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Boid Fink

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« #60 : November 07, 2006, 03:11:55 PM »

If Gruden is smart, he will draft defense.  The front four is abysmal, the linebackers are grey, and the safeties are the worst tandem in the NFL.  And Phillips has been playing in this system for a while now, he has no excuses, and has shown the best he has to offer.  He is consistently a non-factor, and a liability.


gone

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« #61 : November 07, 2006, 03:34:58 PM »

    We haven't taken a defensive player in the first round since 1998. We have drafted a young core group of players on offense. We can round out that unit with free agents. Its time we put together a young core on defense. I would look at drafting the best defensive player available. Hopefully a lineman. He need a line that can pressure the passer and force sacks and turnovers. Remeber that long streak of sacks and interceptions. That was from QB pressure by Sapp, Rice, etc. I like these guys:
  1st Round: Gaines Adams DE
  2nd Round: Rufus Alexander WLB
  2nd Round: Eric Weddle S
  3rd Round: Marcus Thomas DT (if he straightens up and shows something in the interviews)

Calvin Johnson and Joe Thomas are good players but spending more first day draft picks on wide receivers and o lineman would look like Matt Millen was running our drafts.
It all depends on what we get or think we'll get in FA.  We need a pass rushing DT (for UT) on defense badly, unless Wyms explodes.  I also think no way in hell do we use our top 4 picks on D.  I would tend to doubt drafting a WLB with our second pick too, I'm pretty sure the club feels we already have DB's replacement in Winborn.  It would make more sense to look at a Needs List rather than a draft:
1) DT
2) S
3) CB
4) LT
5) WR (speed)
6) DE
7) C
8 ) FB

I think we will definitely NOT be going QB.  Simply put If grads isn't the future, then Gru doesn't have time to groom another rook, he needs a vet.  And with all the other holes we have, we won't likely waste those picks.
I don't like WR being that high, but Joey won't last forever, and we don't have a gamebreaker other than him.  If he goes down we'd look like Hilliard/Clay or Clay/Stovall or some other even less appetizing combo.  I wouldn't be happy about it but it wouldn't surprise me to see us pull one in round one if we can't land a vet. 
The list isn't necessarily what we'd draft, but it's what looks like (to me) our most pressing needs.

Off the list I'd say we need a new O-Line coach.


acacius

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« #62 : November 07, 2006, 04:42:34 PM »

It all depends on what we get or think we'll get in FA.

It also depends on just who's available.  With the way the draft board looks right now (which will probably bear little resemblance to the draft boards in April, I'll grant you), we might have a hard time finding good defensive value at our pick if Adams is already off the board.  I definitely want to see the team focus on the defense this offseason myself, but team will have to work with the options that are available.  Especially if, as you note, the team does reasonable well in FA, taking a bit of the need-pressure off our draft picks.



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« #63 : November 07, 2006, 10:38:32 PM »

If no FA LT is brought in, draft Levi Brown

nickerson56

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« #64 : November 08, 2006, 02:45:58 AM »

I like Levi Brown too.  I hope Tampa goes with either Brown or Thomas in Rd 1.  Actually, I can tolerate the Bucs going in any direction in Rd 1 as long as its not QB (no Quinn!!!) RB (Caddy) G (Matt Millen factor) or K/P (Raiders factor).

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« #65 : November 08, 2006, 02:58:27 AM »

It goes like this with QB's... You cannot win unless you are willing to lose. You can't not draft a QB because "maybe he won't be good". You need a QB you have to get a QB. Do I want one, no, do we need one, yes. I would personally like to get rid of Brian Kelly (who I have always liked) and Simeon Rice (who I always have liked) for one reason, we have got to rebuild this defense. We have to get rid of these guys while they are still of some value.

3 weeks ago I never thought about taking a QB, I think its def a possibility. I would still like to see the Bucs go Joe Thomas R1 (soley because you have several good DE's in Woodley, Adams, Moses, Bruce) but I love Gaines Adams here too, Aaron Rouse SS R2, Marcus Thomas DT or Mkristo Bruce DE in R2( we get an extra from indy) .

That would give us a legit LT, a stud SS , a Dominant interior DT or a legit pass rushing DE to add to the defense and a cornerstone for the offense, not to mention who we can get in FA being close to $30 Million under the cap.

The funny thing about Rice is the argument had here last year about him and his value. People thought we could get a 1st, or in a much more comical discussion, Phillip Rivers for him. Many argued he was still in top shape, a demon rushing the passer, and a key part of the defense and playoff contender that was the Bucs of 05. Fast forward to this year and everyone would kill for a 1st for Rice and his value (IMO at least) is much lower than it might have been last year.

Also, a dominant interior DT? Overselling Thomas a bit? I'm starting to hate this guy because too many Bucs fans are overhyping him like he's then Gaines Adams of DTs. He's not that good AND he got kicked off the team. If I hear his name 15,000 more times here, I think I'm going to have to kidnap him just to get some MB peace.

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« #66 : November 08, 2006, 08:55:47 AM »

Yes Rices value is not what it was at this time last year, no question. We should take what we can get for him IMHO because we have to turn the corner with youth on defense. What is the sense in keeping a 30 something year old speed DE who will only get slower with time?

I have seen Marcus Thomas play several games this year and he has looked very good to me from what I have seen. Yeah throw in the headcase to his resume and he is less attractive. you can get a guy to quit smoking marijane and rush the QB for a few million dollars a year (warren sapp).



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« #67 : November 08, 2006, 09:27:39 AM »

I think its obvious that unless you have a top 5  D (which it looks like those days have passed us), you will not win without a great QB. Grads has already proven he is no Tom Brady, so there goes the lightning hitting twice BS. There are no good QB's in FA, I think a QB is very possible with a good coach, but Gruden may want to put all his eggs in Grad's basket, but at the same time if he does draft a QB, he will have a few more years at least. If he keeps Grad's and passes on a good QB in the draft and Grad's does not pan out and we have yet another bad season,

A 1st round QB will probably mean two more losing seasons, and they might not even pan out.

BTW – Brady didn’t play his rookie year and he was thrown behind a much better O-line when he did play. Obviously Grads isn’t another Tom Brady, but a number one draft pick probably wouldn't be either. ;)


Look at this team.  Unless we hit it HUGE in free agency, we're going to be losing for 2 more seasons anyway.  We have too many holes for a repeat of one player (Cadillac) turning the whole team around.

cvillebucfan

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« #68 : November 08, 2006, 09:37:51 AM »

Leeroybuc, great point!!!!! We will be losing for the next 2 seasons.



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leeroybuc93

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« #69 : November 08, 2006, 09:44:21 AM »

Leeroybuc, great point!!!!! We will be losing for the next 2 seasons.

Well I think it's a correct point, but I hate to call it great.  :(

cvillebucfan

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« #70 : November 08, 2006, 10:02:46 AM »

I don't want a QB either but hell as you said, we will be losing anyway.

I mean we can turn it around quickly but I think the age on the defense is the most ominous sign. That will take some time to get fixed up.



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CeriousBuc

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« #71 : November 08, 2006, 10:58:23 AM »

The Trenches Gentlemen! It's all about the trenches...

Until we fix the trenches we will not be able to run the ball or stop the run consistently. Until we fix the trenches we will not be able to pass to WRs or generate an effective pass rush. That being said our focus this offseason (free agency and draft) should be to address those areas first.

As much as I like Calvin Johnson, unless we have the number one overall pick we should be looking to draft Joe Thomas or Gaines Adams with a Top 5 pick. At this rate, however, we may end up with the 1st or second pick in the draft and at that point you draft the best player in the draft unless someone is willing to come up with the picks to pry him out of your cold dead hands.

Barring having the 1st or 2nd pick overall here's how I'd like to see our draft pan out:

1st round: OT/DE Joe Thomas or Gaines Adams I don't think you could go wrong with either pick. Thomas anchors our OL for the next 10 years or Adams gives us a legit pass rush/run stopper on the edge.

2nd round A: DT/LB/C there's a monster center down at Fresno state by the name of Kyle Young, but I couldn't tell you which DT would be the best fit here in Tampa. LB could end up being a target in FA, but my top college players for our defense are Xavier Adibi, Buster Davis and Patrick Willis. Adibi fits the mold of the speedy Tampa WLB who can get sideline to side line, stop the run and cover passes(he had a pick and two passes defensed versus Clemson). Davis and Willis are MLBs but scouts feel that both can move outside in the NFL.

2nd Round B: S/CB Aaron Rouse and Brandon Meriweather would be nice fits here and CB is a need unless we address this position in FA

3rd Round: DT/QB/WR/RB I'd like to go skill position here and Marcus Thomas is falling like a rock but can he be reclaimed? Is he worth the risk. Chris Leak, Drew Tate and Brian Brohm all have minor issues at the QB position. I wouldn't mind a legit threat at KR/PR who can also get on the field as a backup WR or Rb and not just take up a roster spot.

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« #72 : November 08, 2006, 12:53:20 PM »

It looks like we may have a top 5 pick and IMO none of the players we would get would have that big of an impact, we will not take a RB or WR, and any defensive rookies will take time to play in our D. So why not go after a QB in the first round? We don't have a vet QB so any QB we have will go through growing pains. 

bradentonian

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« #73 : November 08, 2006, 01:16:16 PM »

It looks like we may have a top 5 pick and IMO none of the players we would get would have that big of an impact, we will not take a RB or WR, and any defensive rookies will take time to play in our D. So why not go after a QB in the first round? We don't have a vet QB so any QB we have will go through growing pains.

Better to get a vet in FA, who would have an easier learning curve.

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