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GrudenFan63

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#15 : October 31, 2006, 12:02:48 PM

I don't think you can fault a coach all the time for a player's poor execution. However, 9 times out of 10, when a team falls below expectations, it's the coach who takes the fall. It doesn't matter if it's right or wrong; it's the coach who generally takes the fall.

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SCBUCFAN

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#16 : October 31, 2006, 12:04:10 PM

it is always easier to call someone out after the fact.

How can you call them out before the fact if it hasn't happened yet? ;)

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#17 : October 31, 2006, 12:09:01 PM

Look around the league, who in the hell runs the ball down two TDs?

A good example would be the Dallas/Carolina game.  Dallas was down 14-0 at the end of the first quarter.  Instead of panicking and going pass-whacky, they used a balanced attack (4 runs/5 passes) to go 14-7, then went balanced again on their next possession (6 runs, 7 passes) to get a FG for 14-10.  Dallas went on to win 35-14.  Instead of abandoning his game plan when they were down by two touchdowns, Parcells kept a balanced attack that kept his offense from being one-sided, which helped his young, mobile QB stay effective.


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#18 : October 31, 2006, 12:12:10 PM

Why do you guys feel the need to defend him?  Especially in the face of "reality".  JG isn't going anywhere today.  Nor will they kick him to the curb after this season.  For you "Half Empty" guys, sure the team sucks right now and there are question marks abound.  However, as a whole I'd say this second qtr of the season has been "competitive" compared to the first 4 games.  Far from vying for a playoff spot, but at least competitive. 

We can argue about game plans all day long, but I love how you all give no respect or credence to the other team for enforcing their will against ours.  That's not an excuse it's fact.  I have to agree with JG for playing the "wind" factor to some degree.  It was obvious to me that we only had a two qtr window to exploit what passing game we could muster.  Coupled with the fact that you only get about 5 or 6 opportunities to make a big play on offense I'd say he called it about right.  If you need a goat, just check out Galloway and Clayton.  Is is all their fault, no.  However, I'm sure those catches, instead of drops, could have been game changing plays and we'd not be calling for the coaches head yet after another loss. 

Coach has a lot of culpability here.  But calling for his dismissal IMO is just kind of lame.  We've made changes to critical areas.  The whole oline is young and gaining valuable experience.  They've obviously not come together yet but I suspect if they continue to play together they will.  Only thing I can get from the Mahan deal is the fact that Dan is probably hurt more than we know or are privy too.  Grads is a rookie.  That's not to say we shouldn't have expectations of him, but by my measure he's done what the coach has asked him to do.  Protect the football, don't turn it over, and try to make a play when you can.  What else can you ask of a 6th round draft choice from the MAC conference that's only been in this offense for 6 months? Caddy and A. Smith are second year guys and Clayton is a third year guy.  Still babies in a league that covets youth but shuns it for experience, most often.  Remember only less than 1% get the opportunity to try to make it to the show. And even then, not all of them make it. 

This is where we come to voice our opinions and vent our frustrations, but let's try to keep some perspective guys.  It's not a coaches problem, or a defensive problem, or an offensive problem.  The Buccaneers have problems.  They have critical break downs on both sides of the ball which affect them at that time in the game and affects the other side of the ball as well.  Personally, I don't think one is anymore glaring than the other, especially when you contemplate that you always have 11 guys out there at one time and they all have to work in concert to get one play correct, much less string them together into a drive and then score...

No doubt we've been spoiled with a trophy and it hurts to see us struggle.  But patience must be your mantra as the true "realistic/educated" fan.   All else is venom spewed on a team that has already been bitten enough...don't you think?

Without Carl Nix it feels like our running game just took a death blow to the face!


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#19 : October 31, 2006, 12:16:15 PM

If Les Steckel is the standard on offense that Gruden has to surpass then  he has to realize that Carnell has to be part of that plan.  Steckel's offense was very big on using the running game.  As a result it opened up a lot of things in the passing game.  Gruden did this in the New Orleans game but ever since then he has deviated from that formula that worked.

Gruden called one roll out for Grads but as soon as the Giants blitzed Gruden gave up on moving Grads out of the pocket for the rest of that game.  Look at how the Texans and Broncos offense function when they move the QB around.  Look at how effective the Bucs offense was when Grads moved around in the New Orleans game.

Andy Reid may be pass happy a bit too much but he does move McNabb around.


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#20 : October 31, 2006, 12:19:46 PM

I will agree on the rolling of Grads.  I love the Way Denver runs the misdirection having the Snake out on the naked. However, they have a running game that proliferates that as well.  However, I'd love to see Grads rolling with an option to run the ball...not option play like Vick, just to have the option to run it if theres nothing there...

Without Carl Nix it feels like our running game just took a death blow to the face!


GrudenFan63

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#21 : October 31, 2006, 12:21:19 PM

Chev, I agree with you. But like I said before, when a team fails, it's usually the coach who takes the fall. It doesn't matter if that coach has won a title; or multiple titles. If a team performs under given expectations for a period of time; it's the coach who generally is either fired or parts ways with the franchise. It's just a business. Gruden will, in my opinion, be spending this off-season in Tampa. I believe that. However, I don't think that off-season of 2007 is in cement right now. I think he needs to prove himself in 2007 if he wants to spend that off-season in Tampa as coach of the Bucs; and that's my opinion. I don't see two sets of back-to-back losing seasons satisfying the Glazer family.

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keeponbucn

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#22 : October 31, 2006, 12:25:35 PM

good statement, players are accountable for the loss, but you do have to question some of Gruden's playcalling

No coach is going to call the right play 100% of the time.  In fact, many plays a coach calls will fizzle out.  It's just the way it is.  But in the end, the better coach is the one who calls the plays that win the game.  Even if you call 100 plays, and 99 stink, but the 100th wins the game, you're a winner.  The line is that thin.  If the players had executed the way they ARE PAID TO DO, and the Bucs come out on top 20-17, we would be talking Coach of the Year honors for Gruden about now....


I can name a bunch of clowns on here that would.

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#23 : October 31, 2006, 12:25:58 PM

Did anyone call for Gruden to be fired in this thread?  Anyone who calls for a Gruden to get fired is foolish IMO.  I do think he needs to get on his game but you could say that about the entire team.  Right now I am not looking for wins just improvement.  If our team is a running team "pound the rock" it needs to stick to its identity.   I just want to see more running by Grad/Caddy/Sowell(where has this guy gone?).  I would say A-train but it doesn't seem like he has anything left.

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#24 : October 31, 2006, 12:26:36 PM

I will agree on the rolling of Grads.  I love the Way Denver runs the misdirection having the Snake out on the naked. However, they have a running game that proliferates that as well.  However, I'd love to see Grads rolling with an option to run the ball...not option play like Vick, just to have the option to run it if theres nothing there...

Les Steckel did this often with Shaun King leading his offense. 

People say the Bucs do not have the personnel to run the offense but at this point Gruden has all the pieces in my very honest opinion.  Gruden showed that he has more in his playbook in the New Orleans game and a QB that can move.  But why deviate from it and go vanilla?

This goes back to the problems some people had with Tony.  Calling vanilla plays and expecting to beat the person opposite of you.  As Chev put it the Giants beat the  Bucs.

But it would have helped if the Bucs were not so vanilla looking against the Giants.  We saw glimpses of variety in the second quarter bu once again the Bucs went back into a shell in the second half.


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#25 : October 31, 2006, 12:29:09 PM

I will agree on the rolling of Grads. I love the Way Denver runs the misdirection having the Snake out on the naked. However, they have a running game that proliferates that as well. However, I'd love to see Grads rolling with an option to run the ball...not option play like Vick, just to have the option to run it if theres nothing there...

Les Steckel did this often with Shaun King leading his offense.

People say the Bucs do not have the personnel to run the offense but at this point Gruden has all the pieces in my very honest opinion. Gruden showed that he has more in his playbook in the New Orleans game and a QB that can move. But why deviate from it and go vanilla?

This goes back to the problems some people had with Tony. Calling vanilla plays and expecting to beat the person opposite of you. As Chev put it the Giants beat the Bucs.

But it would have helped if the Bucs were not so vanilla looking against the Giants. We saw glimpses of variety in the second quarter bu once again the Bucs went back into a shell in the second half.



This vanilla might be explained because they had two weeks to prepare for the saints and only one week to prepare for the other games.  More time to put in better plays with a rookie at QB.

CeriousBuc

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#26 : October 31, 2006, 12:31:21 PM

Look around the league, who in the hell runs the ball down two TDs?

A good example would be the Dallas/Carolina game.  Dallas was down 14-0 at the end of the first quarter.  Instead of panicking and going pass-whacky, they used a balanced attack (4 runs/5 passes) to go 14-7, then went balanced again on their next possession (6 runs, 7 passes) to get a FG for 14-10.  Dallas went on to win 35-14.  Instead of abandoning his game plan when they were down by two touchdowns, Parcells kept a balanced attack that kept his offense from being one-sided, which helped his young, mobile QB stay effective.

That is somewhat misleading there bradentonian. For one Dallas scored early in the second quarter on a drive that started in the 1st quarter. Also Dallas had success on their second drive, and 9 play/52 yard drive that ended with a Vanderjac miss.

The Bucs had nothing going late into the second quarter, major difference IMO.

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#27 : October 31, 2006, 12:32:02 PM

Chev, I agree with you. But like I said before, when a team fails, it's usually the coach who takes the fall. It doesn't matter if that coach has won a title; or multiple titles. If a team performs under given expectations for a period of time; it's the coach who generally is either fired or parts ways with the franchise. It's just a business. Gruden will, in my opinion, be spending this off-season in Tampa. I believe that. However, I don't think that off-season of 2007 is in cement right now. I think he needs to prove himself in 2007 if he wants to spend that off-season in Tampa as coach of the Bucs; and that's my opinion. I don't see two sets of back-to-back losing seasons satisfying the Glazer family.

I don't think he has to prove anything.  What some deem as garbage or trash (half-empty), others deem as potential or a learning experience (half-full).  I'm not knocking anybody's perspective.  I'm just pointing out the positive in what I see...

Without Carl Nix it feels like our running game just took a death blow to the face!


GrudenFan63

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#28 : October 31, 2006, 12:34:45 PM

Chev, I agree with you. But like I said before, when a team fails, it's usually the coach who takes the fall. It doesn't matter if that coach has won a title; or multiple titles. If a team performs under given expectations for a period of time; it's the coach who generally is either fired or parts ways with the franchise. It's just a business. Gruden will, in my opinion, be spending this off-season in Tampa. I believe that. However, I don't think that off-season of 2007 is in cement right now. I think he needs to prove himself in 2007 if he wants to spend that off-season in Tampa as coach of the Bucs; and that's my opinion. I don't see two sets of back-to-back losing seasons satisfying the Glazer family.

I don't think he has to prove anything.  What some deem as garbage or trash (half-empty), others deem as potential or a learning experience (half-full).  I'm not knocking anybody's perspective.  I'm just pointing out the positive in what I see...

I agree with the half-full attitude on life. But, I also think there's only so many times you can break your arm before you quit climbing that tree.  ;) I understand what you're saying though.

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alldaway

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#29 : October 31, 2006, 12:39:50 PM

I will agree on the rolling of Grads. I love the Way Denver runs the misdirection having the Snake out on the naked. However, they have a running game that proliferates that as well. However, I'd love to see Grads rolling with an option to run the ball...not option play like Vick, just to have the option to run it if theres nothing there...

Les Steckel did this often with Shaun King leading his offense.

People say the Bucs do not have the personnel to run the offense but at this point Gruden has all the pieces in my very honest opinion. Gruden showed that he has more in his playbook in the New Orleans game and a QB that can move. But why deviate from it and go vanilla?

This goes back to the problems some people had with Tony. Calling vanilla plays and expecting to beat the person opposite of you. As Chev put it the Giants beat the Bucs.

But it would have helped if the Bucs were not so vanilla looking against the Giants. We saw glimpses of variety in the second quarter bu once again the Bucs went back into a shell in the second half.



This vanilla might be explained because they had two weeks to prepare for the saints and only one week to prepare for the other games.  More time to put in better plays with a rookie at QB.

But here is the thing though.  Did Grads forget those plays from the New Orleans game all of sudden?  The rest of the offense most likely has seen these plays in practice all of the off season and the exectuted them on gameday in N.O..  Heck since Grads took most of the reps as the #2 I would dare say what is there to implement?

Seriously?  The game of football offers only one week of prepartion most of the time and with three games in a short time span coming up for the Bucs it is inexcusable not to have an offense ready to play.

Understandable that you have a rookie but in the end Grads PROVED he can run those plays in the New Orleans game. 

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