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Boid Fink

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#15 : January 30, 2007, 02:36:35 AM

A good pass rush in general is very important buut the actual defense is never really built around a DL. They are just the engine. The defense was built to funnel rush plays to Derrick Brooks. So this version of the Bucs Tampa 2 with D Brooks in it, is designed to have Brooks in and around every play
Disagree.

Pass rush is the cornerstone of ALL defensive schemes.




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#16 : January 30, 2007, 02:46:19 AM

Defenses should be built from inside out I agree. I agree that without a good DT/DL the LB cant succeed just like I believe without a half-way decent OL a RB cant succeed. Offensive schemes arent "built" around the OL and defensive schemes arent "built" around the DL. As far as most important position in the Tampa 2? I would probably say UT, then again DE and MLB are very key also. However in the BUcs particular Tampa 2 they filter everything through to Brooks, so you might say the defense is built aorund him

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#17 : January 30, 2007, 05:35:39 AM

When you are talking about the design of the defense, you have to look at it from 2 different scenarios.  If you are talking about the run, your DLs are there to maintain their lanes and tie up the OLs and funnel the runners to Brooks and Quarles.  If you are talking about pass, then as was said earlier, the design is to have the UT be freed up and get the push up the middle and disrupt the QBs ability to step up in the pocket and to either get a sack, push the QB to the DEs or cause a bad pass that is incomplete or is intercepted.  The thing that Sapp did that made him so special was he could beat the double team block or cause the offense to commit more blockers to him and that would free up the NT and DEs more.

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#18 : January 30, 2007, 09:52:48 AM

I see it kind of like baseball. You have to be extremely strong up the middle for this defense to be dominant.  I hate to sound like I'm not giving DB his props, but the Q was critical in this defense as well as Warren and Lynch when we were a great defense.  However, I agree that it's all about pressure from the front four.  They allow our linebackers to fill gaps cleanly without guys all over them and that same pressure allows your "system" DB's the opportunity to take a few chances or cover some of their deficiencies...

Without Carl Nix it feels like our running game just took a death blow to the face!


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#19 : January 30, 2007, 10:48:18 AM

The UT is the most important position on the DL in the Tampa 2 defense. John Randle defined the position before Warren Sapp refined it. Basically, the three-technique requires a very active guy who can move and create pressure up the middle. You want that, because on passing plays he disrupts the QB's vision and forces him to step out of the middle of the pocket and forces him toward your defensive ends.

But it doesn't end on passing downs. The three disrupts running plays as well, because it's hard to double him. Since the three plays shaded on the guard, if you want to double him you're going to have to have your tackle step down or you're going to bring up a back to hopefully get a chip on him. On a running down, that's a lot more difficult to do, so if you have a really active player at the UT position, he's going to get/force a lot of tackles for loss on running plays, and he's going to create a lot of sacks for other players on the DL by forcing the QB out of middle.

There is no question that the three technique is the position that drives the productivity of the DL. Couple a real active, real good UT with a quick, strong DE and an adequate NT and your defensive statistics improve dramatically.

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#20 : January 30, 2007, 11:50:45 AM

The UT is the most important position on the DL in the Tampa 2 defense. John Randle defined the position before Warren Sapp refined it. Basically, the three-technique requires a very active guy who can move and create pressure up the middle. You want that, because on passing plays he disrupts the QB's vision and forces him to step out of the middle of the pocket and forces him toward your defensive ends.

But it doesn't end on passing downs. The three disrupts running plays as well, because it's hard to double him. Since the three plays shaded on the guard, if you want to double him you're going to have to have your tackle step down or you're going to bring up a back to hopefully get a chip on him. On a running down, that's a lot more difficult to do, so if you have a really active player at the UT position, he's going to get/force a lot of tackles for loss on running plays, and he's going to create a lot of sacks for other players on the DL by forcing the QB out of middle.

There is no question that the three technique is the position that drives the productivity of the DL. Couple a real active, real good UT with a quick, strong DE and an adequate NT and your defensive statistics improve dramatically.
Well stated sir...sums it up beautifully.

DeadmenTNT

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#21 : January 30, 2007, 12:13:52 PM

The undertackle is most important by design. The RDE (Rice) is the pass rush end by virtue of the fact that he plays on the weakside due to the way the offense lines up on most, but not all, plays. He never flops to the opposite end just because the tight end lines up on him. The tackles, however, do flop from side to side. The NT lines up shading the center to the strongside of the formation. That does two things. It lines the NT up on the side the offense is most likely to run to. It also causes the center to account for the NT first since he is closest to the QB. Hence the NT draws the double team from the center and guard on his side. In theory that leaves the UT singled up on the other guard. The guy with the single blocker is expected to beat his man and make a play.     

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#22 : January 30, 2007, 01:38:57 PM

Which Sapp did and Bogger didnt hence some of our problems last year.

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#23 : January 30, 2007, 01:55:31 PM

If you really want to find the origins of the Tampa 2, you have to go back to the 70's Steelers with the original architect Bud Carson. They had perhaps the greatest UT ever in Joe Greene, they had a MLB that could get deep drops in Lambert a great WLB in Ham an awesome corner in Blount and a tough safety in Donnie Shell. It didn't hurt that they had good to great players at every other position as well(Greenwood, Holmes, White, Winston, Wagner and Thomas) No wonder Dungy fell in love with that defensive scheme.

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#24 : January 30, 2007, 02:13:36 PM

The undertackle is most important by design. The RDE (Rice) is the pass rush end by virtue of the fact that he plays on the weakside due to the way the offense lines up on most, but not all, plays. He never flops to the opposite end just because the tight end lines up on him. The tackles, however, do flop from side to side. The NT lines up shading the center to the strongside of the formation. That does two things. It lines the NT up on the side the offense is most likely to run to. It also causes the center to account for the NT first since he is closest to the QB. Hence the NT draws the double team from the center and guard on his side. In theory that leaves the UT singled up on the other guard. The guy with the single blocker is expected to beat his man and make a play.
Not to mention leaving everyone else singled up for the most part, including what would be your most effective pass rusher on most teams, the RDE. The theory is if your UT is active and the NT can draw the double, someone that is singled is bound to beat their guy to get to the QB.



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#25 : January 30, 2007, 02:24:01 PM

MT could be the steal of the draft and what we are looking for in speed and playmaking ability
he is 6'4 296 and runs a 4.7/40 squats 520 and benches 340+

"Thomas is an impact interior lineman. He is the player you always look to neutralize first when game planning against the Gator line. He has a quick burst off the line of scrimmage to gain the initial step on the lineman. Once moving forward, his combination of strength, agility, and determination make him hard to stop. Thomas is very good at getting into the backfield and disrupting the play, but also has the strength to hold his ground at the point of attack and plug running lanes."

Marcus is extrememly athletic he is a pass rusher and a run stopper. With MT in the game we held Tennessee to 24 net yards rushing and it was a major part because of MT ability to stuff the runner in the backfield

I know what you guys say about his "drug use" Just remember Urban Meyer didnt suspend Marcus for drug use....just for going to Halloween Horror Nights and skipping a session with the counselors

Also remember the one UT that we drafted from Miami who had similar problems....yeah you guessed him #99
and nobody really had a bad word for Warren


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#26 : January 30, 2007, 04:36:37 PM

Like Gruden said it's all about Pressure, Pressure and more Pressure.
A push up the middle flushes the QB right to the DEs, disrupts trowing lanes, and can disrupt the running game by getting into the mix.


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#27 : January 31, 2007, 11:04:30 AM

MT could be the steal of the draft and what we are looking for in speed and playmaking ability
he is 6'4 296 and runs a 4.7/40 squats 520 and benches 340+

1. There's no way thats correct.

2. I so called you pimping Thomas a while back. Oh well, it's nice to see one post here that isn't OKOYE OKOYE OKOYE!

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#28 : January 31, 2007, 11:11:51 AM

caradoc, that was a great post.  Thanks.

With teams drifting to the 3-4 (well, except the Superbowl teams this year) does the classic Tampa2 UT become less desirable?  Alan Branch is widely touted as the best DT in the draft, but he's probably best used as a NT in a 3-4, not an UT (or even NT) in the Bucs' 4-3.  So does a guy like Okoye fall a bit because he's not a good fit for many teams playing a 3-4?  On the other hand, a guy like Woodley would be a perfect OLB in a 3-4 (and played LB in college some), so he might be in more demand, even though he could also play DE for the Bucs 4-3.



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#29 : January 31, 2007, 01:03:05 PM

MT could be the steal of the draft and what we are looking for in speed and playmaking ability
he is 6'4 296 and runs a 4.7/40 squats 520 and benches 340+

1. There's no way thats correct.

2. I so called you pimping Thomas a while back. Oh well, it's nice to see one post here that isn't OKOYE OKOYE OKOYE!

Just read it on the GBN site that has all the stats on MT....he runs a 4.7- 40 time....If it wasnt for off the field issues he would have been a 1st rounder maybe the first DT taken.

Also he gets a bad rap for the Drug use. He tested positive at the beginning of the season. The second test was positive and he appealed stating the pot was still in his system. The union agreed after a negative third test.....However MT still was on a rehab program. The dismissal from the team came when he skipped his meeting and went to Halloween Horror Nights at Universal....from what I hear MT is clean and has been since his first positive test.

He is geting the same rap Sapp did

For a third round pick he would be a STEAL!
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