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Feel Real Good

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ę #30 : July 20, 2013, 05:17:09 PM Ľ

I'm pretty sure you know 20 sacks would be bad. But I think if the team can crawl into the low 30's while stopping all the useless blitzing that doesn't get there, they can be pretty decent.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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ę #31 : July 20, 2013, 05:21:14 PM Ľ

Why is everyone so, "it's gotta be this way" about it?

One hand washes the other in this game.

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ę #32 : July 20, 2013, 05:30:22 PM Ľ

Obviously, we are gonna need a pass rush.  Hopefully Bowers and Clayborn can provide that. If not, its back to the drawing board.   [2014 draft]


Bowers will be an upgrade over average Michal B....Clayborn was a reach man,he's really not that good..(looks like he sits on the couch all day playing x-box)

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ę #33 : July 20, 2013, 06:54:39 PM Ľ

1. Yes. The difference between 27 and 38 is huge.

2. You don't have to record a sack to blast the QB as he is throwing the ball.

3. The good QBs in the league are not effected by guys just being close. They side step, keep their eyes down field, and pick you apart.
1.  i dont think it is...or at least so many on this board have programmed me to think this way.  if our defense pressures the opposing QB all season forcing bad decisions...who cares about those 10 sacks?  STL had 15 more sacks than either bal or sf and it didnt help them out so much.

2.  no, but you have to be close to blast him.

3.  i believe you are twisting "getting close", but i understand.  its as subjective as getting pressure, and pass rush.  how bout i say we just need to make the QB uncomfortable and hurried.

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"

Biggs3535

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ę #34 : July 20, 2013, 06:57:16 PM Ľ


That is a loser mentality.
no it isn't. It's the same mentality that bal and sf used this past season. They didn't get to the QB, they didn't bring him down. They just got close.

1. Ravens and 49ers both had 10 more sacks than us. If we can finally get out of the 20's and get up near 40 like SF and the Ravens....yeah, that would be great. We have not gotten out of the 20s since 2007.

2. It's not all about sacks, but is about getting to the passer. Even if you don't record a single sack all game, if you are hitting him and taking him to the ground all day....then it has a big effect and is almost as good as getting an actual sack.

3. Just "getting close" does absolutely nothing, unless you are playing a nub QB that gets flustered extremely easy. Getting close usually results in a loss and a guy like Drew Brees looking pristine at the end of the game.
I'm not sure why I might find such a statistic, but I think the Bucs were actually one of the better pressuring teams last year. I know McCoy and Bennett were two of the best at their positions at getting pressure. IMO the biggest problem with the defense isn't the lack of sacks it's the excessive and unproductive blitzing. If the Bucs could just get pressure, not even sacks, with the front 4 and leave 7 in coverage, and not 5 or 6, IMO they'd be a ton better.

Agreed, and when you combine that with receivers being open immediately off of the line, the end result is one of the worst pass defenses in the history of the NFL.

Hopefully Sheridan and Schiano fix that crappy combo this season.
ę : July 20, 2013, 07:00:10 PM Biggs3535 Ľ


gone

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ę #35 : July 20, 2013, 06:57:32 PM Ľ

]our dline doesn't have to get to the QB, they just need to get close.

In general, the more you get "close" to the QB, the more times you will sack him.  Conversely, in general, the more times a team sacks a QB, the more times they will have been getting "close" to the QB.  These are not exclusive activities, they tend to go hand in hand..




you can still have a great defense without a great pass rush.

Yes, you can.  But just like saying you can win with great ground game instead of pass game, the odds are stacked against you.  The rule changes have impacted here as well.  There are too many receivers and too much turf to effectively defend for any period of time on a consistent basis if you can't generate a rush.  While it theoretically can be done, the odds are against it. And I'd submit that yardage totals would be the absolutely worst way to judge a good pass D with a weak rush, as that would tend to produce shorter throws more than anything else.




Not necessarily. Sacks are great and make for highlight reels but if you make the QB throw before he wants to or even better throw the ball away often enough, the result is pretty much the same.

No, it's not "pretty much the same" at all.  Go look at the QB under pressure thread.  Great (and good) QBs can (and will) still make lots of plays under pressure.  No QB makes plays after he's been sacked. 






Bowers will be an upgrade over average Michal B...

You state that like it's a fact, but it's really just a hope. 



Our Defense should be much improved this year.  Just firing Cooper was going to be an improvement, and we have added talent to the secondary in a big way.  So there is no reason to have a horrible pass D.  OTOH, we don't know if we are going to get anything out of AC or Bowers, and we still don't know who our NT is going to be.  We also don't know what holes in the scheme opposing teams have seen, there was a lot of complaining about the scheme itself last year, not just the talent.  If the scheme had problems you have to fix that by fixing the scheme, not the talent. 

I'm pretty optimistic about our moves on Defense, but I also think people are so excited about the secondary (as they should be) that they are overestimating the impact it will make a bit.  I expect our run defense will get worse, while pass will improve, and I expect significant improvement, but not to be fielding a top level defense.  There are just too many things that have to go right for us.  And I also worry that the only play makers we are counting on that don't have significant injury concerns are our safeties and Will.


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ę #36 : July 20, 2013, 07:08:02 PM Ľ

Two things:

- Bill Walsh's awesome defenses were all built back-to-front.  It can be done.

- We've spent two first round picks, two second round picks, a third, and a fourth on our defensive line over the last four seasons.  It's not like we're neglecting the front four in favor of DBs.  They just suck.


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ę #37 : July 20, 2013, 07:11:02 PM Ľ

    No doubt it's rare, but one notable D whose strength during the regular season was the secondary and MLB; 17-0 Dolphins of '72. None of Lombardi's teams had a notable pass rush either, although they could when needed... LOL; too far back for Mr. Sapp, I'm sure  ;D

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ę #38 : July 20, 2013, 07:15:41 PM Ľ

Two things:

- Bill Walsh's awesome defenses were all built back-to-front.  It can be done.

- We've spent two first round picks, two second round picks, a third, and a fourth on our defensive line over the last four seasons.  It's not like we're neglecting the front four in favor of DBs.  They just suck.
   Yep. And the year's their D stayed healthy, the team was far better. When injuries occured, the 49ers despite Walsh's at-the-time new-fangled WCO, usually got derailed...

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ę #39 : July 20, 2013, 07:41:21 PM Ľ

STL had 15 more sacks than either bal or sf and it didn't help them out so much.

No, sacks alone aren't the end all answer to everything, but they are a very important part. The Rams were top 15 in just about defensive category, but they didn't cause many turnovers or stop teams from converting on 3rd downs....so their defense was only average even though they had 52 sacks.

Draft Aaron Donald



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ę #40 : July 20, 2013, 07:45:53 PM Ľ

    3rd down defines the real quality of a defense, IMO. Sacks are nice, but turnovers are way better...

GameTime

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ę #41 : July 21, 2013, 04:16:50 PM Ľ

In general, the more you get "close" to the QB, the more times you will sack him.  Conversely, in general, the more times a team sacks a QB, the more times they will have been getting "close" to the QB.  These are not exclusive activities, they tend to go hand in hand..
i tend to agree with you, but most everyone will tell you that sf and bal had great pass rush last year while only being middle of the road in the sack category.  i dont care too much about stats, if we are getting close and harassing the QB we should be alright.

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"

Lord Bortles

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ę #42 : July 21, 2013, 07:46:54 PM Ľ

I think if we win the game then we're alright.

RD 1) QB B. Bortles/ T. Bridgewater/ J. Manziel
RD 2) WR Kelvin Benjamin/ A. Robinson/ D. Adams/ M. Lee/
RD 3) OG D. Dozier/ C. Richardson/
RD 5) WR D. Archer/ J. Huff/ M. Davis/ TJ Jones/ R Grant
RD 6) OLB P Shembo/ R. Powell/ - DE A. Lynch/ M Sam  RD 7) G B. Thomas (injured)

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ę #43 : July 21, 2013, 07:57:51 PM Ľ

I think if we win the game then we're alright.

Best post ever.

dbucfan

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ę #44 : July 21, 2013, 08:53:37 PM Ľ

I think if we win the game then we're alright.
Best post ever.
It is a good one, but Boid Fink's post about getting Richard Gere's permission is a butt kicker....

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant
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