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ABuccs Fan

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#30 : January 31, 2007, 06:36:10 PM

The only way you move Rice is if you can make a play for Freeney and essentially trade older pass rusher for younger pass rusher and that extra space helps you do it.

The aging issue with Rice is big because he's a speed rusher once he loses half a step he's toast. I'm not vastly worried about his legs going soon because, like Jerry Rice, his off-season workouts are the stuff of legends. If you haven't read this:

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/07/06/Bucs/Beyond_Mortal_Limits.shtml

it should make you sore just reading it.
I wish he put as much effort into stopping the run, and backside pursuit as he does his workouts.

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#31 : January 31, 2007, 06:47:11 PM

I wish he put as much effort into stopping the run, and backside pursuit as he does his workouts.

Thats why in runs directed at him the Bucs have ranked 2nd, 15th, 8th and 6th and why the DL as a whole has been 2nd, 15th, 11th and 13th during the same period so he's not the weak link in that chain.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

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#32 : January 31, 2007, 06:58:00 PM

Rice would be good for a team making a superbowl push, which is what we were doing when we signed him (and it worked out in glorious fashion, he was amazing that year). On a rebuilding team like ours he's being wasted, although with how crazy in shape his body is in I would not be suprised if he was a quality player for another 5 years.

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#33 : January 31, 2007, 07:07:54 PM

 
Tomlin isn't with the Vikings anymore.
Stop letting the facts get in the way of a good rumor.  The quote from the article that most of the posters didn't even read probably.  "But he could be the missing piece to Vikings defensive coordinator Mike Tomlin's version of the Tampa-2 scheme..."  The article was written because of the Tomlin connection.


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#34 : January 31, 2007, 07:11:11 PM

The only way you move Rice is if you can make a play for Freeney and essentially trade older pass rusher for younger pass rusher and that extra space helps you do it.

The aging issue with Rice is big because he's a speed rusher once he loses half a step he's toast. I'm not vastly worried about his legs going soon because, like Jerry Rice, his off-season workouts are the stuff of legends. If you haven't read this:

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/07/06/Bucs/Beyond_Mortal_Limits.shtml

it should make you sore just reading it.

Sorta right Dal, but not thorough enough. 
"The only way you move Rice is if you can make a play for Freeney and essentially trade older pass rusher for younger pass rusher and that extra space helps you do it." - actually it doesn't have to just be Freeny, it could be a draftee as well.  Nit-picky, but don't limit your thinking.

"The aging issue with Rice is big because he's a speed rusher once he loses half a step he's toast. I'm not vastly worried about his legs going soon because, like Jerry Rice, his off-season workouts are the stuff of legends." -- the aging issue is a Big issue.  Not that he doesn't have some miles left in him still, but there needs to be a consideration to the future.  He'll be a stud for next year, maybe two, but that's not guaranteed.  What IS guaranteed is his trade value will drop every year.

I would suggest the following strategy in general (although there should be exceptions):  When a player is looking at 2-3 years left of being your starter at any position, it's time to cut ties and get value.  If you hold onto someone too long, when he finally goes you have 2 issues -- you didn't get anything in return, and his replacement isn't typically ready.  If we were making a serious push next year, I'd say keep him.  If we aren't going to be looking at draftin/FA for the line in a big way this year or next, then keep him, he's our only effective rusher and his loss would destroy our defense for another couple of years.  But if we are looking at getting someone else on the line this year, or even next, then his leaving would be a one-year issue - and if we get a rusher this year (like freeny or any other solid rusher) it isn't an issue at all.  I'd rather see us draft/FA a younger stud and get something in return than hang onto Sim just to see him have one good year and then wind down.  After next year, even with a big year, his value goes down and never comes back up.  It's risky to let a stud go, but in 3 years we are guaranteed to be studless there.  Now or in the future to get one we'll either FA or draft.  If we trade him now, we can draft one at a discount (figure a second for him, so subtract that value from a rd1 pick).  If we wait until he's dried up, we get no discount

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#35 : January 31, 2007, 07:11:24 PM

I wish he put as much effort into stopping the run, and backside pursuit as he does his workouts.

Thats why in runs directed at him the Bucs have ranked 2nd, 15th, 8th and 6th and why the DL as a whole has been 2nd, 15th, 11th and 13th during the same period so he's not the weak link in that chain.
Right!!!!!!!!!!!!! LMAO

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#36 : January 31, 2007, 07:15:39 PM

]Right!!!!!!!!!!!!! LMAO

Glad to see other than bad football knowledge you've got nothing else to backup your assertion.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

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#37 : January 31, 2007, 07:21:58 PM

]Right!!!!!!!!!!!!! LMAO

Glad to see other than bad football knowledge you've got nothing else to backup your assertion.
Oh, so you throw a bunch of imaginary numbers up there from sources no one can ever trace, and we're all supposed to always believe you. You bash and belittle everything that is Buccaneer football, except our biggest ass Simeon rice.

Rice was having a great year before his injury wasn't he!!!!

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#38 : January 31, 2007, 07:25:06 PM

Easy enough to piff your "imaginary" bit:

http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl2002.php
http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl2003.php
http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl2004.php
http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl2005.php

scroll down the page and get to the second table. Then look at left end runs which are the runs at the right end, as explained above the table they use direction based on the offense not the defense. Look for TB and find the rankings for that spot. Bingo, thank you, good night gracie.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

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#39 : January 31, 2007, 07:29:08 PM

]Right!!!!!!!!!!!!! LMAO

Glad to see other than bad football knowledge you've got nothing else to backup your assertion.
Oh, so you throw a bunch of imaginary numbers up there from sources no one can ever trace, and we're all supposed to always believe you. You bash and belittle everything that is Buccaneer football, except our biggest ass Simeon rice.

Rice was having a great year before his injury wasn't he!!!!

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/ for stats like that I believe.  or http://www.bucstats.com as well.  These aren't exactly secrets.

Simeon is neither as good as many diehards like to say, nor as indifferent as his detractors say.  Given any help at all along the line he'd be much better.  But his day is nearing it's end.


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#40 : January 31, 2007, 07:30:20 PM

Easy enough to piff your "imaginary" bit:

http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl2002.php
http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl2003.php
http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl2004.php
http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl2005.php

scroll down the page and get to the second table. Then look at left end runs which are the runs at the right end, as explained above the table they use direction based on the offense not the defense. Look for TB and find the rankings for that spot. Bingo, thank you, good night gracie.
LMAO you mean runs that went to the left? These categories are based on offensive gaps, Where the offensive play went. Where's the tables that say Rice made those plays.  Runs that Rice ran right by trying to get to the QB? Runs that someone else came up into his gap and made the tackles for him? Rice blows.

It's all good, I'm not upset that you wear your Rice jammies to bed. Next Christmas, I'm getting you fuzzy rice slippers to match them.

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#41 : January 31, 2007, 07:40:24 PM

LMAO you mean runs that went to the left? These categories are based on offensive gaps, Where the offensive play went. Where's the tables that say Rice made those plays.  Runs that Rice ran right by trying to get to the QB? Runs that someone else came up into his gap and made the tackles for him? Rice blows.
Quote

So you are proposing, let me get this straight,  that the man who plays over the offensive left-end somehow had nothing to do with the success of the defense in stopping plays at that spot.  Really? So your proposition is that Rice sucked all the time and those good run D stats are based on what? That somehow Rice's immense failure as a run defender doesn't manifest itself in production by our opponents is an interesting concept. You say Rice stunk, the stats say Rice didn't stink. Maybe the problem isn't the stats but your view of what is happening on the field.

Let's look at runs off left tackle, another gap Rice could be holding 11, 24, 3, 3 so of the 2 possible gaps rice should be in, over 4 seasons, 8 possible data points, the Bucs were below average 1 time in 8. Odd the way Rice is so bad yet oddly running to his side of the formation doesn't work out for those teams. Hmmm, just strange the way that happens.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

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#42 : January 31, 2007, 07:47:26 PM

 Rice sucks anyone not wanting to bear his children knows it. White played better than he did this season.

You still will never answer my question. How many players who are supposedly the best at their respective position play 60 minutes and aquire not stats? Give me names Sallybuc. Rice has disappeared 3 for sure, maybe got his 4th such accolade this season.


0 sacks, 0 tackles 0 assists after 60 minutes of play. For how many millions? What a piece of crap.



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#43 : February 01, 2007, 12:20:58 AM

I think I was harsh. Trade Rice if at all possible. But probably keep him for his last year on his contract considering we are 16th in cap space room anyway and have nothing else to spend it on. I believe in Rice. I think he was worse than some people seem to believe in 2004 and 2006 but in 2005 I thought he made a real effort to play the run and he did a good job. He also was a consistent pass rusher again. In 2006 he was bad. I dont care how you put it or whether you blame it on injury or not.

Id love to trade Simeon for a 2nd or 3rd round pick buut if not then keep him and wait until we find something better and hope Rice gets back on his game

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#44 : February 01, 2007, 09:01:37 AM

You still will never answer my question. How many players who are supposedly the best at their respective position play 60 minutes and aquire not stats?

Wait, now stats matter? Before they didn't matter when they showed Rice was doing well. Wow, you really will hold any ground for 1 second to serve your goals. We've been this ground before and guys like Freeney, Strahan and other get blanked. Everyone gets blanked. The problem you have is that you don't understand how hard it is to do what Rice, or Freeney do. No one gets there all the time. No one has averaged 16 sacks per game for their career and so obviously no one even gets there once per game so they are going to get shut down in some games and even more apparent is that no one gets there every play so all the "I saw him get blocked" stuff is true as well, he did. Any DE you want will get blocked - you should know what that looks like since White was stoned most of the year, getting blocked looks like that. The game isn't about never getting blocked but about actually not getting blocked a few times. A guy that doesn't get blocked 10+ times per year is a huge value. A pass rush THREAT is valuable.

Frankly this season should have showed that to you. This year we were 30th in sack ranking (http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl2005.php) and dropped 25 sacks. Last year we were 16th (http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl2005.php) and had 36 sacks. What was missing? Hmmm, not Dewayne White who got more chances to be great, no the missing element was Rice. We were 14th in pass defense (http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef2005.php) last year and were 27th this year (http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef.php) Hmmm, funny how that total lack of a pass rush does that to you. Oh and BTW, yes Kelly was missing but notice in 2003 (http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef2003.php) and we were 5th so his absence alone can't explain the drop off.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.
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