Welcome, Guest
Pewter Report  >>  Boards  >>  The Red Board (Moderators: 3rd String Kicker, PRPatrol)  >>  Topic: Dungy says Bucs have defense backwards « previous next »
Page: 1 2 3 4 ... 8

El Diablo

****
Starter

Posts : 630
Online
#15 : August 28, 2013, 08:13:05 AM

You don't draft 4 1st or 2nd round players at the same two positions and they all just happen to suck.

The problems with the pass rush over the last 3-4 years has been entirely due to coaching... ie... stupid stunts.

Yeah its the coaches fault not one if them could stay healthy. Stunts...what a lame excuse.

acacius

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 4715
Offline
#16 : August 28, 2013, 08:14:59 AM

Did he see our secondary last year? We couldve had Sapp, Rice, Spires and Mcfarland and still got destroyed in the pass game.
As much as I hate to bring up The Game That Shall Not Be Named - see what happened when you replaced Kelly with Tim Freaking Wansley.

youngone

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 11773
Offline
#17 : August 28, 2013, 08:23:17 AM

Did he see our secondary last year? We couldve had Sapp, Rice, Spires and Mcfarland and still got destroyed in the pass game.
As much as I hate to bring up The Game That Shall Not Be Named - see what happened when you replaced Kelly with Tim Freaking Wansley.
I just got sick.. That night was depressing.

Bucpride5

*
Pro Bowler
*****
Posts : 1793
Offline
#18 : August 28, 2013, 08:31:55 AM

I have a love hate relationship with Dungy so when he says backwards I laugh. I think the front  office is to blame by not adding a vet pass rusher this  off season. Didn't they notice the effect Vincent Jackson had on a young talent like Mike Williams. Freeney, Abraham or even Dumervill could've had that impact on underperforming high draft picks.

Yes, I'm hoping improved coverage helps the pass rush but this is a problem the Bucs have had for awhile. Beginning to think they don't have the front office to identify talent or the coaching to develop it.

Formerly known as T

 I\'ll be optimistic until I see a reason not to be

Bucpride5

*
Pro Bowler
*****
Posts : 1793
Offline
#19 : August 28, 2013, 08:33:15 AM

Did he see our secondary last year? We couldve had Sapp, Rice, Spires and Mcfarland and still got destroyed in the pass game.
As much as I hate to bring up The Game That Shall Not Be Named - see what happened when you replaced Kelly with Tim Freaking Wansley.

You are blocked

Formerly known as T

 I\'ll be optimistic until I see a reason not to be

Dy-nasty D

*
Starter
****
Posts : 596
Offline
#20 : August 28, 2013, 08:36:28 AM

Becuase of injuries, we don't know what we have on the DL yet. You can't keep using top draft picks on DL without giving them time to develop. Yeah, it would be great if a rookie would just light it up immediately, but that doesn't happen very often.

QaZ

*****
Pro Bowler

Posts : 1990
Offline
#21 : August 28, 2013, 08:47:47 AM

I think people read too much into the Revis and Goldson signing, as it wasnt DL vs. DBs. There were no all pro DLers available to us, but there were all pro DBs.
Maybe we were better off with a cheaper CB and FS, but this still would not gives any talented (more talented) DLers. Sorry, but Freeeny is on the brink of retirement, his 1-2 MAYBE productive years wont give us many answers of defense. How guys like Dummerville fit our system, i do not know. Would have been interesting if we would have passed on Revis&Co for really talented DLers.

I also think some here talk too much about the results of the two different defense, instead of the general approach... how to get those results, a pass rush a sack etc.
Dungy/Kiffins defense started up front, it was about freeing up the DLers, the LB and DB were set up AFTER that, corresponding with what the DL 'left to do'. The DL was allowed to get BY the OLers, play the gap, while Schiano system seems to encourage the DLers to actually play the OL, to free up the LBers to more easily controll and play the gaps. I think his system starts with the LBers, the other units are set up correspondign to the LBers. Because of that the line of scrimmage is much more crowed. To some degree we also use the opposing OLers to block for us. Some time i think we Play 3-4 assingments with 4 DLers. With Dungy we did not want to allow OLers get blocked by OLers, since the DLers did not really played them, they went by them.  The offense was usign our DLers to block for them to some degree.so LBer were asked to play off the line of scrimmage a bit more, to not get blocked by own DLers or run into free OLers, which leads to the safeties to play even more deep. Schiano asks his safeties to come closer, as the LBs play closer to the line to close the hole behind them.

When run to perfection those two system should have similar results. Both systems though when not running to perfecting can get easily exposed. When we Kiffin did not get to the QB fast enough, guys like Brady and Peyton were eating us alive, their pass' did not even require much 'talent', as they were just Dumping them off underneath. The hole between LB and DL, the free OLers allowed everyone to easily run at us. What happens when Schiano give too much time to the QB, we saw last year. Toadys rule changes did not help him either, lol.

acacius

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 4715
Offline
#22 : August 28, 2013, 08:51:39 AM

Quote
Sorry, but Freeeny is on the brink of retirement, his 1-2 MAYBE productive years wont give us many answers of defense.
In my opinion, even getting one productive year out of Freeney would have made him a worthwhile signing.  There's nothing inherently wrong with stopgaps, so long as they're not a team's *only* strategy.

JDouble

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 28395
Offline
#23 : August 28, 2013, 08:58:22 AM

Freeny should be a Buc. Period.

Draft Aaron Donald



Bucpride5

*
Pro Bowler
*****
Posts : 1793
Offline
#24 : August 28, 2013, 09:09:30 AM

Freeny should be a Buc. Period.

Truth.

Dom failed with the secondary in 2012 and now it looks like he failed the pass rush in 2013. Time to nut up or shut up, Freeman, Schiano and Dom.

Formerly known as T

 I\'ll be optimistic until I see a reason not to be

DefenseWins

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 3863
Offline
#25 : August 28, 2013, 09:13:17 AM

Dungy is correct.

Hope we get lucky!

Go Bucs!





It is a new day in TAMPA BAY!    GO BUCS!!

Feel Real Good

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 26720
Online
#26 : August 28, 2013, 09:17:23 AM

What does Tony Dungy know about coaching defense?

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

QaZ

*****
Pro Bowler

Posts : 1990
Offline
#27 : August 28, 2013, 09:18:23 AM

Quote
Sorry, but Freeeny is on the brink of retirement, his 1-2 MAYBE productive years wont give us many answers of defense.
In my opinion, even getting one productive year out of Freeney would have made him a worthwhile signing.  There's nothing inherently wrong with stopgaps, so long as they're not a team's *only* strategy.

Who is our DE in 2014 then? The guy that was riding the bench or was injured the last few years? Do we draft a DE in 2014? How do we answer the gapping hole at QB next year then? Do we pass on a guy like Bridgewater should he become available to us...for a DE? How do we pay Freeman should we select to keep him? Freeney would not come cheap, Already now we know we are going to have some cap casulties in 2014, especially when keeping Freeman(which is still a possibilty, else we should have traded him already).

Do we really have a shot at a SB this year, to go all in this year with an expensive stopgap guy? Do we really need 1-2 more wins for such a hefty prize, or is 2013 still more about checking what we got for our run at a SB in 2014?

I would not have an issue get a stopgap guy, for a position we might not have a long term answer on the roster yet or alsong he does not take away too much playtime for the raw but talented guys on the roster, ruining their chances long term with. Reasonable to believe Clay and Bowers are the projected long term starters, Freeney would just take away the chance to find out what they got...good or bad. Plugging in Bowers after Freeneys retirement, then finding out he is not good enough, would be ...something less than perfect.

But dont get me wrong, i see the possible benifit from, just its is not obvious enough for me to call out Doms and Schianos strategy to not go with Freeney, actually seeing why, doubting it Freeney outweighting the risks.

Opinions, to each his/her own, lol

BucNY

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 7433
Offline
#28 : August 28, 2013, 09:28:13 AM

We did try to build a strong dline first... it just didn't really work. Obviously dungy doesn't think too much of front four and how can you blame him.

^^ that ^^

Exactly what I was about to quote. It's not like we said "the hell with our d-line" and just started stacking our secondary. We spent a 1st and 2nd in 2010 on DT, a 1st and 2nd in 2011 on DE. That is a lot of high picks on our defensive line, they just havent' panned out the way we thought. And even saying that is subjective. McCoy is a absolute stud and it appears there will be no drop off with Spence. I expect Clayborn to pick up where he left off. Really the fact that Bowers appears to have gotten worse from last year is the only spot to complain. On paper we looked good at the end of last year. We'll see what progresses during the season. If those guys can continue to build together we could have a vicious pass defense, but a big IF with Bowers making himself into the force we thought he would be when he got drafted.

\\\\\\\"This forum needs a poster like BucNY now more than ever\\\\\\\"
      - Everyone

NotDeadYet

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 6361
Online
#29 : August 28, 2013, 09:34:18 AM

    Dungy apparently isn't really up on the Bucs recent draft history PRIOR to the Revis signing, and has forgotten Sapp wasn't a Pro Bowl DT early in his career... And Rice just fell into their laps...
    Or does he not think McCoy isn't a building block like Sapp was? Yeah, then there's Bowers, who if healthy has all-star potential.
    And Clayborn was a first round pick. Again, if healthy, could develop into a very good DE.
    Amazing the things ex-players and coaches will spout once they move into the broadcast booth. Not to be taken seriously; it's just meant to generate audience response and RATINGS...  ;D
Page: 1 2 3 4 ... 8
Pewter Report  >>  Boards  >>  The Red Board (Moderators: 3rd String Kicker, PRPatrol)  >>  Topic: Dungy says Bucs have defense backwards « previous next »
:

Hide Tools Show Tools