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Feel Real Good

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#30 : December 31, 2008, 09:16:13 AM

Really? Care to list the "historic" spending and draft picks and compare them with other NFL teams?

I'm not going to say it's historic, but it's still pretty darned impressive. The team's sunk a first round pick, two second, a third and a big FA contract into the offensive line over the last few years. For comparison, the Giant's starting line goes fifth round pick, UDFA, free agent who was previously an UDFA, second round pick, third round pick. I'll admit that I have no idea how big of contracts their FA additions on their line got. But it gives you the basic idea. Given the investment the team has made in the offensive line, they should be really, really good.

Don't forget the picks for Colmer and Buenning as well

Sure, but they've hit on more than they missed in terms of drafting OL.

Can we all agree that OL and DL are the two most important units on the field? If you say yes then pour all the resources to shore those units up as you want.
Of course, but trends show good teams can find quality guards, centers, and right tackles later in the draft or in free agency easier than you can find good quality defensive linemen there, so every 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round pick the Bucs use on those positions because they are incapable of finding late round and undrafted gems has prevented them from building a very formidable defensive line.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

CurtR1995

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#31 : December 31, 2008, 10:37:39 AM

The other issue is that to build a success franchise, you have to build several units in parallel, not in a straight line.  The Bucs have gone all in on the Oline (and with limited results, which is even worse) at the expense of the other positions.

When you have a coach who is a pass first play caller and that currently the Bucs QB is Brian Giese, and the best case scenario is a washed up Matt Hassleback, you really have to wonder what plan was ever in place here.


cheveliar

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#32 : December 31, 2008, 10:40:48 AM

Everyone rails on the OL but they're the least of the problems

People rail on the OL because we aren't seeing the dominant force we expected after such a huge investment

Some investments mature early some don't.  Maybe your expectations were out of whack? 

Without Carl Nix it feels like our running game just took a death blow to the face!


keeponbucn

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#33 : December 31, 2008, 10:53:42 AM

Some investments mature early some don't. Maybe your expectations were out of whack?

That's certainly the case, people expect domination right away. The investments will pay off, the FO is building the team the right way. Now let's focus on the DL and QB, once those are set people will be thankful the FO made the investments in the right order.

You build from the inside out

Feel Real Good

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#34 : December 31, 2008, 10:54:47 AM

Everyone rails on the OL but they're the least of the problems

People rail on the OL because we aren't seeing the dominant force we expected after such a huge investment

Some investments mature early some don't.  Maybe your expectations were out of whack? 
When do we get dividends? Trueblood's contract is up after 2009. Are we going to have to sign him to an extension before we even know if he's the answer?

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

cheveliar

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#35 : December 31, 2008, 10:58:11 AM

Everyone rails on the OL but they're the least of the problems

People rail on the OL because we aren't seeing the dominant force we expected after such a huge investment

Some investments mature early some don't. Maybe your expectations were out of whack?
When do we get dividends? Trueblood's contract is up after 2009. Are we going to have to sign him to an extension before we even know if he's the answer?

Moreover some investments never pan out or the people who own them run out of patience waiting for them to come to fruition.  You may not like some of the inconsistancies from Trueblood.  Hell, even I have problems with the untimely penalties.  But I'd hardly call him a bust or call for a replacement for him unless we're taking the Smith or Other(sp).

Without Carl Nix it feels like our running game just took a death blow to the face!


Feel Real Good

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#36 : December 31, 2008, 11:07:11 AM

I guess our expectations have really been lowered. I can live with that kind of play if it's Chris Denman, but despite being a late 2nd round pick, Trueblood was the 5th tackle picked in the whole draft and the 2nd non-left tackle. Additionally you had guys like Eric Winston and Willie Colon drafted after Trueblood who are starting right tackles right now, with Winston already receiving a $30 million contract extension.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

cheveliar

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#37 : December 31, 2008, 11:21:24 AM

I guess our expectations have really been lowered. I can live with that kind of play if it's Chris Denman, but despite being a late 2nd round pick, Trueblood was the 5th tackle picked in the whole draft and the 2nd non-left tackle. Additionally you had guys like Eric Winston and Willie Colon drafted after Trueblood who are starting right tackles right now, with Winston already receiving a $30 million contract extension.

First of all Denman would be awesome to play just below what Trublood is doing.  Dude has the frame, but like JJ and Gaines needs a few trips to Big Mama's house.  He's go the body and nothing on it.  Manut Bol has more body fat that Denman...As far as other players are concerned that's the Houston Texans we're the Buccaneers.  Who cares how they spend their money?

Without Carl Nix it feels like our running game just took a death blow to the face!


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#38 : December 31, 2008, 11:27:05 AM

Trueblood just doesn't have the skill.  He's got the attitude, just not the skill.  He's easily the worst O-lineman on the team.



cheveliar

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#39 : December 31, 2008, 01:22:30 PM

Trueblood just doesn't have the skill. He's got the attitude, just not the skill. He's easily the worst O-lineman on the team.



Overall that's so way not true.  If you look at True this year vs Sears this year, you'd be amazed at how bad Sears played at times.  Dude was on the ground a lot, and not on top of people either.  He got twisted and beat badly on some inside outside stunts for sacks as well.  I Love our line and I'm sure it shows in my posts.  But if I had to pic the worst this year, in my mind, it'd be Sears...

Most people don't watch for and rewind during the game to see who missed a block or what happened up front to cause a play to go bad.  If you miss an assignment or block or get beat off the snap there's room to recover and for someone to help.  Sears got the benefit of that from Faine and Penn a few times this year.  No penalty so no attention drawn to him.  Not saying JT doesn't need to be in the game mentally a little more because he does.  Actually I think that will cure half his ill's the other half is opponent film study.  He knows the plays and knows the count from the huddle.  Doesn't know his enemy well enough to know what move to counter on certain plays...

Without Carl Nix it feels like our running game just took a death blow to the face!


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#40 : December 31, 2008, 01:29:42 PM

Sears didn't have a good year, I won't argue that point.

What I will argue is Sears' talent level as opposed to Trueblood's.  Sears is far more talented and will do much better in the NFL than Trueblood, IMO.



CurtR1995

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#41 : December 31, 2008, 01:30:35 PM

I agree, as bad as Trueblood was, Sears was terrible.  

cheveliar

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#42 : December 31, 2008, 01:33:19 PM

Sears didn't have a good year, I won't argue that point.

What I will argue is Sears' talent level as opposed to Trueblood's. Sears is far more talented and will do much better in the NFL than Trueblood, IMO.



That very well might be "True" but he didn't show it this year...In my opinion Sears regressed horribly.  Not many noticed or said a word, been preaching it for weeks.  Go back and watch some of the games...It's ok to be pissed off at a player, but be fair.  The overall worst and can't get better stigma doesn't belong to True or any of these guys.  But True is definitely not the worst this year.

Without Carl Nix it feels like our running game just took a death blow to the face!


umguy1999

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#43 : December 31, 2008, 01:34:18 PM

Everyone rails on the OL but they're the least of the problems

People rail on the OL because we aren't seeing the dominant force we expected after such a huge investment

If we had a QB that can complete a 30+ pass to a wide open WR because a safety is in the box, we would not have more defenders than blockers on most of our running plays. When we have 6 guys blocking 8 defenders bad things happen,  when we can't run a screen because the entire defense is within 5 yards of the LOS I am not sure that falls on the O-line.
In any case we have 4 young strong O-linemen that have not worked together for all that long, so I am not worried about them, not to mention its hard to play O-line when your QB sees pressure that is not even there and moves all over the pocket and has an arm that can't hit the side of a barn at more than 20 yards.
Our problem is QB, and Dline, fix those areas and maybe as a bonus get a stud HB and a WR to compliment Byrant and we are easily a 12 win team with a good shot at a SB.

Biggs3535

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#44 : December 31, 2008, 01:35:29 PM

But True is definitely not the worst this year.

For the record, I didn't say Trueblood was the worst this year.  I said as far as talent goes, he's the worst.


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