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CurtR1995

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#30 : January 19, 2007, 07:56:10 AM

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Dallas won 3 Super Bowls and never used the gun. SF won what 4? No gun. GB won their SB with no gun. IIRC I don't recall Vermeil's Rams using the gun.

People act like the gun is some magically fix-it all for bad offenses. It isn't. Gruden doesn't believe it in and I've heard enough former QB's argue against it that I'm inclined to belive that there's nothing about the gun that will make this offense any better.
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But if the players feel more comfortable with the gun, why isn't it in the coach's best interest to put his players in an offense they want to run?  BTW, NE uses the gun, and they are the most successfull franchise in this decade.  I do agree however that this offense is a whole lot more than the shotgun formation from being bad, let alone average.  We need skill players accross the board, save a 35 year old WR, a LT, a QB, a real OC, and a passing game that doesnt feature the 2 yard route with the back to the defense.  Also a screen or draw game would help. 

Simms is a shot gun QB if their ever was one.  He is a deep in the pocket, scan the field, and throw the ball deep.  None of that sounds anything like this offense, which makes his signing all that more odd. 



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#31 : January 19, 2007, 08:48:01 AM

Does Holmgren use the shotgun? Also please, nobody calls him an 'offensive genius' but hey I guess if Dungy has reclaimed his 'defensive genius' tag after two playoff games then Gruden indeed is an 'offensive genius'.

I agree with you, but actually, Holmgren used the shotgun in crunch time last weekend.

dalbuc

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#32 : January 19, 2007, 09:04:29 AM


But if the players feel more comfortable with the gun, why isn't it in the coach's best interest to put his players in an offense they want to run? 

The better question is if you don't run the gun why do you have players that feel more comfortable in it and then why do you re-sign them? I think there's always an element of fitting your scheme to your people...it is what made 2005 actually work for example but at some point you have a scheme and your players have to work in that scheme. Your job as a coach is to get them to do so. This is no different than if a defensive player was griping about all this one gap crap and saying he feels better ina  2 gap scheme. 5 of the last 6 SB winners were 2 gap teams, why doesn't Monte change his defense to help them out?

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.
If you think Manziel is the best QB in this draft I can safely assume you are an idiot and will treat you as such.

dalbuc

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#33 : January 19, 2007, 09:27:42 AM

Are you mad because Simms is the future of this franchise, and Rice sucks???

Funny thing is as bad as Rice was this year, he was still better than Simms. At least Rice didn't help the team by getting hurt.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.
If you think Manziel is the best QB in this draft I can safely assume you are an idiot and will treat you as such.

MrFreakinMiyagi

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#34 : January 19, 2007, 09:26:25 AM


In that context, he said the shotgun does help him get a better angle for these snapshots.

You mean he used the shotgun to shoot their arms off maybe? That might help his angles.
Are you mad because Simms is the future of this franchise, and Rice sucks???
Welcome back ABuccccccccccs. Glad you could make it. This place wasn't the same without you...... Well, it will probably still not be the same with you.

Now, proceed to rip me a new one.

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MrFreakinMiyagi

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#35 : January 19, 2007, 09:29:34 AM

Are you mad because Simms is the future of this franchise, and Rice sucks???

At least Rice didn't help the team by getting hurt.
Yikes...... That's brutal.

If Simms' injury helped, it must not have helped much.

What do you think our record would have been with Simms under center all year??

Dolorus Jason on a ban bet with me over the BCS Championship: \"You have your bet. I ain\'t scurred.\"- 12/8 \"Youre being banned from your own stupidity. Enjoy.\"-12/8 \"Prepare for your ban .\" -12/9 \"Miyagi gonna be banned.\"-12/9 \"Best bet I ever made ...\"-12/9 \"Miyagi mad , gettin banned.\"-12/9\"You mIght need a break from the board. Our bet should help you do just that.\"-12/10 11:38 AM
 \"The bet is off now.\"12/10 1:24 PM

CurtR1995

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#36 : January 19, 2007, 09:38:36 AM


But if the players feel more comfortable with the gun, why isn't it in the coach's best interest to put his players in an offense they want to run?

The better question is if you don't run the gun why do you have players that feel more comfortable in it and then why do you re-sign them? I think there's always an element of fitting your scheme to your people...it is what made 2005 actually work for example but at some point you have a scheme and your players have to work in that scheme. Your job as a coach is to get them to do so. This is no different than if a defensive player was griping about all this one gap crap and saying he feels better ina 2 gap scheme. 5 of the last 6 SB winners were 2 gap teams, why doesn't Monte change his defense to help them out?

You aren't going to have a successful 2 gap with 275 pound D Linemen, which is what the Bucs have.  Monte, however, has coached elite one gap defenses as recently as 2005, so his credibility is hardly in doubt.

You aren't going to have a successful WCO with a RB who can't catch or pass block and a QB that is a 7 step drop guy if there ever was one.   Gruden hasn't coached an elite offense since 2001, and was the guy who either drafted or re-signed the key players on offense, so both his GM ability and his ability to find the balance between scheme/talent is most certainly up for debate. 



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#37 : January 19, 2007, 10:15:12 AM

Are you mad because Simms is the future of this franchise, and Rice sucks???

Funny thing is as bad as Rice was this year, he was still better than Simms. At least Rice didn't help the team by getting hurt.

Dude, that's cold.   :o

;)

dalbuc

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#38 : January 19, 2007, 11:33:24 AM


What do you think our record would have been with Simms under center all year??

We were 0-3 with him so you prorate his numbers and we'da been....0-16. ;)

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.
If you think Manziel is the best QB in this draft I can safely assume you are an idiot and will treat you as such.

umguy1999

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#39 : January 19, 2007, 11:53:51 AM

Gruden has stated repeatedly that the shotgun has the disadvantage of taking too long for the QB to find and hit receivers because he's too busy looking at rushing defenses. I have no idea of the validity of his argument, but he does have a reason beyond pride...fyi.


Dallas won 3 Super Bowls and never used the gun. SF won what 4? No gun. GB won their SB with no gun. IIRC I don't recall Vermeil's Rams using the gun.

People act like the gun is some magically fix-it all for bad offenses. It isn't. Gruden doesn't believe it in and I've heard enough former QB's argue against it that I'm inclined to belive that there's nothing about the gun that will make this offense any better.

When we get the 90's Cowboys O-line then we can put our QB under center every down, San Fran won with Talent from A-Z and were the only team running a WCO at the time, its old hat to a defense now days, Green Bay also lost one. When we get Troy Aikman, Steve Young, Joe Montana, or Brett favre in their prime, then you can bring up useless points about the shotgun.
So far we have have one winning year under Gruden without Simms as a QB, and we won the SB that year with a QB who was not even a Gruden guy.
I find it very logical that since so many of Simms passes were tipped and a lot of Grad's as well, and we have never had a good offense since Brad left (even then it was average)that maybe a shotgun formation just may be worth a try. Its takes a lot less time to take your eyes off the field for a split second it takes for the snap to get from the center to the QB, than it does to take 3 steps. Every other team has shotgun plays, we need it because our O-line is not even in the same universe as the Cowboys, Rams, Green Bay or Niners in their SB years.

MrFreakinMiyagi

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#40 : January 19, 2007, 12:30:10 PM


What do you think our record would have been with Simms under center all year??

We were 0-3 with him so you prorate his numbers and we'da been....0-16. ;)
Touche...... ;)

Dolorus Jason on a ban bet with me over the BCS Championship: \"You have your bet. I ain\'t scurred.\"- 12/8 \"Youre being banned from your own stupidity. Enjoy.\"-12/8 \"Prepare for your ban .\" -12/9 \"Miyagi gonna be banned.\"-12/9 \"Best bet I ever made ...\"-12/9 \"Miyagi mad , gettin banned.\"-12/9\"You mIght need a break from the board. Our bet should help you do just that.\"-12/10 11:38 AM
 \"The bet is off now.\"12/10 1:24 PM

Boid Fink

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#41 : January 20, 2007, 12:32:32 AM

I doubt the Bucs would be 0-16 with Simms under the gun.  I think it would be fair to say they would have won 4 games...lol...

The Bucs have more issues than the QB ones anyway.  The entire team is in a crisis alert mode.


dalbuc

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#42 : January 20, 2007, 12:53:35 PM

We all know you're a smart guy Dal....everyone says something stupid every once in a while. You get a pass on this one.

Hey, Simms < Grads, as bad as Grad got by any meaningful measure he was better than Simms.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.
If you think Manziel is the best QB in this draft I can safely assume you are an idiot and will treat you as such.

umguy1999

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#43 : January 20, 2007, 02:00:40 PM

Unless you count Wins, Stats and talent.
We all know you're a smart guy Dal....everyone says something stupid every once in a while. You get a pass on this one.

Hey, Simms < Grads, as bad as Grad got by any meaningful measure he was better than Simms.

Unless you count Wins, Stat's and Talent.

dalbuc

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#44 : January 20, 2007, 02:05:03 PM

Unless you count Wins, Stat's and Talent.

Grads had more wins and a higher win % this season. He had a better TD:INT ratio, the same completion %, a much better QBR so I'm not sure I'd use wins and stats as my basis. Talent, meh, tell me about results not talent.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.
If you think Manziel is the best QB in this draft I can safely assume you are an idiot and will treat you as such.
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