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cvillebucfan

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#45 : December 11, 2006, 02:11:44 PM


Anbd who's fault was that? I am sure Gruden like the rest of us thought he could get one more year out of a #1 defense. Have to ask yourself-- where were the holes--- OLINE, QB, WR, and OLINE, and OLINE. And as opthers have pointed out-- where was the cap to spend on D. LAst i checked he has brought in Hovan who was a dman good pickup. Ruud has played admirably in his time here. Winborn is very good depth. So he has not ingnored the defense at all.

I knew the defense would fall apart soon, and I have been saying it for years. I'm not talking about spending cap on defense. Draft picks don't cost much, and should be used to get younger. We haven't drafted defense in the 1st round for seven years. Since Gruden has been here we have used 8 first day picks on offense, including 3 1st rounders, compared to 3 first day picks on defense. Hovan is average and Winborn is nothing, not sure why you brought him up.

We did not have a 1st round draft pick for 4 years! The #1's we used were used on our anemic offense....



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#46 : December 11, 2006, 02:12:45 PM


Anbd who's fault was that? I am sure Gruden like the rest of us thought he could get one more year out of a #1 defense. Have to ask yourself-- where were the holes--- OLINE, QB, WR, and OLINE, and OLINE. And as opthers have pointed out-- where was the cap to spend on D. LAst i checked he has brought in Hovan who was a dman good pickup. Ruud has played admirably in his time here. Winborn is very good depth. So he has not ingnored the defense at all.

I knew the defense would fall apart soon, and I have been saying it for years. I'm not talking about spending cap on defense. Draft picks don't cost much, and should be used to get younger. We haven't drafted defense in the 1st round for seven years. Since Gruden has been here we have used 8 first day picks on offense, including 3 1st rounders, compared to 3 first day picks on defense. Hovan is average and Winborn is nothing, not sure why you brought him up.
Winborn brings much needed speed to the backer spot.  And he has been a good backer while in Frisco, his problem has been injuries.  It is a poor mans version of Ian Gold scenario unfolding, but given DBs age, we might see him sooner before later.  Winborn is a very solid signing, for very cheap.  He is nothing?  C'mon dude, the only "Nothing" we can absolutely say as an adjective is the one used to decribe the Bucs cap room at the start of the season.

On a side note, would it be funny if I called the Bucs, The Tampa Bay Buicks?  I thought not...


Shag

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#47 : December 11, 2006, 02:18:09 PM


We did not have a 1st round draft pick for 4 years! The #1's we used were used on our anemic offense....

They still all went to offense. Two for Keyshawn and two for an offensive genius.  :D

keeponbucn

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#48 : December 11, 2006, 02:18:36 PM


Anbd who's fault was that? I am sure Gruden like the rest of us thought he could get one more year out of a #1 defense. Have to ask yourself-- where were the holes--- OLINE, QB, WR, and OLINE, and OLINE. And as opthers have pointed out-- where was the cap to spend on D. LAst i checked he has brought in Hovan who was a dman good pickup. Ruud has played admirably in his time here. Winborn is very good depth. So he has not ingnored the defense at all.

I knew the defense would fall apart soon, and I have been saying it for years. I'm not talking about spending cap on defense. Draft picks don't cost much, and should be used to get younger. We haven't drafted defense in the 1st round for seven years. Since Gruden has been here we have used 8 first day picks on offense, including 3 1st rounders, compared to 3 first day picks on defense. Hovan is average and Winborn is nothing, not sure why you brought him up.


When Gruden came here what was the side of the ball that needed the attention? That's about all that needs to said about this lame old argument about not giving the defense some love.

cvillebucfan

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#49 : December 11, 2006, 02:24:09 PM


We did not have a 1st round draft pick for 4 years! The #1's we used were used on our anemic offense....

They still all went to offense. Two for Keyshawn and two for an offensive genius. :D

hmmmm, can't imagine why...



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#50 : December 11, 2006, 02:55:10 PM

Gruden is more interested in improving the offense than winning games. The guy won a Superbowl with defense. Instead of keeping the defense elite, he completely ignores that side of the ball and now we are at the bottom of the league and in rebuilding mode.

No he is not - he wants to win - see SB run and last year.

Ignored what - the d has been a league leader for years, the O has needed help.  SOmething out of line with that?

The bucs have been in a rebuildiing mode.  For several years.  How can this be news. 

This and other discussions need an infusion of factual history.  I hate the record and performances this year as much as the next person, but to be surprised - shocked - irrational follows - is simply to admit you have not been watching the cap for years, the team for years and to fall prey to some inevitably silly expecation that success in this league lasts forever.  It has not since the introduction of the salary cap. 

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

BUCFAN4LIFE

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#51 : December 11, 2006, 05:34:39 PM


We did not have a 1st round draft pick for 4 years! The #1's we used were used on our anemic offense....

They still all went to offense. Two for Keyshawn and two for an offensive genius. :D

 Like I said earlier and who's fault is this-- you said Gruden has ignored the defense-- yet point out instances in which McKay or the Glazers made those moves-- Not Gruden. If we are now talking about previous regime you can bring up the first rounders burnt on busts Anthony and Green, or 2 picks for Walker, or 2 picks for Coleman. You can see now why Gruden was strapped for picks.

To say Gruden has ignored defense is not true. He may have gone offense more than defense because hello 2/3rd's of the cap was tied up in the top 5 D while no money had been spent for years on the O. Where else you goona get O if you can't buy it in FA---answer: the draft.


bucDsystem

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#52 : December 11, 2006, 08:16:13 PM

without all the excuses.... SR said it best

both Gruden and the young bucs are learning how to come out of this funk

gruden doesn't have twenty plus years head coaching experience to draw from
so while some may want to see him go
remember this

he won a superbowl in tampa bay... with the glazers team... he steered a team full of ragtags and underacheivers in some cases close to the superbowl and after he left they made the superbowl in which they were beat by the buccaneers HC John Gruden


to win...you must envision victory -devise a plan -and then have the guts to destroy anything that stands in your way

karen anderson

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#53 : December 12, 2006, 12:54:54 AM

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