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dalbuc

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#30 : January 08, 2007, 12:15:09 PM

I think the cap values of Garner, Steussie and Deese amounted to 4% of the team's cap valu

For the record, the 2006 cap hit for cutting all three of those players was $6,783,336, which is less than seven percent of the salary cap. To put that in perspective, that is $200,000 more than Booger McFarland's cap value in 2006. Tampa Bay's 2006 dead cap money was in the bottom half of the league.

Unfortunately, more of its "dead cap money" was actually tied up in "live" players such as the disappointing Simeon Rice and McFarland (over $15 million).

See this the spin I love SR and you wonder why I question anything. Dead money now includes "live" players.

Now, where did this 2% figure that is getting bandied about come from since you are copping to "almost 7%" and there's a few more re-do deals and other missing players adding into the cap.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.



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#31 : January 08, 2007, 12:15:41 PM

Buc Fan your an idiot.
Buc Fan>You.

alldaway

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#32 : January 08, 2007, 12:19:11 PM

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See this the spin I love SR

I do not think that is spin.  When the dead money of three players barely edges out one player (Booger) and another player that did not want to be here (Keyshawn $6 m in dead cap space).  It is rather small in comparsion.

That is like complaining about lead being in the drinking water.  Sure it can kill you...after driking that water for 1,000 years.

You do not enter cap hell with that amount of dead cap space. Jeff Garcia cost the 49ers nearly double the amount in dead cap space ($12 m).




alldaway

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#33 : January 08, 2007, 12:24:23 PM

The dead cap space contributed to the cap hell but is not the sole reason as the original poster laid out in the first post.

Had the Bucs not lost that money to Garner, Steuiss, and Deese they would have been out of cap jail a year earlier in my opinion (2006).


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#34 : January 08, 2007, 12:32:37 PM

You do not enter cap hell with that amount of dead cap space. Jeff Garcia cost the 49ers nearly double the amount in dead cap space ($12 m).




Actually, this is why I disagree with the "cap hell" designation for the recent Bucs teams.  If we were really in "cap hell", we would have been blowing up the team and making huge cuts.  We've seen several other teams around the league go through this.  I would say we were in "cap purgatory". 


alldaway

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#35 : January 08, 2007, 12:42:22 PM

You do not enter cap hell with that amount of dead cap space. Jeff Garcia cost the 49ers nearly double the amount in dead cap space ($12 m).


Actually, this is why I disagree with the "cap hell" designation for the recent Bucs teams. If we were really in "cap hell", we would have been blowing up the team and making huge cuts. We've seen several other teams around the league go through this. I would say we were in "cap purgatory".

That is true to a degree.  I do not like to use the cap hell term either.  I concur with you 100% on that.  Other than the 49ers (+$20 m dead cap space in one off season) and the Titans no other team has been in cap hell like these two teams in the last eight years.

The Redskins and Raiders have always avoided cap jail year after year.  While Rich Mckay did backload a lot of contracts for the Super Bowl run there were no crippling contracts on the team until after the Super Bowl (Eg Brads botched reworked contract and Boogers) year.  And no one saw that Keyshawn and Keenan would want out.  There is more than the money element to this as there is a human element that can not be predicted. Mckay receives a lot of unwarranted flack many times I feel on that front.  Those two years after the Super Bowl Mckay and Allen screwed up.  But that is the price you pay when you reload instead of rebuild.

The Ravens after winning the super bowl blew up their team in the following off season.  The Bucs have taken a methodical approach by doing it piece by piece every off sesason.  Ultimately those two years post Super Bowl should have been rebuilding years for the Bucs kind of like what the Ravens did using the power of hindsight. ;)




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#36 : January 08, 2007, 12:46:58 PM

The dead cap space contributed to the cap hell but is not the sole reason as the original poster laid out in the first post.

Had the Bucs not lost that money to Garner, Steuiss, and Deese they would have been out of cap jail a year earlier in my opinion (2006).


Not that they didn't turn out to be mistakes but we also did not have the draft picks that year to address some of those needs and thats why mid tier FA's had to be brought in. Garner-- I was excited about him until of course he blew out his good knee ( Who ever thought he would blow out the good one) -- Stuessie-- will never figure out why they thought Mr False Start could turn it around, and Deese was a why pick up when you had Oben who had done well.

No defneding those 3 pickups and you are right we would have shaved cap hell likey last year without those 3.


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#37 : January 08, 2007, 12:50:51 PM

ADW-- i can understand 2003 trying to repeat and reload- but 04 should have been the blowup and rebuild-- but it is hard without picks to do it with, and 03 and 04 had limited picks as well as the prior years so they really had no one in the pipeline either. They were almost forced to reload in 03, but 04 they should have tried to rebuild-- they messed that one up.

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PewterReportSR

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#38 : January 08, 2007, 12:53:05 PM

I think the cap values of Garner, Steussie and Deese amounted to 4% of the team's cap valu

For the record, the 2006 cap hit for cutting all three of those players was $6,783,336, which is less than seven percent of the salary cap. To put that in perspective, that is $200,000 more than Booger McFarland's cap value in 2006. Tampa Bay's 2006 dead cap money was in the bottom half of the league.

Unfortunately, more of its "dead cap money" was actually tied up in "live" players such as the disappointing Simeon Rice and McFarland (over $15 million).

See this the spin I love SR and you wonder why I question anything. Dead money now includes "live" players.

Now, where did this 2% figure that is getting bandied about come from since you are copping to "almost 7%" and there's a few more re-do deals and other missing players adding into the cap.

There's no spin, dal. I was being sarcastic with the McFarland reference.

Pewter Report never threw out a 2% figure anywhere. If someone misinterprets our work and gets numbers confused or wrong, that's not on us.

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#39 : January 08, 2007, 12:53:56 PM

Well you could argue Clayton was drafted becuase of Keenan rumbling about his contract situation.  And the lack of picks may have been a reason to go after Deese, Steussie and Garner as stop gaps.

Looking back these moves looked like knee jerk reactions.  But that is what happens when you are not far removed from a Lombardi trophy.  That is why I do not understand the hate that exists for McKay and Allen.

The Patriots after winning their first Super Bowl you could argue had to retool/rebuild their team after missing their repeat chance the following year by reloading.  As a result? They won a Super Bowl two more times. The Ravens have been competitive even though they blew up their team after their Super Bowl run. The Steelers did not do much but failed to repeat.

What we are learning about the salary cap era is that Super Bowl champions are often better off making changes in the off season coming off a title run then staying pat. If it requires rebuilding so be it and bite the bullet.  
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#40 : January 08, 2007, 12:56:44 PM

You do not enter cap hell with that amount of dead cap space. Jeff Garcia cost the 49ers nearly double the amount in dead cap space ($12 m).




Actually, this is why I disagree with the "cap hell" designation for the recent Bucs teams.  If we were really in "cap hell", we would have been blowing up the team and making huge cuts.  We've seen several other teams around the league go through this.  I would say we were in "cap purgatory". 

It depends on the way you look at it. Watching players like Warrick Dunn, Hardy Nickerson and Warren Sapp leave in free agency because the team couldn't afford to re-sign them, or having to cut players like John Lynch, Joe Jurevicius and Brian Griese due to the team being cap-strapped would constitute being in hell to fans of those players.

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#41 : January 08, 2007, 12:59:23 PM

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ADW-- i can understand 2003 trying to repeat and reload- but 04 should have been the blowup and rebuild-- but it is hard without picks to do it with, and 03 and 04 had limited picks as well as the prior years so they really had no one in the pipeline either. They were almost forced to reload in 03, but 04 they should have tried to rebuild-- they messed that one up.

It is hard to rebuild without picks but not that hard.  While the Ravens hit homeruns with their first and second round picks (that were missing from the Bucs).  They also did a good job with their late picks and more than half of their team in the following year from the Super Bowl run were undrafted rookie free agents.




dalbuc

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#42 : January 08, 2007, 01:48:23 PM

Actually, this is why I disagree with the "cap hell" designation for the recent Bucs teams.  If we were really in "cap hell", we would have been blowing up the team and making huge cuts.  We've seen several other teams around the league go through this.  I would say we were in "cap purgatory". 


The cap cuts are sort of problematic. We choose Pittman over Jones (we chose that by making no effort to re-sign Jones before FA to pre-empt the 12:01 he signs argument). We cut Oben and signed a more expensive player. Brad was let go and saved a ton of jack but he'd been benched anyway. Lynch saved us a lot of jack but IIRC that was more we can let you go and save money with a cheaper player than we just can't afford you becuase they wanted to replace him anyways. Sapp was the clearest cap related move because of the jack McF was making because eveything says we still wanted him.

The irony is that the defense suffered most from any sort of cap related purging and yet they continued to perform well whereas the offense got additions and still sucks.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

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#43 : January 08, 2007, 01:55:52 PM


The irony is that the defense suffered most from any sort of cap related purging and yet they continued to perform well whereas the offense got additions and still sucks.

That's because our offensive coaches aren't as good as the coaches on defense.

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#44 : January 08, 2007, 02:00:06 PM

Three #1's ONE #2, and two #3's have been spent on the offense in the last three drafts.  The offense is 31st in points scored.  

I can buy the defense having problems due to the cap, not the offense.  The cap issue is a lame excuse, not a reality, as most good teams have the same problem year over year.  Now, you can argue that our margin for error was reduced.  That is fine, but not that we didn't have any ability to field anything other than a 4-12 roster in 2006 due to a man who left in 2003.  
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