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Yeah, I'd put Grossman as the exception rather than Johnson. Johnson was actually one of the better quarterbacks in the league the year we won the Superbowl.And I don't think Manning really changes anything, per se. I think most teams know that teams that succeed with poor quarterback player are very much the exception rather than the rule.
I think the point is we didnt draft Johnson, we picked him up in free agency.
It doesnt take a QB 5 years anymore. These QBs are advanced by the time they reach the pros. Phillip Rivers, Vince YOung, Matt Leinart, Eli Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Jay Cutler, Drew Brees, Alex Smith. Theyve all had growing pains, but these guys have been very capable starters much earlier than it would take in the pastI dont think the QB position takes any longer than most other positionos to succeed in ealry in.
There are ways to win without taking 4-5 years and I think he knows that
Then Gruden needs to change his system
Great points StereoChemistry. I don't agree with the premise that Gruden's offense is somehow unique in the NFL in terms of players being able to run it effectively. I've heard variations on the Gannon comments for a bunch of offensive coaches in this league (Al Saunders and Reid come immediately to mind), and I think they are misconstrued. Gannon has talked about mastering the offense taking several years, but it's worth noting that Gannon improved immediately under Gruden (and they only had 3 years together). Here are his numbers with Gruden (and Callahan) - the yards per attempt were the same almost every year, but in 2002 he threw a lot more passes:'99: 59% complete, 3,8000 yards, 24 tds, 14 picks'00: 60% complete, 3,400 yards, 28 tds, 11 picks'01: 66% complete, 3,800 yards, 27 tds, 9 picks'02: 68% complete, 4,600 yards, 26 tds, 10 picks As you can see, while he clearly got more comfortable in the O as time went on (especially accuracy), it's not like he stunk the joint out early on. It's worth noting that Gannon wasn't a particularly accurate passer prior to getting together with Gruden. His best year in terms of accuracy (I used a minimum of 100 attempts) was 1994 at Minnesota, when he was a hair under 60%. I think Gannon is simply stating a pretty obvious point - Gruden's system is complex and it takes a bit to master. That makes it tough on rookies of course (but where is the system that isn't tough on rookies?), but it doesn't mean that a QB should stink for 4-5 years. I seem to recall that the Bull managed to pick it up quickly enough to win a Super Bowl in just 1 year, with I believe only limited previous experience with the WCO (Minnesota under Denny Green?). Let's not read more into the point than is there.