02:25 PM

XXXVII, I'd say you have a left nut to collect.


Hell, brees might not be as accurate as manziel.
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