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Johnson Will Compete To Start, Griese Not Present Yet |
 Bucs second-year quarterback Josh Johnson plans to compete with Luke McCown for a starting job this season (Cliff Welch) |
Tampa Bay Buccaneers quarterback Josh Johnson said he is competing to be the starting quarterback. Johnson discussed the competition and learning the new offense. Thus far this offseason, quarterback Brian Griese has not been at One Buc Place working with Johnson and quarterback Luke McCown.
Buccaneers quarterback Josh Johnson is competing for the starting quarterback position as the Bucs players continue their voluntary offseason workouts. Johnson met with Pewter Report Wednesday and updated his status in the competition for the vacant starting quarterback position. Johnson was asked if he is in fact in competition to be next season's starter with Luke McCown and Brian Griese.
"Most definitely," said Johnson. "That's what all of last year was for, for me to learn and come into this season ready to compete for the job. That's why I came in early everyday and studied film with Coach Olson. Once I picked up on the playbook, it was time to understand defenses. It helped going against our defense in practice, but watching film I can make the right calls and understand what I'm seeing from the defense. That's why I'm just as much a part of this competition as anybody else. A lot of people outside of this organization might not understand that, but in time people will get a chance to see what I can do.
"From my understanding we're all competing. If you're on the roster you're competing. Coach [Jagodzinski] gave all of us our expectations together. He and I are building a relationship right now. I told him, ‘Coach, whatever you feel like I need to work on to help me become a better quarterback, please tell me.' He was the same way, ‘When you guys have suggestions bring them to me.' As of right now he gave us a very good understanding of what he expects from the quarterback position."
At this point, the competition seems to be relegated to just McCown and Johnson. The two of them have been in Tampa Bay working with new offensive coordinator Jeff Jagodzinski and quarterbacks coach Greg Olson. McCown and Johnson have been learning the new offense, and have been on the field with teammates going through the new plays. According to Johnson, the veteran Griese has not been at the facility up to this point of the offseason, but Johnson's tone emphasized that would not hold Griese back later on.
"Griese has other things going on," Johnson said. "When I've been here he hasn't been here. Coach Olson has talked to him a lot, so I'm pretty sure he'll be around. He's been doing it for so many years. He knows. He is so smart, and he understands the game of football. I'm pretty sure he's going to learn this playbook in a day. We'll see him next week when mini-camp starts. I don't know the whole situation, I haven't talked to Brian, so we'll see."
The Bucs re-signed McCown to a two-year, $7.5 million contract before the free agent signing period began in late-February. The decision to re-sign McCown was one of the factors that led to the decision to not re-sign Jeff Garcia, whom McCown backed up for the majority of the 2008 season.
McCown owns a 1-6 record as a starter in the NFL (1-2 in Tampa Bay) and has a career quarterback rating of 75.2, but he owns a 91 QB rating in seven games (three starts) with the Buccaneers. In 2007, McCown appeared in five games for the Bucs. He completed 67.6 percent of his passes for 1,009 yards with five touchdowns and three interceptions.
Griese recently turned 34, and started five games for Tampa Bay last season. He threw for 1,073 yards with five touchdowns and seven interceptions with a rating of 69.4. Griese has seen action in 93 games in his career, and has much more experience than other two quarterbacks. Johnson spent the majority of 2008 as the emergency third quarterback, but says that all the quarterbacks are on an equal footing in terms of competing for the starting job.
"From a playbook standpoint we are on equal footing now," said Johnson. "Those guys have been in the league a lot longer obviously, and I still have a lot to learn, but I've learned enough to where I can compete now. Being on the field, it's kind about going out there and playing as opposed to last year when I was thinking so much. They do have six or seven years on me, but I feel like I've prepared and learned enough in the past year to go out and compete to the best of my ability and try and win the starting job."
With four quarterbacks in the preseason last year, Johnson only saw extensive action in one game: the final contest at Houston. Johnson completed 8-of-13 passes (61.5 percent) for 85 yards with no touchdowns and no interceptions. Johnson rushed once for a loss of two yards and had a fumble that was recovered by the Texans. That was only extensive playing time for Bucs fans to get a look at Johnson last season. The second-year pro Johnson acknowledges that with more established veterans in the competition he can be the forgotten man at times.
"It's understandable when you consider I was a fifth-round draft pick," said Johnson. "A lot of people weren't at practice last year a lot to see me in practice and my development as an NFL player. It's understandable, but that's the whole point of me proving it on the field. People can say whatever they want, but it all boils down to what you do on the field, and I'm looking forward to getting my opportunity."
Johnson is focused on improving and making the most out of the opportunity to compete for the starting quarterbacks position. The second-year pro is not worried about out-performing the other quarterbacks but still being a backup.
"I can't control all that," said Johnson. "I just want to make sure I go out and do the best I can when the opportunity presents itself. I'm getting the opportunity to compete, and that's all I can ever ask for."
Look for more from Johnson's interview with Pewter Report in a few Pewter Insider columns coming out in the days to come. Johnson discusses the new offense, the weapons the offense has and the potential for a vertical passing attack. He also discusses how he fits in the new offense coming from Jon Gruden's system, how he developed over his rookie season, and his pursuit to become a more accurate and consistent quarterback.
"Most definitely," said Johnson. "That's what all of last year was for, for me to learn and come into this season ready to compete for the job. That's why I came in early everyday and studied film with Coach Olson. Once I picked up on the playbook, it was time to understand defenses. It helped going against our defense in practice, but watching film I can make the right calls and understand what I'm seeing from the defense. That's why I'm just as much a part of this competition as anybody else. A lot of people outside of this organization might not understand that, but in time people will get a chance to see what I can do.
"From my understanding we're all competing. If you're on the roster you're competing. Coach [Jagodzinski] gave all of us our expectations together. He and I are building a relationship right now. I told him, ‘Coach, whatever you feel like I need to work on to help me become a better quarterback, please tell me.' He was the same way, ‘When you guys have suggestions bring them to me.' As of right now he gave us a very good understanding of what he expects from the quarterback position."
At this point, the competition seems to be relegated to just McCown and Johnson. The two of them have been in Tampa Bay working with new offensive coordinator Jeff Jagodzinski and quarterbacks coach Greg Olson. McCown and Johnson have been learning the new offense, and have been on the field with teammates going through the new plays. According to Johnson, the veteran Griese has not been at the facility up to this point of the offseason, but Johnson's tone emphasized that would not hold Griese back later on.
"Griese has other things going on," Johnson said. "When I've been here he hasn't been here. Coach Olson has talked to him a lot, so I'm pretty sure he'll be around. He's been doing it for so many years. He knows. He is so smart, and he understands the game of football. I'm pretty sure he's going to learn this playbook in a day. We'll see him next week when mini-camp starts. I don't know the whole situation, I haven't talked to Brian, so we'll see."
The Bucs re-signed McCown to a two-year, $7.5 million contract before the free agent signing period began in late-February. The decision to re-sign McCown was one of the factors that led to the decision to not re-sign Jeff Garcia, whom McCown backed up for the majority of the 2008 season.
McCown owns a 1-6 record as a starter in the NFL (1-2 in Tampa Bay) and has a career quarterback rating of 75.2, but he owns a 91 QB rating in seven games (three starts) with the Buccaneers. In 2007, McCown appeared in five games for the Bucs. He completed 67.6 percent of his passes for 1,009 yards with five touchdowns and three interceptions.
Griese recently turned 34, and started five games for Tampa Bay last season. He threw for 1,073 yards with five touchdowns and seven interceptions with a rating of 69.4. Griese has seen action in 93 games in his career, and has much more experience than other two quarterbacks. Johnson spent the majority of 2008 as the emergency third quarterback, but says that all the quarterbacks are on an equal footing in terms of competing for the starting job.
"From a playbook standpoint we are on equal footing now," said Johnson. "Those guys have been in the league a lot longer obviously, and I still have a lot to learn, but I've learned enough to where I can compete now. Being on the field, it's kind about going out there and playing as opposed to last year when I was thinking so much. They do have six or seven years on me, but I feel like I've prepared and learned enough in the past year to go out and compete to the best of my ability and try and win the starting job."
With four quarterbacks in the preseason last year, Johnson only saw extensive action in one game: the final contest at Houston. Johnson completed 8-of-13 passes (61.5 percent) for 85 yards with no touchdowns and no interceptions. Johnson rushed once for a loss of two yards and had a fumble that was recovered by the Texans. That was only extensive playing time for Bucs fans to get a look at Johnson last season. The second-year pro Johnson acknowledges that with more established veterans in the competition he can be the forgotten man at times.
"It's understandable when you consider I was a fifth-round draft pick," said Johnson. "A lot of people weren't at practice last year a lot to see me in practice and my development as an NFL player. It's understandable, but that's the whole point of me proving it on the field. People can say whatever they want, but it all boils down to what you do on the field, and I'm looking forward to getting my opportunity."
Johnson is focused on improving and making the most out of the opportunity to compete for the starting quarterbacks position. The second-year pro is not worried about out-performing the other quarterbacks but still being a backup.
"I can't control all that," said Johnson. "I just want to make sure I go out and do the best I can when the opportunity presents itself. I'm getting the opportunity to compete, and that's all I can ever ask for."
Look for more from Johnson's interview with Pewter Report in a few Pewter Insider columns coming out in the days to come. Johnson discusses the new offense, the weapons the offense has and the potential for a vertical passing attack. He also discusses how he fits in the new offense coming from Jon Gruden's system, how he developed over his rookie season, and his pursuit to become a more accurate and consistent quarterback.
Comments
MarkWatson
9:25am, March 26, 2009
unclestan
Like his confidence. Good sign.
9:38am, March 26, 2009
PoundThatRock
Yah I like this kid. He understands that last season it was his job to absorb as much of the offense and what it means to be an NFL quarterback. Now he knows the expectations are higher this year and it's time to show what he's learned so far.
Just gotta keep working on the accuracy.
Just gotta keep working on the accuracy.
10:17am, March 26, 2009
jrbuc19
i really like this guy! i thinkl he will surprize alot of peep as long as he can get his accuracy down!
10:27am, March 26, 2009
bucfan47
Off-topic here but I am bumfounded that the league is seriously going ot expand the regular season to 17or 18 games....
I just can't believe it...
I just can't believe it...
10:42am, March 26, 2009
1bucfanjeff
I'm more surprised that Goodell wants to keep going overseas. The players hate it and it hurts revenues for the home city/team. NFL Europe just folded, even after it took over the World League (or what ever it was before NFL Europe). As a fan I don't like watching those games, it just doesn't have the same feel.
I'd much rather have 18 regular season and 2 preseason than the overseas crap.
I'd much rather have 18 regular season and 2 preseason than the overseas crap.
11:24am, March 26, 2009
dpc614
I want this kid to start this year and see what he does. I think he has loads of potential. Way more than McCown does. He can throw and is pretty accurate. Don't sleep on this kid he could actually win the job. He was just soaking up information last year. He's got a great attitude. I think we got a qb for now and the future. It's gonna be a Big pre-season for him if it's a real open competition.
11:26am, March 26, 2009
Horse
bucfan47, It makes sense to me that the NFL does this. I would drop one pre season game and make that the beginning of regular season. I would take that extra game and put it at a neutral site. I would make that extra game an out of conference game. To me this is the way the NFL is going to keep in business.
It's all about changing to what the public wants now, not what it has had in the past. Who wants to pay for 2-3 preseason tickets at regular season ticket prices?
It's all about changing to what the public wants now, not what it has had in the past. Who wants to pay for 2-3 preseason tickets at regular season ticket prices?
11:30am, March 26, 2009
mtnbucman
Hey guys this is about Johnson, not the schedule.
JJ should make a smooth transition. He played in a Grudenesque west coast in college, learned the pro version of it last year and that will transfer to Jagz more verticle version of the west coast. JJ will be able to make all the throws.
JJ should make a smooth transition. He played in a Grudenesque west coast in college, learned the pro version of it last year and that will transfer to Jagz more verticle version of the west coast. JJ will be able to make all the throws.
11:42am, March 26, 2009
jrwilson85
Has Josh gotten any bigger physically? He will need more strength to be able to take the hits won't he?
Who knows, after the draft, coach Olson could say alright Josh get over here! And two guys would show up, one of them would be 6'5" 250 lbs.
Who knows, after the draft, coach Olson could say alright Josh get over here! And two guys would show up, one of them would be 6'5" 250 lbs.
11:43am, March 26, 2009
Loneal27
Regarding the Bucs apparent lack of a plan:
What is so hard about identifying the plan? We are trying to get younger, faster, more physical, and aggressive.
On offense, we want to pound the rock with Graham and Ward, behind our physical offensive line and big blocking Wrs in Bryant and Clayton. We want to provide our young QBs (whoever they may be) with a solid intermediate option in Winslow, and continue to capitalize on Bryant's production. At QB, there simply was no option beyond Cassel that made sense for the Bucs. Garcia was horrible last year, that does not need to be proven. Grossman, Boller, and Losman offer nothing extraordinarily better than McCown. So, we either address QB in the draft, or ride out McCown/Johnson this year until next year. We can't simply create Qbs out of thin air.
On defense, they have been quite clear as to what the plan is. They want a more aggressive style, with corners playing up on the WRs, LBs attacking the line of scrimmage more, and a defensive line with bigger DTs and DEs that can win one-on-one matchups. Brooks and June don't fit the LB mold. Beyond AH, there were no long term answers at DT. At corner, I think we missed the boat on some FAs like McFadden and Bodden.
I think that the Bucs have only made offers to FAs which they believe will be part of this team's long term plans. With the hiring of a new regime, there is an inevitable grace period to set things right, and so I belive the new regime is taking advantage of that. No quick fixes, but fundamental, bottom up changes.
But, there definitely is a plan, regardless of whether Solomon W. knows about it or not.
What is so hard about identifying the plan? We are trying to get younger, faster, more physical, and aggressive.
On offense, we want to pound the rock with Graham and Ward, behind our physical offensive line and big blocking Wrs in Bryant and Clayton. We want to provide our young QBs (whoever they may be) with a solid intermediate option in Winslow, and continue to capitalize on Bryant's production. At QB, there simply was no option beyond Cassel that made sense for the Bucs. Garcia was horrible last year, that does not need to be proven. Grossman, Boller, and Losman offer nothing extraordinarily better than McCown. So, we either address QB in the draft, or ride out McCown/Johnson this year until next year. We can't simply create Qbs out of thin air.
On defense, they have been quite clear as to what the plan is. They want a more aggressive style, with corners playing up on the WRs, LBs attacking the line of scrimmage more, and a defensive line with bigger DTs and DEs that can win one-on-one matchups. Brooks and June don't fit the LB mold. Beyond AH, there were no long term answers at DT. At corner, I think we missed the boat on some FAs like McFadden and Bodden.
I think that the Bucs have only made offers to FAs which they believe will be part of this team's long term plans. With the hiring of a new regime, there is an inevitable grace period to set things right, and so I belive the new regime is taking advantage of that. No quick fixes, but fundamental, bottom up changes.
But, there definitely is a plan, regardless of whether Solomon W. knows about it or not.
11:52am, March 26, 2009
Loneal27
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sITaJVOX0BQ&feature=related
12:03pm, March 26, 2009
bucbob3
Learn the playbook in a Day? Things really have changed around here!
12:06pm, March 26, 2009
bucfan47
The problem Oneal is this team failed to address the defense like they wanted. It's not Dominik's fault, it was the hand he was dealt. But if you think it was in the teams overall plan NOT to sign anyone on defense, yet allow 2 guys to sign with other teams, I think that woud be incorrect.
If we were behind the scenes I think we would have realized this team would have liked to do much more on defense via free agency, but simply had no time or manpower to get on the phones, arrange visits and negogiate offers. They just didn't have time.
Maybe they can make up for some of it in the draft but I just don't see it this season. I think the defense is going to take two-steps in the wrong direction before it improves.
Horse - On the 18 game season. I just don't see how anyone (especially season ticket holders) could ever be for this..I don't rationalize this decision by cutting down on the number of pre-season games. I get why they have the pre-season and I also get no one attends.
But think about what the league is going to do here. They are looking at adding 2 more games to the season. Where do you think they are going to play those games? Try in other countries. They aren't increasing the schedule for the ticket holders...Look at Tampa this season. They are already executing the plan of taking football to other countries, the Bucs will play in London this season which equates to one less home game for the fans.
I also cannot stand playing games abroad. The Jet-lag is bad enough, and last time I checked the NFL stands for National Football League, not World-wide Football League.
It's a dumb idea all the way around..They aren't playing those extra two games in the states...It's about money, and to me this all equates to water-downed football, more injuries, and I don't like it...
If we were behind the scenes I think we would have realized this team would have liked to do much more on defense via free agency, but simply had no time or manpower to get on the phones, arrange visits and negogiate offers. They just didn't have time.
Maybe they can make up for some of it in the draft but I just don't see it this season. I think the defense is going to take two-steps in the wrong direction before it improves.
Horse - On the 18 game season. I just don't see how anyone (especially season ticket holders) could ever be for this..I don't rationalize this decision by cutting down on the number of pre-season games. I get why they have the pre-season and I also get no one attends.
But think about what the league is going to do here. They are looking at adding 2 more games to the season. Where do you think they are going to play those games? Try in other countries. They aren't increasing the schedule for the ticket holders...Look at Tampa this season. They are already executing the plan of taking football to other countries, the Bucs will play in London this season which equates to one less home game for the fans.
I also cannot stand playing games abroad. The Jet-lag is bad enough, and last time I checked the NFL stands for National Football League, not World-wide Football League.
It's a dumb idea all the way around..They aren't playing those extra two games in the states...It's about money, and to me this all equates to water-downed football, more injuries, and I don't like it...
12:16pm, March 26, 2009
Loneal27
Who on defense did we miss on? Vilma of the knee problems and concussions? AH, of the 100 million contract?
This is a weak FA class, with many of the studs franchised. This is also a stronger defensive draft than offensive.
This is a weak FA class, with many of the studs franchised. This is also a stronger defensive draft than offensive.
12:34pm, March 26, 2009
tjhuth
If they are planning to add games, will they also be adding to the number of players teams can have on their rosters? If not, they should.
12:57pm, March 26, 2009
mtnbucman
Loneal27, I really don't believe Cassel offered any more than what they already had in Luke except cost 3xs more. Cassel may be the next Scott Mitchell.
Pretty much spot on with everything else you said, but I get the feeling folks think Bates wants big 3-4 type DTs - not the case. I think you look for guys in the 310-320 lb range but 4-3 guys.
I think the PLAN started when Allen was here. If the current QB(s), DTs and LBs work out, the only REAL hole I see right now is at CB.
Pretty much spot on with everything else you said, but I get the feeling folks think Bates wants big 3-4 type DTs - not the case. I think you look for guys in the 310-320 lb range but 4-3 guys.
I think the PLAN started when Allen was here. If the current QB(s), DTs and LBs work out, the only REAL hole I see right now is at CB.
1:04pm, March 26, 2009
bucfan47
Oneal - The players the Bucs publicly stated they had interest in were Chris Canty, Antonio Smith and Rocky Bernard, specifically. Both Canty and Smith were very sought after players and did not last long in free agency, which is why we were never in the running, we never had the opportunity to pick up the phone.
The also liked Michael Boley at the LB spot, and they appeared high enough on Jabari Greer to bring him in for a visit, but a contract was never reached. He ended up signing with the Saints, and there's alot of people very high on him out of Tennessee. I personally watched him play here in Knoxville and he's going to be a player in this league.
That's just a few I know for sure. Not to mention I know there are many others they expressed interest in...Who knows how far they got in discussions but it's evident they were short-handed. It's well documented by PR.
You'd have to be biased towards this team to think the defense has not taken a MAJOR step backwards.
The also liked Michael Boley at the LB spot, and they appeared high enough on Jabari Greer to bring him in for a visit, but a contract was never reached. He ended up signing with the Saints, and there's alot of people very high on him out of Tennessee. I personally watched him play here in Knoxville and he's going to be a player in this league.
That's just a few I know for sure. Not to mention I know there are many others they expressed interest in...Who knows how far they got in discussions but it's evident they were short-handed. It's well documented by PR.
You'd have to be biased towards this team to think the defense has not taken a MAJOR step backwards.
1:10pm, March 26, 2009
Loneal27
I think your facts are wrong. Antonio Smith and Greer were not signed within the first flush of free agency. The Buc had talks with Smith and also Greer - so not signing them was not the result of a lack of manpower. Those players just chose to sign elsewhere., so it's incorrect to attribute their failure to sign to a flaw in the front office's structure.
Canty was signed around the same time D Ward was signed, so, again, the Bucs did demonstrate an ability to pick up the phone. I do actually like Canty.
Boley is more of a finesse, cover LB. He does not fit the LB Bates and Raheem have said they want.
I'm a Bucs fan, but I'm not blinded by solidarity. I was against the the Gruden firing, but, I understand some of the reasons why it happened, and now I am giving the new regime a fair shake. Stick to the facts and your arguments and not name calling.
This team has wallowed in relative mediocrity for some time now. If "taking a step backwards" on defense next season means that we are fundamentally realigning how we do things here, and cultivating young aggressive players to fit a new system, then I have no problem with it. Our defense was crap down the stretch.
Canty was signed around the same time D Ward was signed, so, again, the Bucs did demonstrate an ability to pick up the phone. I do actually like Canty.
Boley is more of a finesse, cover LB. He does not fit the LB Bates and Raheem have said they want.
I'm a Bucs fan, but I'm not blinded by solidarity. I was against the the Gruden firing, but, I understand some of the reasons why it happened, and now I am giving the new regime a fair shake. Stick to the facts and your arguments and not name calling.
This team has wallowed in relative mediocrity for some time now. If "taking a step backwards" on defense next season means that we are fundamentally realigning how we do things here, and cultivating young aggressive players to fit a new system, then I have no problem with it. Our defense was crap down the stretch.
1:39pm, March 26, 2009
buc13jcs
Loneal27
I wasn't for or against the firing but I too agree w/ it...I agree w/ everything else you said..Love the new direction...
bucfan47
This is scary, but I agree w/ you about extending the season...I like the "idea" of more meaningful games, but at what cost...
How are these guys supposed to get in football shape in 2 freaking preseason games...How are they supposed to evaluate talent in that time? Rookies will not be able to keep up later in the season...More injuries...etc, etc...
This is a bad idea...
Over seas games= worse idea...Canada and Mexico I understand...
I wasn't for or against the firing but I too agree w/ it...I agree w/ everything else you said..Love the new direction...
bucfan47
This is scary, but I agree w/ you about extending the season...I like the "idea" of more meaningful games, but at what cost...
How are these guys supposed to get in football shape in 2 freaking preseason games...How are they supposed to evaluate talent in that time? Rookies will not be able to keep up later in the season...More injuries...etc, etc...
This is a bad idea...
Over seas games= worse idea...Canada and Mexico I understand...
2:02pm, March 26, 2009
buc13jcs
Oh yeah, Josh Johnson...
Love this kid, he's got a good head on his shoulders...
Love this kid, he's got a good head on his shoulders...
2:03pm, March 26, 2009
bucfan47
Oneal - My facts are straight. Antonio Smith was signed exactly one day after the start of free agency, as was Michael Boley. You may not think he was a good fit for this defense, but the coaching staff apparently did as he was listed as one of the LB's they were interested in acquiring. They just never had a chance.
Colin Cole, Rocky Bernard, and Chris Canty were all three signed March 1st, which was a Sunday, just two days after the start of free agency. So it's easy to see all those players were in fact, well sought after in the market. They all signed hefty contracts.
Dominik was busy on Sunday afternoon resigning Clayton to an extension, as he was inked as well on March 1st.
It was five days into free agency before the Bucs had their 1st major signing in Derrick Ward.
If that's not proof of not having enough manpower then I'm not sure what is....They missed the boat on defense, and that's all there is to it...Dominik has done a great job IMO with what he has to work with up until this point, but the truth is the team is behind schedule. You're just not going to hear the coaches admit anything of the sort.
To me, that's obvious...All you have to do is look at the roster...
Colin Cole, Rocky Bernard, and Chris Canty were all three signed March 1st, which was a Sunday, just two days after the start of free agency. So it's easy to see all those players were in fact, well sought after in the market. They all signed hefty contracts.
Dominik was busy on Sunday afternoon resigning Clayton to an extension, as he was inked as well on March 1st.
It was five days into free agency before the Bucs had their 1st major signing in Derrick Ward.
If that's not proof of not having enough manpower then I'm not sure what is....They missed the boat on defense, and that's all there is to it...Dominik has done a great job IMO with what he has to work with up until this point, but the truth is the team is behind schedule. You're just not going to hear the coaches admit anything of the sort.
To me, that's obvious...All you have to do is look at the roster...
2:50pm, March 26, 2009
bucfan47
And I never stated Jabari Greer was signed during the first wave of free agency. Of course not. The Bucs didn't bring anyone in for a visit during the first wave of free agency besides Ward.
They didn't even have the people in line to linup the visits..In the first days of free agency, it should be apparent that Dominik spent all his time A). Trying to reach the deal with Haynesworth, B). Doing the same thing with Vilma and C) Re-signing his own players...and D). Trading with the Browns for Winslow.
That's all anyone one person would have time to do..He's not a robot...He can only do so much in a day...That's was probably more than he could handle during the first couple days...And the lack of manpower thats been proven to be true, explains 100% as to why we didn't have any visits lined up after the initial first couple days...
How much has it cost this team? IMO, a HUGE amount...I'd go as far as to say it's quite possibly set the team back by one full year...If they sign Chris Canty or Antonio Smith, the #19 selection would have went a variety of directions. It basically would have changed the entire outlook on this draft.
Instead, we now are looking at two must-fill positions in DE and CB. No way around it...No excuse for the DE position to NOT have been filled by now.
They didn't even have the people in line to linup the visits..In the first days of free agency, it should be apparent that Dominik spent all his time A). Trying to reach the deal with Haynesworth, B). Doing the same thing with Vilma and C) Re-signing his own players...and D). Trading with the Browns for Winslow.
That's all anyone one person would have time to do..He's not a robot...He can only do so much in a day...That's was probably more than he could handle during the first couple days...And the lack of manpower thats been proven to be true, explains 100% as to why we didn't have any visits lined up after the initial first couple days...
How much has it cost this team? IMO, a HUGE amount...I'd go as far as to say it's quite possibly set the team back by one full year...If they sign Chris Canty or Antonio Smith, the #19 selection would have went a variety of directions. It basically would have changed the entire outlook on this draft.
Instead, we now are looking at two must-fill positions in DE and CB. No way around it...No excuse for the DE position to NOT have been filled by now.
2:58pm, March 26, 2009
buc13jcs
Buc47
I completely disagree, Thank God...
I don't agree with building a team through free agency....I.E.-->Raiders, Redskins, etc.
A team is built through the draft and few FA's...I.E.-->Steelers, Giants, etc.
Canty would've been good, but who knows if he would translated into a 4-3...Who are these great CB's that were out there???Other than Asomugha ( i know I butchered his name but you know who he is don't ya) who was a must have, GREER? Give me a break...
Winslow, Ward, Bryant, Philips, Crowell, Nugent...I'dsay Dominik and the gang are on track...
I completely disagree, Thank God...
I don't agree with building a team through free agency....I.E.-->Raiders, Redskins, etc.
A team is built through the draft and few FA's...I.E.-->Steelers, Giants, etc.
Canty would've been good, but who knows if he would translated into a 4-3...Who are these great CB's that were out there???Other than Asomugha ( i know I butchered his name but you know who he is don't ya) who was a must have, GREER? Give me a break...
Winslow, Ward, Bryant, Philips, Crowell, Nugent...I'dsay Dominik and the gang are on track...
3:34pm, March 26, 2009
bucfan47
buc13jcs- Remember, I'm not talking offensive side of the ball. And I'm also not saying Dominik has not done a good job. See above.
I think he's done a good job with the time in which he's had to work. I'm saying the Buccaneers (due to time constraints) did not address the defensive side of the ball like they wanted.
That's all I'm saying. I blame the owners for the entire reason we were not able to land anyone else on defense.
Letting 5 players leave on defense while only signing one new player is not what any team looks at doing in free agency when there were other players that could have helped the team.
I'm not saying building a team through free agency is the way to go either, you're missing the point. The Buccaneers expressed interest in all the above players I mentioned. You may not think they would have fit in the system, but they did. They expressed interest.
How many of them did they sign? Of the above names, NONE.
That's all I'm saying. I wouldn't make excuses for ownership here man. They are too blame for the Bucs not coming away with another defensive player...
Now the Buccaneers are going to be forced to address the defensive side of the ball in the draft. There is no other way around it..
And all I'm saying is wouldn't it have been nice had Dominik been able to have the time to make another one or two moves on defense?
Can you imagine the Bucs draft strategy then? They could have been able to take Harvin, possibly Kenny Britt or Heyward-Bey at the WR position, they could have went CB with Davis and not blinked an eye...That's all I'm saying...
It's like you're trying to make excuses for the owners though Buc13? Not sure why you aren't onboard with the FACT the coaches were under-manned for weeks after their promotion...
PR has written 2 or 3 articles on the facts supporting this...They had ZERO help. Dominik was IT, literally.
I think he's done a good job with the time in which he's had to work. I'm saying the Buccaneers (due to time constraints) did not address the defensive side of the ball like they wanted.
That's all I'm saying. I blame the owners for the entire reason we were not able to land anyone else on defense.
Letting 5 players leave on defense while only signing one new player is not what any team looks at doing in free agency when there were other players that could have helped the team.
I'm not saying building a team through free agency is the way to go either, you're missing the point. The Buccaneers expressed interest in all the above players I mentioned. You may not think they would have fit in the system, but they did. They expressed interest.
How many of them did they sign? Of the above names, NONE.
That's all I'm saying. I wouldn't make excuses for ownership here man. They are too blame for the Bucs not coming away with another defensive player...
Now the Buccaneers are going to be forced to address the defensive side of the ball in the draft. There is no other way around it..
And all I'm saying is wouldn't it have been nice had Dominik been able to have the time to make another one or two moves on defense?
Can you imagine the Bucs draft strategy then? They could have been able to take Harvin, possibly Kenny Britt or Heyward-Bey at the WR position, they could have went CB with Davis and not blinked an eye...That's all I'm saying...
It's like you're trying to make excuses for the owners though Buc13? Not sure why you aren't onboard with the FACT the coaches were under-manned for weeks after their promotion...
PR has written 2 or 3 articles on the facts supporting this...They had ZERO help. Dominik was IT, literally.
4:35pm, March 26, 2009
bucdiesel
I gotta admit 47 is right. PR did a report & Dominik didn't have the manpower to do all he wanted. In the past Allen brought in the players & Gruden wine & dined them. Mark didnt have that option . He''s only one man and players aren't going to sit on their hands when there's money to be got. It just sucks that we had $64 mil to play with & we only gave out $3 mil in the form of a signing bonus. Players want money upfront especially if they've proven they can play in this league. 47 is right, this is the owners fault from the timing of the firings to the tight purse strings. I think he's right that the defense has taken a step back but I believe we have a good coaching staff. We're not the Lions or Chiefs. If we had signed aone of the defensive linemen & cornerbacks available & kept June then this draft would be totally different ! I think this team will be the '00 Rams, offense will be awsome but the defense is just going to give some games away. The only way that this team does good is if Black, Hayes, Petersen & Moore play to the abilities that the coaches seem to have such confidence . Hope they don't pull a Jovan Haye show up one season then disappear the next!
5:16pm, March 26, 2009
makski
Boy, did this stray away from Josh Johnson or what!?!?
First of all, I have to say that I really like this guy a lot, but I like Luke too!! I think that they BOTH just need a chance to play. The knock on Luke was always that he didn't have the experience, but at the same time, no one would put him in either!!! How can you get experience if you never get in the game? I think that both Luke and Johnson can be good if they just get some playing time to learn the NFL.
Now, on to the sticky stuff...
I don't really agree with bucfan47 all the way. He does have some valid points, but, There are some things that I do not agree with. I do not remember the bucs really showing much interest in Canty. There were some posts about him, but I don't remember the TEAM ever really being interested. I could be wrong, but I don't remember that much interest. Which is why I don't think that the bucs are regretting not getting him.
Also, you mention quite often that the bucs, "have not addressed the defensive side of the ball like they wanted." HOW in the world do YOU KNOW what THEY wanted??? I do not think that you are employed by the bucs so you really do not know what they are looking for or what exactly they wanted. For all we know, maybe this free agency period has gone EXACTLY how the Bucs had planned. Since you like to refer to prior PR articles, do you remember the one where they said that there was much more VALUE in the draft on the DEFENSIVE side of the ball and much better OFFENSIVE value in FA? Maybe that is why the Bucs have addressed the offense now and might look to go defensive in the draft. They might even still draft some offense if a player they like falls to them,but I bet they concentrate on the D.
One last thing, you mentioned that IF they were to get a defensive FA or two, they could go for anything they wanted in the draft. You said "imagine their draft strategy" had "Dominik been able to have the time to make another one or two moves on defense." You said that they could have drafted Harvin, Britt, Heyward-bey or CB Davis. You said that they could have drafted Davis "without blinking an eye." I have news for you, they might draft Davis without blinking an eye anyway!! He is an excellent corner and would pair up really well with Talib. They could draft the DE with their next pick. They might be really happy with the DT's that they have now and would only draft one if he fell to them. Last I checked, when it is your turn to pick, you can take ANYONE you want. The fans do not have to like it as long as you get the guy that you want as an organization. I remember when a very good majority of the fans wanted us to take WR Williams from USC with our first pick in the draft. We didn't, a lot of fans were upset, and look at how that turned out.
Just relax, be a fan, try not to be so negative towards the owners or the team or their direction, and try to be positive. GO BUCS ! ! ! ! !
First of all, I have to say that I really like this guy a lot, but I like Luke too!! I think that they BOTH just need a chance to play. The knock on Luke was always that he didn't have the experience, but at the same time, no one would put him in either!!! How can you get experience if you never get in the game? I think that both Luke and Johnson can be good if they just get some playing time to learn the NFL.
Now, on to the sticky stuff...
I don't really agree with bucfan47 all the way. He does have some valid points, but, There are some things that I do not agree with. I do not remember the bucs really showing much interest in Canty. There were some posts about him, but I don't remember the TEAM ever really being interested. I could be wrong, but I don't remember that much interest. Which is why I don't think that the bucs are regretting not getting him.
Also, you mention quite often that the bucs, "have not addressed the defensive side of the ball like they wanted." HOW in the world do YOU KNOW what THEY wanted??? I do not think that you are employed by the bucs so you really do not know what they are looking for or what exactly they wanted. For all we know, maybe this free agency period has gone EXACTLY how the Bucs had planned. Since you like to refer to prior PR articles, do you remember the one where they said that there was much more VALUE in the draft on the DEFENSIVE side of the ball and much better OFFENSIVE value in FA? Maybe that is why the Bucs have addressed the offense now and might look to go defensive in the draft. They might even still draft some offense if a player they like falls to them,but I bet they concentrate on the D.
One last thing, you mentioned that IF they were to get a defensive FA or two, they could go for anything they wanted in the draft. You said "imagine their draft strategy" had "Dominik been able to have the time to make another one or two moves on defense." You said that they could have drafted Harvin, Britt, Heyward-bey or CB Davis. You said that they could have drafted Davis "without blinking an eye." I have news for you, they might draft Davis without blinking an eye anyway!! He is an excellent corner and would pair up really well with Talib. They could draft the DE with their next pick. They might be really happy with the DT's that they have now and would only draft one if he fell to them. Last I checked, when it is your turn to pick, you can take ANYONE you want. The fans do not have to like it as long as you get the guy that you want as an organization. I remember when a very good majority of the fans wanted us to take WR Williams from USC with our first pick in the draft. We didn't, a lot of fans were upset, and look at how that turned out.
Just relax, be a fan, try not to be so negative towards the owners or the team or their direction, and try to be positive. GO BUCS ! ! ! ! !
11:17pm, March 26, 2009
bucfan47
Makski - Look, your stretching what I'm saying alittle bit and it sounds like you don't understand where I'm coming from on this...
The owners caused the problem with the team guys, ok?
PR posted the names of players the Buccaneers had interest in acquiring. They have also written an article given the breakdown of the Buccaneers front office and what Dominik was busy doing during th first couple days of free agency.
It's been shown they were understaffed and undermanned and have told all of us that Dominik was basically by himself during free agency.
Again, if you followed free agency you would have seen the names listed by PR that the team was highly coveting around the league.
And makski, of course they didn't show Canty any interest in the beginning, he was signed shortly after free agency began. Remember what has been detailed that Dominik was busy doing during the first day of free agency? Remember, he was busy in a bidding war with Washington for Albert Haynesworth, he was busy finalizing a trade that brought in Kellen Winslow, he was busy re-signing Michael Clayton, which that deal was finalized on March 1, two days after free agency started..If I had to guess you could probably throw in the fact he was very busy just trying to get settled into the office and it's been shown and brilliantly pointed out by PR just how much behind schedule and ill-prepared our front office was by PR.
The team was understaffed and was not prepared at the beginning of free agency. It's exactly why no visits were scheduled, and people were left scratching their heads as to why Tampa had not brought anyone into One Buccaneer Place for a visit..
Does that sound like the Buccaneers executing a plan? I'm not saying they don't have a plan makski, but I'm saying the plan they deserved to be able to attempt to carry out was never realistic due to time constraints, manpower, and it's all because of the owners and their decision to pull the plug one month too late.
Sure they may take Davis in round one, or they may take English or Johnson or even trade out of the first round.
It doesn't change the fact they did not address the defense like they wanted too in free agency.
How do I know? Just take a look at what they attempted to do after they missed the first wave of free agency. They desperately tried to sign a CB and pursued multiple LB's. What's that tell you? They brought in Angelo Crowell, Jabari Greer, signed Crowell (fortunately), and signed the LB from Denver.
They were as aggressive in the 2nd wave of free agency as they possibly could have been. There were 5-6 players they actively pursued, but only came away with one in Crowell.
That's how I know makski. I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, but I follow this team very closely and it's not hard to observe that they've done. The defense right now needs addressing, in multiple areas and they know it. They tried there best I'm sure, to sign other players but for whatever reason it didn't work out.
That's how it goes...Now they have one more opportunity to address the defense via the draft, and I'm hoping they hit a home run on every pick. I know the statistics on the draft, and it's not in Tampa's favor that they hit on more than 3 of these guys....I'm a die-hard fan, just like everyone on here and I want the team to do great, but at the same time I'm not an idiot and I know these owners have set our team back tremendously.
Don't lose sight of the fact that happened and now our team if being forced to draft defense in the draft. I'll be shocked if 4 of the 6 selections are not dedicated to the defensive side of the ball. That's how bad it must be addressed.
The owners caused the problem with the team guys, ok?
PR posted the names of players the Buccaneers had interest in acquiring. They have also written an article given the breakdown of the Buccaneers front office and what Dominik was busy doing during th first couple days of free agency.
It's been shown they were understaffed and undermanned and have told all of us that Dominik was basically by himself during free agency.
Again, if you followed free agency you would have seen the names listed by PR that the team was highly coveting around the league.
And makski, of course they didn't show Canty any interest in the beginning, he was signed shortly after free agency began. Remember what has been detailed that Dominik was busy doing during the first day of free agency? Remember, he was busy in a bidding war with Washington for Albert Haynesworth, he was busy finalizing a trade that brought in Kellen Winslow, he was busy re-signing Michael Clayton, which that deal was finalized on March 1, two days after free agency started..If I had to guess you could probably throw in the fact he was very busy just trying to get settled into the office and it's been shown and brilliantly pointed out by PR just how much behind schedule and ill-prepared our front office was by PR.
The team was understaffed and was not prepared at the beginning of free agency. It's exactly why no visits were scheduled, and people were left scratching their heads as to why Tampa had not brought anyone into One Buccaneer Place for a visit..
Does that sound like the Buccaneers executing a plan? I'm not saying they don't have a plan makski, but I'm saying the plan they deserved to be able to attempt to carry out was never realistic due to time constraints, manpower, and it's all because of the owners and their decision to pull the plug one month too late.
Sure they may take Davis in round one, or they may take English or Johnson or even trade out of the first round.
It doesn't change the fact they did not address the defense like they wanted too in free agency.
How do I know? Just take a look at what they attempted to do after they missed the first wave of free agency. They desperately tried to sign a CB and pursued multiple LB's. What's that tell you? They brought in Angelo Crowell, Jabari Greer, signed Crowell (fortunately), and signed the LB from Denver.
They were as aggressive in the 2nd wave of free agency as they possibly could have been. There were 5-6 players they actively pursued, but only came away with one in Crowell.
That's how I know makski. I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, but I follow this team very closely and it's not hard to observe that they've done. The defense right now needs addressing, in multiple areas and they know it. They tried there best I'm sure, to sign other players but for whatever reason it didn't work out.
That's how it goes...Now they have one more opportunity to address the defense via the draft, and I'm hoping they hit a home run on every pick. I know the statistics on the draft, and it's not in Tampa's favor that they hit on more than 3 of these guys....I'm a die-hard fan, just like everyone on here and I want the team to do great, but at the same time I'm not an idiot and I know these owners have set our team back tremendously.
Don't lose sight of the fact that happened and now our team if being forced to draft defense in the draft. I'll be shocked if 4 of the 6 selections are not dedicated to the defensive side of the ball. That's how bad it must be addressed.
12:14am, March 27, 2009
scubog
Typical Bucfan47 rant that has nothing to do with the article and everything about his agenda. I don't understand why you others keep up these on-line arguments with him when you should realize by now that he is the all-knowing, nothing to do all day (see how his posts continue throughout the day) self-anointed sage of the Pewter Report.Com site.
Out of all of the free agent players available , I would think the Bucs might have interest in maybe as many as twenty. I wouldn't think it would be too difficult for Mark to make ten calls and Doug make another ten to let an agent know they want to sign up their player(s). Heck, if they were so desperate I'm sure good ol Bucfan47 would have made a few calls to the players he so wants on the team.
Do you really think that if the Bucs or any other team really sought a player they would be prevented from doing so because when the agent called to pimp his player all Dominik could do was yell, "Can someone get that?" Then again, maybe the phone lines at One Buc were tied up by the bill collectors looking for Brian and Joel.
Out of all of the free agent players available , I would think the Bucs might have interest in maybe as many as twenty. I wouldn't think it would be too difficult for Mark to make ten calls and Doug make another ten to let an agent know they want to sign up their player(s). Heck, if they were so desperate I'm sure good ol Bucfan47 would have made a few calls to the players he so wants on the team.
Do you really think that if the Bucs or any other team really sought a player they would be prevented from doing so because when the agent called to pimp his player all Dominik could do was yell, "Can someone get that?" Then again, maybe the phone lines at One Buc were tied up by the bill collectors looking for Brian and Joel.
6:26am, March 27, 2009
bucfan47
Your entitled to your opinoins scu-man, however off they may be. I'm telling you I'm correct. Eventually, one day down the road, it will come out and you'll see that during free agency they were severly handicapped from Day 1.
Not sure why you have a subscription to PR if you don't trust their reports. They all but told you how handicapped Dominik was from Day 1. Do you think it's merely coincedence that the Bucs did not have any visits lined up at the beginning of free agency?
Think that was by choice? No. I've told you above what he was busy doing....It's been written about by PR and it's fact. It's not hard to trace the steps by just going back and looking at what was discussed in the media. You act like negogiating with players takes two minutes...It can take hours and hours to get a deal done, sometimes days...Are you kidding me?
You think Dominik can call up a free agent, tell him we're interested and somehow they just magically get off the phone in 10 minutes and they've already worked out a deal and setup a visit? haha..
These phone calls are serious. You have to be a salesman. These agents and players aren't messing around. The agents want what's best for their clients. Dominik does not strike me as having an aggressive mentality which could explain why visits and deals weren't done.
I tell you some of you just will NEVER understand.
Not sure why you have a subscription to PR if you don't trust their reports. They all but told you how handicapped Dominik was from Day 1. Do you think it's merely coincedence that the Bucs did not have any visits lined up at the beginning of free agency?
Think that was by choice? No. I've told you above what he was busy doing....It's been written about by PR and it's fact. It's not hard to trace the steps by just going back and looking at what was discussed in the media. You act like negogiating with players takes two minutes...It can take hours and hours to get a deal done, sometimes days...Are you kidding me?
You think Dominik can call up a free agent, tell him we're interested and somehow they just magically get off the phone in 10 minutes and they've already worked out a deal and setup a visit? haha..
These phone calls are serious. You have to be a salesman. These agents and players aren't messing around. The agents want what's best for their clients. Dominik does not strike me as having an aggressive mentality which could explain why visits and deals weren't done.
I tell you some of you just will NEVER understand.
8:31am, March 27, 2009
orlandobucsfan
Just five words: McCown QB of the Future!!!
9:45am, March 27, 2009
buc13jcs
buc47
during this economic struggle every team in the league has been functioning at less than full capacity...So yes he was under undermanned, so were half the other GM's....
How can you be so pretentious? Why are you the only one that "GETS" it?...
Players have visits all the time it does not mean that the team lost them when they leave to visit another team, or that they were even interested in coming here when they came to "visit"...There are millions of dollars involved in these deals, and therefore posturing is part of the elaborate dance that goes on between Fa's and the teams that flirt with them.
You can not honestly believe that every player that comes for a visit is a player that Raheem and Dominik are chomping at the bit to sign...Can you?...
Who are you to tell me that you know more than me...Do you work in the front office, are you an inside media member, do you work for PR...?
NO...
You are just like us you read PR you look and read the same stuff us passionate bucs fans do...
But only you are right?...
during this economic struggle every team in the league has been functioning at less than full capacity...So yes he was under undermanned, so were half the other GM's....
How can you be so pretentious? Why are you the only one that "GETS" it?...
Players have visits all the time it does not mean that the team lost them when they leave to visit another team, or that they were even interested in coming here when they came to "visit"...There are millions of dollars involved in these deals, and therefore posturing is part of the elaborate dance that goes on between Fa's and the teams that flirt with them.
You can not honestly believe that every player that comes for a visit is a player that Raheem and Dominik are chomping at the bit to sign...Can you?...
Who are you to tell me that you know more than me...Do you work in the front office, are you an inside media member, do you work for PR...?
NO...
You are just like us you read PR you look and read the same stuff us passionate bucs fans do...
But only you are right?...
5:45pm, March 27, 2009
bucfan47
buc13jcs - I don't even know where to start addressing your comments. What are you talking about? Really?
Are you talking about from a money standpoint? Other GM's are strapped for cash like the reports suggest that we may be? I'm not sure what you're point is at all. Sorry.
Yes, I can trust that Dominik and Morris are interested in acquiring every free agent they bring in the doors at One Buccaneer Place. Why would you not? That would be wasting their time.
I'm not talking about any of that. I'm talking about manpower, not money. Not one other team in the league had their staff torn apart like ours. They fired over 20+ members, including the team lawyer, who was highly regarding, as well as many other supporting staff that help with things behind the scenes.
The Bucs were short-handed from "a human being" standpoint. They didn't have enough people setup to handle free agency. That's the FACTS.
According to PR, the team was sub'ing out the day-to-day operations to a local law office. They may/may not have even had the manpower or knowledge at this local office to handle more than "X" number of contracts at one time. We don't know how big this law office was that is/was helping the team at the time.
What we do know is that according to PR Dominik was by himself during free agency. There were no one else there to help him make calls. Maybe Doug Williams. I have not heard Doug Williams make a sales pitch but I would assume he'd be ok.
Raheem Morris? Have you heard him talk? He's not the best with words. Dominik was probably it in terms of salesman and knowledge that we had at the beginning of free agency that had the know-how to realize what it took to get any type of deals done.
Regarding knowledge, I'll let the readers determine who's got more knowledge buc13. I do not write on here to see who's more intelligent, I come here to share ideas and to help others learn. You may not benefit from my thoughts, but others have and will continue too.
I'm not here to bash the team but the team is in trouble in my eyes.
Are you talking about from a money standpoint? Other GM's are strapped for cash like the reports suggest that we may be? I'm not sure what you're point is at all. Sorry.
Yes, I can trust that Dominik and Morris are interested in acquiring every free agent they bring in the doors at One Buccaneer Place. Why would you not? That would be wasting their time.
I'm not talking about any of that. I'm talking about manpower, not money. Not one other team in the league had their staff torn apart like ours. They fired over 20+ members, including the team lawyer, who was highly regarding, as well as many other supporting staff that help with things behind the scenes.
The Bucs were short-handed from "a human being" standpoint. They didn't have enough people setup to handle free agency. That's the FACTS.
According to PR, the team was sub'ing out the day-to-day operations to a local law office. They may/may not have even had the manpower or knowledge at this local office to handle more than "X" number of contracts at one time. We don't know how big this law office was that is/was helping the team at the time.
What we do know is that according to PR Dominik was by himself during free agency. There were no one else there to help him make calls. Maybe Doug Williams. I have not heard Doug Williams make a sales pitch but I would assume he'd be ok.
Raheem Morris? Have you heard him talk? He's not the best with words. Dominik was probably it in terms of salesman and knowledge that we had at the beginning of free agency that had the know-how to realize what it took to get any type of deals done.
Regarding knowledge, I'll let the readers determine who's got more knowledge buc13. I do not write on here to see who's more intelligent, I come here to share ideas and to help others learn. You may not benefit from my thoughts, but others have and will continue too.
I'm not here to bash the team but the team is in trouble in my eyes.
7:44pm, March 27, 2009
buc13jcs
The loss of the team lawyer was huge...
The point I was trying to make was that all most every team has made some pretty big front office cuts...Some bigger than others...
It is common knowledge that teams and players use these visits as leverage...
The player could be doing it because he really does not want to leave, but wants a big contract...So he goes on a few visits...
Teams do the same...They want to put a fire under someones ass, they bring in multiple players at his position...Or if they want to rework a deal w/ a current player who does not want to...They even do these things to blow smoke screens as to what position or players they might take in the draft...
buc47 I know you have your delusions of being a writer, and that you consider your 5000 word rants as your "ARTICLES"...
I wasn't implying to have more knowledge than you I was just wondering why you talk down to everyone? As if you constantly knew something we didn't...
You are a walking contradiction my friend...
You've been sniffed out by several of us several times...
and now I will take scubog's advice and stop feeding into you... For now at least...
The point I was trying to make was that all most every team has made some pretty big front office cuts...Some bigger than others...
It is common knowledge that teams and players use these visits as leverage...
The player could be doing it because he really does not want to leave, but wants a big contract...So he goes on a few visits...
Teams do the same...They want to put a fire under someones ass, they bring in multiple players at his position...Or if they want to rework a deal w/ a current player who does not want to...They even do these things to blow smoke screens as to what position or players they might take in the draft...
buc47 I know you have your delusions of being a writer, and that you consider your 5000 word rants as your "ARTICLES"...
I wasn't implying to have more knowledge than you I was just wondering why you talk down to everyone? As if you constantly knew something we didn't...
You are a walking contradiction my friend...
You've been sniffed out by several of us several times...
and now I will take scubog's advice and stop feeding into you... For now at least...
11:55pm, March 27, 2009
scubog
buc13jcs: I appreciate your comments. Bucfan47 has some idea that if he repeats portions of what he reads somewhere that he has determined supports his underlying agenda, then it is he, and only he who has "the knowledge".
As is often the case, he is condescending in his posts beyond merely stating his differing opinion to the point of insulting anyone whose hope for success of our favorite team is not as clouded as his.
I am a fan of the Buccaneers no matter who is coaching or playing because I live here. I suppose I could be like a lot of people and root for my hometown Steelers when the Bucs are not as successful as we would like them to be; but as a fan you take the good with the bad and hope for the best; not the worst so you can thump your chest because you predicted it.
He takes a piece about Josh Johnson and turns it into his own monologue which I agree with you is his attempt to be on the Pewter Report staff because you know he thinks he knows more than Wolf, Charlie, maybe Jim and almost Scott if only he had the contacts and access they do.
I'm not a big proponent of building a team through free agency. Bucfan47 expected the Bucs to fail to get players available in free agency but it appears to me that the Bucs did as well or better in securing our own players as well as bringing in a select few from outside that can help the team. Because the PR staff wrote that Dominik was limited, Bucfan47 makes out like they were prevented from making any calls at all. But you know, none of us were there to make any observations of what went on. The results of their efforts in my humble opinion are favorable compared to other teams.
Bucfan 47 threw out the name DE Chris Canty as a player the Bucs should have sought but he signed with the Giants. He also threw out the name DE Antonio Smith who signed with Houston. I agree that either one would have been a nice addition, but neither one is Simeon Rice and probably not much better than Stylze.
Bucfan47: The good things you have to say are an indication of your knowledge of the game. But you aren't the only one and your singling out of other posters to call them out is pompous.
Raheem Morris talks fast and maybe isn't the most articulate speaker but it's the credibility of what he says that will count with the players he coaches.
As is often the case, he is condescending in his posts beyond merely stating his differing opinion to the point of insulting anyone whose hope for success of our favorite team is not as clouded as his.
I am a fan of the Buccaneers no matter who is coaching or playing because I live here. I suppose I could be like a lot of people and root for my hometown Steelers when the Bucs are not as successful as we would like them to be; but as a fan you take the good with the bad and hope for the best; not the worst so you can thump your chest because you predicted it.
He takes a piece about Josh Johnson and turns it into his own monologue which I agree with you is his attempt to be on the Pewter Report staff because you know he thinks he knows more than Wolf, Charlie, maybe Jim and almost Scott if only he had the contacts and access they do.
I'm not a big proponent of building a team through free agency. Bucfan47 expected the Bucs to fail to get players available in free agency but it appears to me that the Bucs did as well or better in securing our own players as well as bringing in a select few from outside that can help the team. Because the PR staff wrote that Dominik was limited, Bucfan47 makes out like they were prevented from making any calls at all. But you know, none of us were there to make any observations of what went on. The results of their efforts in my humble opinion are favorable compared to other teams.
Bucfan 47 threw out the name DE Chris Canty as a player the Bucs should have sought but he signed with the Giants. He also threw out the name DE Antonio Smith who signed with Houston. I agree that either one would have been a nice addition, but neither one is Simeon Rice and probably not much better than Stylze.
Bucfan47: The good things you have to say are an indication of your knowledge of the game. But you aren't the only one and your singling out of other posters to call them out is pompous.
Raheem Morris talks fast and maybe isn't the most articulate speaker but it's the credibility of what he says that will count with the players he coaches.
6:40am, March 28, 2009
buc13jcs
Well put scubog...
8:05pm, March 28, 2009
bucfan47
Scublogger - If you think the Buccaneers have done well because let's see, they've resigned some of their own players (expected) and made how many moves in free agency?
Let's count em...
1. Derrick Ward
2. Kellen Winslow - And now we have no 2nd round draft pick.
3. Angelo Crowell
4. Niko Koutouvides
Anymore you want to add? With a league-high $63 million under the cap, we come away with 4 players, 1 via trade.
I'll say this...I think due to what Dominik had to work with, YES, I'll agree he did one hell of a job.
But to say they were great in free agency is a big stretch. That's your take I guess. The signing via free agency mainly were to makeup for the players they cut. Ward for Dunn, Crowell and Koutouvides for the LB's, that's it...
Since you think I'm so negative about the outlook, let's look at my postives thus far.
I like the O-Line, RB core, and I think the Winslow addition was risky but will make life easier while they find a QB. The defensive side of the ball to me has no strategy whatsoever. It was neglected in free agency and that side of the ball ended up being the side left out.
Now they are forced to take risks on playing the "Greenies", and there's alot of them at every position on defense (DT,LB, and CB), and that's about the only part I've not agreed on...
I personally don't feel McCown is the guy, but I'm rooting for him to succeed and hope he does. All I've ever said is that this whole team feels more-so like a team that is about to embark on 1-4 years of hard times.
I'm pulling for them, but to change everything but your jersey's in one off-season is too much for me to see for any team to overcome.
As much as you love to say I'm negative, I'd be this negative towards any team that made this many off-season moves...Why didn't the Glazers just wait until the draft to fire the coaching staff? That's what I don't understand.
Let's count em...
1. Derrick Ward
2. Kellen Winslow - And now we have no 2nd round draft pick.
3. Angelo Crowell
4. Niko Koutouvides
Anymore you want to add? With a league-high $63 million under the cap, we come away with 4 players, 1 via trade.
I'll say this...I think due to what Dominik had to work with, YES, I'll agree he did one hell of a job.
But to say they were great in free agency is a big stretch. That's your take I guess. The signing via free agency mainly were to makeup for the players they cut. Ward for Dunn, Crowell and Koutouvides for the LB's, that's it...
Since you think I'm so negative about the outlook, let's look at my postives thus far.
I like the O-Line, RB core, and I think the Winslow addition was risky but will make life easier while they find a QB. The defensive side of the ball to me has no strategy whatsoever. It was neglected in free agency and that side of the ball ended up being the side left out.
Now they are forced to take risks on playing the "Greenies", and there's alot of them at every position on defense (DT,LB, and CB), and that's about the only part I've not agreed on...
I personally don't feel McCown is the guy, but I'm rooting for him to succeed and hope he does. All I've ever said is that this whole team feels more-so like a team that is about to embark on 1-4 years of hard times.
I'm pulling for them, but to change everything but your jersey's in one off-season is too much for me to see for any team to overcome.
As much as you love to say I'm negative, I'd be this negative towards any team that made this many off-season moves...Why didn't the Glazers just wait until the draft to fire the coaching staff? That's what I don't understand.
9:49pm, March 28, 2009
buc13jcs
Wait till the draft to fire the coaching staff...WOW...
That's brilliant--> that way the new staff that is chosen has absolutely no time to scout draft picks and the other plus is that the new regime gets to be stuck with what ever players the last regime picked up in free agency...
You know... The players the old regime thought would fit in THEIR system...
11:22pm, March 28, 2009
bucfan47
Do none of you get a joke? Help my man buc13 out alittle now.
12:11am, March 29, 2009
scubog
Bucfan47: I thought that was a funny piece of sarcasm and of course "got" your attempt at humor which is a nice change of direction for you.
I don't think signing one's own free agents is "expected" nor do I think signing another teams' players is necessarily an upgrade. I did not say the Bucs have done "well" in free-agency so I don't know the source of that little piece of misinformation. I do think they have been in the middle of the pack and certainly not as bleak as has been inferred by some. I'm not a big fan of building a team through free-agency. I think it's a way to fill-in for need but only if the right player is available and not just for the sake of being active or taking stop-gap players like Garner, Steussie, Deese and others. Teams spend a lot of money every year with questionable return on their investment. Their fans are more let down when those players flame out. We've had our share of those types here.
Again, I have no issue with your sometimes negative slant. It's just that it seems more hoped-for on your part than an observation of impending doom. It's a wish you seem to have to justify your displeasure over the Allen/Gruden firing that I don't quite understand why you haven't yet moved past.
What's done is done. We can't keep fretting over the Bert Emanuel no catch, that may have cost us the Superbowl in 1999 and we can't stay bitter day after day over the Allen/Gruden dismissal.
Anyone that has been of the Bucs since 1976 knows a dismal team and a cheap ownership when they see one.
I don't think signing one's own free agents is "expected" nor do I think signing another teams' players is necessarily an upgrade. I did not say the Bucs have done "well" in free-agency so I don't know the source of that little piece of misinformation. I do think they have been in the middle of the pack and certainly not as bleak as has been inferred by some. I'm not a big fan of building a team through free-agency. I think it's a way to fill-in for need but only if the right player is available and not just for the sake of being active or taking stop-gap players like Garner, Steussie, Deese and others. Teams spend a lot of money every year with questionable return on their investment. Their fans are more let down when those players flame out. We've had our share of those types here.
Again, I have no issue with your sometimes negative slant. It's just that it seems more hoped-for on your part than an observation of impending doom. It's a wish you seem to have to justify your displeasure over the Allen/Gruden firing that I don't quite understand why you haven't yet moved past.
What's done is done. We can't keep fretting over the Bert Emanuel no catch, that may have cost us the Superbowl in 1999 and we can't stay bitter day after day over the Allen/Gruden dismissal.
Anyone that has been of the Bucs since 1976 knows a dismal team and a cheap ownership when they see one.
12:52pm, March 29, 2009
buc13jcs
Buc47
Hilarious...That just goes to show how I can't differentiate between your infinite psycho-babble and your (whacky, zany, insert what ever superlative) "JOKES"...
Hilarious...That just goes to show how I can't differentiate between your infinite psycho-babble and your (whacky, zany, insert what ever superlative) "JOKES"...
7:16pm, March 29, 2009
buc13jcs
Scubog
Please don't talk about THE BERT EMMANUEL play, please...
few things in my fandom hurt more...That's right up there w/the Peyton's comeback on us, what a hellish monday night...When they called that penalty on the field goal...OH God that still hurts...
Please don't talk about THE BERT EMMANUEL play, please...
few things in my fandom hurt more...That's right up there w/the Peyton's comeback on us, what a hellish monday night...When they called that penalty on the field goal...OH God that still hurts...
7:22pm, March 29, 2009
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