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acacius

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#15 : December 30, 2008, 03:56:04 PM

Really? Care to list the "historic" spending and draft picks and compare them with other NFL teams?

I'm not going to say it's historic, but it's still pretty darned impressive.  The team's sunk a first round pick, two second, a third and a big FA contract into the offensive line over the last few years.  For comparison, the Giant's starting line goes fifth round pick, UDFA, free agent who was previously an UDFA, second round pick, third round pick.  I'll admit that I have no idea how big of contracts their FA additions on their line got.  But it gives you the basic idea.  Given the investment the team has made in the offensive line, they should be really, really good.

bradentonian

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#16 : December 30, 2008, 03:57:05 PM

Really? Care to list the "historic" spending and draft picks and compare them with other NFL teams?

I'm not going to say it's historic, but it's still pretty darned impressive.  The team's sunk a first round pick, two second, a third and a big FA contract into the offensive line over the last few years.  For comparison, the Giant's starting line goes fifth round pick, UDFA, free agent who was previously an UDFA, second round pick, third round pick.  I'll admit that I have no idea how big of contracts their FA additions on their line got.  But it gives you the basic idea.  Given the investment the team has made in the offensive line, they should be really, really good.

Don't forget the picks for Colmer and Buenning as well


acacius

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#17 : December 30, 2008, 03:58:09 PM

Again, I like the additions to the OL. It was payoff for years to come

I like it as well.  I get a bit grumbly when people have the team pouring even more significant resources into it as it's at point where other units would really start to suffer from the lack of attention (ie, defensive line), but I like the idea in principle.  But that doesn't mean that one can't think that the line needs to show more than they showed this year.

CurtR1995

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#18 : December 30, 2008, 04:06:51 PM

2006 Indy Colts:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/clt/2006_roster.htm

keeponbucn

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#19 : December 30, 2008, 04:06:59 PM

Really? Care to list the "historic" spending and draft picks and compare them with other NFL teams?

I'm not going to say it's historic, but it's still pretty darned impressive. The team's sunk a first round pick, two second, a third and a big FA contract into the offensive line over the last few years. For comparison, the Giant's starting line goes fifth round pick, UDFA, free agent who was previously an UDFA, second round pick, third round pick. I'll admit that I have no idea how big of contracts their FA additions on their line got. But it gives you the basic idea. Given the investment the team has made in the offensive line, they should be really, really good.

Don't forget the picks for Colmer and Buenning as well

Sure, but they've hit on more than they missed in terms of drafting OL.

Can we all agree that OL and DL are the two most important units on the field? If you say yes then pour all the resources to shore those units up as you want.

sammy8887

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#20 : December 30, 2008, 04:11:03 PM

Really? Care to list the "historic" spending and draft picks and compare them with other NFL teams?

I'm not going to say it's historic, but it's still pretty darned impressive. The team's sunk a first round pick, two second, a third and a big FA contract into the offensive line over the last few years. For comparison, the Giant's starting line goes fifth round pick, UDFA, free agent who was previously an UDFA, second round pick, third round pick. I'll admit that I have no idea how big of contracts their FA additions on their line got. But it gives you the basic idea. Given the investment the team has made in the offensive line, they should be really, really good.

Don't forget the picks for Colmer and Buenning as well

Sure, but they've hit on more than they missed in terms of drafting OL.

Can we all agree that OL and DL are the two most important units on the field? If you say yes then pour all the resources to shore those units up as you want.


I'm not sure where the disagreement is at here...

I agree -- for the investment in the O-line 3rd and short situations should be a no-brainer, not a heart-stopping moment during a game...



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#21 : December 30, 2008, 04:16:30 PM

the defensive line is 10 times worse than our O-line, with the exception of Trueblood.   Id like to see him replaced.  Id like to see Jeff Faine bulk up in size too...  he's on the smaller end of Centers in the NFL, but then again, I dont remember the O line having any issues up the middle..  it was usually on the ends.

CurtR1995

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#22 : December 30, 2008, 04:16:52 PM

Except that means that for every high pick you spend on those four positions, you have to have a real scouting staff capable of finding elite talent on the second day.  

The Bucs don't anyone capable of doing that.  

Here is the most similar I could find, and I think it is fair to say that this line did just a tad better than the Bucs:

1998 Vikings:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/min/1998_roster.htm

Others:

1999 Rams:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/ram/1999_roster.htm

2007 Pats:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/2007_roster.htm


ONEBIGDADDY

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#23 : December 30, 2008, 08:00:39 PM

Everyone rails on the OL but they're the least of the problems

Exactly...The QB has to hang around the pocket long enough for the OL to get the props that they sooooo deserve...OBD


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#24 : December 30, 2008, 08:02:34 PM

the defensive line is 10 times worse than our O-line, with the exception of Trueblood. Id like to see him replaced. Id like to see Jeff Faine bulk up in size too... he's on the smaller end of Centers in the NFL, but then again, I dont remember the O line having any issues up the middle.. it was usually on the ends.

Trueblood will never be an outstanding tackle in this game.   Despite his positives in the run game, he lacks leg strength, quickness and mental agility in Pass Pro.  Look for a replacement at that position sometime soon.  


The Bucs need to sign Penn in a hurry and get Zuttah ready to step in when his time has come.

 

sammy8887

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#25 : December 31, 2008, 12:19:48 AM

Here's the full quote from Gruden on the strengths of the team:

(On the strengths of the team)
“I think the offensive line is strong, very good. I really do. I feel very good about that position. I think our secondary when healthy is very good. S Tanard Jackson, I think, will be a great pro. [CB Aqib] Talib is going to be an excellent pro. I feel very good about our secondary. LB Barrett Ruud is one of the best middle linebackers in football. We have to pick it up in some other areas and we’ll do that.”


More interesting quotes from my perspective:

(On what areas the team needs to improve)
“There are a lot of areas we have to get better at. We have to get better. You don’t go 11 games where you don’t give up a rushing touchdown and basically the final four games three different backs went for 160 yards or more. Injuries took its tool on us, certainly. We have to get more pass rush. We have to get more turnovers. You can’t start at the minus-20 every series and expect to have great success. We have to take a look at every area, really. We have to take a look at our running back situation. We have some injuries there that are going to obviously impact the direction that the Buccaneers go. Again, we have to look at every area, really.”

(On if the team should have developed a young quarterback by this point)
“Well, it would be nice. That would be nice to do. I think the highest draft selection we’ve made was Chris [Simms] in the ‘03 season. We did our best to develop him. We got a lot out of Chris, he did some good things here. The injury, he was sidetracked a little bit. We’ve been fortunate – we had Brad Johnson who won a World Championship here. We had some issues at other positions that we needed to address. So it’s been a little bit harder than maybe it appears. It’s hard to find a guy unless you take him early sometimes. A lot of the young guys that maybe you’re talking about having on your football team don’t make it to free agency.”

(On the amount of roster turnover the team could face)
“Well, I think I’m always going to be confident. We’ve turned things around before. I think we had a seven or eight game turnaround when we first got here. I think we went from 4-12 to 11-5. Confident we can do it. We obviously have to do a great job in free agency, have to re-sign some of our key guys, have to acquire some guys. We found Antonio Bryant one of the best receivers in football. We’re fortunate to have a guy like that. Hopefully we can get him back. We’re confident we can do. We think there’s evidence that we have done it and can do it again.”

(On the passing game)
“We threw the ball as good as any team in Buccaneer history this year, statistically. We feel like looking at the tape, we could have got some more out of it. But two different quarterbacks, a new split end, we had a number of new components. We like Michael Clayton now; we like Clayton and hope to get him back.”

(On the offense’s continuity)
“We have tried to build a line, we feel pretty good about that. Skilled positions, we inherited a veteran quarterback and Brad Johnson did great for us. It has been hard at that position certainly to find a guy. We are fortunate to find Garcia, who went to a Pro Bowl, helped us a lot this year. Carnell Williams was the rookie of the year; he has had a couple of serious injuries. You can’t apologize for that, that is the reality of it. Mike Alstott had a great run here, he had a serious injury. That sometimes has an impact on the decisions that you make. Michael Clayton had an unbelievable rookie year, was derailed by a number of injuries. We feel like we got a lot out of Joey Galloway when he was healthy. So to go back on the initial question, there have been some injuries and that has had a lot to do with it, we are not alone.”

(On the team’s draft last year)
“Dexter Jackson is just in his rookie year. It is a project to a degree as a receiver; it is going to take a little bit of time. I would hate to just slam the book on Dexter Jackson today. We have had some good picks; we have had some really good picks. We have had some picks that haven’t worked out, but I can’t name any team in football that has had every pick perform to great, high standards. We like Aqib Talib a lot now, a lot, and we really thing Jeremy Zuttah is going to be a heck of football player. Clifton Smith went to the Pro Bowl. Whether we drafted him or not, he is a rookie. There were some good additions from our young class, some of the other guys have to pick it up, but I don’t think you can say that guy’s careers are written yet, after one year.”

(On if the team should use all the cap space)
“I don’t know about that. You just don’t max out your cap unless you are logically going after somebody that you think is a fine football player that qualifies, or that has earned that right to seek those kinds of dollars. We will do the best we can to field the best roster.”


http://www.tboblogs.com/index.php/sports/story/buccaneers-coach-jon-gruden-quotes/

MiltonMack21

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#26 : December 31, 2008, 12:44:34 AM

Actually O-Line especially guard should be way down on the list of drafting. We wasted 3 premium picks on linemen that either suck big time or should be drafted in the 5th round and below. Franchise QB is 1000 times more important than some scrub guard and right tackle. We should have used those picks on DL and made Muir and Gruden play with no talent.


lazymuchacho

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#27 : December 31, 2008, 01:27:37 AM

(On if the team should use all the cap space)
“I don’t know about that. You just don’t max out your cap unless you are logically going after somebody that you think is a fine football player that qualifies, or that has earned that right to seek those kinds of dollars. We will do the best we can to field the best roster.”

That response worries me. That's not what someone who is determined to get this team back to the top generally says...

msakaniwa

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#28 : December 31, 2008, 08:25:48 AM

Not up to him how much money to spend...  Maybe he should have just said that then...

BucsGuru

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#29 : December 31, 2008, 08:26:58 AM

I read somewhere where Gruden thought they sucked, but maybe that was just me.......
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