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leeroybuc93

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#15 : November 17, 2006, 12:03:24 PM

Why is that a 1st round QB has to start next season? They don't start right away for a lot of teams. Drafting a QB in the first round is a hope for the future, not the present. Why do people assume that anyone who wants a QB in the first round thinks he's going to win right away? Of course he's not going to. But there's no guarantee that what we have will win next season or even the year after that.

My point is that drafting a QB in the first round would be an acknowledgement of a need to rebuild, not patch things together for a year. Winning immediately would not be the objective. The defense's window has closed. There is no longer a need to try to win NOW if the team thinks a QB would help in the long run.

I think the point is that the man running this team only has so much time left before his head is on the chopping block. A top pick spent on a rookieQB would basically be admitting we're fully in rebuilding stage and looking another losing season in the eye. Another losing season and Gruden is not only on tihn ice, he's freakin drowning.

I think of it a different way.  I think we can improve the defense enough to get noticably better next season with all of our free agent money.  I think with the continued development of Joseph and Trueblood our line could be better as well.  We will be better and that will give Gruden more wiggle room. 

Taking that into account, a QB in the first round could be exactly what saves Gruden.  He is known as a QB guru.  People here talk about how Gruden is safe because of the money we invested in him.  He could be safe a while longer because of the money we would invest in a 1st round QB.  You wouldn't give a QB 60 million and then fire the guy who's supposed to be great at developing them.

Simms2Clayton05

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#16 : November 17, 2006, 01:15:45 PM

not here thats just askin to start over again and start like how we did this year. not gonna work in my book

IanD15

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#17 : November 17, 2006, 05:35:09 PM

I want Simms and Gradkowski to just battle it out in training camp next year and hopefully we go Calvin Johnson and then the rest of the draft defensive

gone

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#18 : November 17, 2006, 05:40:45 PM

Why is that a 1st round QB has to start next season?  They don't start right away for a lot of teams.  Drafting a QB in the first round is a hope for the future, not the present.  Why do people assume that anyone who wants a QB in the first round thinks he's going to win right away?  Of course he's not going to.  But there's no guarantee that what we have will win next season or even the year after that.

My point is that drafting a QB in the first round would be an acknowledgement of a need to rebuild, not patch things together for a year.  Winning immediately would not be the objective.  The defense's window has closed.  There is no longer a need to try to win NOW if the team thinks a QB would help in the long run.

I think the point is that the man running this team only has so much time left before his head is on the chopping block. A top pick spent on a rookieQB would basically be admitting we're fully in rebuilding stage and looking another losing season in the eye. Another losing season and Gruden is not only on tihn ice, he's freakin drowning.
Highly doubt the QB pick too.  If he DOES pick one, that would be a pretty solid indicator the Glazers guaranteed him more time...

And like leeroy said, an improvement on D would upgrade our record too.  I'd look more for 1 D and 1 O FA signing of the large sort, and maybe one or 2 spot fillers, rest through draft.  Between improvement time for rookies, good money at FA, and the "can't get any worse" factor, we should be in for a good year next season...

Boid Fink

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#19 : November 17, 2006, 05:52:58 PM

If Brady Quinn is available, I think Gruden will have a hard time NOT drafting a blue chip QB. Espescially if the Glazer Corporation gives him an extension...

And if he does draft a QB, we can all assume that Gradkowski is going to be a career backup.


gone

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#20 : November 17, 2006, 11:32:05 PM

If Brady Quinn is available, I think Gruden will have a hard time NOT drafting a blue chip QB. Espescially if the Glazer Corporation gives him an extension...

And if he does draft a QB, we can all assume that Gradkowski is going to be a career backup.
Agree with the second part there, no brainer...

First part depends on what he really thinks of Grads.  Jon got it done in Oak with a journeyman, and same in Tampa.  If he thinks he can turn Grads into Gannon Jr. in 2 years, he'd be better off fixing the other holes first.  They'll have more of an immediate impact than a QB anyway, and they'd help down the road...

rayfsc07

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#21 : November 18, 2006, 12:15:01 AM

I say we take Quinn or Russell round 1.  Use the rest of the draft for some defense, maybe some OL help if some good players available.  Use the $$$ we have to sign a couple defensive players(clements, a safety, maybe briggs, etc), a veteran QB (Plummer, Leftwich, Green, etc), maybe a OL if any come available.  Have Russell or Quinn sit a year while the Vet, or maybe Grads holds down the fort next year.  Then in 08 maybe unleash Quinn/Russell, the OL should be improved by then, the D shored up through the FA/draft picks, and MAYBE then we can contend for years to come.

dbtb135

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#22 : November 18, 2006, 06:05:23 AM

I think of it a different way.  I think we can improve the defense enough to get noticably better next season with all of our free agent money.  I think with the continued development of Joseph and Trueblood our line could be better as well.  We will be better and that will give Gruden more wiggle room. 

Taking that into account, a QB in the first round could be exactly what saves Gruden.  He is known as a QB guru.  People here talk about how Gruden is safe because of the money we invested in him.  He could be safe a while longer because of the money we would invest in a 1st round QB.  You wouldn't give a QB 60 million and then fire the guy who's supposed to be great at developing them.

We have two ways to go IMO; build up the D and have Gruden swallow his ego and run the ball (not likely). Or build up the offense to where it can WIN this team games (also looking not likely). The latter is probably going to happen, only the winning games part is up in the air. A rookie QB takes the whole offense back two steps, you have to understand that. Not only will he probably struggle, his ineffectiveness hurts the running game. And Gruden has already shown a complete lack of patience when it comes to the running game, and NO hesitation whatsoever to put the game in a rookie QB's hands for far too many passing attempts. So for us to get significantly better, the D has to either return to greatness, which is not one or two FA signings away from, or the O has to start carrying it's weight which probably won't happen under a rookie QB regardless of talent. There is no guarantee that we will be better other than the fact that we are close to the worst team in football. It's not like we're going to be downright ecstatic if we have a 6-10 season next year.

About Gruden being safe, either it's a bunch of BS or the Glazers aren't committed to winning. I'm sorry, but thats just the way it is. I fully appreciate what both the Glazers and Gruden have done for this organization, but to keep him around just because of what we've invested in him is both stubborn and wrong. We'll have a sub-.500 record this year. If we have another, which would make 4 in 5 years with no playoffs wins, he should be canned no questions asked. I mean, that type of record is Butch Davis territory. Gruden isn't the only coach who can develop a QB. Someone earlier mention Martz, he made Kurt Warner and Marc Bulger into top tier passers, and had a decent record. I in no way want him as our coach, but he's a heck of a lot better looking than Gruden is right about now.

rayfsc07

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#23 : November 18, 2006, 08:14:35 AM

I think of it a different way. I think we can improve the defense enough to get noticably better next season with all of our free agent money. I think with the continued development of Joseph and Trueblood our line could be better as well. We will be better and that will give Gruden more wiggle room.

Taking that into account, a QB in the first round could be exactly what saves Gruden. He is known as a QB guru. People here talk about how Gruden is safe because of the money we invested in him. He could be safe a while longer because of the money we would invest in a 1st round QB. You wouldn't give a QB 60 million and then fire the guy who's supposed to be great at developing them.

We have two ways to go IMO; build up the D and have Gruden swallow his ego and run the ball (not likely). Or build up the offense to where it can WIN this team games (also looking not likely). The latter is probably going to happen, only the winning games part is up in the air. A rookie QB takes the whole offense back two steps, you have to understand that. Not only will he probably struggle, his ineffectiveness hurts the running game. And Gruden has already shown a complete lack of patience when it comes to the running game, and NO hesitation whatsoever to put the game in a rookie QB's hands for far too many passing attempts. So for us to get significantly better, the D has to either return to greatness, which is not one or two FA signings away from, or the O has to start carrying it's weight which probably won't happen under a rookie QB regardless of talent. There is no guarantee that we will be better other than the fact that we are close to the worst team in football. It's not like we're going to be downright ecstatic if we have a 6-10 season next year.

About Gruden being safe, either it's a bunch of BS or the Glazers aren't committed to winning. I'm sorry, but thats just the way it is. I fully appreciate what both the Glazers and Gruden have done for this organization, but to keep him around just because of what we've invested in him is both stubborn and wrong. We'll have a sub-.500 record this year. If we have another, which would make 4 in 5 years with no playoffs wins, he should be canned no questions asked. I mean, that type of record is Butch Davis territory. Gruden isn't the only coach who can develop a QB. Someone earlier mention Martz, he made Kurt Warner and Marc Bulger into top tier passers, and had a decent record. I in no way want him as our coach, but he's a heck of a lot better looking than Gruden is right about now.

Just because we draft a rookie QB, does not mean he has to play immediately.  See Drew Brees and Rivers in SD as a prime example.  I am all for drafting a franchise QB round 1,have him sit ayear or 2, and let Grads or a Vet hold down the fort until then.  In your theory that would still allow us to compete like 2005, but at the same time set us up for the future where we won't have these discussions.  It is time we at least TRY in Tampa to get a QB that we don't have to say every season "Should we draft a QB???

SD had Brees, a MUCH better QB than Grads, and STILL took Rivers.  Just goes to show when you have the opportunity to draft a QB of that type you don't pass it up.....

alldaway

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#24 : November 18, 2006, 08:19:00 AM

San Diego was stupid becuase some fans and their front office prematurely jumped all over Brees before even giving him a chance?  Sound familiar?


rayfsc07

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#25 : November 18, 2006, 08:29:20 AM

San Diego was stupid becuase some fans and their front office prematurely jumped all over Brees before even giving him a chance? Sound familiar?



No.

Yeah, SD was real stupid.....Rivers sucks right?

The only thing SD did that was dumb was not trade Brees rather than letting him walk.

If you are comparing Grads to Brees that is too funny!

alldaway

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#26 : November 18, 2006, 08:35:52 AM

San Diego was stupid becuase some fans and their front office prematurely jumped all over Brees before even giving him a chance? Sound familiar?



No.

Yeah, SD was real stupid.....Rivers sucks right?

The only thing SD did that was dumb was not trade Brees rather than letting him walk.

If you are comparing Grads to Brees that is too funny!

Not too bright I see.

Brees+ Roy Williams > Rivers


rayfsc07

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#27 : November 18, 2006, 08:41:30 AM

San Diego was stupid becuase some fans and their front office prematurely jumped all over Brees before even giving him a chance? Sound familiar?



No.

Yeah, SD was real stupid.....Rivers sucks right?

The only thing SD did that was dumb was not trade Brees rather than letting him walk.

If you are comparing Grads to Brees that is too funny!

Not too bright I see.

Brees+ Roy Williams > Rivers



Right.  The only one not bright here is you, thinking Grads is the answer at QB.

rayfsc07

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#28 : November 18, 2006, 08:43:59 AM

San Diego was stupid becuase some fans and their front office prematurely jumped all over Brees before even giving him a chance? Sound familiar?



You probably also think the SD front office made a mistake trading down and not taking Vick too right?  [banghead]

alldaway

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#29 : November 18, 2006, 08:46:52 AM

San Diego was stupid becuase some fans and their front office prematurely jumped all over Brees before even giving him a chance? Sound familiar?



No.

Yeah, SD was real stupid.....Rivers sucks right?

The only thing SD did that was dumb was not trade Brees rather than letting him walk.

If you are comparing Grads to Brees that is too funny!

Not too bright I see.

Brees+ Roy Williams > Rivers



Right.  The only one not bright here is you, thinking Grads is the answer at QB.

Grads is not the best answer but for Gruden's offense he is.  Can you honestly say that Gruden will draft a QB in the top ten of the draft next year and afford to sit that player with his job on the line?  And lets assume Gradkowski fails next year?  Then what?  With three losing seasons already and adding a fourth I can not imagine Gruden being around.  And then having to hand over the reigns to a second year QB?  Chalk up the possibility of another losing season.

I am sorry but your suggestion that Gruden drafts a QB next year in the top ten of the draft is simply over the top.  The only way your suggestion is logical is if Gruden has the blessing of the Glazers to draft a QB in the top ten (highly doubt it) or Gruden is fired this year and the new coaching staff wants to draft a QB in the top ten.



 
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