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CBWx2

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« #135 : September 20, 2013, 02:35:12 PM »

All politics aside on whether it is is a better system or not :

We can't afford Universal Healthcare . Bottom line. People will not be willing to pay the amount of taxes it will take to actually fund it , which will be exorbitant.  We will just add it to the debt and it WILL be the final straw that bankrupts this stupid country. Believe that.

http://www.businessinsider.com/worlds-highest-effective-personal-tax-rates-2013-1

Raise taxes then. The increase would not be as much as one would think. Right, now, we only pay for healthcare through tax dollars for people who don't contribute via premiums, and that require a lot of care. This puts a burden on our system that including healthy people paying in would mitigate to a good degree. Look at Canada and the UK on that list, for instance. Their effective tax rates are not much higher than ours, and they both have universal coverage. The US's effective rate according to that link is 26%. Canada's is 30.5, and the UK's is 31.4. Australia also has a universal health care system, and their effective tax rate is 26.4%.


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« #136 : September 20, 2013, 03:46:50 PM »

We'll likely be bankrupt and sooner than most think.  Our convoluted tax system does a great job of hiding a large percentage of real taxation from the published figures (similar to unemployment rates).  So many want to pay nothing and yet point fingers & scream bloody hell when their services are not perfect.  Our economic system is presently so laser-focused on efficiency & cost reduction that our middle-class is sliding over the cliff into poverty, and the traditional path to the middle class is disappearing.  We've evidently decided it's ok to sell ourselves out at every turn in order to make the quarterly numbers now.  Just how's this consumer driven economy going to work once there is no substantial middle-class to fuel it.  We've been pissing away our advantages for many years now, and despite the effects, nothing is slowing it down.  I'm proud of our history of hard work and opportunity for all.  Don't count on that lasting if all we care about are low-price commodities, foreign markets, and quarterly returns at any cost.  Even if you work hard, invest well, and do everything correctly, you may be poor tomorrow.  Our ethics bar has dropped so low !  The next decade will likely produce a new scheme to rob you of your home investment, 401K, etc, and Capital Hill will be enabling & protecting the white collar orchestrators.  There seems to be NO regulation that can't be lobbied & purchased anymore, no matter the price to our economy, national security, or long term outlook as a nation.  Though we can argue the politics till blue in the face, and all will be correct some of the time, this is no longer about political parties (both are complicit).  It's become all about selling ourselves down the road for a quick dollar.  We may not even recognize this country in 15-20 yrs at this pace.  US Healthcare has a proud history also - too bad it's lost it's way and has become a political mess that threatens to, and does, bankrupt us as hard working tax-paying Americans.  IMHO Health Care should not be considered a right, but basic care and emergency care should be of consistent high quality, available & affordable.  Unfortunately, it has been needlessly transformed into something unaffordable, unsustainable and less effective.  I've personally already lost a specialist due to not being able to get paid reasonably through the reimbursement process.  She deemed it no longer worth the headaches and I don't blame her.  I also have a former co-worker who couldn't swing the Cobra pmts after getting laid off.  He's now > a Mil in debt due to his wife's hospitalization for a previously undiagnosed heart condition during that uninsured time period.  There's stories everywhere from productive responsible tax paying Americans who've "done the right thing" all or most of their life, and have gotten caught up in this toilet flush.  I'm looking for a ray of sunshine beyond the pain - anyone actually see one ?

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« #137 : September 20, 2013, 07:53:10 PM »

With the IRS overseeing this how can it fail? ::)

More administrators - that's the ticket.  Make it one big steaming mess should straighten out.... ignore how the hospitals are handling the issue, reducing staff and expenses... it will all be fine 
« : September 20, 2013, 09:17:14 PM dbucfan »

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

Redwave

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« #138 : September 20, 2013, 09:28:26 PM »

Hey I got a great way to save a few bucks on the budget the next month boss.  Lets cut back on hours for housekeeping and maintenance dept's.  We can blame the MRSA cases on the visiting Buccaneers and maybe nobody will notice all the grime & extra broken stuff.  OH YA, that's what we did last month.  Hmmm?

VinBucFan

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« #139 : September 24, 2013, 05:32:28 AM »

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/canary-coal-mine_756591.html


VinBucFan

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« #140 : September 24, 2013, 05:34:39 AM »

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324549004579066930028432984.html

"There are now 28 million people working part time versus 116.2 million full-timers. Once all the incentives of the ACA kick in by 2015, those figures could switch by perhaps as much as 10 million, turning into 38 million part-timers versus 106.2 million full-timers—bringing a noticeable decrease in the total number of productive hours workers spend on the job"

who knows if this will come true, but if so its totally nuts


Bucfucious

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« #141 : September 24, 2013, 09:39:53 AM »

How many part timers are actually working two or more jobs?

Redwave

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« #142 : September 26, 2013, 04:44:33 AM »

I don't know the numbers but it has to be high.  And how about the once-retired folks now banging away at the starter jobs and low-to-middle level jobs that are leaving a large percentage of our youth without income or a resume.  I had some of the crappiest attitude I've ever witnessed by 2 older gentlemen at the same home improvement store last week.  It wasn't targeted at me, and I laughed openly at one of them.  He laughed also once he thought about what he was doing.  Neither were there because they wanted to be, and the store and those living in Mom and Dads basement are no better off for them filling those positions.  I may be wrong as I did not inquire, but I'd bet they're working just under 30 hr's/ wk.

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« #143 : September 28, 2013, 12:25:03 PM »

By KATHY KRISTOF / MONEYWATCH/ September 26, 2013, 1:58 PM
Study: Insurance costs to soar under Obamacare

(MoneyWatch) Wondering what's going to happen to your health insurance premiums under Obamacare?

New research from the Manhattan Institute estimates that insurance rates for young men will rise by 99 percent. Rates for younger women will rise between 55 percent to 62 percent, according to the right-leaning New York think tank.

Obamacare premium costs vary from state to state, city to city
The precise impact of the new health law is likely to vary markedly from state-to-state, however. That's largely because different states have had different requirements for what had to be included in health insurance policies in the past. The Affordable Care Act, commonly known as Obamacare, overrides these rules and sets a federal overlay that demands a wide array of mandatory coverages. The Manhattan Institute has drawn up an interactive map that may help forecast the rise in cost for individuals.

These differences mean men will get hammered in North Carolina with an average 305 percent rate hike, while women will suffer in Nebraska, paying an average of 237 percent more. For most people, subsidies in the law will not counteract the rate shock, says co-author of the study Avik Roy, a health care expert and senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute.

Gov't releases info on health exchanges
"You hear all these excuses from the [Obama] administration -- that people are exaggerating the effect of the law," he says. "But real people are getting notices from their insurers now. My blog is flooded with comments from people saying that they just got a huge premium hike."

The Department of Health and Human Services put out a press release this week forecasting that Obamacare premiums would be 16 percent less than projected. However, the projected costs were estimates that attempted to project the cost of a policy in 2016. Consumers are receiving the real costs in notices from their insurers now only a few weeks before the law is set to go into effect. For healthy consumers who have existing policies, many of the premium hikes are proving massive.

Additionally, the promise that you could keep your old policy, if you liked it, has proved illusory. My insurer, Kaiser Permanente, informed me in a glossy booklet that "At midnight on December 31, we will discontinue your current plan because it will not meet the requirements of the Affordable Care Act." My premium, the letter added, would go from $209 a month to $348, a 66.5 percent increase that will cost $1,668 annually.

What made my plan too substandard to survive under Obamacare? It did not provide maternity benefits. I'm 53 years old. I figure pregnancy would require an act of God. (Incidentally, maternity benefits will be covered on men's policies too. Let's hope medical science comes a long way so you guys can use those benefits.) My policy also did not cover substance abuse treatments or psychiatric care.

Affordable Care Act success hinges on "young invincibles"
"Every one of those provisions sound nice -- they sound like you're protecting the sick and making sure that everyone is covered," Roy said. "But they drive up the cost structure."

Meanwhile, the things that mattered to me -- that I would be able to limit my out-of-pocket costs if I had a catastrophic ailment -- got worse under my new Obamacare policy. My policy, which has always paid 100 percent of the cost of annual check-ups, had a $5,000 annual deductible for sick visits and hospital stays. Once I paid that $5,000, the plan would pay 100 percent of any additional cost. That protected me from economic devastation in the event of a catastrophic illness, such as cancer.

Kaiser's Obamacare policy has a $4,500 deductible, but then covers only 40 percent of medical costs for office visits, hospital stays and drugs. Out-of-pocket expenses aren't capped until the policyholder pays $6,350 annually.

Sure, that's only another $1,350. But it adds to the additional $1,663 that I'm paying in premiums, making my personal cost for Obama care add to $3,018 annually. This, by the way, is the bare-bones policy under Obamacare -- the Bronze plan. Premiums for plans that offer lower deductibles and premiums would cost almost twice as much, according to the Kaiser booklet.

"This is a redistribution of wealth from the healthy to the sick, from the young to the old, from the people who have always had insurance to the uninsured," Roy said.

A standard policy for wellness and catastrophic coverage for an unexpected, unavoidable ailment or accident could have been provided for a fraction of what Obamacare coverage costs, Roy added. "Obama care forces insurers to offer products that carry all sorts of bells and whistles that most people don't want but everyone will now need to pay for."

"Imagine if Congress passed a law that required every car to have a hybrid engine," Roy said. "If you were an environmentalist, you might like that. But you would be dramatically driving up the cost of transportation."


© 2013 CBS Interactive Inc.. All Rights Reserved.

Just leaves one feeling vindicated.  And listening to the president tell the masses that Barrycare is not impacting the jobs market - that is rich.... 
« : September 28, 2013, 12:29:35 PM dbucfan »

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

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« #144 : September 28, 2013, 12:37:51 PM »

Clearly confidence in the success of Barrycare is not at an all time high

PAUL: Why must the American people suffer when even so many Democrats don’t want Obamacare?
Officials who implemented the law should not escape its pain
By Sen. Rand Paul Friday, September 27, 2013

CARSON: Obamacare fight is the new Alamo; no reinforcements coming

Earlier this week, in an effort led by Sen. Ted Cruz, some of my Republican colleagues and I took to the Senate floor with the intent of making Washington listen. The American people have made it abundantly clear that they do not want Obamacare. In fact, a majority of elected officials, the same officials that voted to implement this health care mandate, do not want it, either.

Last summer, in a 5-4 decision authored by Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr., the Supreme Court wrongly concluded that Obamacare’s individual mandate could stand. As a consequence of the court’s ruling, starting on Oct. 1, whether they want it or not, Americans will be compelled to purchase a government-mandated product — health insurance — or pay a tax.

SEE ALSO: CARSON: Obamacare fight is the new Alamo; no reinforcements coming
What should infuriate you the most is the fact that the same elected officials who implemented this mandate have recently declared themselves exempt from it. That is to say, these officials are forcing you to partake in something that they themselves are refusing. If Obamacare is so great, why then are federal employees and elected officials getting special treatment and opting out?

If President Obama, Rep. Nancy Pelosi, Sen. Harry Reid and Chief Justice Roberts love Obamacare so much, they should live under it. Their actions speak louder than words, and it is erroneous for these leaders to even attempt to claim that Obamacare is a step forward for Americans.

The American people do not approve of the Obamacare mandate and flocked to town halls across the country to let their representatives know it. In fact, only 12 percent of Americans think Obamacare will have a positive impact on their lives, according to a recent NBC-Wall Street Journal poll.

Headlines across the nation shows the harm Obamacare is imposing on Americans: “Georgia Healthcare Company Cuts 101 Employees due to Obamacare,” “Michigan School District Cuts Hours for Employees Because of Obamacare,” “Cleveland Clinic Announces Job Cuts to Prepare for Obamacare” and “Small Businesses Consider Dropping Healthcare Plans Under Obamacare,” just to name a few.

Before the Obamacare health insurance exchanges open on Oct. 1, we are already witnessing the negative effects this mandate is having on those it intended to help. We cannot even begin to fathom all of the negative effects Obamacare holds.

Based on separate analyses from Congressional Budget Office and Deloitte, between 20 million and 65 million Americans could lose their employer-sponsored health insurance policies, and according to the CBO, the health care reform law will destroy 800,000 jobs.

An analysis from the Joint Committee on Taxation and the CBO from September 2012 shows that in 2016, half of the tax imposed by the individual mandate will fall on those making an annual income of less than $120,000 for a family of four, or $59,000 for an individual. Families of four making $72,000 or less (and individuals making $35,400 or less) will bear 35 percent of the mandate tax. This is a direct tax on the middle class.

Through its proposed $1 trillion in tax increases, the $716 billion in Medicare cuts, and the individual mandates and regulations, it is clear that Obamacare will swiftly harm our country.

I find it absolutely de**CENSORED**able that Mr. Obama, his administration and the elected officials who shoved this mandate down the throat of Americans are now giving themselves waivers. The president is also giving his friends waivers. Mr. Obama’s behavior mirrors that of a captain jumping overboard, abandoning his own sinking ship.

I have a proposal. I have offered an amendment that would outlaw any special exemptions for government employees. This amendment requires all federal workers to purchase health insurance from the new Obamacare exchanges, instead of receiving taxpayer-funded subsidies.

I am also introducing a more broad constitutional amendment, which states that Congress shall make no law that treats citizens differently from the elites in the federal government.

Political leaders such as Mr. Obama and Mrs. Pelosi need to realize that they are not above the American people, and they are not above our laws, period. If Chief Justice Roberts thinks it is OK for the federal government to tax individuals if they don’t buy expensive private health insurance plans, he should be forced into Obamacare’s government-centered health care system. Members of Congress should also be forced to suffer under the same flawed health care system that Washington wants to use as a social experiment on the American people.

My legislation and constitutional amendment will remind all elected officials that they are not above the law, and they are certainly not above the American people.

Rand Paul is a Republican senator from Kentucky.



Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/27/paul-suffering-the-sting-of-obamacare/#ixzz2gCpxh4eh
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

VinBucFan

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« #145 : September 28, 2013, 08:47:49 PM »

The problem with healthcare is the price and yet the plan doesn't directly address pricing?


dbucfan

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« #146 : September 28, 2013, 10:48:18 PM »

Surely having the Federal government become the world's biggest insurance agent will be of some benefit - otherwise it makes absolutely no sense.

And then having the IRS oversee the Federal governments rules about how medicine is practiced and paid for - surely that has to be good.


Oh yea, saving money - not too clear how that part works

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

Zsnore

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« #147 : October 13, 2013, 11:11:19 PM »

http://obamacarefacts.com/

This is what I think about the Glazers being cheap...

Runole

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« #148 : October 14, 2013, 11:30:41 AM »

It is my understanding the Obamacare site cost the US over 600 million and it is a totally inept disaster for anyone trying to even check it out!

http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013/10/11/50-Real-People-Complaining-About-Healthcare-gov


https://www.facebook.com/Healthcare.gov


What a incredible Cluster F#$%  our muslim president  is  pushing on the American public to bankrupt the entire country.

VinBucFan

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« #149 : October 15, 2013, 03:42:59 PM »

It is my understanding the Obamacare site cost the US over 600 million and it is a totally inept disaster for anyone trying to even check it out!

http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013/10/11/50-Real-People-Complaining-About-Healthcare-gov


https://www.facebook.com/Healthcare.gov


What a incredible Cluster F#$%  our muslim president  is  pushing on the American public to bankrupt the entire country.


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