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#30 : January 18, 2007, 06:59:11 PM

I would rather have Calvin Johnson alone than Gaines Adams and Robert Meachem.  The guy is that good.

Who's draft profile is this?

One of the finest athletes to ever wear a [deleted] uniform … Consummate team player who is a sensational home-run threat bursting down the sidelines … Emotional leader who can handle hard coaching; he could be the ruler that future pro receivers are measured against … The tireless worker finished his career with 135 receptions for 2,821 yards (20.9 avg.) and 27 touchdowns in only 24 games...

It's for Charles Rogers who was selected #2 in 2003, a full 52 slots ahead of Anquan Boldin who is considered one of the best receivers in the league today.  "Consummate team player"?  "Tireless worker"?  Rogers was none of those things, yet he was all the rage pre-draft 2003.  Calvin Johnson looks great on paper and at Tech (I live in Atlanta, so I am fully immersed in the whole CJ craze right now) but I really don't like the idea of the Bucs taking him with such a high pick.  It's SO risky.  I've been watching Meachem for years now and can tell you he is less risky than Johnson, especially in the second round.  Meachem is quick, has great hands, sacrifices his body across the middle and has good fundamentals.  If he lasts into the second round (and it looks like he will now that Jarrett and Ginn declared,) the Bucs should take him and use their #1 pick defensively.



But you see, Rogers went to the LIONS!  Come on, he goes to a team where the only thing that has been consistant is their losing!  Put Rogers in Gruden's system, and I guarantee the outcome would be different.

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#31 : January 18, 2007, 07:03:19 PM

At this point, the only thing I'm more tired of than CJ is people talking about trading down. Yeah, we'd trade down a bit if it were that easy. It rarely is.



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#32 : January 18, 2007, 07:05:05 PM

At this point, the only thing I'm more tired of than CJ is people talking about trading down. Yeah, we'd trade down a bit if it were that easy. It rarely is.

How true.

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#33 : January 18, 2007, 07:05:55 PM

At this point, the only thing I'm more tired of than CJ is people talking about trading down. Yeah, we'd trade down a bit if it were that easy. It rarely is.

Someone has to come up with a reason to trade down and I'm yet to see one. People want to pick apart Thomas or Calvin but yet there's some dude at #8 that is just that money?

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.



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#34 : January 18, 2007, 07:08:29 PM

I would rather have Calvin Johnson alone than Gaines Adams and Robert Meachem.  The guy is that good.

Who's draft profile is this?

One of the finest athletes to ever wear a [deleted] uniform … Consummate team player who is a sensational home-run threat bursting down the sidelines … Emotional leader who can handle hard coaching; he could be the ruler that future pro receivers are measured against … The tireless worker finished his career with 135 receptions for 2,821 yards (20.9 avg.) and 27 touchdowns in only 24 games...

It's for Charles Rogers who was selected #2 in 2003, a full 52 slots ahead of Anquan Boldin who is considered one of the best receivers in the league today.  "Consummate team player"?  "Tireless worker"?  Rogers was none of those things, yet he was all the rage pre-draft 2003.  Calvin Johnson looks great on paper and at Tech (I live in Atlanta, so I am fully immersed in the whole CJ craze right now) but I really don't like the idea of the Bucs taking him with such a high pick.  It's SO risky.  I've been watching Meachem for years now and can tell you he is less risky than Johnson, especially in the second round.  Meachem is quick, has great hands, sacrifices his body across the middle and has good fundamentals.  If he lasts into the second round (and it looks like he will now that Jarrett and Ginn declared,) the Bucs should take him and use their #1 pick defensively.



That has Scout Speak written all over it !  :D But I can appreciate your point.

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#35 : January 18, 2007, 07:24:13 PM

After reading every PR Poster mock draft, I sure hope the Bucs don't draft Brian Leonard.


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#36 : January 18, 2007, 07:19:48 PM

Someone has to come up with a reason to trade down and I'm yet to see one. People want to pick apart Thomas or Calvin but yet there's some dude at #8 that is just that money?

I don't think the reason to trade down will come from within the Bucs. If a reason to trade down presents itself, it will more likely be borne of another team's desire to move up, which will put the onus on them to come up with a attractive enough package to convince the Bucs to do so, whatever that may be.

That's why, even tho I'm dead set against drafting CJ, I can see the advantage of being in position to draft him or one of the QB's that someone may covet.


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#37 : January 18, 2007, 07:46:41 PM

But you see, Rogers went to the LIONS!  Come on, he goes to a team where the only thing that has been consistant is their losing!  Put Rogers in Gruden's system, and I guarantee the outcome would be different.

The Lions being a bad team shouldn't have affected his attitude.  He was lazy in practice, constantly injured and had a drug problem.  None of those issues have anything to do with the team he was on.  He was just a **CENSORED**bag, which no one seemed to see coming when he was being hyped pre-draft.  My point is that no one is a sure thing, and wide receivers seem especially susceptible to being overrated.



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#38 : January 18, 2007, 09:32:42 PM

But you see, Rogers went to the LIONS! Come on, he goes to a team where the only thing that has been consistant is their losing! Put Rogers in Gruden's system, and I guarantee the outcome would be different.

The Lions being a bad team shouldn't have affected his attitude. He was lazy in practice, constantly injured and had a drug problem. None of those issues have anything to do with the team he was on. He was just a **CENSORED**bag, which no one seemed to see coming when he was being hyped pre-draft. My point is that no one is a sure thing, and wide receivers seem especially susceptible to being overrated.



What happened to Charles Rogers has no bearing on Calvin Johnson.  The scouts blew one, so what?  Is that to say that every player who's deemed a good guy is now undraftable? 

And the fact that Rogers went to the Lions certainly does factor into it.  Everything you just said about Rogers, minus the drug problem, was said about Thomas Jones and Simeon Rice while they were in Arizona.  Losing organizations beget losing players.

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#39 : January 19, 2007, 12:34:59 AM

But you see, Rogers went to the LIONS!  Come on, he goes to a team where the only thing that has been consistant is their losing!  Put Rogers in Gruden's system, and I guarantee the outcome would be different.

The Lions being a bad team shouldn't have affected his attitude.  He was lazy in practice, constantly injured and had a drug problem.  None of those issues have anything to do with the team he was on.  He was just a **CENSORED**bag, which no one seemed to see coming when he was being hyped pre-draft.  My point is that no one is a sure thing, and wide receivers seem especially susceptible to being overrated.



Yeah but the problem is, you can use that argument for ANY player in the draft...and I can even argue that Quarterbacks are way more susceptible to being overrated.  I would like to see a comparitive list on that one...

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#40 : January 19, 2007, 02:20:32 AM

nobody is going to trade down, CJ or JT  is going to be a buc, im leaning towards CJ, Gruden needs Simms to succeed


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#41 : January 19, 2007, 07:58:24 AM

nobody is going to trade down, CJ or JT is going to be a buc, im leaning towards CJ, Gruden needs Simms to succeed

A solid line is much more important to Simms' success than a WR


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#42 : January 19, 2007, 08:11:45 AM

Joe Thomas or Bust!!!!  ;D

Without Carl Nix it feels like our running game just took a death blow to the face!


goto11

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#43 : January 19, 2007, 01:01:15 PM

Yeah but the problem is, you can use that argument for ANY player in the draft...and I can even argue that Quarterbacks are way more susceptible to being overrated.  I would like to see a comparitive list on that one...

Between 1995 and 2005, there were 28 receivers taken in the first 15 picks.  Of those, I would consider 8 as good or great, 10 as ok and 10 as below average or busts.

During the same period, 26 quarterbacks were taken in the first round (I used the entire first round because the pool of QBs is smaller).  Of those, I would consider 6 as good or great, 10 as ok 9 as bad or busts and 1 unknown (Aaron Rodgers, who hasn't had enough time.)

I suspect that if I did the same for any position, I would get similar results.  So, if your point is that any position can be overrated, I would agree (although it just SEEMS like receivers get so much more hype than other positions.)

But let's not give Charles Rogers too much credit.  Larry Fitzgerald is another #2 pick receiver working for a cursed team, yet his work ethic has been great.  So has Boldin's.  Andre Johnson just had a career season for the still-failing Texans.  Roy Williams isn't doing so bad for the Lions these days.  Plenty of good receivers play for crap teams and still manage to rise above their surroundings.  Scouts just plain missed on Rogers.



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#44 : January 19, 2007, 01:32:18 PM

Joe Thomas or Bust!!!!  ;D

Sometimes I think the best OT gets overrated a little, and all OT's in general on this board. Last year people though there would be like 6 1st rounders. I wouldn't be suprised if we passed on him and he went 5th to the Cardinals. Ferguson was better than him last year.
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