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DefenseWins

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: September 28, 2013, 12:54:35 PM

Total fan here. Honest post.



Around last in league, we are about where we should be.
Losing, what if's and what could have been, and I'm tired of it. Have we developed a culture of losing? Defending the losing, rather than insisting on quality..Being winners?!

This org got what it deserved, unfortunately at the cost of people's careers and lots of aggravating Sundays.  If to you it is a big mystery that we haven't produced consistent success over the last 10 years, maybe you take a different look at the situation. As an organization, there has been around the leagues lowest level of financial support from the Glazers. Go ahead and look it up.  I really hope you do.

Raheem Morris and Dominik were both infants to their newly acquired positions. Home run hires?
Their assistants were not.  The drafts don't look so hot now either. Quick! Except for Michael Bennett( sigh), Someone name a coach or player that has been here, and gone on to do decent.  Did we draft bad players, not develop them properly? Both, I'd guess. Welcome to Tampa where the standard is Superbowls!! huh?

After firing Morris, we took months to find a coach, with the general impression around the league being that this was not the most desirable destination as a coach. -The proven coaches, at least. When we went to hire Chip, he backed out(not crying over Chip at all). Wonder why?
We eventually found Schiano, and then it took ages to sign the assistants. -One small detail, the Bucs once again did not compete and were unwilling to offer assistants guaranteed contracts. Say what you will, but this is not league standard. Does little to attract quality coaches that might provide stability. These are limiting factors.

Even today, when it seems like the Glazers have awoken from a long and negligent/PROFITABLE nap with several large fa signings, we have a LONG way to go. Unfortunately the new cba had no requirements for spending on coaches. The only positive response by Glazers in last 8 years has been when they are required to.

What's sad for us and the players that have recently been drafted here,  is that they could provide the team with competitive coaching and administration and still profit, but CHOOSE not to. They continue the charade as if they care about winning, care about the fans, talk about excellence, while they let coaches and players fall on the sword for them. When is enough, enough?

If you want to truly feel like you have some perspective on things, if you want to understand nfl football and why we continue to suck at it, take a moment look at the entire operation.
Example: If you own a shop and are competing with 31 other shops, and hire inexperienced and inexpensive staff, should you really expect to be competitive?

Fan support is on and off life support. Selling tickets have been an issue in a market that once boasted a "100,000 person waiting list, no playoff wins since '02, a revolving door of undesirable coordinators (won't guarantee contracts), no fa activity to help team and then bulky contracts overpaying fa's to come here,  etc etc etc etc. These are facts. We could make a much longer list.

This organization is right around 30-32 in terms of quality within the NFL.

In this light, it's hard not to feel for the coaches and whoever else who tried so hard, just to realize that their is a glass ceiling, and an almost certainty that the other franchises around the league are clearly out gunning our effort. Do you think it is a mystery to Buc exec's? I do not. In the very-competitive NFl, losing is the likely outcome to the low probability (uncompetitive financial commitment) course our org has taken. The Glazers own two of the most valuable sports franchises in the world,  making tons of money. I'll go out on a limb and guess that their cpa's and attorneys are the best that money can buy. It's pretty ridiculous to think with the success that their family has, that they would not realize hiring inexperienced supporting staff doesn't typically  lead to good results. -I bet the accountants for the Bucs are top notch!
Some fans might not know better, but I assure you that They do!

I'd guess that local journalists are well aware of the constraints set upon this organization by ownership, but have a lot to lose by honestly criticizing such influential people. Somewhere in between integrity, politics, and covering their asses, the truth gets blurred.

The Players and coaches are in a tough spot here. Their reputations on the line, and the ownership has other priorities.
Same old same old.

Sundays in Tampa are rough. There are more tears in my mug than beer.
We have invested our time and emotions. We have voluntarily or involuntarily invested over one hundred million tax payer dollars into the stadium.  A profiteering place that we all built for them.
I feel bad for the players, the coaches, and the fans.

One last note..,
On Schiano staying /going:
I think Schiano and most coaches are over their skis, maybe not ready to coach with a barebones approach. What is a serious concern: Recent history suggests if we fire Schiano and whoever else, we will hire another set of inexperienced coaches and put it all on them again.







It is a new day in TAMPA BAY!    GO BUCS!!

BucDaFackUp

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#1 : September 28, 2013, 01:16:45 PM

This is well thought out and well-presented.....good stuff.

vicious00cycle

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#2 : September 28, 2013, 01:24:03 PM

So you're blaming ownership, OP?

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captainjimbo

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#3 : September 28, 2013, 01:31:22 PM

So you're blaming ownership, OP?
If he doesn't I will!  It starts and ends there.  Period!!!

vicious00cycle

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#4 : September 28, 2013, 01:35:41 PM

Agreed. But that's an excercise in absolute futility. They OWN the team. It's their product. If they choose to run the franchise straight into the ground every year until they're forced to sell it, kudos to them. The only way to change that fact is to buy the team yourself. Don't have the money? Better just carry on with life.

\\\\\\\"He doesn\\\\\\\'t want a people to rule so much as he wants puppets to entertain his madness.\\\\\\\"

DefenseWins

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#5 : September 28, 2013, 01:39:22 PM

Agreed. But that's an excercise in absolute futility. They OWN the team. It's their product. If they choose to run the franchise straight into the ground every year until they're forced to sell it, kudos to them. The only way to change that fact is to buy the team yourself. Don't have the money? Better just carry on with life.

.......

Have we developed a culture of losing? Defending the losing, rather than insisting on quality..Being winners?!





It is a new day in TAMPA BAY!    GO BUCS!!

Bayfisher

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#6 : September 28, 2013, 01:45:09 PM

If they wanted another Super Bowl they would have it.  Quite simple.  Many years of neglect led to this.  I almost got tickets this year but it will be another couple years before I look into it again.  No QB and Schiano here equals no fan investment. I'm actually feeling bitter about having spent for the Thursday night game and a preseason game this season.

vicious00cycle

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#7 : September 28, 2013, 01:48:22 PM

You gonna pony up the dough and buy the team from the Glazer boys? If not, I don't really see how you can "hold them accountable"... Again, this is their team, their franchise, their product. Blaming owners for shortcomings is just something I've never understood. Props to ya OP, stir the collective pot on here and get everybody fired up, but in the end it won't amount to anything. If you're venting, I completely understand. But the culture around here is what it is. The owners aren't likely to change that overnight. Takes a lot of the right pieces, and a little luck to turn a franchise around. Rah was truly a grave mistake on their part, but in everything else they've done I can see what they're trying to accomplish. It just hasn't panned out the way everybody expected or hoped for.

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DefenseWins

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#8 : September 28, 2013, 01:48:50 PM

Agreed. But that's an excercise in absolute futility. They OWN the team. It's their product. If they choose to run the franchise straight into the ground every year until they're forced to sell it, kudos to them. The only way to change that fact is to buy the team yourself. Don't have the money? Better just carry on with life.


The alternative to facing these facts is to inaccurately and unfairly place all the blame on everyone else. Doesn't seem right or intelligent





It is a new day in TAMPA BAY!    GO BUCS!!

DefenseWins

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#9 : September 28, 2013, 01:53:02 PM

You gonna pony up the dough and buy the team from the Glazer boys? If not, I don't really see how you can "hold them accountable"... Again, this is their team, their franchise, their product. Blaming owners for shortcomings is just something I've never understood. Props to ya OP, stir the collective pot on here and get everybody fired up, but in the end it won't amount to anything. If you're venting, I completely understand. But the culture around here is what it is. The owners aren't likely to change that overnight. Takes a lot of the right pieces, and a little luck to turn a franchise around. Rah was truly a grave mistake on their part, but in everything else they've done I can see what they're trying to accomplish. It just hasn't panned out the way everybody expected or hoped for.


Venting? No.

Regardless of the challenge, we should try to face the truth, regardless of the outcome. 

I don't mean to get all philosophical, but smearing the integrity of people because the challenge of addressing the real issue seems "too insurmountable" is just wrong.





It is a new day in TAMPA BAY!    GO BUCS!!

MUSCLE_HAMSTER

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#10 : September 28, 2013, 01:58:19 PM

lol defense wins


vicious00cycle

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#11 : September 28, 2013, 02:00:05 PM

Agreed. But that's an excercise in absolute futility. They OWN the team. It's their product. If they choose to run the franchise straight into the ground every year until they're forced to sell it, kudos to them. The only way to change that fact is to buy the team yourself. Don't have the money? Better just carry on with life.


The alternative to facing these facts is to inaccurately and unfairly place all the blame on everyone else. Doesn't seem right or intelligent

Oh, I've faced the facts a looooong time ago. The Glazer boys do seem inept at running a professional NFL franchise. But again, I cannot illustrate the point that "It is what it is" enough. We as fans cannot change it, we cannot forcibly remove the Glazers from a position of ownership and put a guy in of OUR choosing. They had the money, they bought the team. It's not a matter of "accepting a losing culture", it's a matter of accepting that which cannot be changed, no matter how frustrating the situation might be. This is their product to us and if we don't like it then we don't have to buy it. Simple as that.

\\\\\\\"He doesn\\\\\\\'t want a people to rule so much as he wants puppets to entertain his madness.\\\\\\\"

Naismith

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#12 : September 28, 2013, 02:04:16 PM

Did not buying it spark the change in spending habits over the last few years?

There\'s a very real chance the Bucs waive [Revis] before next season. At the very least, it will be a discussion worth having.

DefenseWins

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#13 : September 28, 2013, 02:11:12 PM

Agreed. But that's an excercise in absolute futility. They OWN the team. It's their product. If they choose to run the franchise straight into the ground every year until they're forced to sell it, kudos to them. The only way to change that fact is to buy the team yourself. Don't have the money? Better just carry on with life.


The alternative to facing these facts is to inaccurately and unfairly place all the blame on everyone else. Doesn't seem right or intelligent

Oh, I've faced the facts a looooong time ago. The Glazer boys do seem inept at running a professional NFL franchise. But again, I cannot illustrate the point that "It is what it is" enough. We as fans cannot change it, we cannot forcibly remove the Glazers from a position of ownership and put a guy in of OUR choosing. They had the money, they bought the team. It's not a matter of "accepting a losing culture", it's a matter of accepting that which cannot be changed, no matter how frustrating the situation might be. This is their product to us and if we don't like it then we don't have to buy it. Simple as that.

The obvious answer, confront the largest issue: Ownership. That is what it is. It's just a constant fact as I see it. I can't negotiate that.

Fans are stockholders. The media write to serve interests and or what they think will interest the consumer.

If we fans vocalize our grievances with this ownership group, the media sluts will stick their neck out and join in having a more comprehensive view of things.

The alternative, as you suggested, is just to "accept" it as it is, which would make me physically ill. I tend to look at integrity and accountability as essential pieces to living a life of good character. -I can't criticize anyone on this team without recognizing the biggest culprit first, regardless of whether or not I think I'll be on the "winning" side.





It is a new day in TAMPA BAY!    GO BUCS!!

vicious00cycle

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#14 : September 28, 2013, 02:27:33 PM

Agreed. But that's an excercise in absolute futility. They OWN the team. It's their product. If they choose to run the franchise straight into the ground every year until they're forced to sell it, kudos to them. The only way to change that fact is to buy the team yourself. Don't have the money? Better just carry on with life.


The alternative to facing these facts is to inaccurately and unfairly place all the blame on everyone else. Doesn't seem right or intelligent


Oh, I've faced the facts a looooong time ago. The Glazer boys do seem inept at running a professional NFL franchise. But again, I cannot illustrate the point that "It is what it is" enough. We as fans cannot change it, we cannot forcibly remove the Glazers from a position of ownership and put a guy in of OUR choosing. They had the money, they bought the team. It's not a matter of "accepting a losing culture", it's a matter of accepting that which cannot be changed, no matter how frustrating the situation might be. This is their product to us and if we don't like it then we don't have to buy it. Simple as that.

The obvious answer, confront the largest issue: Ownership. That is what it is. It's just a constant fact as I see it. I can't negotiate that.

Fans are stockholders. The media write to serve interests and or what they think will interest the consumer.

If we fans vocalize our grievances with this ownership group, the media sluts will stick their neck out and join in having a more comprehensive view of things.

The alternative, as you suggested, is just to "accept" it as it is, which would make me physically ill. I tend to look at integrity and accountability as essential pieces to living a life of good character. -I can't criticize anyone on this team without recognizing the biggest culprit first, regardless of whether or not I think I'll be on the "winning" side.

It starts from the top, no argument from me on that. We are just sitting on opposite sides of the fence as far as finding a resolution to the problem. I say that patience is required with owners. If you can get everybody on board with a "The Glazers need to resign immediately" movement, go for it. I just don't see that as likely to happen anytime in the near future. As I've said, they are making attempts and getting this ship on the right course, but things aren't panning out.Glazers are young owners that need to learn the reponsibilities that come with their position. Same for Dom. Even for Schiano. The opening of the wallet's the past couple of years and the fact that they decided to lift the blackouts this year are encouraging signs that they may finally be ready to step up to the plate. As far as Dom and Schiano go, well probably best to let this season completely unfold and take a closer look at things once the dust clears.

\\\\\\\"He doesn\\\\\\\'t want a people to rule so much as he wants puppets to entertain his madness.\\\\\\\"
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