biffbeaumont

Great. 2 more years of stagnant offensive production, injury excuses and Jake Plummer overtures.

2:25pm, January 17, 2008

Lamond

This is a great move! The more you haters don't like it the better I do. If you don't like the direction of OUR team, pick another. You got 31 choices.

3:34pm, January 17, 2008

Horse

Sign both of them for four more years. Both have done well. Allen has been outstanding and has pulled us out of huge salary cap issues. I may be critical of Gruden at times pertaining to Leadership, but he is willing to learn and listen. Besides is there really anybody available that we can realistically get? I don't think so. Lets move on to an even better 2008 Season. Go Bucs!

4:15pm, January 17, 2008

Bucco B

I am for anything that pisses off Steve Duemig!

4:32pm, January 17, 2008

DLS5492

I agree with everybody above except biffeaumont. The haters remind me of Eagles fans. Like I said on my Valero comments, Gruden won the Bucs their first Super Bowl championship. Doesn't that give him the benefit of the doubt? It does me.

4:36pm, January 17, 2008

JFrank

DLS5492 - Does he get credit for the Super Bowl...Yeah mostly. But that was in 2002. This is 2008. Six seasons later. Can you say at all that we have progressed since then? People need to remember the Super Bowl but also, get out of it's shadow. That team is gone. There has been almost no progression from that year; 0-2 in the Playoffs since.

5:37pm, January 17, 2008

treybucs

To say there has been "no progression" since we won the Super Bowl is mind boggling to me. That is a Steve Duemig or Ian Beckles type comment. In order to determine progression, you need to do more than just look at the bottom line record since we won the Super Bowl. One should look at what they have achieved despite the absence of many star, impact players given the salary cap limitations we have endured. Its no secret that we have been in salary cap hell since at least 2004. Despite the salary cap limitations, Gruden and Allen managed to pick up free agents that were relatively unknown and draft players that have been able to contribute immediately. In 2005, we went 11-5 and secured a division title despite 3 rookies playing at key offensive positions and converted a mediocre defense in 2004 to the #1 overall defense in the league in 2005. One need not look any further than the Tribune and Times preseason article archives and recordings of the Big D__k and Beckles as to how most predicted us to do this year. Despite those predictions, we won a division title again with relatively few well known star players, had the #2 defense overall, and substantially improved our overall offensive ranking from the previous year. That is exactly what is so aggravating about listening to Duemig, which thankfully I do not do anymore. His favorite thing to say is, "what is Gruden's record" since he has been here." An idiot who knows nothing about football can look at a record and draw that conclusion. What Gruden and Allen have been able to achieve in two division titles and two home playoff games despite the limitations they have faced in securing big name free agents and getting surprising contributions out of players like Jovan Haye, Chris Hovan, Greg White, Earnest Graham, Donald Penn, Kevin Carter, Tanard Jackson, and Ike Hilliard means a lot more to me than the overall record since we won the Super Bowl and anyone would be remiss not to give them credit for their accomplishments. They both deserve a minimum of 3, deservingly 5 year extensions.

6:12pm, January 17, 2008

wiggum

Love your comment Lamond. Shows how immature you really are. Just because someone disagrees with your assement that Gruden is doing great we can go cheer for another team.

Maybe you should try to be adult about the issue and realize it's actually OK to have a different opinion. I guess you think fans of the Bucs show just be mindless lemmings with no personal opinion. Should make for a interesting message board where people only praise players and coaches and pat themselves on the back.

Grow up. I cheer for the Bucs not any particular coach or player. If you can't get the job done then you shouldn't be getting a lenghty contract extention. I'm not impressed with Gruden but I'd accept a 1-year extention. 2008 will be the year where Gruden has to prove he can get his offense going. It's gonna be tough because of the tougher schedule.

6:34pm, January 17, 2008

JFrank

treybucs

What is mind boggling to me is that people accept losing. Record is the MOST important statistic. You can have all the talent in the world and with poor coaching not have a .500 season. Talent alone does not win Super Bowls. What is the goal of EVERY season? To win the Super Bowl. You don't go into a season with the mentality of "Well I'll be happy with 10-6 this year". Take a look at what the Patriots are doing. They accept nothing less than perfection. Losing is NOT okay. Have we progressed personnel wise since the Super Bowl? Maybe. But how can we have progressed talent wise if we haven't gotten as far as the 2002 team. As for Big Dog and the papers: It is truly weakening in ANY debate to through personal attacks towards anybody. It only weakens your credibility. I listen to Big Dog and Ian Beckles. As well as every other outlet available. But I form my own opinion. Don't follow the consensus just because thats what they say. I am a college freshman in the Tampa area and I feel as qualified as any of those big market analysts because my opinion isn't any less than theirs. I rarely comment on any article because 5%, at most, of us have ever taken any kind of ethics or debate class and I find it quite moot.

10:17pm, January 17, 2008

JFrank

*through should be throw

10:18pm, January 17, 2008

schtoom

Um... J Frank, so you are taking an ethics/debate class and that makes you so overqualified/intelligent as a result that you often see no need in posting because you find it "moot." and this is because you believe that less than 5% of anyone here has ever taken such higher level education classes, thus making even the few minutes you spend typing a post a waste of your precious college-freshman time?

wake up kiddo. this is not the TBB or other numb-skull message board. people here have very informed opinions, and many of the debates i have read in the forums are well thought-out, nuanced debates that belie intellegence, skill, and much more practice and life experience than you can possibly have.

i personally find it quite absurd and insulting that you feel you can only engage with people that have ever taken an ethics or debate class. i find it interesting that you are spouting off about not throwing insults, yet you end your post with an incredibly arrogant sentiment. you have much growing up to do, young grasshopper. start with humility. you are a college freshman, you are not yet a man and have proven nothing aside from a baseline capacity to wade through our incredibly easy public education system. You are currently only equipped with a vague idea of what the world is. keep your mouth closed and your eyes open, cause the world's got teeth. and don't be a self-important, condescending jerk, it will greatly dilute your message, should you have one. it will also encourage people like me to start throwing out unsolicited advice in a manner that will embarrass you.

as to Gruden, you state that with all the talent in the world and poor coaching, you would not have a .500 season. i would counter that with none of the talent in the world and great coaching, you can have a better than .500 season. heck, you could even win a division and make the playoffs. you know, just like the bucs did this year.

ps. fyi, schtoom=high school debate team, undergraduate accounting major, graduate level classes in business ethics, MBA, executive at an international aid agency, and a Pewter Report subscriber. you know, the same board whose members are beneath your awesome intellect and debate 101 undergrad class that you took last semester.

4:32am, January 18, 2008

Lamond

Dear Wiggum:

Who cares what you think? Or me for that matter? The Glazers OWN the team and do what they believe is best for it. If you don't like that, so what? If I don't, so what? Somehow you suffer from the delusion that you know better than everyone else. You don't.

7:13am, January 18, 2008

Horse

LAMOND, I agree with you.

10:10am, January 18, 2008

wiggum

Well Lamond apparently you live under the assumption that your opinion matters more than mine since you called me a hater. That is a personal attack and it's uncalled for What qualifies me as a hater? That I don't like your hero? Again, grow up and learn to argue without turning to personal attacks.

I'm not delusional buddy. I'm stating my personal opinion, something I'm entitled to. Maybe you should look up the meaning of the word.

9:04am, January 19, 2008

Lamond

Scuuuuuuse me pal but you mentioned my name first. Secondly, I always applaud the team when they do something right. Your whining about how you don't like it aside, quit urinating in my Wheaties. You seem to be embracing your role as a "hater", so don't be upset. Like I said, 31 other flavors to choose from.

11:32am, January 19, 2008

Lamond

Scuuuuuuse me pal but you mentioned my name first. Secondly, I always applaud the team when they do something right. Your whining about how you don't like it aside, quit urinating in my Wheaties. You seem to be embracing your role as a "hater", so don't be upset. Like I said, 31 other flavors to choose from.

11:32am, January 19, 2008

jerdon

WOW! After all the above coments whats to say, this, if we don't
have Gruden who the hell would we get? I still cheer for the
Bucs, and still say there are no meanless games. Lets play
them all to win. Win is it, always.

3:45pm, January 19, 2008

djjustfrank

We should fire Gruden cause he got beat in the playoffs by a team going to the Super Bowl.

GG Tampa. Zero football knowledge 100% big mouths. This team doesn't need a coaching change they need a fan change.

You can name coaches without egos, and personality flaws, but you can also name those with that are very successful in the NFL. Gruden is a good coach, and him and his assistants coached up two talentless teams to Division victories in 2005, 2007.

I'm sure 99% of people in Tampa bay would love to have Andy Reid. Well 80% of Philly would love to fire him. The grass isn't always greener people.

10:37pm, January 20, 2008