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bradentonian

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« #15 : February 01, 2007, 01:01:11 PM »

The owners and/or players are not obligated to take care of the older players who are in need.
But it's the right thing to do.

I could not have said it any better.  It's definitely the right thing to do.  This league is awash in money, and watching the pioneers in sickbeds or on the street because they can't get any financial support is sickening.


spartan

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« #16 : February 01, 2007, 01:08:58 PM »

Got to be honest and say that this is a tough one. I am in no doubt that former players shouldn't just be discarded but in the same breath there is also no doubt that there are a bunch of players who brought this upon themselves by blowing it all away or just plain bad decisions. The tough one is where is the line where you say, yes we ought to help this person and no we won't because he was an ass. Obviously they cannot just say we will help everyone regardless of the circumstances because then some idiots will party on knowing they will be taken care of. Take a look how people view Social Security. Similar mindset. It was never intended to be peoples sole source of retirement income but there is a boatload of people who do just that and get pissed because they can't afford their lifestyle.

I guess what I am saying is that while yes there are deserving cases, to say that there ought to be some blanket assistance scheme is not the answer. Maybe some kind of independent panel. Gene Upshaw is a total ass though, just wanted to throw that in.

ufojoe

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« #17 : February 01, 2007, 01:15:11 PM »

I don't think there should be a rule that says 1% or 2% of current players salaries should go to
the old guys. But it would be a nice gesture. It shouldn't be imposed (and can't because they
have a union but if the players vote for it, why not?

I always was amazed that folks like Sherwood Schwartz, who made millions on syndication
for his shows such as Gilligan's Island and The Brady Bunch, didn't go back and take care
of the actors that made the show what it was. Those actors didn't get any residuals
past a certain point. SS isn't obligated to help them out. But if it was me, I would hope
I would be generous enough to do something special for them.

If you want to buy an exact replica of Gilligan's hat and red shirt, check out:

www.bobdenver.com

Sorry for straying...

Spartan, if it's an across-the-board thing and some player misuse the funds, so be it.
It will still wind up helping people and that's what matters. If I give money to a homeless
person, somebody may say to me, "He's just going to buy beer with it." And I say,
"Maybe. Maybe not. But it still feels like the right thing to do and it MIGHT help
the guy out a bit."

Not that I give tons of money to homeless folks but I think you get my point.

Boid Fink

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« #18 : February 01, 2007, 01:19:39 PM »

Hey, if the guy is a hall of famer, and is incapable of paying some serious medical bills, or needs medical attention that he cannot afford, I think the NFL has enough money (not enough sympathy) to take care of such a thing.  It wouldn't even be a blip in their fiscal records.  And if another HOFer is homeless, I think the NFL has enough money to buy the guy a small place to live, and again, not a blip on their finances.  What could it hurt to review some of the cases?  And what would it hurt to cough up the dough to a person who helped establish the game we all love, and take care of them?  I am not saying give them new Rolexes and Mercedes, but take care of the ones who helped plant the game...


vipmark

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« #19 : February 01, 2007, 01:22:57 PM »

Merely being NFL fans does'nt give us much power to rectify this deplorable situation. I doubt that writing the NFL would do any good. Upshaw blames the active players. When the Player's radio shows begin next season we should respectfuly ask them what they plan to do about it.

vipmark

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« #20 : February 01, 2007, 01:26:44 PM »

Everyone should realize that these guys are not asking for anything extra, they just want what they were promised. The problem is that despite the diagnosis of the NFL's own expert doctors the NFL does not consider them disabled.

ufojoe

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« #21 : February 01, 2007, 01:27:16 PM »

Good one, V.I.P. I hope this matter is taken care of before then.

vipmark

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« #22 : February 01, 2007, 01:34:25 PM »

The NFL says Dobler could work a desk job....Dobler spent over 100 days in the hospital last year and has to take about 150 vicodin a month to manage the pain.....anyone who has seen his knees would understand.....It seems that what hurts these guys the most is that they feel they have become too great a burden on their families to continue living.

vipmark

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« #23 : February 01, 2007, 01:36:52 PM »

thanks for posting this ufo, it's been on my mind ever since I saw the Realsports episode.....on a lighter note, that same show did a great little story on NFL films



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« #24 : February 01, 2007, 01:49:49 PM »



I think the league has to take care of players when they sustain life long injuries due to playing the game

Thats the key.... the injuries they sustain due to playing the game. And Krazybuc, these guys didn't make $30 mil.

Uncle Stan

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« #25 : February 01, 2007, 02:37:52 PM »

Like Spartan said, this is a tough one.

Lets divide this into 2 groups (1) Those physically damaged by playing in the NFL(or any of the 4 major sports) and (2) those who didn't manage their income. Based on what I've read, this is what it boils down to.

Lets look at the 2nd group. Lets assume a person retired  from X Company and gets a pension and he also gets Social Security. Now 2 years later he has no money and hits the streets. Does X Company need to increase his pension? In the NFL whatever that player earned that year, it was higher than probaly 90% of the people working then-no matter what the year. So what did they do with it? Why is the NFL or company responsible? Why isn't the ex employee responsible for his own actions? Even if he gets cancer or some other dreadful disease, why is the company responsible-no matter how big or small the company is. Compassion for other human beings is all fine and good, but X Company and every other company can not realistically be expected to contribute.

Now lets get back to the first one. In my mind, if a player suffers damages from playing in their sport, I believe the leagues should have some means of assisting. There  should be some system set up (not part of any league, but an independent medical group)  that would evaluate the situation. If it was a person like Mercury Morris (IMO) it would be a flat no (don't even apply) because of what he did to his body with drugs (which was done by his own choosing). But when you see a player like Andre Waters commit suicide because (as 1 doctor implied) was the result of so many concussions, then you have to wonder. I believe there is some ground here to work with without the "hard nosed " response given by Upshaw. But here again one has to draw some kind of line as to who may qualify, for how much, for how long etc etc. But it can be worked out if the players, owners and union decide to get off their butts and do something.

JMO


Learn to disagree without being disagreeable-Ronald Reagan circa 1981

Ironphister

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« #26 : February 01, 2007, 02:42:51 PM »

they didn't make 30 mil but they must have made enough money to make nfl more appealing than said desk job - it was a personal decision.  none of these guys said hell with the nfl i'm gonna take that job in the coal mine or on the auto assembly line, etc...

i echo the overall opinion that something could be done - just use Warrick Dunn as an example of something being done...

i would still argue that a guy in his late 50's or 60's that hasn't played in 25 years or so needs to answer the question: wtf have you been doing and if you didn't see this day coming - who says that your former employer is responsible.  i don't get it.

i'm not against helping them out, but i do not think there is an obligation to do so. 


vipmark

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« #27 : February 01, 2007, 02:47:24 PM »

This isn't  about how they spent or mispent their money. It's about the league denying the fact that these guys are disabled, even though the leagues own experts say that they are. They only want what thay were promised, nothing more.

Ironphister

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« #28 : February 01, 2007, 02:54:35 PM »

VIP - are they not getting what they were promised?  who approves the CBA?  if a guy puts 10 years in at GM, retires at say 32 years old - his pension isn't gonna be much.  if the guy then goes and loses his a$$ in the stock market or just goes bust - it ain't GM's problem.

now if he worked 10 years and lost all his digits at a press, then yeah there should be monetary assistance because the guy can't work.

taking an official position of responsibility for these guys health conditions decades after they've played the game is a slippery slope i don't see them taking.

i'm with you on doing what's right from a charitable perspective, but it'll never get written into the CBA as that opens the league up to considerable liability it will never take on.

vipmark

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« #29 : February 01, 2007, 03:02:37 PM »

The problem is this....the league's doctors say that the former players in question are 100% disabled and deserve the benefits as per their agreement....then the league says...no, they are not 100% disabled....the league is over-riding their own medical experts
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