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JDouble

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ę #15 : July 20, 2013, 11:20:51 AM Ľ


Yes but only if there is a pass rush. If our D-line can't get to the QB this season we are going to witness a monumental collapse of this franchise. There is no debating that.
our dline doesn't have to get to the QB, they just need to get close.

That is a loser mentality.


GameTime

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ę #16 : July 20, 2013, 11:25:02 AM Ľ


That is a loser mentality.
no it isn't. It's the same mentality that bal and sf used this past season. They didn't get to the QB, they didn't bring him down. They just got close.

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"

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ę #17 : July 20, 2013, 11:40:23 AM Ľ

We are tragically void of solidness up front. 

I think its a lil early to make the proclamation that our situation is 'tragic'

-------------------------------------------------------
   

 I thought Lovie said he wanted quickness & speed, even at the QB position?

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ę #18 : July 20, 2013, 02:09:05 PM Ľ

We are tragically void of solidness up front. 

I think its a lil early to make the proclamation that our situation is 'tragic'
Don't mind him.. He's just repeating what that chick told him last night.

JDouble

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ę #19 : July 20, 2013, 04:08:32 PM Ľ

HAha! GR has a tragic void of solidness up front!


Feel Real Good

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ę #20 : July 20, 2013, 04:22:50 PM Ľ

It goes without saying you'd rather have a great pass rush than not have a great pass rush, but you can still have a great defense without a great pass rush. The 2009 Jets were #1 in total defense, #8 in rushing yards per game, and #1 in passing yards per game (by a wide margin) all the while being tied for #18 in sacks with Calvin Pace leading the team with 8.0 sacks. The 2010 Jets were pretty similar.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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ę #21 : July 20, 2013, 04:22:54 PM Ľ

The Jets had some awesome Ds in 2008 2009 2010 and they didn't have a pass rush.  It was literally built from the back end.

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ę #22 : July 20, 2013, 04:35:54 PM Ľ


That is a loser mentality.
no it isn't. It's the same mentality that bal and sf used this past season. They didn't get to the QB, they didn't bring him down. They just got close.

1. Ravens and 49ers both had 10 more sacks than us. If we can finally get out of the 20's and get up near 40 like SF and the Ravens....yeah, that would be great. We have not gotten out of the 20s since 2007.

2. It's not all about sacks, but is about getting to the passer. Even if you don't record a single sack all game, if you are hitting him and taking him to the ground all day....then it has a big effect and is almost as good as getting an actual sack.

3. Just "getting close" does absolutely nothing, unless you are playing a nub QB that gets flustered extremely easy. Getting close usually results in a loss and a guy like Drew Brees looking pristine at the end of the game.


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ę #23 : July 20, 2013, 04:38:24 PM Ľ

The Jets had some awesome Ds in 2008 2009 2010 and they didn't have a pass rush.  It was literally built from the back end.

They had 41, 33, and 40 sacks in those years which was top ten. We haven't had 40 sacks since 2004. 40 sacks is pretty freaking great. They were 6th, 8th, and 3rd versus the run.

During those same three years they had 12, 14, and 17 interceptions....which is mediocre at best. They were ranked 1st, 6th, and 30th against the pass.

I think the front seven held their own.
ę : July 20, 2013, 04:43:39 PM JDouble Ľ


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ę #24 : July 20, 2013, 04:43:56 PM Ľ


That is a loser mentality.
no it isn't. It's the same mentality that bal and sf used this past season. They didn't get to the QB, they didn't bring him down. They just got close.

1. Ravens and 49ers both had 10 more sacks than us. If we can finally get out of the 20's and get up near 40 like SF and the Ravens....yeah, that would be great. We have not gotten out of the 20s since 2007.

2. It's not all about sacks, but is about getting to the passer. Even if you don't record a single sack all game, if you are hitting him and taking him to the ground all day....then it has a big effect and is almost as good as getting an actual sack.

3. Just "getting close" does absolutely nothing, unless you are playing a nub QB that gets flustered extremely easy. Getting close usually results in a loss and a guy like Drew Brees looking pristine at the end of the game.
I'm not sure why I might find such a statistic, but I think the Bucs were actually one of the better pressuring teams last year. I know McCoy and Bennett were two of the best at their positions at getting pressure. IMO the biggest problem with the defense isn't the lack of sacks it's the excessive and unproductive blitzing. If the Bucs could just get pressure, not even sacks, with the front 4 and leave 7 in coverage, and not 5 or 6, IMO they'd be a ton better.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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ę #25 : July 20, 2013, 04:45:43 PM Ľ

I think we have a problem with getting into the backfield and then not being able to do anything while we are there.


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ę #26 : July 20, 2013, 04:50:45 PM Ľ

I think it's premature to know what we have on the DLine for pass rush. We really don't know how it's going to be yet. That is why we are all worried about it. We have two guys coming back from injury but they are both loaded with talent. Gmac is coming off of a pro bowl season. If the guys play up to their potential and our secondary provides them with time to get there, we should see a better pass rush. Of course this isn't for sure and that why we are all up in arms about the pass rush. The unknown scares people.

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ę #27 : July 20, 2013, 04:58:38 PM Ľ


Yes but only if there is a pass rush. If our D-line can't get to the QB this season we are going to witness a monumental collapse of this franchise. There is no debating that.
our dline doesn't have to get to the QB, they just need to get close.

That is a loser mentality.

Not necessarily. Sacks are great and make for highlight reels but if you make the QB throw before he wants to or even better throw the ball away often enough, the result is pretty much the same. Admittedly loss of yardage is better than zero yards, but zero yards is way better than positive yards.

What Sapp was alluding to I think, and is very valid, no matter how good your back field, if the QB has all day to throw, eventually someone will come free. Conversely a good back field may buy you some time which in turn can turn a mediocre front 4 into an effective front 4.

GameTime

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ę #28 : July 20, 2013, 05:11:20 PM Ľ

1. Ravens and 49ers both had 10 more sacks than us. If we can finally get out of the 20's and get up near 40 like SF and the Ravens....yeah, that would be great. We have not gotten out of the 20s since 2007.

2. It's not all about sacks, but is about getting to the passer. Even if you don't record a single sack all game, if you are hitting him and taking him to the ground all day....then it has a big effect and is almost as good as getting an actual sack.

3. Just "getting close" does absolutely nothing, unless you are playing a nub QB that gets flustered extremely easy. Getting close usually results in a loss and a guy like Drew Brees looking pristine at the end of the game.
1.   is 10 sacks over a 16 game season a huge number?

2.  if you are getting to the passer, im assuming you are getting a sack.  if you are gettting close, i am assuming you are applying pressure.

3.  i see this point differently, as addressed in point 2.

we'll see.  if we have 20 sacks again and a porous pass D i will eat crow.  but i bet you guys will be singing the praises of our "pass rush" this season.  and it wont be much different...only our starters will stay healthy and our CB's wont give up easy passes off the snap.

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"

JDouble

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ę #29 : July 20, 2013, 05:15:16 PM Ľ

1. Ravens and 49ers both had 10 more sacks than us. If we can finally get out of the 20's and get up near 40 like SF and the Ravens....yeah, that would be great. We have not gotten out of the 20s since 2007.

2. It's not all about sacks, but is about getting to the passer. Even if you don't record a single sack all game, if you are hitting him and taking him to the ground all day....then it has a big effect and is almost as good as getting an actual sack.

3. Just "getting close" does absolutely nothing, unless you are playing a nub QB that gets flustered extremely easy. Getting close usually results in a loss and a guy like Drew Brees looking pristine at the end of the game.
1.   is 10 sacks over a 16 game season a huge number?

2.  if you are getting to the passer, im assuming you are getting a sack.  if you are gettting close, i am assuming you are applying pressure.

3.  i see this point differently, as addressed in point 2.

we'll see.  if we have 20 sacks again and a porous pass D i will eat crow.  but i bet you guys will be singing the praises of our "pass rush" this season.  and it wont be much different...only our starters will stay healthy and our CB's wont give up easy passes off the snap.



1. Yes. The difference between 27 and 38 is huge.

2. You don't have to record a sack to blast the QB as he is throwing the ball.

3. The good QBs in the league are not effected by guys just being close. They side step, keep their eyes down field, and pick you apart.

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