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BUCFAN4LIFE

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« #15 : December 11, 2006, 08:23:02 AM »

Gruden didn't sell Sapp off-- McKay did when he gave Booger the blockbuster deal in Sapps last year. Lynch owed 4.7 million coming off a season with a broken neck. Phillips did well in his absence and was a RFA-- Lynch had lost a step that last year here and Phillips was suppose to be the up and comer and looked good replacing Lynch. Now we see it was a mistake, back then it was a lets see.

The Bucs wer not going to resign Ronde-- are you kidding-- if they weren't going to resign him they could have cut him this year and had 5 mil to spend. Brooks restructure from 11 mil gave them the opportunity to for sure as well as Simms and Hovan. But I wouldn't say they were not going to resign him. They didn't have to until this offseason. Brooks restructure just allowed them to earlier so he didn't hit FA waters. I listen to Brooks shows and he has never said anything to that effect. All he said was his restructure allowed him the ability to retire a Buc and get some key guys re-upped.


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« #16 : December 11, 2006, 09:00:15 AM »

The problem I have with Gruden is now he has his guys in here and we are seeing the results from HIS guys and his lack of offensive prowess. I firmly believe if we do not get Gruden and the idiot Hackett out of here we will ruin Williams, Clayton, Alex Smith, Chris Simms, Davin Joseph and several other young offensive players. Also.. to compare Gruden to any of the other coaches (including Marty Schottenhiemer) is ridiculous, he isn't 1/4th the coach that any of those you mentioned are. He came in won a superbowl with someone else's guys (with the exception of Brad Johnson) and now he has had his chance to build HIS team and he has failed miserably. I don't buy the injury excuse, every team has them and good coaches manage to find a way to win with them and if you want to use the injury excuse maybe he should fire the s&c coach. Either way I think Gruden has run his course in Tampa.


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« #17 : December 11, 2006, 08:48:53 AM »

Naples: Who would have rather had at the QB position? Grads or Rattay? It's not an experiment, Gruden felt Grads was the better man for the job at that point. Obviously he showed that in practice and won the job over Rattay.


Gruden will be here in 2007 and I thank the owners for keeping steady. Marty SH. was going to get run out of SD just last year and look now. You can't just fire coaches after a few rough years.

cvillebucfan

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« #18 : December 11, 2006, 08:53:41 AM »

What is amusing is the Grads lovers were saying how Grads played so well in the pre-season and that he should have been starting or could have been starting opening day. You look back at this now and see that Gradkowski is a mess and Gruden appears to have appeased the fans that would have been yelling for Grads had Rattay done so-so, which he probably would have. Gruden gave you Grads guys 10 games or whatever and its blantantly obvious he is not much. Now, we have the gruden bashers all over Gruden and half of the haters were Grads supporters...ironic.



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« #19 : December 11, 2006, 09:55:52 AM »

I totally disagree.   What did Dungy build?   He came here with Brooks, Sapp and Lynch already on the roster.

Don't forget Nickerson.

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« #20 : December 11, 2006, 09:35:23 AM »

This team completely gives up as soon as they get behind, even by one point. That has nothing to do with draft picks, free agents or cap space. The Bucs need talent, we all know that, but, when they are out there on that field, the players they have are a bunch of front runners. I'm not asking to fire Gruden, I know he hasn't had the best out there, but when your team does not know what to do once they are down, then that falls on the entire coaching staff.

Yesterdays game was a perfect example. For 2 and a half quarters they are all over Atlanta, they are not scoring, but their moving the ball and the defense is holding. Then a fumble, touchdown and game is over. Why? Why do they go into a shell when they are down by one point? Don't tell me that Atlanta adjusted in half time, because, the Bucs were once again, moving the ball in the start of the 3rd quarter. Why does the defense allow a fullback to beat them up and down the field. Did anyone see that "fake" that Griffith put on Allen, that had to be one of the worst fakes I have ever seen, and Allen fell for it. Sad, just sad.

This is not all on Gruden, but he has definitely shown that he can't, or doesn't know how to turn this team around when they are down. Newsflash! Adversity will  hit you in the NFL, what are you going to do about it? And I don't want to hear about the schedule anymore, you can only bring up the schedule if you are having a winning record against it. If you keep using the "tough schedule" as an excuse, then that only proves that you can only win when you have an easy schedule. You play the schedule you are given. The schedule is given well before the season starts, so, prepare yourself for it!


Good points I agree and Gruden should take some hell, I'm not exempting him from criticism, he has most certainly entiled to garning some of the blame, no question.



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« #21 : December 11, 2006, 01:20:42 PM »

I'm not even going to delve into this about Grudens team that won the superbowl. Any fan with any where with all knows that Gruden added key guy to this offense that allowed us to win the super bowl...

Anyway, build his team with what? He has had 2 first round picks in his tenure here, how can you people not understand that he hasn't been able to build and he hasn't been able to reload because of salary cap hell??

He is the same guy that got us to the super bowl, he is a young coach, and these are bad times for Gruden. This is our first year in forever to be out of cap hell. We have lost 7 picks via trades that have killed our ability to add good players who can contribute. What you are witnessing right now is what has been forcast to happen for years and its finally caught up with us guys, damn....

I'm tired of hearing people crying about Gruden....We suck, we lack players, we are old on defense....

I don't think Gruden is exempt from what has happened, and in fact I think he has made just bonehead moves such as coming into this season with Simms and Grads and being reluctant to play Rattay (for whatever reason). However I am indifferent to firing him. He is a young coach, a good coach and yes these are bad times but these times have been expected to hit us for years and its finally come full circle and it hurts. Now either some of you guys weren't around as fans when for years everyone was saying the cap is going to catch them, the defense is going to get old and so on and so on. I was hoping for a better offense as well to compensate for the aging defense, we missed the boat on some people and yeah that is grudens fault but everything he touches does not turn to gold.

There is zero injury excuse to be used. Fact is this, our defense that has been forcast for years to get over the hill, finally has gone over the hill. The inablity to reload due to salary cap issues and the lost draft picks has killed us! We have zero at Quarterback and the OL is shaky but is showcasing some young talent. I think we have to ride this thing out with gruden.

For christ sake last year he took at team that was 6-10 and made them division champs and a playoff birth with hardly anyhting. Some here are too quick to forget the past and panic. Cry if you want, whatever, i'm done with this goofy discussion on Gruden. Yeah he has made some mistakes, but the obvious fact for our demise is what I said in the previous paragraph...

Cville good post. Alot of these fans must have forgotten about all the talk of how the mortgage would eventually kill us. I agree Gruden has made mistakes -- some of his biggest was the continued refinanced mortgage of 2003 and in 2004 when he should have started building more with youth, but then again with no quality draft picks and a win now league he had to do something and for the most part the mid tier FA's that were cast offs proved to be castoffs for a reason. But when you look at Booger cost more than they did combined you can see just how far the mortgage and previous regime GM was clueless and hurt us with quite a few of his deals that stretched the mortgage longer. But they did get us the SB-- and we all said back then -- that was well worth it.

As for Gruden HC he has made mistakes and has to bare the blame for his losing season. But on the other hand he remains the guy that also has taken this team to two divisonal champs, a conference champion, and a SB champion. The previous brain trust had a much better situation to work with and some how only managed the same but with a losing playoff record and no championships to speak of with a team that was in the window for 3-4 seasons. They got 6 years of tries and IMO Grduen should be afforded the same. Alot of these fans seem to forget the guy has been here before and took a 4-12 Raider team and made them a competitor due largely to the fact he he had draft picks and money-- something he has never had here.

Not like the HC who has had 4 division titles, a conference title, and championship in the past 6 years and only 3 losing seasons out of 9, somehow forgot how to coach. People seem to forget it takes alot of talent as well, which more than not is found with cap dollars and high draft picks. The one luxury he has not been afforded yet, until this offseason.

Just ask yourself folks who was the last NFC HC to win it all.


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« #22 : December 11, 2006, 01:23:30 PM »

No one is playing for Jon Anymore. He has completely lost the ship.

We need a new head coach to come in and rally these guys up. There need to be lots of changes next offseason. With the Cap and the picks we need a new coach to start making the decisions because it seems as if every time a FA leaves (who was dungy's guy) we get an older worse player in return.

Seriously I dont regret trading for Gruden because he got us a championship but his personell decisions are flat out rediculous.

Now when we have the money we need someone to come in and give us good quality guys so that we can start competing soon.

cvillebucfan

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« #23 : December 11, 2006, 01:27:15 PM »

B4L, that is a really good articulation of what has transpired over the past several years. What is happening now has been inevitable and its here and yes it sux for the bucs and us as fans.

We can get this thing back in the right direction if we a) utilize FA to get some top tier young talent and its going to be available (BRIGGS) and b) Draft well, and we will be in the top 3 more than likely with 2 2nd round picks as of today.



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« #24 : December 11, 2006, 01:28:40 PM »

I just dont' think you can bail on Gruden now, we are finally out of cap hell, there are great players going to be available, we are drafting in a great slot. We can get this thing fixed with Gruden.



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« #25 : December 11, 2006, 01:28:48 PM »

Free Agents, draft picks, more experience, no injuries starting next year.  Weaker schedule, it all adds up to a nice rebuild, IMO.


BUCFAN4LIFE

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« #26 : December 11, 2006, 01:29:04 PM »

Sure cause Gruden inheriting a 4-12 Raiders team with picks and a cap he and Allen created 3 AFC West Champions in 2 short years and never had a losing season together.

I see your logic Beastie????


cvillebucfan

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« #27 : December 11, 2006, 01:32:29 PM »

Sure cause Gruden inheriting a 4-12 Raiders team with picks and a cap he and Allen created 3 AFC West Champions in 2 short years and never had a losing season together.

I see your logic Beastie????

Exactly! We have been getting by for several years on borrowed time and this is all coming full circle...The defense is old and when you don't have 7 top picks (4 1st rounders and 3 2nd rounder) and you can't acquire any viable FA because of cap hell its impossible to fend this off.



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« #28 : December 11, 2006, 01:33:32 PM »

Gruden is more interested in improving the offense than winning games. The guy won a Superbowl with defense. Instead of keeping the defense elite, he completely ignores that side of the ball and now we are at the bottom of the league and in rebuilding mode.

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« #29 : December 11, 2006, 01:35:50 PM »

Gruden is more interested in improving the offense than winning games. The guy won a Superbowl with defense. Instead of keeping the defense elite, he completely ignores that side of the ball and now we are at the bottom of the league and in rebuilding mode.

Shag but how do you keep an elite defense when you cannot reload with players due to cap issues and the loss of so many draft picks? Come on guys, I am pissed too but its a reality of what we are dealing with. We simply have been handcuffed not being able to bring in guys to reload or fill in, we haven't had the means to do so.



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