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spartan

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#30 : May 14, 2007, 04:46:00 PM

Big Oil is such an easy target. What people don't know or forget is that the Oil Companies have one of, if not the lowest profit margins. It is not the price they are charging that is generating them so much profits but the amount of oil WE consume. Before folks start making pariahs out of the Oil Companies I think they ought to take a look in a mirror first.

From a pollution perspective, again the car is the vilified villain but heating, lighting and cooling your home expends somewhere in the region of 4-5 times the amount of energy in a year that a single car will put out. Making our houses more energy efficient will do a lot more towards cutting back pollution and reducing energy bills than making cars more fuel efficient ever will.

dalbuc

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#31 : May 14, 2007, 04:56:47 PM

Big Oil is such an easy target. What people don't know or forget is that the Oil Companies have one of, if not the lowest profit margins. It is not the price they are charging that is generating them so much profits but the amount of oil WE consume. Before folks start making pariahs out of the Oil Companies I think they ought to take a look in a mirror first.

From a pollution perspective, again the car is the vilified villain but heating, lighting and cooling your home expends somewhere in the region of 4-5 times the amount of energy in a year that a single car will put out. Making our houses more energy efficient will do a lot more towards cutting back pollution and reducing energy bills than making cars more fuel efficient ever will.

1. It is easy to blame big oil and not ourselves.

2. While pollution-wise home energy is huge it also tedns to not run off of oil. I know you said pollution-based so you weren't implying it would. Home powering is one area where you can make a good difference. solar powered water heaters and the future with the new solar technologies can hopefully help to start to move a percentage of home us off the grid.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

ufojoe

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#32 : May 14, 2007, 05:06:00 PM

This is all done without a government telling us to...wow, a country of grown ups, imagine....

I think we've seen time and time again that we are our country lacking in grown ups.
I wish I could imagine what you suggest Buc but I just can't see it. Too many dumb
people in the way blocking my view.

I'm not worried about running out of oil. If that comes close to happening, you'll see all
kinds of new technologies popping up. If we keep looking for new places to drill for oil,
we'll never go all out with our push for electric cars or even better stuff like solar, wind,
etc... Let's not wait until we HAVE to do it. Let's be preemptive here.

Does anybody else feel that pumping $$$ into R & D of better batteries for electric
cars or better alternative technologies overall is the right way to get away from oil?
Let's take the money used in Iraq and use it on R & D. We'd have a solution to our
oil addiction sooner rather than later. IMO.

Yes, it's our own fault for waiting so long. All these years we trusted that our leaders
would do what's best for us and for all of humanity.

Fool me once, shame on....you. Fool me....

We won't get fooled again!

No more vested interests!

spartan

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#33 : May 14, 2007, 05:12:46 PM


Let's take the money used in Iraq and use it on R & D. We'd have a solution to our oil addiction sooner rather than later. IMO.


Actually Joe, if we stay in Iraq it will solve both of those problems in a quicker time frame. Tanks and AVF's use a TON of gas. If we keep them there we will chew up the Oil supplies in no time. Then, we will HAVE to come up with alternative energy sources, AND because there will be no BIG OIL nobody will give a crap about the Middle East and we leave. AND because Iran will be bankrupt they won't be able to buy or build any Nuclear weapons.

Hey, world peace and a cleaner environment. What more could you possibly ask for?

ufojoe

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#34 : May 14, 2007, 05:20:34 PM

We should probably send troops to Venezuela to speed up the process. Lots of oil!

 

The White Tiger

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#35 : May 14, 2007, 05:42:41 PM

Governmental agencies offering rebates to get people to check into energy alternatives is the way it should be handled. Forcing people to obey should be a position of last resort. I have a friend in the alternative enrgy market that I really would love to see do well. He manufactures solar panel systems for solar water heaters and solar powered homes. He has given me information which shows a 30% reduction in electricity bills - all from savings garnered from solar water heaters.

Here is a link for Solar water heater info: http://www.aetsolar.com/About_AET/company_profile.htm

He tells me the state of Florida coupled with Federal grants and rebates and tax credits total in excess of 50% cost reduction for intstallation. And the rest can be made up within 1-3 years! I'm having one installed, that's after I've upgraded my hvac system, new roof and additional insullation in my roof. This has netted a 15% to 20% reduction in my energy consumption footprint. I am also planning to upgrade my windows for further savings- what are you doing?

As far as my SUV costing so much that my children will be left with nothing - I remember my fathers Suburban getting 4 miles to the gallon in 1974 (and that was after a tune up). My Expedition gets 16 miles to the gallon - look how much I've saved him already...who knows what additional savings technology will avail him later.

Like I said - trust but verify (one hand on wallet, other on voters registration) - or enjoy being a sheep!

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dalbuc

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#36 : May 14, 2007, 06:35:00 PM

News on the hybrids today, their gas milages are being adjusted down to reflect more real-world driving:

http://www.wired.com/cars/futuretransport/news/2007/05/hybrid_mpg

"Hybrid vehicle performance was previously overestimated partly because the tests included vehicles' idling for long periods, causing many hybrids to shut down their engines to conserve fuel. The old testing methodology registered "a higher fuel economy for hybrid vehicles than is achieved under typical driving conditions," according to EPA documents."

This methodology also, BTW, affects all types of cars not just hybrids but the effect on them in more dramatic. The Honda Civic lost 5 mpg but the Hybrid lost 11 mpg.

The net effect, also, is that the gas milage on our cars isn't as good as a lot of folks thought it was anyways.


All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

rayfsc07

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#37 : May 14, 2007, 06:41:27 PM

A guy got canned for emailing this to the entire department.

ufojoe

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#38 : May 14, 2007, 07:25:03 PM

So much for me buying a hybrid...

* * * * *

Nothing really new in this article but there is a new electric car that I hadn't heard about.
Very affordable. But it only gets 30-40 miles per charge and only goes 25 mph tops.
In other words, very limited use.

Building Cars for Tree-huggers

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6653913.stm



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#39 : May 14, 2007, 07:49:56 PM

Don't let them talk you out of the birth right your brothers died to give you!

They died so we could arrogantly barrel down the road in giant SUV's? I think not. Way to cheapen their contribution.


The White Tiger

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#40 : May 14, 2007, 10:47:45 PM

No the birth right is to question those that ridicule others yet are hypocrites in their own lives. I have listed my efforts to conserve, I did not catch yours. I do not believe the tripe you believe. I have provided the facts for which I make my decision

Also, way to try to lessen the impact of the rest of my post, I'm almost tempted to call you a sheep - I'm sure it's just that you can't know me - and you're only reacting to what you feel is arrogance.

My message is not that we shouldn't be aware and contribute - it is to simply not believe blindly the word of someone else. Investigate. I will drive my SUV proudly. I should not feel guilty about my comfort just because I have no carbon offsets to make me feel like I've suffered vicariously through others contributions.

I'll just ride around in comfort confident in the knowledge that the lies others tell themselves to feel better about suffering in an inconvenient lie, is just that - a lie. Driving today in an SUV that some brilliant scientist slaved to improve gas mileage from 4 miles a gallon to 16 while improving towing efficiency, power displacement and overall ride, leaves me feeling all warm and fuzzy inside!

That is enough for me - why should I not support that scientists drive and brilliance. You drive those elctric cars that have been proven LESS efficient than my SUV on this very page.

What if what you believe is not true? What if oil is a renewable resource?

Just imagine the power that would be wrested from those that would have you believe otherwise....

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ufojoe

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#41 : May 15, 2007, 12:16:18 AM

What lies do others tell themselves?

I don't see the other options (electric) being affordable right now so there's not
much to talk about when it comes to what we drive.

Now, driving a Hummer? THAT, to me, is excessive and not needed. But hey,
if you're a businessman, you get a nice tax break if you buy one! Buy an
electric? No break. And that is brought up in my must read thread.

That only 12 people have read! :-(

The White Tiger

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#42 : May 15, 2007, 12:20:55 AM

What lie ? I thought I made that clear here is my quote to that effect:

"I should not feel guilty about my comfort just because I have no carbon offsets to make me feel like I've suffered vicariously through others contributions."

Joe, i give you this, you present evidence for others to consider and for that I appreciate your posts.

I try to do the same. We don't come from the same side of the issues - but I appreciate your honesty and earnestness.

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ufojoe

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#43 : May 15, 2007, 12:31:45 AM

Buc, I'm still not clear on the lie. I'm dense. Sorry. Not trying to bait you.

You mean the supposed lie that we're contributing to GW or that the carbon credits
thing is a farce?

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#44 : May 15, 2007, 12:40:30 AM

Carbon credits are a joke.

Humanity's contribution to GW is minimal. 



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