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Bucs Fail To Steal Vilma From Saints |
 Tampa Bay missed out on big-hitting linebacker Jonathan Vilma (Getty Images) |
The Bucs were in pursuit of Saints LB Jonathan Vilma on Friday as free agency opened, but in the end, Vilma chose to remain in New Orleans. Tampa Bay was hoping Vilma could fill an OLB role vacated by Derrick Brooks and Cato June, who were cut Wednesday.
Tampa Bay has been in heavy pursuit of New Orleans linebacker Jonathan Vilma since free agency began at midnight and have battled the Saints tooth and nail for the 26-year old’s services. Unfortunately for Tampa Bay, Vilma opted to stay in New Orleans, making his decision just after 5:00 p.m. on Friday.
The Buccaneers had hoped to land three impact players on the first day of free agency in 2009. The team missed out on prized free agent defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth early Friday morning, finishing second in the bidding to Washington, who landed the mammoth 6-foot-6, 320-pound defender with a seven-year contract that totals $100 million, includes $41 million in guaranteed money and could be worth as much as $115 with incentives.
But Bucs general manager Mark Dominik rebounded in the afternoon, helping Tampa Bay’s offense by infusing some speed and playmaking ability at the tight end position with a trade for Cleveland’s Kellen Winslow II. The loss of Vilma, which was the second-most targeted player in Tama Bay this offseason, caps off a busy and somewhat disappointing and unproductive day at One Buccaneer Place for Dominik and new head coach Raheem Morris.
Vilma had a great year for the Saints in 2008 after coming over from a trade with the New York Jets, recording 132 tackles, according to NFL.com, along with two forced fumbles, one sack and one interception. Vilma has 465 tackles, 25 passes defensed, seven forced fumbles, seven interceptions and 3.5 sacks in his career.
The Bucs were courting him as an outside linebacker that would play next to middle linebacker Barrett Ruud.
Vilma has only missed nine games in his five-year NFL career, those coming during the 2007 season when he suffered a knee injury. Of the 71 games he’s played in, Vilma has started 69 of those contests.
The loss of Vilma, Michael Boley, who signed with the New York Giants, and Bart Scott, who is expected to sign with either the Jets or the Baltimore Ravens, leaves the free agent market for impact linebackers somewhat bare.
The release of Derrick Brooks and Cato June on Wednesday leaves Geno Hayes, Quincy Black, Adam Hayward, Matt McCoy, Rod Wilson and Jamall Johnson battling for the two vacant linebacker spots flanking Ruud.
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Bucs Express Interest In WR Henderson, Others
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Comments
Corey7713
I heard the Derrick Brooks is available, maybe we can make a run at him.
5:28pm, February 27, 2009
Bullies
Would love to know how hard we went after him! It looks like Man U will be paid off sooner rather than later!
5:29pm, February 27, 2009
sanders9759
GEE... wonder why nobody wants to come here? You want to pay a thug more and he still goes to the skins? Could be he heard who the coach may be in 2010. Then you are suspose to trade up in the draft not give up draft picks. Yes Man U is on it too. Fox 13 did a story on it last night. Also has to do with 44 mil and hedge fund and Debt floor. Get someone to check with Chip Carter @ Fox 13.
5:40pm, February 27, 2009
rayqw2
now i am getting pissed ....61 mill under the cap and all we have to show for it is K@ ...and that was by giving up a 2nd round pick ?
5:40pm, February 27, 2009
tpeluso
Time to go grovelling back to Brooks and see if he's willing to take the shameful way we treated him in stride, methinks.
5:41pm, February 27, 2009
bntwright
I have been a huge fan my entire life, but have to say this is becoming a complete JOKE. All the money we have and we pick up a trouble making tight end. Come on I think the Glazers must be feeling the heat of the recession, saving money on oaches and players. Really its a win win situation for them, they win and they look brilliant, they lose and oh well they saved a ton of money!!
5:46pm, February 27, 2009
JDouble
This sucks. Are we even trying to get Bart Scott? We aren't getting any of the top defensive guys that would actually help us.
What's up with Winslow? We make a block buster trade for a reciever and it's NOT Anquan Boldin?!!? @nd rounder and a 5th for this kid is freaking STUPID. I'm not saying he doesn't have talent, but c'mon!
I'm doing my best to stay positive ....but WTF is the plan guys? A very average back up QB in Luke McCown, cut all are LBs and don't replace them, miss out on Haynesworth, and then give up our second round pick? So far this looks like a total Cluster#$%@. I keep hearing that we want to be like the Stealers, Titans, and Ravens.......is it true or not?
This just sucks. Signing Bart Scott is the only way to save this FA period from being a total bust IMO.
What's up with Winslow? We make a block buster trade for a reciever and it's NOT Anquan Boldin?!!? @nd rounder and a 5th for this kid is freaking STUPID. I'm not saying he doesn't have talent, but c'mon!
I'm doing my best to stay positive ....but WTF is the plan guys? A very average back up QB in Luke McCown, cut all are LBs and don't replace them, miss out on Haynesworth, and then give up our second round pick? So far this looks like a total Cluster#$%@. I keep hearing that we want to be like the Stealers, Titans, and Ravens.......is it true or not?
This just sucks. Signing Bart Scott is the only way to save this FA period from being a total bust IMO.
5:48pm, February 27, 2009
JDouble
Scratch that. Bart Scott just signed with the Jets. We suck.
5:51pm, February 27, 2009
sanders9759
big splash? no..... THUD. WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND!!!!
5:56pm, February 27, 2009
bntwright
Surely they thought they had somebody sealed up at LB before they let Brooks and June go. I absolutely cannot believe what a freaking Joke this has become. Might have to become a Chiefs fan after 30+ years.
5:57pm, February 27, 2009
mohak10
We have not signed ONE Free Agent yet, it really seems as if the new GM lacks confidence or experience in negotiating contracts or getting a deal done with a prized free agent. Haynesworth, I wasn't really expecting us to get him. It is more disappointing as i have been led to believe that the Bucs had sincere interest in signing Vilma and we failed, despite having the cap room. It feels like I, as a fan of the Bucs, am always a loser. Brett Favre? We couldn't get him cuz we did not want to overcompensate. Haynesworth? Got outbid. Vilma? Failed to sign him, possibly outbid again. Overall, We suck at drafting and we aren't aggressive in getting players at positions of need that we're supposedly targeting. How do I, as a fan, get excited about the upcoming season without that many marquee players being on my team?
5:57pm, February 27, 2009
clownin01
The Saints reached agreement with free-agent linebacker Jonathan Vilma on a five-year, $34 million contract that includes $17 million guaranteed and $23 million in the first three years....That's it???? We couldnt come up with a better offer....I bet if Beckham wanted to go to Man U we would of gave him a deal that was outrageous....this is some crap..I dont get it
6:02pm, February 27, 2009
bntwright
J O K E !!!!!!!
6:07pm, February 27, 2009
Finerdetailz
I'm glad this new regime has a plan cause if they didn't I'd say were f***ed. If you didn't think people didn't want to come here when gruden was here they surely don't want to come here now. And counting winslow as an upgrade is a joke. Dominic hasn't a clue what he's doing and no one wants to come to a team with more holes than any other and what do these morons do cut the only leadership we had. The glazers better wake up quick cause this franchise is going in the toilet. If their behind it then the hell with them. Bring gruden back...now!!
6:08pm, February 27, 2009
JDouble
The worse part is we coulda easily resigned Jeremy Stevens, we already have Alex Smith and Ben Troupe. We DID NOT NEED to trade for a TE. If we were going to give up a 2nd round pick, how bout we trade for someone that fills a hole like a LB or DT? I'm trying to be patient and see the big picture.....but nothing makes sense.
6:08pm, February 27, 2009
Pewterdude
The timing of the announcement of cutting the team's most productive and model citizen without his knowledge (2 days before FA) and not allowing Brooks to retire with dignity like Mike Alstott did HAD to cast the new Bucs as classless and disloyal and this cold treatment of such classy individuals such as Brooks also had to weigh on the minds of Haynesworth and Vilma.
Also every article I read indicates a timid and non aggressive position of "no visits have been announced" with intended FA's is just plain inexcuseable and shows a lack of aggressiveness on the Buc's part and also in the past many FA's wanted to play for GRUDEN and they said so publicly because of his sheer love of the game and intensity, and the Bucs are underestimating how boring Raheem is compared to Gruden in terms of being an attractive coach to play for.
Besides, if you take away Gruden most cats would rather play in DC and New Orleans than Tampa anyway which is attractive because of it's lack of state income tax but is known to be a conservative military oriented city which I wouldn't want to play for over Washington or New Orleans which are known t o be fun towns especially for young black players.
Winslow move was good and his personality seems really balanced and likeable. Hope we didn't give up our 2nd round pick this year for him, but the Glazers handled the Brooks dismissal much like Jerry Jones did when he just dismissed the legendary head coach Tom Landry. Very classless and people sense it.
With no Gruden and without Kiffin running the Tampa 2 I really don't think too many players find Tampa as an interesting city or system to play in-nice facilities yes, but Gruden had the passion that most players have and that's missing now and it's been underestimated. Countless FA's have said it was the opportunity to play for Gruden that was the determining factor in wanting to come to Tampa.
The team is dragging their feet on Antonio Bryant's long term deal when they didn't even have to franchise him by just signing him to a secure long term deal and they're dragging their feet in FA with a huge amount of money.
How do you just cut players as involved in your community as Dunn and Brooks were and expect to be respected? There's a better way to part ways with players and even most businesses and politicians are allowed to retire to save face. This team is blowing it and it's beginning to stink...
Also every article I read indicates a timid and non aggressive position of "no visits have been announced" with intended FA's is just plain inexcuseable and shows a lack of aggressiveness on the Buc's part and also in the past many FA's wanted to play for GRUDEN and they said so publicly because of his sheer love of the game and intensity, and the Bucs are underestimating how boring Raheem is compared to Gruden in terms of being an attractive coach to play for.
Besides, if you take away Gruden most cats would rather play in DC and New Orleans than Tampa anyway which is attractive because of it's lack of state income tax but is known to be a conservative military oriented city which I wouldn't want to play for over Washington or New Orleans which are known t o be fun towns especially for young black players.
Winslow move was good and his personality seems really balanced and likeable. Hope we didn't give up our 2nd round pick this year for him, but the Glazers handled the Brooks dismissal much like Jerry Jones did when he just dismissed the legendary head coach Tom Landry. Very classless and people sense it.
With no Gruden and without Kiffin running the Tampa 2 I really don't think too many players find Tampa as an interesting city or system to play in-nice facilities yes, but Gruden had the passion that most players have and that's missing now and it's been underestimated. Countless FA's have said it was the opportunity to play for Gruden that was the determining factor in wanting to come to Tampa.
The team is dragging their feet on Antonio Bryant's long term deal when they didn't even have to franchise him by just signing him to a secure long term deal and they're dragging their feet in FA with a huge amount of money.
How do you just cut players as involved in your community as Dunn and Brooks were and expect to be respected? There's a better way to part ways with players and even most businesses and politicians are allowed to retire to save face. This team is blowing it and it's beginning to stink...
6:10pm, February 27, 2009
dulrich
What are we doing?? We are consistently losing out on players WE ARE targeting to make a "splash" eventhough we have the MORE MONEY than any team in the league! What does that say about how players and agents view Tampa and it's coaches/management? They are doing absolutely nothing to bring excitement and confidence to the fans. By the way, don't even try to give me that crap that we were only "somewhat" interested in these players! We all know that's bull. Let's call a spead a spead. We have the most money in the league and we are STILL LOSING out on players! What a joke!
6:18pm, February 27, 2009
Aquaman
Are Karlos Dansby and Channing Crowder still available......they're not terrible options
6:21pm, February 27, 2009
zosojp4468
You have got to be kidding me. I'm not ready to write this regime or this team off next year but, you have GOT to be kidding me. I'm not all that sad about losing Fat Albert. I'm not so sure shelling out $100 mil plus $41 mil in guarantees for a player who hasn't played a full season since '02 was wise, but then again, who has ever accused Dan Snyder of being wise with his pocketbook? But this is starting to get ridiculous. $60 million in cap space, and this team doesn't have one FA signing to show for it? Not Vilma? Not P-Buc? Not Flip? The only move they've made today was a trade, and PR is hearing murmurs that they're interested in trading for Michael Bush as well? Give me a break guys. I'm not saying this team needs to sign every free agent on the market, but they needed to come out swinging for the fences with at least one signing today. They missed horribly, and it's heartbreaking as a die hard fan who wants to see this team get better.
6:24pm, February 27, 2009
Finerdetailz
Well said peterdude.. I have friends calling me from different states and everyone of them can't believe the Bucs are doing nothing with the amount of money we have. Washington didn't have sh** after signing Hall but still landed the biggest name in fa. Someone explain that one. We should have at least an experienced gm but to have both coach and gm without experience is starting to show already. These pups are way over their head.
6:26pm, February 27, 2009
Finerdetailz
My bad I meant Pewterdude...
6:29pm, February 27, 2009
treybucs
Having been outbidded for Haynesworth and just letting Brooks go, I can't believe we would not do whatever was necessary to secure Vilma even if it meant overpaying for him. What were they trying to set up a visit for? It's not like you need to get to know the guy. He's proven himself. Just blow the Saints out of the water with an offer he couldn't refuse. With the thin market at linebacker and the type of player he is, he's the type of guy you could justify overpaying for. Missing out on him will cause the horrendous decision to release Brooks to perculate in an even sicker feeling over the course of the weekend. I can't wait.
6:32pm, February 27, 2009
JDouble
I honestly not sure if I can watch a whole season like the last four games of the 2008 season. Is Chris Canty still available? Not that he will be much help stopping the run. If we gave up this years 2nd round pick, we won't even be getting Ron Brace. I feel sorry for Ruud. He's gonna be standing in the middle like a target while RBs shoot right up the middle all year long.
I was hoping to come home toady and see all the great moves the Bucs made to improve the team....instead I read all this BS and it just ruined my Friday. Bummer.
I was hoping to come home toady and see all the great moves the Bucs made to improve the team....instead I read all this BS and it just ruined my Friday. Bummer.
6:37pm, February 27, 2009
Finerdetailz
God I miss Gruden. Next year is really going to be bad bad bad.. Glazers if you don't care please sell the team to someone who does. The rumors are starting to prove true. The cutting of all our leaders and best players are looking like a money issue. I can't believe the NFL doesn't step in or not allow owners to own multiple franchises. That's a major conflict of interest. So much for making a splash. We haven't even made a wave. Ridiculous.,
6:37pm, February 27, 2009
cblack_01
Really, this is the best that they could do? Disappointed doesn't even begin to describe how I feel.
6:38pm, February 27, 2009
JFS414
I like the Winslow trade. Gives us flexibility to trade Smith for either a LB or pick(s) and pick up a tight end in the draft. It seems that Dominik has a preset limit on how much he's willing to invest in each player and doesn't seem to want to extend beyond that when it comes down to it. I'm thinking that if you REALLY want a guy, you go above and beyond if necessary to get him. One guy (especially Vilma's contract) is not going to wreck your salary cap. I know we'll need to resign Rudd soon and I'm sure he's looking at what Vilma would have gotten, but still man. One thing you have to take into account though is the Bucs were asking Vilma to switch positions from inside to outside, and maybe that was part of the reason he chose to stay in NO to play in the middle.
6:45pm, February 27, 2009
Finerdetailz
And jdouble you are right.. Why take another chance on a character guy like winslow. Why not just resign Stevens. He
walked a straight line with us and I'm sure he would have stayed because the Bucs gave him a shot. Have we filled any holes yet?
Dominc??? Raheem???? What in the hell are u doing but coming in second on everyone. Not a good start..
walked a straight line with us and I'm sure he would have stayed because the Bucs gave him a shot. Have we filled any holes yet?
Dominc??? Raheem???? What in the hell are u doing but coming in second on everyone. Not a good start..
6:45pm, February 27, 2009
JDouble
I just can't get over the fact that we traded for Winslow. It's nothing against Winslow....he is a pretty talented guy and will likely be a major part of out offense.
What is killing me, is that we absolutely didn't need a TE. We do however need a real QB, a RB, at least one LB, and a DT. With a second round pick we could of traded for so many guys and filled a hole....instead we give up 2nd round pick for another guy with questionable charcter.moral issues, to beef up a position we are already solid at. WTH are they thinking?
What is killing me, is that we absolutely didn't need a TE. We do however need a real QB, a RB, at least one LB, and a DT. With a second round pick we could of traded for so many guys and filled a hole....instead we give up 2nd round pick for another guy with questionable charcter.moral issues, to beef up a position we are already solid at. WTH are they thinking?
6:58pm, February 27, 2009
JDouble
Also, if we give up more draft picks to get Michael Bush from Oakland we are even bigger idiots! Use our draft picks to get our own RB. We can get a RB in 3rd round that has every bit the potential of Michael Bush. Stop giving aour picks away! I hope the Winslow trade and any other trades include draft picks from THIS year. If the current staff crash and burn after one year, we don't need our next HC/GM trying to improve the team with no draft picks......the Glazers had to have learbe3d that by now.....right?
7:04pm, February 27, 2009
Dumb A$$es
Read your own posts and maybey you'd realize how stupid you sound. No one has any idea how much they offered Vilma now do you!! He could have turned down more money to stay with the Saints. Think about it morons. A team in flux like Tampa or a Team with the Number 1 offense in the NFL plus he stays at Mike. Did you ever think he didnt want to move outside to Will you IDIOTS!!!
7:07pm, February 27, 2009
JFS414
You can't compare Winslow and Stevens. Winslow brings a whole diffferent element to the offense and has pro bowl potential every season. I think we'll see the Bucs trade Alex Smith in the near future as well. His catches have declined every year since he's been here and he's now expendable. Not sure what he's worth on the market though.
7:07pm, February 27, 2009
Finerdetailz
I'm not saying winslow's not an upgrade but we have so many other needs on this team. I wasn't that excited about vilma either I was actually hoping that went after Scott. I think the splash after not getting haynesworth would have been to sign lewis and Scott to replace June and brooks (wishful thinking) . Now I think since we don't have a qb and the top receivers won't come here cause of that, they need to trade for cassel and sign either Washington or who's your momma .
7:23pm, February 27, 2009
LordJim
Hey Dumbetc., you know how you compensate for that? You offer more money. Way more money.
7:26pm, February 27, 2009
Finerdetailz
Adam Schefter needs to put down the crack pipe. He thinks the signing of Winslow jolts some excitement for the fans in Tampa Bay after cutting the players we cut. Please tell me we have a better plan than this, tell me our whole fa signing doesn't hang on a winslow trade. I can't believe it even garnered a press conference. Really..
7:33pm, February 27, 2009
drt1066
Where's the splash - in the Glazers' martinis? Or maybe it's some fine English Ale in Manchester. Their excuse is always "We didn't want to over pay ." In Haynesworth case considering his injury history that might be true. But in Vilma's case he was worth the cash. Now Boley is gone too.
The Bucs are just plain cheap (maybe the ghost of Hugh Culverhouse is walking the halls of One Buc PLace), or they don't have 65 million $'s to spend.
I sure hope the Bucs pull some splash rabbit out of the hat. I have already sold one of my tickets that go back to 1976. My friend sold BOTH of his.
The Bucs are just plain cheap (maybe the ghost of Hugh Culverhouse is walking the halls of One Buc PLace), or they don't have 65 million $'s to spend.
I sure hope the Bucs pull some splash rabbit out of the hat. I have already sold one of my tickets that go back to 1976. My friend sold BOTH of his.
8:00pm, February 27, 2009
JFS414
It's not the end of the world guys. We still have an opportunity to pick up a decent DT in Bernard, Cody, or Montgomery to rotate with Sims and Hovan. What's left of the LB's is a bit weaker though. Guess we'll get a chance to see what Hayes, Black and Hayward can do after all.
8:30pm, February 27, 2009
JFS414
And I can't see the Bucs going after TJ, even though I think he would make our team even better. If we're looking to have a physical running attack with occasional vertical shots downfield, it'd be hard to get enough touches for Bryant, TJ, and Winslow to keep them satisfied.
8:35pm, February 27, 2009
bucfan47
None of this bothers me about the Buccaneers thus far! Really. I totally expected the team to clean house and start the rebuilding process. Which is exactly what they're doing if you have not noticed.
The team was not that far away from being competitive but now they've taken MAJOR STEPS in the wrong direction. It's going to put some ENORMOUS pressure on them to hit on all of their draft picks, and the trade for Winslow and giving up our 2nd round pick was high, IMHO. Maybe not for some drafts, but this draft has some Super talent that will carry well into the 3rd round of this draft.
With needs at DT and DE, not to mention WR, LB, RB, QB, and the secondary, the last thing one needs is to give up draft picks. They did, so the picture of their strategy is starting to unfold.
IMO, there is now no question these guys are going to draft in the 1st round on the DLINE. I don't see any other positions even getting consideration.
The team was not that far away from being competitive but now they've taken MAJOR STEPS in the wrong direction. It's going to put some ENORMOUS pressure on them to hit on all of their draft picks, and the trade for Winslow and giving up our 2nd round pick was high, IMHO. Maybe not for some drafts, but this draft has some Super talent that will carry well into the 3rd round of this draft.
With needs at DT and DE, not to mention WR, LB, RB, QB, and the secondary, the last thing one needs is to give up draft picks. They did, so the picture of their strategy is starting to unfold.
IMO, there is now no question these guys are going to draft in the 1st round on the DLINE. I don't see any other positions even getting consideration.
9:03pm, February 27, 2009
bucfan47
There is a chance they gain some picks before the draft however. One guy that caught my eye that Tampa is interested in is T Khalif Barnes. Could the team be interested in acquiring him to possibly move Penn?
I'm very surprised the team hasn't made a move to sign Phillips or Buchanon. I actually think it's quite obvious now they probably WILL NOT sign either of them if they are successful in signing Jabari Greer, or some of the other players they have shown interest.
I'm very surprised the team hasn't made a move to sign Phillips or Buchanon. I actually think it's quite obvious now they probably WILL NOT sign either of them if they are successful in signing Jabari Greer, or some of the other players they have shown interest.
9:08pm, February 27, 2009
tomsan
Hey Scott:
Are the Glazers required to file annual financial statements with the NFL? If so, is any of the information publicly available? It seems increasingly reasonable to speculate that there is lots of cap space but not so much available cash.
As everyone knows, credit is hard to come by. If General Motors is having trouble, maybe the Glazers are too. Banks aren't lending anymore. Maybe the Glazers got caught up in the credit crisis. Maybe lots of money is also going to Manchester United at the expense of the Bucs. Maybe there is a combination of these things working at once.
My question to you, Scott, as a reporter, is what can you do to investigate, beyond getting some b.s. line from the front office? Is there any financial information out there you can get your hands on and analyze? Not just NFL information but also Manchester United documents that may be available.
Are the Glazers required to file annual financial statements with the NFL? If so, is any of the information publicly available? It seems increasingly reasonable to speculate that there is lots of cap space but not so much available cash.
As everyone knows, credit is hard to come by. If General Motors is having trouble, maybe the Glazers are too. Banks aren't lending anymore. Maybe the Glazers got caught up in the credit crisis. Maybe lots of money is also going to Manchester United at the expense of the Bucs. Maybe there is a combination of these things working at once.
My question to you, Scott, as a reporter, is what can you do to investigate, beyond getting some b.s. line from the front office? Is there any financial information out there you can get your hands on and analyze? Not just NFL information but also Manchester United documents that may be available.
9:09pm, February 27, 2009
bucfan47
Below could be the real truth regarding Vilma not signing with Tampa Bay.
Mike Triplett, of The New Orleans Times-Picayune, reports free-agent LB Jonathan Vilma (Saints) may not choose to sign with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers simply due to the fact that they do not have an opening at middle linebacker. When he left the New York Jets for the New Orleans Saints, Vilma made it clear he wants to play at middle linebacker in a 4-3 defense.
Mike Triplett, of The New Orleans Times-Picayune, reports free-agent LB Jonathan Vilma (Saints) may not choose to sign with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers simply due to the fact that they do not have an opening at middle linebacker. When he left the New York Jets for the New Orleans Saints, Vilma made it clear he wants to play at middle linebacker in a 4-3 defense.
9:16pm, February 27, 2009
Pewterdude
Dumb A$$,
You condescending A$$. How convenient to put down an entire board just by commenting on only ONE of the Bucs stupid moves that they've made this offseason.
Where's your take on how classless it was for Derrick Brooks to hear he was cut on the freaking RADIO. YOU are the MORON and you'd climb down off of Joel Glazer's JOCK then you'd have a better vision of the stupidity of Dominick's moves.
Where's your take on the Bucs announcing "their interested in a particular FA" but " no visit is scheduled?" How fake is THAT.
How about giving up a 2nd rounder THIS year for an albeit upgrade but at a position we are not weak at?
How about this team not having ANYTHING NEAR a bonafide NFL starting QB? Yeah, that's really attractive.....
How about Jon Gruden who was the driving force behind several FA's admiting he was the reason for so much interest in Tampa Bay? How about Bruce Allen inheriting a team $20 million OVER the cap and getting fired after putting the team $60 million UNDER the cap, with a long overdue rebuilt OL, good youth in the DB, a franchise RB who had the misfortune of being injury prone as well as a first round WR who routinely dropped passes after a brilliant rookie season that couldn't have been foreseen (along with his injuries).?
YOU need to read your pathetic one dimensional rant and get your head out of Dominic's A$$ and deal with ALL the issues you condescending, know-it-all, Mgt brown noser...
You condescending A$$. How convenient to put down an entire board just by commenting on only ONE of the Bucs stupid moves that they've made this offseason.
Where's your take on how classless it was for Derrick Brooks to hear he was cut on the freaking RADIO. YOU are the MORON and you'd climb down off of Joel Glazer's JOCK then you'd have a better vision of the stupidity of Dominick's moves.
Where's your take on the Bucs announcing "their interested in a particular FA" but " no visit is scheduled?" How fake is THAT.
How about giving up a 2nd rounder THIS year for an albeit upgrade but at a position we are not weak at?
How about this team not having ANYTHING NEAR a bonafide NFL starting QB? Yeah, that's really attractive.....
How about Jon Gruden who was the driving force behind several FA's admiting he was the reason for so much interest in Tampa Bay? How about Bruce Allen inheriting a team $20 million OVER the cap and getting fired after putting the team $60 million UNDER the cap, with a long overdue rebuilt OL, good youth in the DB, a franchise RB who had the misfortune of being injury prone as well as a first round WR who routinely dropped passes after a brilliant rookie season that couldn't have been foreseen (along with his injuries).?
YOU need to read your pathetic one dimensional rant and get your head out of Dominic's A$$ and deal with ALL the issues you condescending, know-it-all, Mgt brown noser...
9:29pm, February 27, 2009
charbeth2
Was Tight end on anyone's list of needs? Of course not. Haynesworth, Vilma.. gone. This new regime is worse than the one we just jettisoned. Bah Humbug.
9:34pm, February 27, 2009
sanders9759
This is getting better all the time. MR 3rd DOWN is talking to the Falcons and Panthers. I know he was only good for just about EVERY 3rd down we ever needed but WTH let dump him too. Hope he gets a team that deserves him, in the NFC South.
9:45pm, February 27, 2009
clairvoyantent1
I think it's very apparent how important it is to have a "name" coach when it comes to free agents. I have two points to make.
1. Nothing hurt the Bucs chances at free agents this year more than the total lack of communication skills both Morris and Dominick displayed at the press conference on Wednesday. They sounded completely overwhelmed, unconfident, and to be honest - unintelligent. How they are behind closed doors doesn't matter - what the whole world (and free agents saw) was them fumble in an interview after cutting a franchise icon.
2. Gruden and Kiffin were the main draw for free agents coming to Tampa Bay. Money talks? Uhhh.... not today. The bucs bid higher for both Haynesworth and Vilma. No free agent who hasn't met Raheem Morris is excited to come play for him. That may change in the near future - but right now his youth is a handicap.
Having said that - there's no reason to completely give up on this team. Washington does this EVERY year - and every year it doesn't pay off for them. Trading for winslow is a tremendous addition to the vertical passing game. He's essentially the number 2 wide receiver on the field.
This team hedged its bet that free agents would flock to the money. They jumped the gun in decimating their linebacking core. Never give up what you have until you're certain you have something better to replace it with.
1. Nothing hurt the Bucs chances at free agents this year more than the total lack of communication skills both Morris and Dominick displayed at the press conference on Wednesday. They sounded completely overwhelmed, unconfident, and to be honest - unintelligent. How they are behind closed doors doesn't matter - what the whole world (and free agents saw) was them fumble in an interview after cutting a franchise icon.
2. Gruden and Kiffin were the main draw for free agents coming to Tampa Bay. Money talks? Uhhh.... not today. The bucs bid higher for both Haynesworth and Vilma. No free agent who hasn't met Raheem Morris is excited to come play for him. That may change in the near future - but right now his youth is a handicap.
Having said that - there's no reason to completely give up on this team. Washington does this EVERY year - and every year it doesn't pay off for them. Trading for winslow is a tremendous addition to the vertical passing game. He's essentially the number 2 wide receiver on the field.
This team hedged its bet that free agents would flock to the money. They jumped the gun in decimating their linebacking core. Never give up what you have until you're certain you have something better to replace it with.
9:45pm, February 27, 2009
Pewterdude
Bucfan 47,
Why didn't our scouts know that Vilma was so adament about playing only the mike instead of assuming that he'd move over to will spot left by Brooks? They're paid to know player's histories, preferences, tendancies and which players are averse to switching positions.
You did your research....howcome our mgt didn't and then make a grand announcement knowing we have Ruud who NOone is gonna replace? Thanks for the insight
Why didn't our scouts know that Vilma was so adament about playing only the mike instead of assuming that he'd move over to will spot left by Brooks? They're paid to know player's histories, preferences, tendancies and which players are averse to switching positions.
You did your research....howcome our mgt didn't and then make a grand announcement knowing we have Ruud who NOone is gonna replace? Thanks for the insight
9:52pm, February 27, 2009
Pewterdude
Bucfan 47,
Why didn't our scouts know that Vilma was so adament about playing only the mike instead of assuming that he'd move over to will spot left by Brooks? They're paid to know player's histories, preferences, tendancies and which players are averse to switching positions.
You did your research....howcome our mgt didn't and then make a grand announcement knowing we have Ruud who NOone is gonna replace? Thanks for the insight
Why didn't our scouts know that Vilma was so adament about playing only the mike instead of assuming that he'd move over to will spot left by Brooks? They're paid to know player's histories, preferences, tendancies and which players are averse to switching positions.
You did your research....howcome our mgt didn't and then make a grand announcement knowing we have Ruud who NOone is gonna replace? Thanks for the insight
9:52pm, February 27, 2009
JFS414
Pewterdude, any agent worth his weight will say whatever he needs to say to other teams to get them involved in a bidding war. For all we know Vilma's team may have said he'd be open to moving to Will to make sure he had immediate options to bid against NO. No telling what goes on in the negotiations that we all have no clue about.
As far as Gruden, I will give him credit for having the ability to talk a guy into coming to the Bucs, but it only took a short time for them to realize how fake the guy really is. The more I watch him on TV, the more I see what people are talking about. He could definitely get into the car sales business when he's done with coaching. I'll take a young, straightforward coach any day of the week.
Anybody else think Dominik's at home with a stiff drink right about now?
As far as Gruden, I will give him credit for having the ability to talk a guy into coming to the Bucs, but it only took a short time for them to realize how fake the guy really is. The more I watch him on TV, the more I see what people are talking about. He could definitely get into the car sales business when he's done with coaching. I'll take a young, straightforward coach any day of the week.
Anybody else think Dominik's at home with a stiff drink right about now?
10:03pm, February 27, 2009
Pewterdude
Is anyone else concerned that Buchanon and Barber don't have the size for tight man bump and run coverage? Both got outjumped for several passes last year when running step for step with receivers. I know Buchanon played it at the OAK and the U but he doesn't seem to have the ups^ to leap with the Calvin Johnson's, Colston, Plax, Fitzgeralds and the many verticle WR's in the leage. Talib I'm not worried about but we've got a zone starting CB and a converted press guy (Buchanon).
10:04pm, February 27, 2009
tomsan
I agree w/ every point you make clairvoyantent1. I would only modify to say that although there's a ton of cap space, I'm not sure how much real money the Bucs actually have for free agents.
When making any decision, you have to compare it to the alternative. Fire Gruden, but replace him with what? Cut Brooks, replace him with what? If the answer is "new direction and youth," well, those are just words that sound nice. You need specific coaches and real players. The "new direction" so far is clearly backwards and the "youth" movement is turning out to be rookies from the draft (assuming we don't give up all our picks trading for tight ends).
When making any decision, you have to compare it to the alternative. Fire Gruden, but replace him with what? Cut Brooks, replace him with what? If the answer is "new direction and youth," well, those are just words that sound nice. You need specific coaches and real players. The "new direction" so far is clearly backwards and the "youth" movement is turning out to be rookies from the draft (assuming we don't give up all our picks trading for tight ends).
10:08pm, February 27, 2009
clairvoyantent1
Pewterdude,
Barber slides to the nickel spot this year and mostly covers the slot receiver - his size shouldn't be a factor. the problem is - I'm not sure Pbuc resigns with the team. Who's better than he is on the open market right now? who would you replace Pbuc with as the second corner opposite talib?
Barber slides to the nickel spot this year and mostly covers the slot receiver - his size shouldn't be a factor. the problem is - I'm not sure Pbuc resigns with the team. Who's better than he is on the open market right now? who would you replace Pbuc with as the second corner opposite talib?
10:13pm, February 27, 2009
clairvoyantent1
tomsan,
Great point. Slogans and words don't win football games.
I will say that I really like the Winslow move. If the Bucs can land either Washington or D. Henderson and find a second RB to package with Graham, ten we might finally have an electric offense in Tampa Bay.
The defense on the other hand.... I realize it is still early, but at this point the bucs have lost 4 starters (Brooks, June, Haye, and Phillips) and replaced them with... nobody. I will keep the faith, but hopefully "the plan" calls for more than just promoting bench players to starting positions. And if that is "the plan" - who backs those guys up?
Yes - the youth movement worked for the Rays, but it took ten years of top 5 draft picks to do so.
Great point. Slogans and words don't win football games.
I will say that I really like the Winslow move. If the Bucs can land either Washington or D. Henderson and find a second RB to package with Graham, ten we might finally have an electric offense in Tampa Bay.
The defense on the other hand.... I realize it is still early, but at this point the bucs have lost 4 starters (Brooks, June, Haye, and Phillips) and replaced them with... nobody. I will keep the faith, but hopefully "the plan" calls for more than just promoting bench players to starting positions. And if that is "the plan" - who backs those guys up?
Yes - the youth movement worked for the Rays, but it took ten years of top 5 draft picks to do so.
10:21pm, February 27, 2009
JFS414
Washington, Henderson would be nice additions, I also like McDonald. From what I've read Kelly Campbell (a recent pickup) has speed to burn as well. Has anyone heard this rumor running around of the Bucs looking at a trade for Cassel for supposedly a 1st and 2nd (years TBD)?
10:32pm, February 27, 2009
tomsan
Hey, maybe if the Glazers are running out of money, the U.S. government can take over the Bucs. That would truly make us "America's Team!"
10:41pm, February 27, 2009
sanders9759
This was all done to save for the draft. They want money to pay for all the players they draft. which they can do cheeper. They will all be starters and play like Matt Ryan. I put this in as a plan because they sure don't have one.
10:52pm, February 27, 2009
sanders9759
JFS414 ABC 28 says rumor is 1st round this year and a 4yr deal. Who knows??
11:36pm, February 27, 2009
tomsan
I betcha trading higher rounds saves cash. For example - trade a first round pick for player x vs. paying a first rounder saves cash. It only makes sense because the pick has to have quite a bit of cash value.
I'm getting kind of a sick feeling.....
I'm getting kind of a sick feeling.....
11:42pm, February 27, 2009
bucfan47
Guys,
IMO I would not panic that the Buccaneers have not made any free agent moves at this point. It's not the end of the world.
There are some guys I'm sure have been contacted, contracts discussed, and most free agents are collecting offers and discussing those with family, and it's very normal for it to take time. There are some quick signings, always are, but just because we have not made any moves is nothing of concern to me.
One must question the direction of this "Youth Movement" and wonder why so many players were cut. To me, with a healthy Graham, Warrick Dunn still had some mileage left in the tank. They obviously thought otherwise.
The other moves I really had no problem with, except Brooks. There would have been absolutely nothing wrong with having a conversation with Brooks about his role and the direction of the team. At the very minimum, asking him to take a paycutt would have been the right thing to do, not let him go, regardless of the fact you've heard from PR and others that it's a business.
Yes, it's a business. But Derrick Brooks has been a staple of this franchise for 14 years. It's impossible to exclude his name from the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and it was not a class move to just let him go.
These new guys are very inexperienced, and usually inexperience hurts the organization in two ways. 1). They usually overpay for players. Up until this point, we've not done that, so that is a good thing, despite not getting Haynesworth or Vilma. 2). They have trouble getting credibility from other free agents. They simply don't know Dominik and Morris like they would have known Gruden and Allen. The track record is not there at this point, which equates to a risk, one some players aren't willing to take.
Free agency does not win championships. The Buccaneers IMO are forced to make moves this because of all the cuts, which WILL PROBABLY force them into situations where they will now over-pay for players to come here. Look for that to happen in the coming days/weeks.
The Bucs still have major holes to fill and at this point, everyone has a right to wonder ALOUD, what's going on?
I'm not sure, but I'm looking for these guys to start signing players in the coming days.
Jabari Greer CB, would make an excellent addition to our football team that not many people have heard of. He's physical, coming from the SEC (Tennessee), and had a solid season last year in Buffalo..Many people may say no way, but he would make a better impact IMO than resigning P-Buc.
Phillips needs to be resigned, even if it means overpaying for him. Yes, he's had injuries, but chemistry is what this team is going to need with SO MANY roster moves coming.
The team is for sure SET to struggles next season due to the chance in philisophy and most importantly, chemistry.
Even with great QB play, I don't see anyway these guys win more than 6 games at this point. You can't gain chemistry immediately, and both sides of the ball will have alot of NEW, KEY players thrown into the spotlight, some for the very first time.
It's going to be very difficult to watch.
IMO I would not panic that the Buccaneers have not made any free agent moves at this point. It's not the end of the world.
There are some guys I'm sure have been contacted, contracts discussed, and most free agents are collecting offers and discussing those with family, and it's very normal for it to take time. There are some quick signings, always are, but just because we have not made any moves is nothing of concern to me.
One must question the direction of this "Youth Movement" and wonder why so many players were cut. To me, with a healthy Graham, Warrick Dunn still had some mileage left in the tank. They obviously thought otherwise.
The other moves I really had no problem with, except Brooks. There would have been absolutely nothing wrong with having a conversation with Brooks about his role and the direction of the team. At the very minimum, asking him to take a paycutt would have been the right thing to do, not let him go, regardless of the fact you've heard from PR and others that it's a business.
Yes, it's a business. But Derrick Brooks has been a staple of this franchise for 14 years. It's impossible to exclude his name from the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and it was not a class move to just let him go.
These new guys are very inexperienced, and usually inexperience hurts the organization in two ways. 1). They usually overpay for players. Up until this point, we've not done that, so that is a good thing, despite not getting Haynesworth or Vilma. 2). They have trouble getting credibility from other free agents. They simply don't know Dominik and Morris like they would have known Gruden and Allen. The track record is not there at this point, which equates to a risk, one some players aren't willing to take.
Free agency does not win championships. The Buccaneers IMO are forced to make moves this because of all the cuts, which WILL PROBABLY force them into situations where they will now over-pay for players to come here. Look for that to happen in the coming days/weeks.
The Bucs still have major holes to fill and at this point, everyone has a right to wonder ALOUD, what's going on?
I'm not sure, but I'm looking for these guys to start signing players in the coming days.
Jabari Greer CB, would make an excellent addition to our football team that not many people have heard of. He's physical, coming from the SEC (Tennessee), and had a solid season last year in Buffalo..Many people may say no way, but he would make a better impact IMO than resigning P-Buc.
Phillips needs to be resigned, even if it means overpaying for him. Yes, he's had injuries, but chemistry is what this team is going to need with SO MANY roster moves coming.
The team is for sure SET to struggles next season due to the chance in philisophy and most importantly, chemistry.
Even with great QB play, I don't see anyway these guys win more than 6 games at this point. You can't gain chemistry immediately, and both sides of the ball will have alot of NEW, KEY players thrown into the spotlight, some for the very first time.
It's going to be very difficult to watch.
11:50pm, February 27, 2009
termig8r
SWING AND A MISS, STRIKE TWO!
Considering the money the Bucs have available today has to be considered a negative. Winslow was a nice pick up & may help the passing game, but did it really address a need (there are so many)?
The Bucs have 9 needs. A low priority one was solved today with TE. At most the Bucs could address 4 in the draft (that would be extremely optimistic - 2 is more realistic). Lets say two others are tabled to next year (QB & LB?). That means the Bucs need to sign 2-4 FA's min to immediate needs.
There are other LB's available - but it won't be the impact type's hoped for. I'm sure the Bucs believe they have a starting cast - they may now go for depth at LB - as in K Burnett & A Davis.
My Most Wanted (still on the board):
1. Antonio Smith or Canty
2. Nate Washington
3. Rocky Bernard or Tank Johnson
4. McFadden or PBuc
5. McGowan
6. Henderson
One disturbing commentary today on ESPN is that TB has no QB. They even said the Bucs only have a back up QB. True or not, is such a stigma going to keep offensive players (especially receivers) from signing? Winslow was acquired via trade. Would addressing QB now - help to acquire others?
Big names left on the board (no matter age) aka "ticket sellers": Ray Lewis, Kurt Warner, Matt Cassel, Marvin Harrison, Housmandzadeh (?), Derrick Brooks.
CB available? Reports are that Philly is looking to trade Lito Sheppard for a 5th rd pick this year & a conditional next.
How many owners, GM's & HC's would love to have the cap money TB has this year? The pressure is increasing for Morris/Dominick - they better choke up on the bat for this next pitch...
Considering the money the Bucs have available today has to be considered a negative. Winslow was a nice pick up & may help the passing game, but did it really address a need (there are so many)?
The Bucs have 9 needs. A low priority one was solved today with TE. At most the Bucs could address 4 in the draft (that would be extremely optimistic - 2 is more realistic). Lets say two others are tabled to next year (QB & LB?). That means the Bucs need to sign 2-4 FA's min to immediate needs.
There are other LB's available - but it won't be the impact type's hoped for. I'm sure the Bucs believe they have a starting cast - they may now go for depth at LB - as in K Burnett & A Davis.
My Most Wanted (still on the board):
1. Antonio Smith or Canty
2. Nate Washington
3. Rocky Bernard or Tank Johnson
4. McFadden or PBuc
5. McGowan
6. Henderson
One disturbing commentary today on ESPN is that TB has no QB. They even said the Bucs only have a back up QB. True or not, is such a stigma going to keep offensive players (especially receivers) from signing? Winslow was acquired via trade. Would addressing QB now - help to acquire others?
Big names left on the board (no matter age) aka "ticket sellers": Ray Lewis, Kurt Warner, Matt Cassel, Marvin Harrison, Housmandzadeh (?), Derrick Brooks.
CB available? Reports are that Philly is looking to trade Lito Sheppard for a 5th rd pick this year & a conditional next.
How many owners, GM's & HC's would love to have the cap money TB has this year? The pressure is increasing for Morris/Dominick - they better choke up on the bat for this next pitch...
12:00am, February 28, 2009
Pewterdude
Has Patrick Surtain of the Chiefs been signed? He was just released from KC a week or so ago. He played with DC Jim Bates in Miami with the Dolphins from '02-'04. He's 32 and has good size just under 6ft/200lbs.
I've always preferred a veteran presense in the secondary especially at the FS position to give better support in pass coverage and tackling angles to younger corners and if a team drafts a rookie corner, sometimes they can get away with a early thirty year old corner to groom the rookie if the older corner is athletic enough and hasn't busted his knees up. Experience is crucial for any DB especially in the playoffs cause most QB's will single out the DB without much experience and especially take him to school in the playoffs.
Jabari Greer of Buffalo is an UFA and is only 26 but injured his knee this past season and lost his job to Leodis McKelvin, so he'd have to recover but could be a consideration
12:01am, February 28, 2009
clairvoyantent1
I like Greer from Buffalo as well as the corner from Pittsburgh - but I'd still argue PBuc is better and has a higher ceiling than both. The problem the Bucs now face is that a lot of the best players available at certain positions are players from last year's team (Phillips at safety, Pbuc at corner, Brooks and June at LB).
It seems their best bet would be to complete the offensive side of the ball via free agency with another wr (d. henderson or nate washington), a second RB ala Ward, Jones, or Bush and a qb to compete with McCown - and then focus the draft on finding players that fit their defensive profiles.
Even if they land a guy like DE smith from arizona - I'd say the odds shot up to about 99% that d-line is the Bucs round 1 pick.
It seems their best bet would be to complete the offensive side of the ball via free agency with another wr (d. henderson or nate washington), a second RB ala Ward, Jones, or Bush and a qb to compete with McCown - and then focus the draft on finding players that fit their defensive profiles.
Even if they land a guy like DE smith from arizona - I'd say the odds shot up to about 99% that d-line is the Bucs round 1 pick.
12:23am, February 28, 2009
JFS414
Bush would be an intriguing RB. We all saw what he was capable of doing when given a shot. He came in as a 4th round back, would be curious to know what the Raiders are asking for him. Alex Smith is a spare part now, and if the Bucs were to pick up an OT like Barnes they may be willing to move Penn as well. Wouldn't be suprised to see another trade or 3 in the next week or so. As we can see from the boards on various sites, it's obviously a very tense time for a lot of folks. I wouldn't be so quick to write next year as a 6 win season though. Lert's see how everything washes out between now and April 27th.
12:43am, February 28, 2009
tomsan
"The bucs bid higher for both Haynesworth and Vilma. " clairvoyantent1 - Where did you get that information and what were the respective numbers Redskins and Saints?
1:59am, February 28, 2009
cremdonado
Not only did the Bucs fail to land vilma,they have failed in free agency thus far.No one wants to play in Tampon Bay,I think its time the Glazers think about selling the team into a market which is a draw for players..The sun,weather,no sales tax-none of it seems to draw anyone to the team..The Bucs still have 65 mil in cap space,but now are short draft picks thanks to the winslow deal.The Bucs will always be a second to third tier team as long as they remain in Tampa...This team has no draw for players and will wither without it..Lets face it-no one wants to play in Tampa...Watch-we will resign Brooks in a week,to show how bad this team blows...Im bummed to be a fan of this team...
3:11am, February 28, 2009
cremdonado
Fuck this team !!! we gave up our second round pick this year and a 5th next year for a lump of crap !We have SOOOOO many needs and we go TE ? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME ?!?!
Fuck the Glazers and their shit running of this team..I hope no one renews their season tickets and the Glazers are forced to sell this team to people and a market that know how to build a team..This franchise will be so devalued by the end of this season.Get ready for the move to Los Angeles...
The Suckaneers blew it yet again...
Fuck the Glazers and their shit running of this team..I hope no one renews their season tickets and the Glazers are forced to sell this team to people and a market that know how to build a team..This franchise will be so devalued by the end of this season.Get ready for the move to Los Angeles...
The Suckaneers blew it yet again...
3:25am, February 28, 2009
scubog
It's only been one day guys, calm down.
I've never been a big fan of trying to build a team through free agency and paying outrageous salaries to players that ultimately do little to justify it. The Bucs have gotten better production per dollar spent in the past and hopefully will continue that trend. I think we all look at this pile of money and think we must spend it on some "splash" player(s) and think we have somehow failed if we don't. But when I look at the list of available players, I just don't see much. If you go out to buy a car but there's nothing on the lot that's worth it; why drive home with something?
We could certainly have used Haynesworth but $100 million to Big Al may really come back to haunt the Redskins if he fails to live up to the expectations. The concerns many of us had are valid. Is it wise to invest so much in just one player when the biggest impact he might make on Redskin Nation will be today and the headline in the Washington Post?
Bucfan47 is right about Vilma being a middle linebacker. I don't know why we would even be targeting him. Sometimes I think the agents invent the interest of another team to drive up the value of their client.
I know I wrote before that every year the media identifies players the Bucs should target as free agents and draft choices. Then when they aren't signed/drafted the fans are disappointed, angry and frustrated. But if they sign their own free agents who are as good or better than other team's, it's "ho hum".
It's a long off-season; lets wait to judge at the end of it in July not after day one. A winner isn't declared if they run back the opening kick-off and you don't lose by fumbling the first snap.
I've never been a big fan of trying to build a team through free agency and paying outrageous salaries to players that ultimately do little to justify it. The Bucs have gotten better production per dollar spent in the past and hopefully will continue that trend. I think we all look at this pile of money and think we must spend it on some "splash" player(s) and think we have somehow failed if we don't. But when I look at the list of available players, I just don't see much. If you go out to buy a car but there's nothing on the lot that's worth it; why drive home with something?
We could certainly have used Haynesworth but $100 million to Big Al may really come back to haunt the Redskins if he fails to live up to the expectations. The concerns many of us had are valid. Is it wise to invest so much in just one player when the biggest impact he might make on Redskin Nation will be today and the headline in the Washington Post?
Bucfan47 is right about Vilma being a middle linebacker. I don't know why we would even be targeting him. Sometimes I think the agents invent the interest of another team to drive up the value of their client.
I know I wrote before that every year the media identifies players the Bucs should target as free agents and draft choices. Then when they aren't signed/drafted the fans are disappointed, angry and frustrated. But if they sign their own free agents who are as good or better than other team's, it's "ho hum".
It's a long off-season; lets wait to judge at the end of it in July not after day one. A winner isn't declared if they run back the opening kick-off and you don't lose by fumbling the first snap.
6:07am, February 28, 2009
martinii
Wow the testerone is flowing tonight. Lets see we have several geniuses that want the Glazers to sell and move the team. I hope they move out of town also if the get their wish. I happen to enjoy having a Pro football team in Tampa. As for Haynesworth and Villma, there are several reasons we lost them. One was not for trying. It appears guaranteed money and cap space are two different animals. I agree we have not made a splash yet but Vilma and Haynesworth are not the only means of measuring a successful offseason. In the days to come we will see solid common sense deals materialize. You guys quit and run the minute things don't go exactly as you want. Your not fans, you are egomaniacs who consistently love to bitch. You are the problem. Your opinion like mine is not worth a nickle. So please sell your tickets and forget about football. Yeah the Bucs face several new challenges. I for one agree with the recent changes. Hard decisions especially regarding Brooks. Great player Great Man. Some of you morons need to listen to his message. Things will change.
There is a rebuilding process at work and its leaning toward youth. That's a fact. Next year may be rough, that's a given, and yes some FA's may not want to rush to Tampa this year. There are challenges. But all this turmoil is a 1000 times better than no Football. I am fully confident that the new coaches are doing the best they can to rebuild the team. I am not an expert, I can wait and see, I am a FAN. Go Bucs
There is a rebuilding process at work and its leaning toward youth. That's a fact. Next year may be rough, that's a given, and yes some FA's may not want to rush to Tampa this year. There are challenges. But all this turmoil is a 1000 times better than no Football. I am fully confident that the new coaches are doing the best they can to rebuild the team. I am not an expert, I can wait and see, I am a FAN. Go Bucs
6:19am, February 28, 2009
poorlittlepinkus
Come this season when I turn on the TV to watch a Buc's game why do I feel I'll be seeing Billy Mays hawking his wares.
BLACKOUT!
BLACKOUT!
8:14am, February 28, 2009
DLS5492
Geezzzz! Take a deep breath for crying out loud! Look at the big $ the Rdeskins have dumped into big name free agents the last eight years. How has it worked out for them? These are the same clowns that gave D. Hall $54 million. The Bucs have a plan, which means they have a back up plans, also. The Bucs will be fine. Wisdom will take you a lot further than throwing money at the problem. Look at our stupid federal government. All they do is throw money at problems. How has it worked out for them? It's not the end of the world and I am glad Coach Morris and Domink are there. By the way, I think their commincation skills are fine. Ask Kellen Winslow II.
8:31am, February 28, 2009
cremdonado
Im just pissed we gave up our second round pick for a TE,which was near the bottom of our needs list..I think we lost a huge piece of draft day leverage for a guy with character issues.The talent level in this years draft will have a serious drop off between our first round pick and by the time we select in the 3rd..I wish we would have used cap space instead of our much needed picks-especially for a guy who has been problematic during his time in the league..It seems like a high price to pay for a guy with injury issues and no solid track record in the NFL.The Bucs want to trade MORE draft picks for Bush,yet another guy with bad knees !!Havent they learned their lesson with Caddy?Just because Bush put it on our defense(that wasnt even playing that game),we are willing to give the farm for him..I just dont get it...Im glad HaynesNOTworthIT went to the Deadskins-every year they pay thru the nose for player,and every season the crumble...We should have used the second round pick in April-not during the first day of free agency...The Bucs better pull a serious rabbit out of their hat,and bring some news to get fans back into the team-I think they missed the mark on this one...
9:14am, February 28, 2009
cremdonado
Much as people say the Lions were the Bucs of the north -The Bucs are now the Browns of the south ! McCown,Bryant,Faine and now Kellen...I wonder if we give up more picks for Braylon Edwards....
Way to go Pewter and Browns....
Way to go Pewter and Browns....
9:21am, February 28, 2009
bucfan47
Well, alot of you were calling for this move to be done and everyone was onboard for the firing of Gruden I do believe....
It should not have been too difficult to foresee what was about to happen with his dismissal. That's why I was so passionate about the move, and everyone pounded me for days. Now you are beginning to see my point.
The team is going in a totally new direction, regardless of whether you or me like it. They feel it was necessary to get the team back in contention for titles. That's the owners decision and they can do what they want.
It should not have been too difficult to foresee what was about to happen with his dismissal. That's why I was so passionate about the move, and everyone pounded me for days. Now you are beginning to see my point.
The team is going in a totally new direction, regardless of whether you or me like it. They feel it was necessary to get the team back in contention for titles. That's the owners decision and they can do what they want.
9:43am, February 28, 2009
JFS414
Nad, if you check around the web you'll see most outlets consider Winslow to be one of the top 5 TE's in football. I think a change of scenery will do him well. I also think Dominik REALIZED he had two tight ends on the roster before he made this trade, so saying this is the least of our needs is a bit short sighted. If you don't think we've needed better tight end play the last few years, you haven't been watching the games. I'm sure Jagz noticed he could use an upgrade at TE when he reviewed the film. Winslow has the ability to line up at a variety of positions as well, not just at TE. The best comment I've read was where a AFC North front office guy/GM simply said "I'm glad he's out of the division". This also gives the Bucs the option of moving Smith as well, who hasn't really lit it up as a 3rd round pick. There are no certainties in the draft. Sometimes gettting a proven player is a safer option.
This is a time to be excited man. It'll be fun to see some fresh new faces in town and a diferent attitude. I'll be moving back to town in Sept. and can't wait to see the boys in person again.
This is a time to be excited man. It'll be fun to see some fresh new faces in town and a diferent attitude. I'll be moving back to town in Sept. and can't wait to see the boys in person again.
9:49am, February 28, 2009
cremdonado
With so many pressing needs,we go for a catching TE.The tight end is going to be used a lot in our new offense,but was this move the best to make first?Giving up that second round pick will haunt us..I am so pissed THIS is the teams answer to free agency thus far.This guy better hit the ground running in Tampa-Im not buying this was a good move...
10:02am, February 28, 2009
JFS414
Dude, we're like a day and a half into FA, take it easy. If you feel a pain in your chest, take an aspirin and call 911. LOL In the draft you're going off a guys potential of being able to translate what he did in college into the NFL. In some instances I'd rather have a proven NFL commodity that a guy with the potential. As Parcells said "Potential just means you have done anything yet". I'm excited to see what the next week or so holds.
10:19am, February 28, 2009
bucfan47
Crem,
The move to get Winslow was great! There is no doubting that and the TE play from our guys has been awful for the past couple of years. I think the concern is giving up the 2nd round pick. That's the only thing to be concerned about. The team probably gave up one round to much. Should have been a 3rd rounder if you ask me, but if you feel Winslow will help out that much, then get him. I have no problem with getting him and the timing of it.
You can't wait around on making your team better just because free agency has begun. That's a big misconception. If you can get a guy that can help your team, either through free agency or trade, you execute it. PERIOD.
There should be no doubts this trade for Winslow is HUGE for Tampa. It gives a guy with little experience in McCown, or whomever lines up under center for day one, a much needed pass catching TE that's quite possibly the best TE in football.
That's a big signing. The guy can play football.
The move to get Winslow was great! There is no doubting that and the TE play from our guys has been awful for the past couple of years. I think the concern is giving up the 2nd round pick. That's the only thing to be concerned about. The team probably gave up one round to much. Should have been a 3rd rounder if you ask me, but if you feel Winslow will help out that much, then get him. I have no problem with getting him and the timing of it.
You can't wait around on making your team better just because free agency has begun. That's a big misconception. If you can get a guy that can help your team, either through free agency or trade, you execute it. PERIOD.
There should be no doubts this trade for Winslow is HUGE for Tampa. It gives a guy with little experience in McCown, or whomever lines up under center for day one, a much needed pass catching TE that's quite possibly the best TE in football.
That's a big signing. The guy can play football.
10:28am, February 28, 2009
gg72049
I agree completely JFS, these idiots on this board are totally nuts and ready to jump off the Skyway because of something they are complaining the Bucs did not do. They offered as much as Washington for Haynesworth and he picked the Sknis. ALA John Clayton, they offered the same to Vilma as the Saints and he wanted to play the middle so he stayed in New Orleans. Playing the middle seems to be more important than possibly more money. Brooks still thought he could be a starter so did not want to sit on the bench behind someone. Derrick. go look at your film last season even before you got hurt. You were no where near the player as before. How you got elected to the Pro Bow. is a joke.instead of Rudd. You can't pay Haynesworth more than the Skins did for a ridiculous offer already. Scott was offered great money and wants to play for his old coach. If they get Bernard or JOhnson in the next few days and a wide receiver they will have done alright.. Maybe they will get those draft choices back in the days ahead with more trades. (Smith , Griese, Mahan, or Troupe) I won't condemn them until after the draft if they show no moves to improve this team
10:41am, February 28, 2009
JFS414
And as far as the 2nd round pick coming back to haunt us, let me ask you a question. Would you rather have Kellen Winslow or Dexter Jackson (our 2nd last yr.) on your team?
10:59am, February 28, 2009
JDouble
1. With Jeremy Stevens, Alex Smith, and Ben Troupe...TE was one of strongest positions. It makes no sense to give up draft picks for any TE right now.
2. When rebuilding and getting younger, trading away your draft picks is just stupid.
3. Cutting all your LBs and then not getting anyone to replace them is just stupid.
4. Doing absolutey nothing to improve your biggest weakness (D-line) in FA is stupid.
Here is my theory. The Glazers are using Rheem as a scapegoat. They made him coach so he could be the bad guy. He can cut Brooks, do all the hard unpopular things that are required to rebuild. Then next year, when we have a top 5 pick from going 3-13...we'll fire Rheem and get a real coach.
BTW, people please quit saying how Alan came in 20 mil over the cap and left us 60 mil under like he did some great magic. We had cap issues when he came cause we had GREAT players. We have so much cap room now cause we have Ruud and.....that's it. Of course we have cap room why wouldn't we? With no elite players, I'm surprised we don't have more cap room.
2. When rebuilding and getting younger, trading away your draft picks is just stupid.
3. Cutting all your LBs and then not getting anyone to replace them is just stupid.
4. Doing absolutey nothing to improve your biggest weakness (D-line) in FA is stupid.
Here is my theory. The Glazers are using Rheem as a scapegoat. They made him coach so he could be the bad guy. He can cut Brooks, do all the hard unpopular things that are required to rebuild. Then next year, when we have a top 5 pick from going 3-13...we'll fire Rheem and get a real coach.
BTW, people please quit saying how Alan came in 20 mil over the cap and left us 60 mil under like he did some great magic. We had cap issues when he came cause we had GREAT players. We have so much cap room now cause we have Ruud and.....that's it. Of course we have cap room why wouldn't we? With no elite players, I'm surprised we don't have more cap room.
11:05am, February 28, 2009
JDouble
Last year we were a team of washed up has beens.
Now we are a team of second stringers.
Can we move up 3 picks in the draft and get Rey Maualuga?
The way I see it, we have T. Jackson, B. Ruud, A Talib, and G. Adams on defense. It would be awesome if Sabby, and Geno Hayes develope into great starters....but as of right now, we have those four young starters as our base. We need more. Ron Brace would of been a helluva 2nd round pick up....but now we have to 2nd round pick.
Now we are a team of second stringers.
Can we move up 3 picks in the draft and get Rey Maualuga?
The way I see it, we have T. Jackson, B. Ruud, A Talib, and G. Adams on defense. It would be awesome if Sabby, and Geno Hayes develope into great starters....but as of right now, we have those four young starters as our base. We need more. Ron Brace would of been a helluva 2nd round pick up....but now we have to 2nd round pick.
11:12am, February 28, 2009
JDouble
no 2nd round pick*
11:13am, February 28, 2009
jmekern
i can not believe this new regime, we needed to do alot we we haven't done sht , these guys are going to be gone, why not derrick ward, canty, tj housh, rocky bernard, boley going to the giants? why not tb, what are we saving our money 4, d henderson? n.o.'s 4th wr?, jabari greer? rides the bench in buffalo! wheres are pass rush going to come from? who"s going to stop the run? simple, nobody, this is sad, very sad, i know one thing, the glaziers aren't buying the whole rebuilding thing, they want to win now and i just don't see it (beware dominik) t.e. was not an area of need and t.e.'s don't win football games, watch out dominik, there's not as much breathing room as you think!
11:17am, February 28, 2009
JFS414
Would you guys PLEASE check your facts before you post. As they say, it's better for people to think your ignorant instead of opening your mouth to prove it. Troupe was cut by the Bucs in September and signed by the Raiders. He finished the year on IR I believe. JDub, John Gilmore is the 3rd piece of the puzzle in your #1 comment. And no, TE wasn't one of the strongest positions. If you think that you either didn't watch the game sor have never watched teams with a strong TE group. Gilmore is a great blocking TE (considered to be one of the best in the league at it), who even provided a few catches as well. Smith's catches have declined every year he's been here. Pairing Winslow with Gilmore gives the Bucs a very strong pair of TE's and if we can trade Smith for a pick, we could always use it on a replacement TE in the draft. Stevens was so in demand when he was released by the Bucs at the end of 2007, he ended up coming back to Tampa after being in the market for 4 months. Insanity is continuing to do the same thing and expecting different results. And to correct my previous post, Parcells said "Potential just means you HAVEN'T done anything yet ". My bad.
11:24am, February 28, 2009
JDouble
If they make good decisions, I think they will have plenty of breathing room jmekern. The thing is, in a year when we could have added two quality starters to our defense, they trade away our 2nd pick for an upgarde to a position that didn't need it. They cut our starting LBs cause they don't fit the new system, but then sign noone to replace them. If they keep making horrible decisions they will get no breathing room at all and be gone next year.
11:24am, February 28, 2009
JDouble
JFS, so I said Troupe and meant Gilmore...sorry for being sooo ignorant. TE was one of our strongest positions, that's not a good thing, but it's still true. If we woulda just resigned Jeremy Stevens, TEs and the O-line would have been just fine. Meanwhile we have nothing but 2nd string talent at QB, RB, and DL.
11:29am, February 28, 2009
cremdonado
You cant justify the loss of our second pick by what we took last year in the second round.This team needs serious Dline help and linebackers.We could have gotten two players in the two first rounds that could have addressed those holes.Now is the plan to trade down in the first and grab two players near the top of the second or bottom of first ?Im hoping there is a method to this madness. Maybe they feel English's stock has dropped and Brace isnt an answer..Maybe since Freeman is now seen as a project,the team is looking at having two 2nd round picks and trading down or out of the first..We have a trade partner in the Browns,maybe this is all apart of a draft day plan..Maybe we trade our first for the Browns 2 second round picks and a 5th ??It would stop us from reaching for a player too early...There will be solid LBs at the top of the second and freeman will still be there..Or are the Browns in cap trouble and dont want to face the large salary that comes with a top 5 pick-the Bucs have plenty of money to move up and get Raji or Orakpo..The Browns need a center and we need to move Mahan...The best center in the draft (mack)is projected as a late 1st rounder..Maybe there IS a plan..
My two first posting were after a disappointing day and wayyy too much sake.Now after some coffee and sleep,the optimism is slowly returning..Im hoping this team can turn it around,if not -next season is going to be hard to watch..
My two first posting were after a disappointing day and wayyy too much sake.Now after some coffee and sleep,the optimism is slowly returning..Im hoping this team can turn it around,if not -next season is going to be hard to watch..
11:46am, February 28, 2009
bucfan47
JDouble, who do you think the Bucs could have brought in here on defense? Really? Haynesworth and Vilma? Haynesworth wanted to go to the Redskins and it wasn't about the money. When you get in the realm of the money he was going to be paid, it becomes more about choice than money. He wanted to go to the Redskins over any other team.
Vilma DID NOT want to play anywhere on the field other than MLB. You could have offered him more money than the Saints did and it WOULD NOT have mattered.
And I don't agree with your insight on Allen. The team had great players back in 02 that were on the tail end of their careers and the team was very lop-sided in it's pay balance (offense to defense). The defense received much more in salary and back then due in large to poor decision making by the GM. It's fine to have a lop-sided pay structure as long as those guys are in their prime and performing well. Once they max-out and start the decline however, then if not addressed, will lead your team into the rebuilding mode by force, not by choice.
I've said it 1,000 times that shortly after the SuperBowl, the Bucs were in 100% rebuilding mode and it was never mentioned in the public because the team (although up-and-down) was not down enough for anyone to consider them rebuilding. But if you look closely at the cap situation and the breakdown of who was getting paid, based on performance, the team was clearly rebuilding.
Allen done a masterful job of getting the team into position of being competitive players in free agency for years to come. Sometimes, as you can see, even though you have MONEY it doesn't equate to you being able to draw players to your team. It obviously wasn't a big enough draw for Haynesworth, and if you listen to Kellen Winslow's interview, he stated he had no idea who in the hell Morris was until he met him face-to-face. That says alot to me, and it clearly shows that until these guys prove they can coach, it may take awhile for players to be drawn to Tampa.
That's just it in a nutshell. Many of you reading this were in favor of the coaching change and thus, must be willing to take the good with the bad. Truth is, there may be alot of bad to come. The team is clearly rebuilding, and that's their choice.
I feel it was the wrong choice, but they are running the team, not me or you.
What most of you failed to see when looking at this decision to let the last group of coaches go is that experience does matter in coaching. When it comes to free agency, experience matters when takling to players' agents and attempting to persuade players to come join your franchise. The new guys are probably running into alot of setbacks when it comes to talking to some of these guys, and to me, that's expected.
That's also why PR has probably come out and stated fans should not expect much action in free agency. Maybe one big splash signing, surrounded by smaller ones. That's the way to do if IMO, and if they can grab a few more role players during free agency I think they will be fine.
Again, you must accept the team is rebuilding. They clearly are. With that said, you CANNOT go out and fix the team overnight. This is a 2-3 year process and you MUST accept that as a fan.
And it can clearly take longer if they do not find a solution at the QB position.
Vilma DID NOT want to play anywhere on the field other than MLB. You could have offered him more money than the Saints did and it WOULD NOT have mattered.
And I don't agree with your insight on Allen. The team had great players back in 02 that were on the tail end of their careers and the team was very lop-sided in it's pay balance (offense to defense). The defense received much more in salary and back then due in large to poor decision making by the GM. It's fine to have a lop-sided pay structure as long as those guys are in their prime and performing well. Once they max-out and start the decline however, then if not addressed, will lead your team into the rebuilding mode by force, not by choice.
I've said it 1,000 times that shortly after the SuperBowl, the Bucs were in 100% rebuilding mode and it was never mentioned in the public because the team (although up-and-down) was not down enough for anyone to consider them rebuilding. But if you look closely at the cap situation and the breakdown of who was getting paid, based on performance, the team was clearly rebuilding.
Allen done a masterful job of getting the team into position of being competitive players in free agency for years to come. Sometimes, as you can see, even though you have MONEY it doesn't equate to you being able to draw players to your team. It obviously wasn't a big enough draw for Haynesworth, and if you listen to Kellen Winslow's interview, he stated he had no idea who in the hell Morris was until he met him face-to-face. That says alot to me, and it clearly shows that until these guys prove they can coach, it may take awhile for players to be drawn to Tampa.
That's just it in a nutshell. Many of you reading this were in favor of the coaching change and thus, must be willing to take the good with the bad. Truth is, there may be alot of bad to come. The team is clearly rebuilding, and that's their choice.
I feel it was the wrong choice, but they are running the team, not me or you.
What most of you failed to see when looking at this decision to let the last group of coaches go is that experience does matter in coaching. When it comes to free agency, experience matters when takling to players' agents and attempting to persuade players to come join your franchise. The new guys are probably running into alot of setbacks when it comes to talking to some of these guys, and to me, that's expected.
That's also why PR has probably come out and stated fans should not expect much action in free agency. Maybe one big splash signing, surrounded by smaller ones. That's the way to do if IMO, and if they can grab a few more role players during free agency I think they will be fine.
Again, you must accept the team is rebuilding. They clearly are. With that said, you CANNOT go out and fix the team overnight. This is a 2-3 year process and you MUST accept that as a fan.
And it can clearly take longer if they do not find a solution at the QB position.
11:56am, February 28, 2009
JFS414
Maybe the ignorant thing was a little harsh. My bad man. LOL I gotta agree to disagree with you on the TE thing. Watch the TE in this year's offense and I believe you'll see a dramatic difference from years past. Again man, we're barely a day and a half into FA, give it some time. Sounds like regardless of what we do from now on out though, you still won't be happy.
And Crem, I don't know how you can say you can't justify the 2nd round pick thing by our choice of Jackson last year. It's actually a perfect example of the chance you take on a guy's POTENTIAL. While we have had some great 2nd round picks, there is a risk with every guy coming out of college who has to prove he can play in the NFL. Some guys simply aren't up for it and you don't for sure until they're put in the fire. While I KNOW Winslow can play in the NFL, and will only turn 26 years old this season.
And Crem, I don't know how you can say you can't justify the 2nd round pick thing by our choice of Jackson last year. It's actually a perfect example of the chance you take on a guy's POTENTIAL. While we have had some great 2nd round picks, there is a risk with every guy coming out of college who has to prove he can play in the NFL. Some guys simply aren't up for it and you don't for sure until they're put in the fire. While I KNOW Winslow can play in the NFL, and will only turn 26 years old this season.
11:58am, February 28, 2009
JFS414
Crem, you do make a good point on the Bucs maybe trading out of the 1st round though. Would make sense, as long as they can find a partner who has the player they really want sitting at 19. If you check out this link: http://www.sportznutz.com/nfl/draft/draft_point_value_chart.htm you'll see a guidline a lot of teams use to value picks when doing a trade up/down. Definitely can't see the Bucs trading up to pick up Raji or Arakpo though. You're talking our number one next year as well, though anything is possible. I'm actually excited by the rebuilding program. It's going to be exciting to see some new names and some new schemes being played in Tampa next year.
12:11pm, February 28, 2009
cremdonado
Bucfan47-Gruden may have been more experienced than the new coaches,but he often painted himself into a corner..The Joey Galloway's (he is a prime example of how vets were favored)on the team who were given days off and special treatment did the most damage to his chances of still coaching in Tampa..This set up a bad locker room situation-young guys would bust thier ass all week as vets took days off and were assured their place in the line up on sundays..It worked in some cases,but backfired often.
This is a young mans game,and vets are there to provide leadership.What message were the future stars of this team receiving from vets getting the day off ??what message did they receive when injured vets took the field-strictly for ego,and kept a young talent from reaching the field?Gruden allowed this to happen time and time again,and it cost the team wins and more importantly,young player development.It finally cost Gru his job..He was the vets coach who lost the hearts of many of his younger players..
Thats why Heem is in charge now and why a group of vets were cut..Brooks is probably the best Buc in history,but cared more about his playing streak than allowing the team to put the best squad on the field..He is gone in hopes of showing the new guys that you have to earn your playing time EVERY week-NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE...
This is a young mans game,and vets are there to provide leadership.What message were the future stars of this team receiving from vets getting the day off ??what message did they receive when injured vets took the field-strictly for ego,and kept a young talent from reaching the field?Gruden allowed this to happen time and time again,and it cost the team wins and more importantly,young player development.It finally cost Gru his job..He was the vets coach who lost the hearts of many of his younger players..
Thats why Heem is in charge now and why a group of vets were cut..Brooks is probably the best Buc in history,but cared more about his playing streak than allowing the team to put the best squad on the field..He is gone in hopes of showing the new guys that you have to earn your playing time EVERY week-NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE...
12:13pm, February 28, 2009
aaronmay
Let's give the new guys a chance. Unfortunately, this may take a year or more to turn around. I've been a Bucs fan for 30yrs and frankly, I thought the Gruden / Kiffin product was boring.
How many times do you throw to a TE or RB across the field for a 1yrd gain. How many times do you give 5- 7yrds to opposing WR on first down to just give up the first down on 3 - 2...over and over. I won't argue that Gruden and Kiffen were very successful at winning 9 and 10 games, but IMO - it was boring to watch. I mean, the Steelers play defense and "run" the ball, but they are actually very entertaining to watch.
It most likely will be a long season, but I'm interested in seeing the new product and "direction" - Maybe...just maybe...McCown comes out and plays great? if so, then all is well - if not, we'll be as frustrated as every other team in the NFL that doesnt have a QB.
Just a thought - maybe the bucs were thinking of putting Vilma in the middle and allowing Rudd to play out side? If not, then you have to WAY over pay the guy to 1) leave his team and 2) Drew Brees...I mean, we are asking him to pick up and move to Tampa. So that he can play for a team that has zero idea of whom will be their quarterback and oh, do you mind playing out of position? (I hope that wasnt the case)
How many times do you throw to a TE or RB across the field for a 1yrd gain. How many times do you give 5- 7yrds to opposing WR on first down to just give up the first down on 3 - 2...over and over. I won't argue that Gruden and Kiffen were very successful at winning 9 and 10 games, but IMO - it was boring to watch. I mean, the Steelers play defense and "run" the ball, but they are actually very entertaining to watch.
It most likely will be a long season, but I'm interested in seeing the new product and "direction" - Maybe...just maybe...McCown comes out and plays great? if so, then all is well - if not, we'll be as frustrated as every other team in the NFL that doesnt have a QB.
Just a thought - maybe the bucs were thinking of putting Vilma in the middle and allowing Rudd to play out side? If not, then you have to WAY over pay the guy to 1) leave his team and 2) Drew Brees...I mean, we are asking him to pick up and move to Tampa. So that he can play for a team that has zero idea of whom will be their quarterback and oh, do you mind playing out of position? (I hope that wasnt the case)
12:34pm, February 28, 2009
termig8r
SPT reports:
- that the Bucs was not the top bidder for either Haynesworth or Vilma. They offered the second most for both. That reporter's take was a positive one as it showed Dominick was not going to over pay for FA's just since they have $$$.
- they also reported a RUMOR that TB & KC are both looking at a trade for Matt Cassel. The rumor is that it will take this year's 1st round pick & next year's 2nd round pick (conditional) to land him. The rumor went onto say the Bucs are talking to Cassel about a long term deal.
As for giving up picks for proven veterans - it makes sense you have a more known commodity at the NFL level vs 'potential.' How many picks never make it 'in the show.' Really the only negative for this route is the loss of cap money - but that doesn't seem like a problem this year for the Bucs.
If the Bucs lose their 1st & 2nd round picks (& that may not be the case - as has been mentioned here, there could be some other movements (both ways) that could solidify this year's draft). There are still IMPACT players to be had in FA at DE & DT. I would rather have those vets, than who the Bucs can draft at #19 & in the mid 2nd. It will cost more $$$, but hey that's what the fans want the Bucs to do in FA.
Bucs gotta step up & they have a long way to go, but all is not lost.
- that the Bucs was not the top bidder for either Haynesworth or Vilma. They offered the second most for both. That reporter's take was a positive one as it showed Dominick was not going to over pay for FA's just since they have $$$.
- they also reported a RUMOR that TB & KC are both looking at a trade for Matt Cassel. The rumor is that it will take this year's 1st round pick & next year's 2nd round pick (conditional) to land him. The rumor went onto say the Bucs are talking to Cassel about a long term deal.
As for giving up picks for proven veterans - it makes sense you have a more known commodity at the NFL level vs 'potential.' How many picks never make it 'in the show.' Really the only negative for this route is the loss of cap money - but that doesn't seem like a problem this year for the Bucs.
If the Bucs lose their 1st & 2nd round picks (& that may not be the case - as has been mentioned here, there could be some other movements (both ways) that could solidify this year's draft). There are still IMPACT players to be had in FA at DE & DT. I would rather have those vets, than who the Bucs can draft at #19 & in the mid 2nd. It will cost more $$$, but hey that's what the fans want the Bucs to do in FA.
Bucs gotta step up & they have a long way to go, but all is not lost.
12:36pm, February 28, 2009
termig8r
So much for the Cassel rumor (from PFT):
CASSEL IS A CHIEF
Posted by Mike Florio: Saturday, February 28, 2009 12:56 PM
Wow.
Less than a week ago, I opined at SportingNews.com that the Chiefs and the Patriots wouldn't be able to work out a trade for quarterback Matt Cassel because each side would be overly concerned about the perception that the other got the better side of the bargain.
So much for that.
Adam Schefter of NFL Network reports that the deal is done -- Cassel has been traded from the Patriots to the Chiefs.
More details and reaction to come.
CASSEL IS A CHIEF
Posted by Mike Florio: Saturday, February 28, 2009 12:56 PM
Wow.
Less than a week ago, I opined at SportingNews.com that the Chiefs and the Patriots wouldn't be able to work out a trade for quarterback Matt Cassel because each side would be overly concerned about the perception that the other got the better side of the bargain.
So much for that.
Adam Schefter of NFL Network reports that the deal is done -- Cassel has been traded from the Patriots to the Chiefs.
More details and reaction to come.
1:08pm, February 28, 2009
clairvoyantent1
Everyone keeps arguing b/w this being a young man's game or a rebuilding year for the bucs or the fact that Gruden favored veterans.... that argument is missing the point. Why are teams like New England and Pittsburgh always successful - the sytem and coaches they have in place. They are the models of consistency - always taking the best available players in the draft rather than reaching for need. New England hardly ever makes a splash free agent signing, and when they do (Randy Moss) it's on the cheap. They stick to their system and find players that fit it - regardless of whether or not the fans have heard of the player. The Pats just signed a 33 year old running back. Why? Because he fits and will help them probably make the playoffs again.
Teams like washington and Dallas are all about the headlines - grabbing all the big names regardless of if they fit or are right for their system. How many championships have they won this decade with that mindset?
This is shaping up to be a tryout year for the Bucs - a year to see what they have on the roster from the guys who have never been given a chance. That is the absolute right thing to do, rather than reaching in free agency and signing everybody under the sun.
Can Luke McCown, Geno Hayes, Black, Heyward, Stovall, Dexter Jackson, Dre Moore, and others play at the NFL level and be successful? That looks to be a question the Bucs are willing to find out.
Teams like washington and Dallas are all about the headlines - grabbing all the big names regardless of if they fit or are right for their system. How many championships have they won this decade with that mindset?
This is shaping up to be a tryout year for the Bucs - a year to see what they have on the roster from the guys who have never been given a chance. That is the absolute right thing to do, rather than reaching in free agency and signing everybody under the sun.
Can Luke McCown, Geno Hayes, Black, Heyward, Stovall, Dexter Jackson, Dre Moore, and others play at the NFL level and be successful? That looks to be a question the Bucs are willing to find out.
2:02pm, February 28, 2009
Pewterdude
I just hope the team's dragging their feet doesn't allow other teams to sign DE's Chris Canty (6-7/304) and only 25 from Dallas, or Arizona's DE Antonio Smith (6-4/285), 26 years old and already visiting Philly.
I notice a few of you Bucs apologists ;) who say everyone is only upset at the Bucs for failing to sign Fat Albert and Vilma fail to mention the Bucs didn't have a plan B or allowed the G-MEN to sign ATL LB Michael Boley on Friday night and he's a great blitzer who is only 7 lbs. lighter than Vilma and could have bulked up easily. A few of you miss the point that it was HOW the Bucs dismissed Brooks that has decent fans who appreciate players adding to their communities being indignant with the team's poor communication with him AND Warrick Dunn. They don't come any classier than those two...
This is an open forum where fans come to rejoice, bitch, confirm, 2nd guess, express optimism beyond belief and also doubt, or any other of a myriad of thoughts and feelings about our team. No one here professes to be an expert, we just come here to talk with people who love the Bucs like we all do but loving a team doesn't mean you HAVE to agree with the moves or LACK OF URGENCY that a fan may perceive the team to be expressing. We don't all have to agree with the "wait and see" agenda as we're seeing the team drag their feet and see the market dry up at positions of need. Other than a the Raider OG that's coming to visit today, WHAT OTHER VISIT HAS ANY FA MADE TO ONE BUC IN THE EARLY STAGES OF FA? DE Antonio Smith has made a visit to Philly it's been reported, TJ Who's Your Mama has been to Seattle and is on his way to Minnesota, and a number of FA's have been on planes to visit teams that are serious and have a sense of urgency about filling their FA needs.
Our LB's that we already have in (especially) Quincy Black, Geno Hayes, and Adam Hayward would seem capable of stepping up and flanking Ruud, but it's the (above mentioned)
DE's that we can sign if we jump on them NOW.
DT seems to be drying up. Has Seattle's Rocky Bernard (6-3/308) 29 years old been signed yet or maybe we should explore a trade for Cleveland's massive DT Shaun Rogers for players and cash and not an early round draft pick.
It's imperative that the team builds it's immediate needs through FA and not let the market dry up as the team drags it's feet and would probably end up overpaying a 2nd tier FA anyway. ACT NOW.
WE STILL DON'T HAVE AN NFL STARTING QB!!!!!
I notice a few of you Bucs apologists ;) who say everyone is only upset at the Bucs for failing to sign Fat Albert and Vilma fail to mention the Bucs didn't have a plan B or allowed the G-MEN to sign ATL LB Michael Boley on Friday night and he's a great blitzer who is only 7 lbs. lighter than Vilma and could have bulked up easily. A few of you miss the point that it was HOW the Bucs dismissed Brooks that has decent fans who appreciate players adding to their communities being indignant with the team's poor communication with him AND Warrick Dunn. They don't come any classier than those two...
This is an open forum where fans come to rejoice, bitch, confirm, 2nd guess, express optimism beyond belief and also doubt, or any other of a myriad of thoughts and feelings about our team. No one here professes to be an expert, we just come here to talk with people who love the Bucs like we all do but loving a team doesn't mean you HAVE to agree with the moves or LACK OF URGENCY that a fan may perceive the team to be expressing. We don't all have to agree with the "wait and see" agenda as we're seeing the team drag their feet and see the market dry up at positions of need. Other than a the Raider OG that's coming to visit today, WHAT OTHER VISIT HAS ANY FA MADE TO ONE BUC IN THE EARLY STAGES OF FA? DE Antonio Smith has made a visit to Philly it's been reported, TJ Who's Your Mama has been to Seattle and is on his way to Minnesota, and a number of FA's have been on planes to visit teams that are serious and have a sense of urgency about filling their FA needs.
Our LB's that we already have in (especially) Quincy Black, Geno Hayes, and Adam Hayward would seem capable of stepping up and flanking Ruud, but it's the (above mentioned)
DE's that we can sign if we jump on them NOW.
DT seems to be drying up. Has Seattle's Rocky Bernard (6-3/308) 29 years old been signed yet or maybe we should explore a trade for Cleveland's massive DT Shaun Rogers for players and cash and not an early round draft pick.
It's imperative that the team builds it's immediate needs through FA and not let the market dry up as the team drags it's feet and would probably end up overpaying a 2nd tier FA anyway. ACT NOW.
WE STILL DON'T HAVE AN NFL STARTING QB!!!!!
3:03pm, February 28, 2009
JDouble
I wish instead of giving Cleveland a 2nd and a 5th for Winslow, we would have got creative. Rodgers wants out, it's well known. So I think we should have traded Cleveland our 1st round and 4th round pick, for thier 2nd round pick, Winslow, and Rodgers. I bet they would have done it. They would have 2 first round rpicks, be rid of two players causing problems for them, and only lose a 2nd rounder. While we would have still got Winslow, plus Rodgers and had 2 second round picks.
To make it even more interesting, Cleveland is desperate for a center, we could of inculded Sean Mahan instead of the 4th rounder which would have been even better.
Just sayin'
To make it even more interesting, Cleveland is desperate for a center, we could of inculded Sean Mahan instead of the 4th rounder which would have been even better.
Just sayin'
3:18pm, February 28, 2009
Pewterdude
JDouble,
I think we would have to have given Cleveland a better player than Sean Mahan or along with Mahan in addition to our 4th rounder to make your above proposed trade work. It would have been killer for us though....
I think we would have to have given Cleveland a better player than Sean Mahan or along with Mahan in addition to our 4th rounder to make your above proposed trade work. It would have been killer for us though....
6:56pm, February 28, 2009
sanders9759
Pewterdude, in your other post don't forget it is also now Brooks Fault Bush ran past the Dline, past him and the secondary to retake the lead in the Raiders Game. Everyone agreed the Dline could not stop anyone and the secondary was getting burned. I guess when all your friend around the NFL see how you were treated and how they told your head coach everything was ok, promote Morris take Monte's place and after he does they stab him without warning like they did Brooks???? Hold on P BUC You will be able to make a great deal before long. They are running out of options!!!
10:27pm, February 28, 2009
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