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Morgan

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#15 : May 14, 2007, 03:23:54 PM



Or do you want to government totally out of it?
If not, where do you draw the line?


He's just concerned about his ability to drive a gas hog - without concern for what he leaves behind for future generations that follow us.

mjs020294

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#16 : May 14, 2007, 03:26:02 PM

I remember them telling me 25 years ago that the oil would be all gone by today...


At 2003 consumption levels [2], the remaining reserves represent 44.6 years of oil and 66.2 years of natural gas.


[2] U.S. Energy Information Administration, International Energy Annual 2002, March 2004




That doesn't take account of the rapid growth in China and India.  Some projections have China consuming more oil than the rest of the world combined by 2020.


The really worrying thing for the US economy is the disparity between oil production and consumption.  In the last decade imports have steadily risen and it coincides with the slow decline of the average Americans standard of living.






dalbuc

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#17 : May 14, 2007, 03:54:34 PM


Please correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to remember some countries in Europe
having higher gas taxes in order to "encourage" use of public transportation.


The problem is that is workable in Europe. All the cities I've been to there is some practical way to handle transportation. In Dallas, no, not gonna work.  Same thing in places like ATL and Pheonix. American cities aren't scaled to handle non-car environment and the cost of changing that is simply not feasible.

People keep trying to figure out how to keep moving X people around and the goal should be to shrink X so there are fewer people on the roads. There are a raft of jobs that being in the office, or having offices crammed into massive cities, is no longer needed.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.
If you think Manziel is the best QB in this draft I can safely assume you are an idiot and will treat you as such.

ufojoe

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#18 : May 14, 2007, 03:45:22 PM

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0826/p01s03-woeu.html

Decent article from 2005 on gas prices and fuel efficiency and Europe and taxes.

This is not an easy thing to deal with, obviously. We should have had alternative
technology R & D dedicated to this problem a long time ago. For me, the pollution
problem is the biggest issue. Global warming? I don't know. So I won't go there.

We Americans just don't want to change our ways. Me too.

I feel for the tall people who can't drive a small car. So there have be options for
them if we eventually ban the SUVs or biggest polluters.

In LA, I can take a bus or drive to the train station. I refuse to take a train because
I do not want to be trapped on one of those things if an earthquake occurs. The
bus? I have no excuse. Unless I'm going to a job at a residence and the bus
doesn't go there. 95% of my jobs are out of state so my issue would be how
to get there without flying and polluting the hell out of the planet. I am
part of the problem. Damn it. What to do?

I think we are screwed. We should have (and could have, IMO) replaced the
combustion engine a long time ago. But we didn't. Now we just have to do our
best to try to reduce the problems that future generations will face. And if
government legislation is what it takes, then so be it.

Eventually, we may wind up like China and only be allowed one child per couple.
Or maybe some families will stop having 8 kids all on our own.

Yeah right.

OK, that last part was off on a tangent a bit...

Buc Wylde

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#19 : May 14, 2007, 03:45:44 PM

Good luck with that Hybrid car bucwilde - it will cost you MUCH more, offer MUCH less, and you will be overall less satisfied. Most hybrids actually consume MORE gasoline because the gas engine is so small it is underpowered on long distance trips is less fuel efficient. Battery's rely on braking often and thusly only pay off while driving in cities.

Yeah, thats what I have been reading. I'll probably just have to deal with 16 to 20mpg in my Explorer or get a smaller vehicle with better mileage.

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ufojoe

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#20 : May 14, 2007, 03:48:21 PM

I was disappointed to read how ineffective the hybrids really are. I'm hoping the electric cars
drop in price real soon. Some great cars on the market now. Just way too expensive, as all
new technology tends to be.

mjs020294

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#21 : May 14, 2007, 03:50:18 PM


Diesel is the way to go, especially for heavy SUVs and Trucks.


The Mercedes 3.0-liter V6 in the E320 BLUETEC sedan, as the diesel version is called, puts out an amazing 388 lb-ft of torque starting as low as 1600 rpm and compares with the 258 lb-ft of torque starting at 2400 rpm in the 3.5-liter V6 gasoline engine in the E350 sedan.

The diesel E-Class's fuel economy rating is 26/35 mpg, for a combined 30 mpg, and compares with 19/26, for a combined 21 mpg, in the gasoline E350.




ufojoe

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#22 : May 14, 2007, 03:57:03 PM

Diesel won't do much to solve the health problems. I cut and paste this article together and
it makes it look like diesel is responsible for the 5400 deaths. It's not. But it may play a role.
I am not up on the studies on that.

http://www.sgvtribune.com/ci_5883202?source=most_viewed

...Last Thursday, the day San Bernardino County Supervisor Gary Ovitt was sworn in as the new president of SCAG, the organization voted to urge President Bush and Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger to declare a state of emergency in the region because of more than 5,400 annual premature deaths that the state has estimated are linked to air pollution.

"These are invisible deaths," Ovitt said. "We need to get across that this needs to be dealt with right away..."

...Unfortunately for the San Gabriel Valley, a great deal of diesel pollution accompanies the movement of goods through Southern California. The shipment of Asian goods to the ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach and then through our region keeps prices low for American consumers, but we pay a price in terms of air pollution and adverse health effects, such as childhood asthma.

Diesel particulate matter, primarily from trains and old, dirty-running trucks, has been found to reduce the lung capacity of children here (as longitudinal studies have shown in Glendora and San Dimas, for example) - and probably doesn't help adult lungs much, either.

That's why it behooves SCAG to go on record that air pollution constitutes a health emergency, even if the state and federal governments have no inclination to declare a state of emergency.

ufojoe

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#23 : May 14, 2007, 03:59:07 PM


Please correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to remember some countries in Europe
having higher gas taxes in order to "encourage" use of public transportation.


The problem is that is workable in Europe. All the cities I've been to there is some practical way to handle transportation. In Dallas, no, not gonna work.  Same thing in places like ATL and Pheonix. American cities aren't scaled to handle non-car environment and the cost of changing that is simply not feasible.

People keep trying to figure out how to keep moving X people around and the goal should be to shrink X so there are fewer people on the roads. There are a raft of jobs that being in the office, or having offices crammed into massive cities, is no longer needed.

Yeah, the differences in American vs. European cities is mentioned in that CS article.

Let's reduce X people by implementing a Logan's Run rule. Nobody over 30 is allowed.
We'll send you to Sanctuary once you reach 30.

Or, you can work from home

mjs020294

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#24 : May 14, 2007, 04:03:19 PM

Modern diesel cars have filters and the exhaust emmisions are pretty clean.  


ufojoe

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#25 : May 14, 2007, 04:10:16 PM

I just don't know enough about diesel. I see this info. and see the improvements but is
enough? The new rules have only been in place for a year...

It may help but I still think we need to pour tons of money into R & D and do away with
our need for oil once and for all.

We can do it if we really want to and really try.

http://origin.mercurynews.com/politics/ci_5886547

Medical studies have shown with growing certainty in recent years that diesel soot, which contains more than 40 carcinogens, can exacerbate asthma, emphysema and other respiratory problems.

An estimated 8,200 deaths a year in California from heart ailments and lung problems are associated with exposure to particle air pollution, according to a study earlier this year by scientists at the California Office of Environmental Health Hazard Assessment. The study was published in the journal Environmental Health Perspectives.

Since the late 1990s, the California air board and the federal Environmental Protection Agency have passed several strict new rules to reduce diesel soot. In fact, diesel is the one area of air pollution regulation that has won the Bush administration praise from environmental groups. Last year, new federal rules required all diesel fuel sold in the United States to cut sulfur concentrations by 97percent.

Similarly, state and federal regulators have mandated that manufacturers make cleaner diesel engines for trucks, buses, locomotives, ships and portable generators. But those rules only set standards for new engines.

The California rule on construction vehicles would, for the first time, be retroactive.

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#26 : May 14, 2007, 04:18:52 PM

70% of vehicles in France are diesel and there have been no reports of adverse effects on health over there. 

A lot of the problem is related to the pre-2006 limit of 500-ppm on sulfur content in U.S. diesel fuels.  That is now 15 ppm, and believe some of the newer diesel engines put less than 2 ppm of sulfar.


dalbuc

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#27 : May 14, 2007, 04:19:17 PM


Let's reduce X people by implementing a Logan's Run rule. Nobody over 30 is allowed.
We'll send you to Sanctuary once you reach 30.

Or, you can work from home

Now that I'm over 30 I'm more for the work from home thing. I know you can be renewed but since I've never seen anyone make it I think I'll pass on carousel this year.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.
If you think Manziel is the best QB in this draft I can safely assume you are an idiot and will treat you as such.

ufojoe

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#28 : May 14, 2007, 04:29:45 PM

We'd be Runners together.

I interviewed Michael York when he did some one man play in Brooklyn.
Of course, I threw in some Logan's Run questions. He was polite but really didn't
seem to thrilled to be talking about it.

The White Tiger

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#29 : May 14, 2007, 04:42:05 PM

No - clearly, what sets us apart is our ability to regulate ourselves. I remain unconvinced that the current consumption rates have us running out of fuel in 44.6 years. That is incredibly laughable...it's always just out of reach and entirely unprovable - so we all follow like sheep. Want to know where record profits are going:

http://www.uofaweb.ualberta.ca/chinainstitute/nav03.cfm?nav03=43289&nav02=43263&nav01=43092

"Two-thirds of the oil-and-gas reserves discovered globally in 2002 and 2003 were in water 1,200 feet or deeper, according to a joint study by energy consultancies Wood MacKenzie and Fugro Robertson, underscoring the intense competition to lock up acreage and develop technology to tap into these new fields.

But the risks in going after oil in deep water are huge. Oil companies are spending tens of millions of dollars on unproven fields. Unocal's Trident well, which hit oil-soaked rocks 20,000 feet below the seafloor, took 66 days to drill and cost $34 million; other wells can cost considerably more."

If anyone is interested here is an interesting article on status of oil reserves, the size of the Gulf of Mexico reserve and some interesting information that "fossil" fuels aren't from fossils, but are naturally produced:

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51837

Not saying it's any more true than the stuff we've been taught to believe, but what if....

In the meantime - I'm sure buggy whip manufacturers were sitting pretty just before the dawn of the automobile too...technology ALWAYS yields something new. So much of the world economic environment is so dependent on the infrastructure and finances of an exisitng market (fossil fuels). If we changed to something new overnight it would throw the worlds economies into chaos. The migration has begun, the ease of developing new fuel blends, more efficient engines, hybrids and fuel cell technology will dictate the pace and the players.

I agree with dalbuc (again?) we need to be less particular about where we find new oil fields and act quickly to develop them. We already have a severe challenge to the oil rights in our own backyard. China signs contracts with the Cuba (et al) to do angled drilling to get to the vast Gulf of Mexico reserves we refuse to go after:

http://www.uofaweb.ualberta.ca/chinainstitute/nav03.cfm?nav03=54382&nav02=43813&nav01=43092

I too work from home, and am finding that my company wnats me to drive less, utilize the phone more and save money and resources as much as possible. I also want to save my most precious resource, my time. This is all done without a government telling us to...wow, a country of grown ups, imagine....


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