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Faine Feels New Offense Fits Bucs' O-line |
 Center Jeff Faine enters his second season with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers (Cliff Welch) |
Bucs center Jeff Faine doesn't like how his group finished the 2008 season. The offensive line's goal is to dominate on a consistent basis, but they're going to have to do that in Jeff Jagodzinski's new scheme.
Several players have been participating in Tampa Bay's voluntary workouts in preparation for the Buccaneers' mandatory mini-camp, which will be held at One Buc Place next week.
That includes Bucs center Jeff Faine, who made his debut in Tampa Bay last year after becoming the highest-paid center in the NFL with a six-year, $37.5 million contract he inked on the first day of free agency in 2008.
Faine, who turns 28 next month, quickly established himself as a leader in Tampa Bay's locker room last year and went on to start all 16 regular season games for the Bucs.
But Tampa Bay's season ended earlier than Faine and his teammates had planned. After starting 9-3, the Bucs suffered a four-game losing streak in December, finishing the season 9-7 and missing the playoffs.
That collapse prompted several changes, including the firing of head coach Jon Gruden and general manager Bruce Allen, and promotions for Raheem Morris and Mark Dominik.
Although Morris hired a new offensive coordinator in Jeff Jagodzinski, Tampa Bay's offensive line remains intact.
In fact, the offensive line, which is one of the league's youngest, is the unit the Bucs are building their offense around.
It's early, but Faine likes what he has seen from Jagodzinski and new offensive line coach Pete Mangurian, who are in the process of implementing Tampa Bay's zone blocking scheme.
"I think it's right up a lot of our guys' alleys," Faine said of the zone blocking scheme. "We have a pretty athletic offensive line. I think our skills fit this a little better than some of the things we were doing in the past. It gets us out in space and things like that. I think we should take advantage of this while we have it."
Faine and Co. will be required to run the football quite a bit in Jagodzinski's system. Tampa Bay ran the ball well through the first half of the season. At one point, Earnest Graham and Warrick Dunn were each on pace to rush for 1,000 yards, but then injuries depleted Tampa Bay's backfield.
The Bucs rushed for 1,837 yards (4.1 avg.) and 13 touchdowns in 2008, but failed to produce a 100-yard rusher after Week 6 and allowed a total of 32 sacks, although some of those breakdowns cannot be attributed to the O-line.
The drop off in the running game was one of the reasons why the Bucs released Dunn and signed Giants RB Derrick Ward, who eclipsed the 1,000-yard mark last year.
Faine believes the Bucs have the weapons to have great success in the zone blocking system.
"I watched a little bit of his tape a few weeks ago when we picked him up," Faine said of Ward. "I knew they had a three-headed monster in New York and didn't pay much attention, but after watching the tape he looks pretty good.
"I'm excited to get Earnest Graham back, too. Some of the more fun games I was a part of were blocking for Earnest and watching him do his thing. Hopefully we can get Cadillac [Williams] back on the field, too, because he showed some great things there towards the end of the season before he got hurt. I am excited about the potential of that position."
A former first-round pick with Cleveland, Faine is entering his seventh NFL season. The Bucs will have a new starting quarterback under center with the departure of Jeff Garcia and re-signing of Luke McCown.
Faine feels McCown, second-year QB Josh Johnson and veteran Brian Griese will have a stiff competition this offseason.
"I think those guys are fully capable," Faine said of Tampa Bay's quarterbacks. "I'm impressed with Josh's growth from when he first got here. When he first got here he was hesitant to say the snap count, and now he's taking good control of the offense. From what I've seen so far he's definitely grown a little bit and definitely has matured.
"Luke is steady. He's showing some confidence right now that I haven't seen out of him since I've been back here in Tampa and especially when I was with him in Cleveland. We still have Griese, too. He is capable of moving this team as well. I'm excited. It's going to be a good competition."
Tampa Bay's starting offensive line consists of two former first-round draft picks (Faine and Davin Joseph), two second-round selections (Arron Sears and Jeremy Trueblood) and one undrafted free agent (Donald Penn). Bucs 2008 third-round pick, guard Jeremy Zuttah, is also in the mix.
Some believe this unit is the most talented offensive line Tampa Bay has ever fielded in its franchise history.
But Faine knows Tampa Bay's young, but talented offensive line has plenty of room for improvement.
"I don't want to say we lacked it before, but the one thing we had all the way across the board was a bite," Faine said of his fellow offensive linemen. "There was a bite in all of us. I've been on quite a few offensive lines where there are 2-3 guys that like to get after it, and then there are a few guys that just do what is necessary to get through to get the job done. With our offensive line, it's not just about getting the job done. It's taking it to that next level. We want to get the whole defense out of their game because all they are thinking about is what we're doing to them. That's something I appreciate about this offensive line tremendously.
"Looking back on it I feel like we didn't finish the way we wanted to as a group. There were spots where we did show what we could do, but we didn't do it every week. The Bears game was a great example of that. We threw the ball over 60 times in that game and didn't allow a sack. But then we went to Denver and played terribly. You have to do it week-in and week-out and finish the season like we should have. I think we made some tremendous progress from where we were, but we need to be consistent. That's something we need to focus on this year."
That includes Bucs center Jeff Faine, who made his debut in Tampa Bay last year after becoming the highest-paid center in the NFL with a six-year, $37.5 million contract he inked on the first day of free agency in 2008.
Faine, who turns 28 next month, quickly established himself as a leader in Tampa Bay's locker room last year and went on to start all 16 regular season games for the Bucs.
But Tampa Bay's season ended earlier than Faine and his teammates had planned. After starting 9-3, the Bucs suffered a four-game losing streak in December, finishing the season 9-7 and missing the playoffs.
That collapse prompted several changes, including the firing of head coach Jon Gruden and general manager Bruce Allen, and promotions for Raheem Morris and Mark Dominik.
Although Morris hired a new offensive coordinator in Jeff Jagodzinski, Tampa Bay's offensive line remains intact.
In fact, the offensive line, which is one of the league's youngest, is the unit the Bucs are building their offense around.
It's early, but Faine likes what he has seen from Jagodzinski and new offensive line coach Pete Mangurian, who are in the process of implementing Tampa Bay's zone blocking scheme.
"I think it's right up a lot of our guys' alleys," Faine said of the zone blocking scheme. "We have a pretty athletic offensive line. I think our skills fit this a little better than some of the things we were doing in the past. It gets us out in space and things like that. I think we should take advantage of this while we have it."
Faine and Co. will be required to run the football quite a bit in Jagodzinski's system. Tampa Bay ran the ball well through the first half of the season. At one point, Earnest Graham and Warrick Dunn were each on pace to rush for 1,000 yards, but then injuries depleted Tampa Bay's backfield.
The Bucs rushed for 1,837 yards (4.1 avg.) and 13 touchdowns in 2008, but failed to produce a 100-yard rusher after Week 6 and allowed a total of 32 sacks, although some of those breakdowns cannot be attributed to the O-line.
The drop off in the running game was one of the reasons why the Bucs released Dunn and signed Giants RB Derrick Ward, who eclipsed the 1,000-yard mark last year.
Faine believes the Bucs have the weapons to have great success in the zone blocking system.
"I watched a little bit of his tape a few weeks ago when we picked him up," Faine said of Ward. "I knew they had a three-headed monster in New York and didn't pay much attention, but after watching the tape he looks pretty good.
"I'm excited to get Earnest Graham back, too. Some of the more fun games I was a part of were blocking for Earnest and watching him do his thing. Hopefully we can get Cadillac [Williams] back on the field, too, because he showed some great things there towards the end of the season before he got hurt. I am excited about the potential of that position."
A former first-round pick with Cleveland, Faine is entering his seventh NFL season. The Bucs will have a new starting quarterback under center with the departure of Jeff Garcia and re-signing of Luke McCown.
Faine feels McCown, second-year QB Josh Johnson and veteran Brian Griese will have a stiff competition this offseason.
"I think those guys are fully capable," Faine said of Tampa Bay's quarterbacks. "I'm impressed with Josh's growth from when he first got here. When he first got here he was hesitant to say the snap count, and now he's taking good control of the offense. From what I've seen so far he's definitely grown a little bit and definitely has matured.
"Luke is steady. He's showing some confidence right now that I haven't seen out of him since I've been back here in Tampa and especially when I was with him in Cleveland. We still have Griese, too. He is capable of moving this team as well. I'm excited. It's going to be a good competition."
Tampa Bay's starting offensive line consists of two former first-round draft picks (Faine and Davin Joseph), two second-round selections (Arron Sears and Jeremy Trueblood) and one undrafted free agent (Donald Penn). Bucs 2008 third-round pick, guard Jeremy Zuttah, is also in the mix.
Some believe this unit is the most talented offensive line Tampa Bay has ever fielded in its franchise history.
But Faine knows Tampa Bay's young, but talented offensive line has plenty of room for improvement.
"I don't want to say we lacked it before, but the one thing we had all the way across the board was a bite," Faine said of his fellow offensive linemen. "There was a bite in all of us. I've been on quite a few offensive lines where there are 2-3 guys that like to get after it, and then there are a few guys that just do what is necessary to get through to get the job done. With our offensive line, it's not just about getting the job done. It's taking it to that next level. We want to get the whole defense out of their game because all they are thinking about is what we're doing to them. That's something I appreciate about this offensive line tremendously.
"Looking back on it I feel like we didn't finish the way we wanted to as a group. There were spots where we did show what we could do, but we didn't do it every week. The Bears game was a great example of that. We threw the ball over 60 times in that game and didn't allow a sack. But then we went to Denver and played terribly. You have to do it week-in and week-out and finish the season like we should have. I think we made some tremendous progress from where we were, but we need to be consistent. That's something we need to focus on this year."
Comments
Horse
Yeah, I'm getting excited. I think we will have a good team despite "the usual suspects" who think we are awful.
3:59pm, March 26, 2009
mtnbucman
ZB may be why they kept Mahan. Zuttah should excel in this scheme. Sears does well when he pulls, but I'm concerned about him being able to stay healthy in this scheme. I also have some doubts as to whether or not T-Blood can get low enough to make certain blocks. Smaller quicker guys are going to blow right around him.
4:22pm, March 26, 2009
bucfan47
What do you want them to say horse, we suck?
4:38pm, March 26, 2009
bucdiesel
Ha Ha Bucfan47 thats funny! You know if the offense had the weapons we have this year even with the way the defense collapsed last season we still would have won 3 of those last 4 games. So even if this defense plays like it did the last 4 games (& I seriously doubt it can play worse than that) I still like our chances with this offense. I know, I know new coaches , new scheme but much more simpler which will help with the learning curve. The QB that some just don't give any credit is much more physically talented than Garcia. Just think we wont have to watch any more of our QB jumping to throw over D-linemen!
5:31pm, March 26, 2009
Horse
bucfan47, with all your multiple words that you write, you still come off negative. Life is to short to have to listen to all the reasons why someone can not do better or not expect the best. Give it a rest. You are one of only a few "usual negative suspects. Most of us want the Bucs to do good and we want to believe they can. Do they do it every season? Of course not, but we can still root for them to do better. I am far from perfect, but that doesn't mean that I won't pick myself off the floor and try to do better the next time.
Honestly, your negatvie attitude sucks!
Go Bucs.
Honestly, your negatvie attitude sucks!
Go Bucs.
7:32pm, March 26, 2009
charles.e.scott1
I am so ready for change! I am ready to see some traps, some counters, some misdirections, some cut-backs. I am ready to see our running game explode this season. The excuses need to stop. We need to lead the league in rushing next year.
Then our passing should be efficient and we should be a top 10 offense.
Those are probably unrealistic expectations, but I am so ready to see the BUCS move the ball with consistency.
The NFL is a passing league. But a great running game is still a passers best friend. I hope the O-linemen are athletic enough to execute the zone scheme. I don't know if they are, but we have sure invested a lot in them.
Then our passing should be efficient and we should be a top 10 offense.
Those are probably unrealistic expectations, but I am so ready to see the BUCS move the ball with consistency.
The NFL is a passing league. But a great running game is still a passers best friend. I hope the O-linemen are athletic enough to execute the zone scheme. I don't know if they are, but we have sure invested a lot in them.
7:51pm, March 26, 2009
trapper
I agree with you Horse,every week or 2 Bucfan47 has less He can complain about because the Bucs have added either another coach or player to take care of his latest "problem with the Bucs".Now his down to O line scheme and a couple players missing on D.If i remember correctly Key Johnson was picked up in a trade a couple weeks,maybe a month before the start of pre- season.
The Bucs might get J taylor or trade this years or next years 1st or 2nd round draft choice for a high profile player.I'm sure if we keep our 1st & 3rd picks this year both will be starting.We might trade Alex smith for a 2nd or something.
Until the season starts there's alot that could happen...... maybe nothing happens but why worry about what the Bucs look like today when there not done yet.
I think we look pretty good right now knowing we still have more talent coming this year.
Like i said before, I wont bitch about this new staff or team until there's a real reason to bitch and there really isnt until we see what this team does on the field this year.And even then it's there first year so unless it's a total disaster there's no reason to complain about every little thing someone can dig up on the Bucs to suck until theve had a chance to prove them selves.
Yeah anybody can speak there mind about what ever they want (free speech) but as a Bucs fan who pays for this site to learn about my Bucs,you would think there's atleast one place in the world where you can go and talk with Bucs fans about the New Direction the Bucs are going without somebody coimplaining about the Bucs on just about every post they write.
Give these guys a chance before just bitching every day about something that's wrong with this New Team & Staff before they have even got all of there roster filled yet.
That's what pisses me off and i believe that's what pisses the other positive thinking Buc Fans off on PR.
I GOT MY BUC FLAGS OUT & MY KOOL-AIDE !!
CANT WAIT TO SEE MY NEW TEAM !!!!
GO BUCS !!!!!
The Bucs might get J taylor or trade this years or next years 1st or 2nd round draft choice for a high profile player.I'm sure if we keep our 1st & 3rd picks this year both will be starting.We might trade Alex smith for a 2nd or something.
Until the season starts there's alot that could happen...... maybe nothing happens but why worry about what the Bucs look like today when there not done yet.
I think we look pretty good right now knowing we still have more talent coming this year.
Like i said before, I wont bitch about this new staff or team until there's a real reason to bitch and there really isnt until we see what this team does on the field this year.And even then it's there first year so unless it's a total disaster there's no reason to complain about every little thing someone can dig up on the Bucs to suck until theve had a chance to prove them selves.
Yeah anybody can speak there mind about what ever they want (free speech) but as a Bucs fan who pays for this site to learn about my Bucs,you would think there's atleast one place in the world where you can go and talk with Bucs fans about the New Direction the Bucs are going without somebody coimplaining about the Bucs on just about every post they write.
Give these guys a chance before just bitching every day about something that's wrong with this New Team & Staff before they have even got all of there roster filled yet.
That's what pisses me off and i believe that's what pisses the other positive thinking Buc Fans off on PR.
I GOT MY BUC FLAGS OUT & MY KOOL-AIDE !!
CANT WAIT TO SEE MY NEW TEAM !!!!
GO BUCS !!!!!
8:40pm, March 26, 2009
trapper
I agree with you Horse,every week or 2 Bucfan47 has less He can complain about because the Bucs have added either another coach or player to take care of his latest "problem with the Bucs".Now his down to O line scheme and a couple players missing on D.If i remember correctly Key Johnson was picked up in a trade a couple weeks,maybe a month before the start of pre- season.
The Bucs might get J taylor or trade this years or next years 1st or 2nd round draft choice for a high profile player.I'm sure if we keep our 1st & 3rd picks this year both will be starting.We might trade Alex smith for a 2nd or something.
Until the season starts there's alot that could happen...... maybe nothing happens but why worry about what the Bucs look like today when there not done yet.
I think we look pretty good right now knowing we still have more talent coming this year.
Like i said before, I wont bitch about this new staff or team until there's a real reason to bitch and there really isnt until we see what this team does on the field this year.And even then it's there first year so unless it's a total disaster there's no reason to complain about every little thing someone can dig up on the Bucs to suck until theve had a chance to prove them selves.
Yeah anybody can speak there mind about what ever they want (free speech) but as a Bucs fan who pays for this site to learn about my Bucs,you would think there's atleast one place in the world where you can go and talk with Bucs fans about the New Direction the Bucs are going without somebody coimplaining about the Bucs on just about every post they write.
Give these guys a chance before just bitching every day about something that's wrong with this New Team & Staff before they have even got all of there roster filled yet.
That's what pisses me off and i believe that's what pisses the other positive thinking Buc Fans off on PR.
I GOT MY BUC FLAGS OUT & MY KOOL-AIDE !!
CANT WAIT TO SEE MY NEW TEAM !!!!
GO BUCS !!!!!
The Bucs might get J taylor or trade this years or next years 1st or 2nd round draft choice for a high profile player.I'm sure if we keep our 1st & 3rd picks this year both will be starting.We might trade Alex smith for a 2nd or something.
Until the season starts there's alot that could happen...... maybe nothing happens but why worry about what the Bucs look like today when there not done yet.
I think we look pretty good right now knowing we still have more talent coming this year.
Like i said before, I wont bitch about this new staff or team until there's a real reason to bitch and there really isnt until we see what this team does on the field this year.And even then it's there first year so unless it's a total disaster there's no reason to complain about every little thing someone can dig up on the Bucs to suck until theve had a chance to prove them selves.
Yeah anybody can speak there mind about what ever they want (free speech) but as a Bucs fan who pays for this site to learn about my Bucs,you would think there's atleast one place in the world where you can go and talk with Bucs fans about the New Direction the Bucs are going without somebody coimplaining about the Bucs on just about every post they write.
Give these guys a chance before just bitching every day about something that's wrong with this New Team & Staff before they have even got all of there roster filled yet.
That's what pisses me off and i believe that's what pisses the other positive thinking Buc Fans off on PR.
I GOT MY BUC FLAGS OUT & MY KOOL-AIDE !!
CANT WAIT TO SEE MY NEW TEAM !!!!
GO BUCS !!!!!
8:40pm, March 26, 2009
trapper
Sorry for the double post.
8:42pm, March 26, 2009
bucman23
go to this sight if you are wondering what kind of personnel we need:
http://www.milehighreport.com/2008/7/15/570586/mhr-university-understandi
this makes me think the MOST pressing need we have is a big DT. this also makes why wonder why would we put jermaine phillips at linebacker? if the main purpose is to be fast and funnel the running backs into the middle then wouldnt we want jermaine at safety? quincy black was regarded for his speed out of college, he ran a 4.42 at the combine so it just makes more sense to me to have him paired with angelo cowell at OLB and keep jermaine at safety. sounds like a good plan on paper we have the essentail ingrediant for this with barret ruud at MLB, he is a tackling machine when he is protected by the line. thats my number one concern with this is our defensive line.. it also makes a lot more sense why they cut derrick brooks. theres no way he could still keep up with good running backs 1 on 1 on the outside. he showed that last season. he just wouldnt be a good fit at all in this..
http://www.milehighreport.com/2008/7/15/570586/mhr-university-understandi
this makes me think the MOST pressing need we have is a big DT. this also makes why wonder why would we put jermaine phillips at linebacker? if the main purpose is to be fast and funnel the running backs into the middle then wouldnt we want jermaine at safety? quincy black was regarded for his speed out of college, he ran a 4.42 at the combine so it just makes more sense to me to have him paired with angelo cowell at OLB and keep jermaine at safety. sounds like a good plan on paper we have the essentail ingrediant for this with barret ruud at MLB, he is a tackling machine when he is protected by the line. thats my number one concern with this is our defensive line.. it also makes a lot more sense why they cut derrick brooks. theres no way he could still keep up with good running backs 1 on 1 on the outside. he showed that last season. he just wouldnt be a good fit at all in this..
10:04pm, March 26, 2009
mtnbucman
That report is not entirely accurate but it's pretty close.
The main reason Bates' system failed in Denver is because the players didn't buy into it. The reason they didn't buy into it has been the subject of much debate and rumor. But Shanahan basically pulled the plug in the first half of the season.
Hope this helps:
http://cbs4denver.com/broncos/broncos.jim.bates.2.625640.html
The main reason Bates' system failed in Denver is because the players didn't buy into it. The reason they didn't buy into it has been the subject of much debate and rumor. But Shanahan basically pulled the plug in the first half of the season.
Hope this helps:
http://cbs4denver.com/broncos/broncos.jim.bates.2.625640.html
12:20am, March 27, 2009
architek
Trapper,
I agree with you and Horse but I am not inclined anymore to speak to such foolishness. Those guys morethan likely know nothing about building a team (of any sort), let alone football. My take is that Gruden and staff did not place the players in the favorable positions based on skill sets and did not use all of their available resources. For example, why did it take as long as it did to get Clifton Smith on the field when he was productive in preseason. Why havent the WRs like Stovall and Warren been utilized for their strengths? Or a TE combo like Smith and Stevens should have been more dominate. Well partly the QB but Gruden was so set in his ways that it became just excuses and annual collapse. We are a better team and younger, we are just getting more experience!
Go BUCS!
I agree with you and Horse but I am not inclined anymore to speak to such foolishness. Those guys morethan likely know nothing about building a team (of any sort), let alone football. My take is that Gruden and staff did not place the players in the favorable positions based on skill sets and did not use all of their available resources. For example, why did it take as long as it did to get Clifton Smith on the field when he was productive in preseason. Why havent the WRs like Stovall and Warren been utilized for their strengths? Or a TE combo like Smith and Stevens should have been more dominate. Well partly the QB but Gruden was so set in his ways that it became just excuses and annual collapse. We are a better team and younger, we are just getting more experience!
Go BUCS!
12:27am, March 27, 2009
architek
Trapper,
I agree with you and Horse but I am not inclined anymore to speak to such foolishness. Those guys morethan likely know nothing about building a team (of any sort), let alone football. My take is that Gruden and staff did not place the players in the favorable positions based on skill sets and did not use all of their available resources. For example, why did it take as long as it did to get Clifton Smith on the field when he was productive in preseason. Why havent the WRs like Stovall and Warren been utilized for their strengths? Or a TE combo like Smith and Stevens should have been more dominate. Well partly the QB but Gruden was so set in his ways that it became just excuses and annual collapse. We are a better team and younger, we are just getting more experience!
Go BUCS!
I agree with you and Horse but I am not inclined anymore to speak to such foolishness. Those guys morethan likely know nothing about building a team (of any sort), let alone football. My take is that Gruden and staff did not place the players in the favorable positions based on skill sets and did not use all of their available resources. For example, why did it take as long as it did to get Clifton Smith on the field when he was productive in preseason. Why havent the WRs like Stovall and Warren been utilized for their strengths? Or a TE combo like Smith and Stevens should have been more dominate. Well partly the QB but Gruden was so set in his ways that it became just excuses and annual collapse. We are a better team and younger, we are just getting more experience!
Go BUCS!
12:27am, March 27, 2009
architek
sorry, i too double posted...
12:28am, March 27, 2009
scubog
Thank goodness Bucfan47 didn't double post. I think he must have nodded off. He'll be back today.
6:37am, March 27, 2009
bucfan47
mtnbucman - Interesting take from the players..Is there anything in the statements below we should concerned about? What do you guys think? Below is some statements from the article.
Some players suggested Bates' system didn't take because there was so many new faces on the line and others blamed too much holdover from Coyer's philosophies.
"I just don't think we had any consistency or any confidence at any point in ourselves as players or in the scheme that we were running," defensive back Domonique Foxworth said last week. "I think it's important that we build that into the next season, that we find something that we're good at and we stick with it from start to finish."
Defensive lineman Kenny Peterson, who worked for Bates in Green Bay and benefited from the change in personnel and philosophy as the season progressed, said: "It was unfortunate it didn't work here because I like his system. He has a good system, it's proven, it's tested."
Linebacker Nate Webster said too much youth put the Broncos in a pickle, but Foxworth suggested the problems stemmed from the scheme actually being a hybrid.
"It wasn't 100 percent commitment, I don't think, from Day 1 to the new scheme," he said.
Some players suggested Bates' system didn't take because there was so many new faces on the line and others blamed too much holdover from Coyer's philosophies.
"I just don't think we had any consistency or any confidence at any point in ourselves as players or in the scheme that we were running," defensive back Domonique Foxworth said last week. "I think it's important that we build that into the next season, that we find something that we're good at and we stick with it from start to finish."
Defensive lineman Kenny Peterson, who worked for Bates in Green Bay and benefited from the change in personnel and philosophy as the season progressed, said: "It was unfortunate it didn't work here because I like his system. He has a good system, it's proven, it's tested."
Linebacker Nate Webster said too much youth put the Broncos in a pickle, but Foxworth suggested the problems stemmed from the scheme actually being a hybrid.
"It wasn't 100 percent commitment, I don't think, from Day 1 to the new scheme," he said.
8:08am, March 27, 2009
bucfan47
Hmm....too much youth...I wonder if...Naw...We'll be fine..Our youth is better....
8:09am, March 27, 2009
orlandobucsfan
Faine said all the right things,,,and that's why he's a leader on this team. We all know the Bucs desparately need a DT and it remains to be seen whether they get one. The Phillips experiment is just that...an experiment. I'm glad he's on the team, and there will be a spot for him...especially as the inevitable injuries occur. Let's give the new coaches a chance...they obviously know more than we do!
My only beef so far is the apparent reluctance of Bucs owners to spend money to this point, in spite of all the room under the salary cap. But perhaps like all of us, they're short of cash, and perhaps they will come through with $$ before the season starts.
Although I disagree with the negativity shown lately by bucfan47, it's my opinion that most of his posts in the past (when Gruden was coach) were well thought out and informative.
My only beef so far is the apparent reluctance of Bucs owners to spend money to this point, in spite of all the room under the salary cap. But perhaps like all of us, they're short of cash, and perhaps they will come through with $$ before the season starts.
Although I disagree with the negativity shown lately by bucfan47, it's my opinion that most of his posts in the past (when Gruden was coach) were well thought out and informative.
9:19am, March 27, 2009
bucfan47
Thanks orlando. You would as much as I've been right in the past it would warrant alittle credit and respect, but some of these Bucs fans in here just won't budge. haha...
I'm mad as hell at the owners and making a prediction that the defense will be terrible is like taking candy from a baby. It's not hard. I guess some fans just don't like forecasting, they choose to always talk positive no matter what. That's fine. I'm just not like that.
My beliefs a spade's a spade. I call it like I see it. It's not going out in left field to say this defense will struggle. If anything, that should be expected.
I will be completely surprised and shocked if they finish in the top half. The offense has improved but the most important position (QB) has not. This season is going to be tough to watch...I'm gonna sit through it, but it's not going to be easy.
I'm mad as hell at the owners and making a prediction that the defense will be terrible is like taking candy from a baby. It's not hard. I guess some fans just don't like forecasting, they choose to always talk positive no matter what. That's fine. I'm just not like that.
My beliefs a spade's a spade. I call it like I see it. It's not going out in left field to say this defense will struggle. If anything, that should be expected.
I will be completely surprised and shocked if they finish in the top half. The offense has improved but the most important position (QB) has not. This season is going to be tough to watch...I'm gonna sit through it, but it's not going to be easy.
10:20am, March 27, 2009
trapper
I remember a time when Monte's defence was young too and they were unproven and alot better than last years aging D. Yeah we have no chance of having a good D now that Brooks and K Carter are gone......what will we do....we should just forget even playing this year because we cant win nothing without them.Our offence will suck now that were going to a zone blocking scheme.
I dont think i'll even bother watching the Bucs anymore since we have no chance of being good at all.
Since some have pointed out all the obvious reasons we wont win more than 3 games......if were lucky.
I'm so glad these EXPERTS have saved me the hassel of even hoping we might have a chance to be 3rd place in our division.
I dont think i'll even bother watching the Bucs anymore since we have no chance of being good at all.
Since some have pointed out all the obvious reasons we wont win more than 3 games......if were lucky.
I'm so glad these EXPERTS have saved me the hassel of even hoping we might have a chance to be 3rd place in our division.
10:32am, March 27, 2009
bucman23
bucfan47 read this too:
http://www.milehighreport.com/2008/7/15/570586/mhr-university-understandi
it sounds like a complicated system to learn and it REALLY scares me about our DT.
http://www.milehighreport.com/2008/7/15/570586/mhr-university-understandi
it sounds like a complicated system to learn and it REALLY scares me about our DT.
10:33am, March 27, 2009
trapper
Bucfan47......credit and respect....are you freakin kidding me.
You were going on and on about how Gruden needs a couple players to take this team to the next level.
You also went on and on about how Gruden wont get fired. you directly told me that i was wrong about Gruden and that he would not get fired and that soon i would be proven wrong.
Since the Gruden firing you have cut down the Glazers,cut down Raheem being the head coach(before he hired Jag & Bates)You've cut down Jag,Bates system,the lack of FA signings and on and on and on.
Your just still imbarrassed that you were totally wrong that Gruden would not be fired and your still mad.
You spend all of your time trying to find reason's this team will suck.
It'a a new Coach,Staff,Scheme's and players....of course there unproven.There an easy target for you and your anger over your Guru being fired.
There not even done filling the roster and youv'e been complaining since the day that Gruden got fired.
You do know alot about football....i'll give you that but your on a vendetta to find anything you can to make a case for the NEW BUCS to fail...........and that's f**k'd up.
I hope they come out and kick ass just to prove you wrong.
Just so you cant bath in your own glory of wanting the NEW BUCS to fail so you can say ..."see i was right ....they should have kept Gruden.
You were going on and on about how Gruden needs a couple players to take this team to the next level.
You also went on and on about how Gruden wont get fired. you directly told me that i was wrong about Gruden and that he would not get fired and that soon i would be proven wrong.
Since the Gruden firing you have cut down the Glazers,cut down Raheem being the head coach(before he hired Jag & Bates)You've cut down Jag,Bates system,the lack of FA signings and on and on and on.
Your just still imbarrassed that you were totally wrong that Gruden would not be fired and your still mad.
You spend all of your time trying to find reason's this team will suck.
It'a a new Coach,Staff,Scheme's and players....of course there unproven.There an easy target for you and your anger over your Guru being fired.
There not even done filling the roster and youv'e been complaining since the day that Gruden got fired.
You do know alot about football....i'll give you that but your on a vendetta to find anything you can to make a case for the NEW BUCS to fail...........and that's f**k'd up.
I hope they come out and kick ass just to prove you wrong.
Just so you cant bath in your own glory of wanting the NEW BUCS to fail so you can say ..."see i was right ....they should have kept Gruden.
11:01am, March 27, 2009
bucfish
Has anyone taken a look at our schedule next year? It's a tough mother! A Super Bowl caliber team would struggle to go 12-4.
As I'm reading through the posts above I see basically 2 sides. One is looking at "the now" and we clearly should be excited about the changes taking place, and we all are looking forward to the draft - I sometimes question if the draft is the pinnacle of the season for me! The other side is reasonably putting this team on the field next year and forecasting how these changes might play out.
Let's face it, NFL history tells us that the type of changes that the Bucs are going through right now typically end in a 6-10 season. I think of this like our 1996 team - Dungy's first: new attitude, new philosophy, and some new players, but the Bucs started out like 1-8 that year. They were competetive, but losing. However, they won 5 out of their last 7 games to finish.....6-10.
So, let's stay fired up about a new beginning or a new era. Let's get excited about the draft and get behind our new staff and scheme. Let's also rock that stadium on opening day like we're gearing up for a Super Bowl run, because we all bleed red & pewter here; but, let's aslo be realistic and figure maybe 8-8, but probably 6-10. With our schedule, our youth, and our face-lift, we need to be patient. I just want to see improvement in our finishes! GO BUCS!
As I'm reading through the posts above I see basically 2 sides. One is looking at "the now" and we clearly should be excited about the changes taking place, and we all are looking forward to the draft - I sometimes question if the draft is the pinnacle of the season for me! The other side is reasonably putting this team on the field next year and forecasting how these changes might play out.
Let's face it, NFL history tells us that the type of changes that the Bucs are going through right now typically end in a 6-10 season. I think of this like our 1996 team - Dungy's first: new attitude, new philosophy, and some new players, but the Bucs started out like 1-8 that year. They were competetive, but losing. However, they won 5 out of their last 7 games to finish.....6-10.
So, let's stay fired up about a new beginning or a new era. Let's get excited about the draft and get behind our new staff and scheme. Let's also rock that stadium on opening day like we're gearing up for a Super Bowl run, because we all bleed red & pewter here; but, let's aslo be realistic and figure maybe 8-8, but probably 6-10. With our schedule, our youth, and our face-lift, we need to be patient. I just want to see improvement in our finishes! GO BUCS!
11:08am, March 27, 2009
bucfan47
Trapper - You're right. No question the decision to let the entire staff go upset me. I was not as upset at the Gruden dismissal as you might think, more upset at the timing of the firings.
I'm tired of being the laughing stock of the league. The decision to let them go was all over talk radio and it left everyone basically laughing at the team. It was STUPID, in every sense of the word to fire them when they did. The promotion of Dominik to GM while he was basically just finished being under the knife, all the way to the hiring of a new coach with no experience whatsoever. It just makes me mad even thinking about where this team has come over the years and to now think they stand a VERY HIGH percentage of being at the bottom of the barrell for the next 5-7 years just disgusts me.
Again, it's great to be positive and I'm all for that. Trapper I'm not against the team. I'm really not. Sometimes maybe you read too much into my posts and it comes across too negative for you, but I'm all for them winning.
But I'm also knowledgable about the league and I look into what other teams have done when they have scratched it all and totally went back to the rebuilding stages. I personally like what I see on offense, minus the QB and WR position.
But on the other hand I hate the defense and the direction right now. To me, it's been setback because of the ownership and the team is suffering greatly yet to most casual fans it will forever go unnoticed.
That's all I'm saying. I feel the Buccaneers and Dominik made a choice to actively pursue a number of guys at the beginning of free agency, but never got to a host of others because they were busy for hours and hours into free agency attempting to sign Haynesworth, and finalizing the trade for Winslow.
According to PR, whom I believe, there were no other bodies making phone calls, at least worthwhile phone conversations to attempt to lure players to the team.
Again, I'm wishing the team the best this season, but with the brutal schedule ahead, the one area that probably needed the most attention (defense) wound up getting the least, and it just may cost us this season. Those few sentences from his former players speaks very loudly to me. Nate Webster felt the defense was too young to pull that type of scheme off. His words, not my words.
It's kinda like PR's article above on Jeff Faine liking the new system. What's he going to say, he hates it? Same goes for the coaches. They are not going to come out publicly and tell anyone they don't like the personnel on defense.
But judging by the amount of time they spent trying like hell to sign multiple players on defense during the last wave of free agency, you sure could have fooled me. I think the coaching staff behind the scenes is greatly worried about how this defense will perform, and that's exactly why we will see 4 of 6 draft picks dedicated to that side of the ball.
I'm tired of being the laughing stock of the league. The decision to let them go was all over talk radio and it left everyone basically laughing at the team. It was STUPID, in every sense of the word to fire them when they did. The promotion of Dominik to GM while he was basically just finished being under the knife, all the way to the hiring of a new coach with no experience whatsoever. It just makes me mad even thinking about where this team has come over the years and to now think they stand a VERY HIGH percentage of being at the bottom of the barrell for the next 5-7 years just disgusts me.
Again, it's great to be positive and I'm all for that. Trapper I'm not against the team. I'm really not. Sometimes maybe you read too much into my posts and it comes across too negative for you, but I'm all for them winning.
But I'm also knowledgable about the league and I look into what other teams have done when they have scratched it all and totally went back to the rebuilding stages. I personally like what I see on offense, minus the QB and WR position.
But on the other hand I hate the defense and the direction right now. To me, it's been setback because of the ownership and the team is suffering greatly yet to most casual fans it will forever go unnoticed.
That's all I'm saying. I feel the Buccaneers and Dominik made a choice to actively pursue a number of guys at the beginning of free agency, but never got to a host of others because they were busy for hours and hours into free agency attempting to sign Haynesworth, and finalizing the trade for Winslow.
According to PR, whom I believe, there were no other bodies making phone calls, at least worthwhile phone conversations to attempt to lure players to the team.
Again, I'm wishing the team the best this season, but with the brutal schedule ahead, the one area that probably needed the most attention (defense) wound up getting the least, and it just may cost us this season. Those few sentences from his former players speaks very loudly to me. Nate Webster felt the defense was too young to pull that type of scheme off. His words, not my words.
It's kinda like PR's article above on Jeff Faine liking the new system. What's he going to say, he hates it? Same goes for the coaches. They are not going to come out publicly and tell anyone they don't like the personnel on defense.
But judging by the amount of time they spent trying like hell to sign multiple players on defense during the last wave of free agency, you sure could have fooled me. I think the coaching staff behind the scenes is greatly worried about how this defense will perform, and that's exactly why we will see 4 of 6 draft picks dedicated to that side of the ball.
12:14pm, March 27, 2009
trapper
Bucfan47........How come you did'nt go into the Miami achives and find something Bad about Bates system,or did you check and could'nt find anything that matched your theory.
Just because jeff Faine doesnt cut down the new system does'nt mean he is lying.
Yeah on paper it is a brutal scedule but still you seem to only look for anything that matches your doom and gloom theory.
Only national talk radio is laughing.Ron & Ian thought it was a good move.Bigdog thought it was a good move.The Killer B's thought it was a good move.I believe just about every local newspaper sports repoter thought it was a good move.Just about everybody at PR thought it was a good move.
Yeah it has'nt been the smoothest transition but like i said, you really only look for info that matches your theories.
Just because jeff Faine doesnt cut down the new system does'nt mean he is lying.
Yeah on paper it is a brutal scedule but still you seem to only look for anything that matches your doom and gloom theory.
Only national talk radio is laughing.Ron & Ian thought it was a good move.Bigdog thought it was a good move.The Killer B's thought it was a good move.I believe just about every local newspaper sports repoter thought it was a good move.Just about everybody at PR thought it was a good move.
Yeah it has'nt been the smoothest transition but like i said, you really only look for info that matches your theories.
1:26pm, March 27, 2009
bucfan47
I never said I felt like Faine was lying. I made the statement "What's he going to say?".
If I were on the team I'd be supporting the new coaches and attempting to execute their plan to the best of my ability. I'm sure Faine will thrive in this kind of system, he's built for it with his agility. I'm not so sure the rest of the O-Line will, but that's just my take.
And of course the local media is going to support the move, they were dying to get rid of Allen and Gruden because they hated the way they treated the media. They didn't share information with them and therefore, as you might expect, made life very difficult for them to gather information about the team. How would you like to cover the New England Patriots? If you worked in the media, you're life would be more difficult than if you worked under a more open regime. Coaches and GM's run their respective shows how they choose. Allen was heavily critized for not talking to the media and it's well known that alot of his critics were brought on due to the fact he operated in stealth mode. I personally have no problem with it. I think all GM's should share as little as possibly with the media.
So I don't buy into much local talk radio, if that's who you are referring too, which I'm assuming Ron and Ian, Bigdog and Killer B's are....
At least your admitting it's not been the smoothest transition. And I'm just not bending over and forgetting that..The owners should carry alot of the blame for messing around and waiting too long to act out the firings...Those ass holes knew they were going to do it, yet they made sure they done it at a time in which the new coaches would be at a MAJOR disadvantage. I'm pissed about that.
If I were on the team I'd be supporting the new coaches and attempting to execute their plan to the best of my ability. I'm sure Faine will thrive in this kind of system, he's built for it with his agility. I'm not so sure the rest of the O-Line will, but that's just my take.
And of course the local media is going to support the move, they were dying to get rid of Allen and Gruden because they hated the way they treated the media. They didn't share information with them and therefore, as you might expect, made life very difficult for them to gather information about the team. How would you like to cover the New England Patriots? If you worked in the media, you're life would be more difficult than if you worked under a more open regime. Coaches and GM's run their respective shows how they choose. Allen was heavily critized for not talking to the media and it's well known that alot of his critics were brought on due to the fact he operated in stealth mode. I personally have no problem with it. I think all GM's should share as little as possibly with the media.
So I don't buy into much local talk radio, if that's who you are referring too, which I'm assuming Ron and Ian, Bigdog and Killer B's are....
At least your admitting it's not been the smoothest transition. And I'm just not bending over and forgetting that..The owners should carry alot of the blame for messing around and waiting too long to act out the firings...Those ass holes knew they were going to do it, yet they made sure they done it at a time in which the new coaches would be at a MAJOR disadvantage. I'm pissed about that.
1:36pm, March 27, 2009
bucfan47
And trapper one last thing, I didn't dig up the article on Bates either. I am not the one trying to find reasons not to like Bates. I don't have a problem with Bates. I personally don't know the guy.
I know he sucked in Denver. I know he's had success a long time ago in Miami. That's all I know for sure. But it wasn't me trying to dig up stuff on him. I simply read the article that was posted and found it very interesting to see the Broncos player blame their failure on being young and that's the same direction we're taking...Same results? Time will tell.
I know he sucked in Denver. I know he's had success a long time ago in Miami. That's all I know for sure. But it wasn't me trying to dig up stuff on him. I simply read the article that was posted and found it very interesting to see the Broncos player blame their failure on being young and that's the same direction we're taking...Same results? Time will tell.
1:39pm, March 27, 2009
trapper
bucfish.............good coments......realistic but still 100% behind the team and excited about the future.Now that's ,more like it.I can respect your opinion.
Sometimes on PR it feels like the other divisional team fans have bought subscriptions to PR and are trying to cut down everything they Bucs do when they havent even lost a game yet.
I thought a fan is always behind there team when they have hired a new head coach and staff,that is until they have atleast had a chance to prove them selves.
Sometimes on PR it feels like the other divisional team fans have bought subscriptions to PR and are trying to cut down everything they Bucs do when they havent even lost a game yet.
I thought a fan is always behind there team when they have hired a new head coach and staff,that is until they have atleast had a chance to prove them selves.
1:41pm, March 27, 2009
trapper
OK he sucked in Denver for half a season but last time i checked Denver's D still suck's........
You obviously dont listen to local media that was tired of Gruden's bullshit.Yeah it had nothing to do that he couldnt win a playoff game in 6 years.Gruden only kept his job because of winning the SB with a D that allowed him to have a mediocre Offence and still win a SB.The D is what kept his job for Gruden the next 6 years.
Gruden was hired to install an exciting Offence which he never did.Of course that was'nt Gruden's fault.
National media knows a little bit about every team and then maybe alot about a couple teams that they focuse on.They dont know even half of what the local media does about the Bucs.Most of the local media has been covering the Bucs since 1976.
How many national media guys that are around now were even covering football 5 - 10 years ago.Almost none because there mostly players who were still playing football.
There you go again.......finding only the media that agree's with you........a bunch of reporters that really dont know this Bucs franchise at all.There covering 32 teams while the local media syudies just the Bucs.
You should be a politician because you have to try awful hard to spin anything you can to fit your agenda.
You obviously dont listen to local media that was tired of Gruden's bullshit.Yeah it had nothing to do that he couldnt win a playoff game in 6 years.Gruden only kept his job because of winning the SB with a D that allowed him to have a mediocre Offence and still win a SB.The D is what kept his job for Gruden the next 6 years.
Gruden was hired to install an exciting Offence which he never did.Of course that was'nt Gruden's fault.
National media knows a little bit about every team and then maybe alot about a couple teams that they focuse on.They dont know even half of what the local media does about the Bucs.Most of the local media has been covering the Bucs since 1976.
How many national media guys that are around now were even covering football 5 - 10 years ago.Almost none because there mostly players who were still playing football.
There you go again.......finding only the media that agree's with you........a bunch of reporters that really dont know this Bucs franchise at all.There covering 32 teams while the local media syudies just the Bucs.
You should be a politician because you have to try awful hard to spin anything you can to fit your agenda.
2:03pm, March 27, 2009
trapper
Oh yeah, Bucfan47 what was Gruden's players gonna do,come out and say they hate Gruden's system,they hate the way he treats player's.They hate his complex scheme.they hate when he puts players in the doghouse for his own power trip.But ya know ALOT.................ALOT of players came out against Gruden after he was gone......after he was gone but in your wporld that dont count.you never mention that.
2:20pm, March 27, 2009
bucfish
Thanks Trapper. I've bled orange since '83 when I opened my Christmas present to find a #63 jersey in the box and wore the crap out of that thing from that day until it fell apart by my 7th birthday - just in time to go after the James Wilder jersey. Although the orange in my blood has turned pewter and I'm too fat and old to dream of catching a touchdown pass from Testeverde anymore, I still get a kick out of my town and it's teams as if I were a kid again.
I love the passion on these blogs - be it negative or positive. Some people just see things differently. I don't agree with everything bucfan47 writes, but he loves this team just as much.
I used to hate Big Dog when he spent nearly his entire show blasting Dilfer back in the day. But you had to listen to him because he was the only show around that wasn't "The Bucs are great!" all day long. I need to hear that other side. I was pissed too with the way the Glazers did Gruden and Dungy for that matter. Our front office seems to lack class when saying goodbye to hard workers and fine community members. There needs to be a voice in our fan base that has the fangs to cut into issues like bucfan47 and others do to bring accountability. I respect Big Dog for that, and I respect bucfan47 in that same way.
At least we're not like Philly fan who are so dark and negative that they made fun of Jurevicious' son after he had died back on our Super Bowl run. Our fans are great - mostly class acts. I like the way we represent Tampa. We love our town and our teams and are respected around the league for that.
I wish the Glazers understood that the way they handle their business is a direct reflection of how the country sees the Tampa Bay area. When they act like idiots and treat Buc idols the way they do, it makes us fans look bad too and I hate that!
Keep the comments rolling boys - good or bad. It makes life fun for some who haven't had a whole lot to smile about lately.
I love the passion on these blogs - be it negative or positive. Some people just see things differently. I don't agree with everything bucfan47 writes, but he loves this team just as much.
I used to hate Big Dog when he spent nearly his entire show blasting Dilfer back in the day. But you had to listen to him because he was the only show around that wasn't "The Bucs are great!" all day long. I need to hear that other side. I was pissed too with the way the Glazers did Gruden and Dungy for that matter. Our front office seems to lack class when saying goodbye to hard workers and fine community members. There needs to be a voice in our fan base that has the fangs to cut into issues like bucfan47 and others do to bring accountability. I respect Big Dog for that, and I respect bucfan47 in that same way.
At least we're not like Philly fan who are so dark and negative that they made fun of Jurevicious' son after he had died back on our Super Bowl run. Our fans are great - mostly class acts. I like the way we represent Tampa. We love our town and our teams and are respected around the league for that.
I wish the Glazers understood that the way they handle their business is a direct reflection of how the country sees the Tampa Bay area. When they act like idiots and treat Buc idols the way they do, it makes us fans look bad too and I hate that!
Keep the comments rolling boys - good or bad. It makes life fun for some who haven't had a whole lot to smile about lately.
2:21pm, March 27, 2009
trapper
Bucfan47 ....so you dont listen to no local sports talk radio or read any local sports newspaper.know wonder why your out of touch with the points of view on anything related to the Bucs that you dont agree with.
Now the local media knew it was time for Gruden to go and most are giving the new staff there chance even though they dont agree with everything that has happen (and i dont too).
But the national media are truley clueless when it comes to the details of this Bucs team.They just play the odds "well this guys gone and this guy is'nt proven and they need this guy.
If you live by there opiion of they Bucs your probablygonna always be let down by there remarks.
To say the local media knows less about the Bucs than a bunch of guys who briefly cover all 32 teams shows your lack of knowledge on the local media....not to say there always right (i dont always agree either) but that is just.............stupid.
Buy a radio and a few newspapers and keep reading PR and you will know more than your gonna listening to most of the "national media"
Now the local media knew it was time for Gruden to go and most are giving the new staff there chance even though they dont agree with everything that has happen (and i dont too).
But the national media are truley clueless when it comes to the details of this Bucs team.They just play the odds "well this guys gone and this guy is'nt proven and they need this guy.
If you live by there opiion of they Bucs your probablygonna always be let down by there remarks.
To say the local media knows less about the Bucs than a bunch of guys who briefly cover all 32 teams shows your lack of knowledge on the local media....not to say there always right (i dont always agree either) but that is just.............stupid.
Buy a radio and a few newspapers and keep reading PR and you will know more than your gonna listening to most of the "national media"
2:34pm, March 27, 2009
bucfan47
haha..Well, look. If you don't think Gruden can coach then that's your opinion. I disagree 100%, but that's why we live in America.
As much as you may want to disagree with the last coaching staff, they sure done alot of things right along the way. Gruden faced something that none of these new guys may ever have to deal with during their tenure in Tampa, which was the salary cap. The Buccaneers brass are now enjoying a team that's no longer battling salary cap issues, much like other teams (like the Panthers) are now and have the ability to go out and attempt to sign players across the league.
If you don't have money then improving the team would be difficult, and it was for Gruden and co. during their 1st four years here. They had to make due with more of the aging veterans mainly because those players can still be signed for a decent price and you typically know what you're getting from those players, consistentcy. It's exactly the type of strategy that's being used in New England right now. It works pretty well. It actually wins SuperBowls.
And if that Buccaneers offense was mediocre back in 02 during there playoff run, I'll take a mediocre offense anyday of the week. It was far from mediocre after week 12, when the offense fully learned the playbook. It was very exciting.
And I'm not talking about average beat writers trap, I follow the guys that do know as much about the team as local media. Believe what you want but there are reporters that work exclusively on NFL 365/yr. Most of your local sports writers around the country don't follow any team exclusively, they are paid to cover many sports teams in the local area.
Very, very few writers do what PR has been so successful at doing over the last 20 years. Why do you think there are so many disagreements from time to time between St. Pete and PR? One follows the club exclusively and doesn't make up stories and the other follows alot of stories pretending to know everything about the team. I got news for you, outside of PR it was difficult for anyone in the media to follow the Buccaneers exclusively. I remember reading a few articles from PR alluding to the fact Bruce Allen operated in stealth mode.
Facts are we don't agree, will probably never agree, so why don't you STOP reading my posts?
I think that would be the best solution as you appear to be the only one that's on an island in disagreement on most of the things I talk about. Just stop reading my stuff.
Go ahead and talk out of you ass about how bad the last coaching staff was when you obviously don't know any of the details that led up to the firings, and go ahead and talk up the new coaching staff with no experience, like our team is now on a path to multiple future SuperBowls.
As much as you may want to disagree with the last coaching staff, they sure done alot of things right along the way. Gruden faced something that none of these new guys may ever have to deal with during their tenure in Tampa, which was the salary cap. The Buccaneers brass are now enjoying a team that's no longer battling salary cap issues, much like other teams (like the Panthers) are now and have the ability to go out and attempt to sign players across the league.
If you don't have money then improving the team would be difficult, and it was for Gruden and co. during their 1st four years here. They had to make due with more of the aging veterans mainly because those players can still be signed for a decent price and you typically know what you're getting from those players, consistentcy. It's exactly the type of strategy that's being used in New England right now. It works pretty well. It actually wins SuperBowls.
And if that Buccaneers offense was mediocre back in 02 during there playoff run, I'll take a mediocre offense anyday of the week. It was far from mediocre after week 12, when the offense fully learned the playbook. It was very exciting.
And I'm not talking about average beat writers trap, I follow the guys that do know as much about the team as local media. Believe what you want but there are reporters that work exclusively on NFL 365/yr. Most of your local sports writers around the country don't follow any team exclusively, they are paid to cover many sports teams in the local area.
Very, very few writers do what PR has been so successful at doing over the last 20 years. Why do you think there are so many disagreements from time to time between St. Pete and PR? One follows the club exclusively and doesn't make up stories and the other follows alot of stories pretending to know everything about the team. I got news for you, outside of PR it was difficult for anyone in the media to follow the Buccaneers exclusively. I remember reading a few articles from PR alluding to the fact Bruce Allen operated in stealth mode.
Facts are we don't agree, will probably never agree, so why don't you STOP reading my posts?
I think that would be the best solution as you appear to be the only one that's on an island in disagreement on most of the things I talk about. Just stop reading my stuff.
Go ahead and talk out of you ass about how bad the last coaching staff was when you obviously don't know any of the details that led up to the firings, and go ahead and talk up the new coaching staff with no experience, like our team is now on a path to multiple future SuperBowls.
2:35pm, March 27, 2009
bucfan47
trapper - You should get your facts straight. Two players verbally commented against Gruden. One was Garcia and the other was Clayton.
Garcia was frustrated because they did not award him with a new contract, and thankfully they didn't.
The other former-Bucs players that vouched against him was Keyshaun and Shawn King (somewhat). We all know the issues there..
And what's that mean exactly? Warren Sapp doesn't like Monte Kiffin either because Monte actually cut him years ago, so that makes Monte a bad guy? C'mon man..
Garcia was frustrated because they did not award him with a new contract, and thankfully they didn't.
The other former-Bucs players that vouched against him was Keyshaun and Shawn King (somewhat). We all know the issues there..
And what's that mean exactly? Warren Sapp doesn't like Monte Kiffin either because Monte actually cut him years ago, so that makes Monte a bad guy? C'mon man..
2:39pm, March 27, 2009
trapper
bucfish...........that is some really good points and your right that it is nice to hear other peoples points of view and it would be boring to only hear good about the team with no challenge from any fans so with that being said i do kinda ....lol respect Bucfan47......he is passionate.It's just that sometimes it feels like the enemy has invaded this site and it makes me be defencive when a Buc fan is constantly cutting on my team when they havent even done anything yet.
It's just gets out of hand with the constant post after post of why were gonna suck when i'm excited about the Bucs and the new Staff.......it makes me defenceve.
That being said i enjoy the jabber..........there's a lot of time to kill before kick off this year...............LOL.
GO BUCS !!!!
It's just gets out of hand with the constant post after post of why were gonna suck when i'm excited about the Bucs and the new Staff.......it makes me defenceve.
That being said i enjoy the jabber..........there's a lot of time to kill before kick off this year...............LOL.
GO BUCS !!!!
2:45pm, March 27, 2009
trapper
Oh sorry .....after 6 years of shit i forgot about the ones who spoke out against Gruden before he left.......and there were more but there opinions dont count because it dont fit into your theory.........just that Jeff Faine "what was he suppose to say".
That just proves you just look for shit to hate about this new team.....there's a big difference between you and just about everybody that i have read on this site.........you just dont stop with the hate......post after post cutting down the BUCS in some way...............redicilous !!
That just proves you just look for shit to hate about this new team.....there's a big difference between you and just about everybody that i have read on this site.........you just dont stop with the hate......post after post cutting down the BUCS in some way...............redicilous !!
2:54pm, March 27, 2009
bucfan47
What you'll find once you step outside the box is this...The local media is ALWAYS biased towards the team...ALWAYS..ALWAYS..ALWAYS...
Unless..And there's one exception...If the GM and Coach don't follow the rules and provide the media with access to information. If they make their life hard, it's an automatic receipe for disaster in the media..
What's that mean for guys like you trap? It means if Allen and Gruden piss the media off (it's called politics) then YOU, the local fan gets to hear years and years of negative publicity about the front office.
What it leads too is exactly the path you are currently on..After years of pounding away at you, article after article written and discuss in the papers and radio about how bad these coaches are, eventually the fanbase jumps onboard when the team struggles to win games and both issues equate to the coaches being fired.
It's alittle more complicated than that but ESPN took a poll shortly after the firings of Jon Gruden and ask over 150,000 people to chime in on whether they agreed with the dismissal. I'm sure some fans on this board remember seeing it..Alot of us did...Over 70% of the fans outside of Tampa agreed it was a very POOR decision.
Locally, that was a totally different story. I agree with PR 110% on Gruden and Allen. They will be much more appreciated when it's all said and done and we look back on them and their careers down the road.
Unless..And there's one exception...If the GM and Coach don't follow the rules and provide the media with access to information. If they make their life hard, it's an automatic receipe for disaster in the media..
What's that mean for guys like you trap? It means if Allen and Gruden piss the media off (it's called politics) then YOU, the local fan gets to hear years and years of negative publicity about the front office.
What it leads too is exactly the path you are currently on..After years of pounding away at you, article after article written and discuss in the papers and radio about how bad these coaches are, eventually the fanbase jumps onboard when the team struggles to win games and both issues equate to the coaches being fired.
It's alittle more complicated than that but ESPN took a poll shortly after the firings of Jon Gruden and ask over 150,000 people to chime in on whether they agreed with the dismissal. I'm sure some fans on this board remember seeing it..Alot of us did...Over 70% of the fans outside of Tampa agreed it was a very POOR decision.
Locally, that was a totally different story. I agree with PR 110% on Gruden and Allen. They will be much more appreciated when it's all said and done and we look back on them and their careers down the road.
2:54pm, March 27, 2009
bucfan47
trapper - I'm making fun of the question. Not trying to rip the Bucs, Faine, or anyone else. I don't like the title of the article. It was only supposed to be a joke. Nothing more.
2:56pm, March 27, 2009
trapper
The all knowing BUCFAN47.....you dont know shit about shit.
I did'nt even read your articles until you made direct comments to me last year when Gruden was still here.Shooting your mouth off about how "your so wrong Trapper,you'll see soon"Well guess what ASS......youve been wrong about just about everything that has come to pass since ive had my subscription.You just not use to somebody actually challenging
you on your bullshit theories........You called me out last year so if you dont like what i have to say dont read my posts.......ASS.
I told you Gruden would get fired so who's the idiot.As long as you keep cutting down the Bucs on here i will respond like i want..........say what you want but like i said before your on a vendetta because the Glazers dont agree with you so they must be wrong.........The same owners who brought Dungy and Gruden here and turned around this franchise from THE LAUGHING STOCK OF THE LEAGUE..........yeah ...your right so they gotta be wrong about everything they did that dont fit your theories................. GO BUCS.......KICK BUTT THIS YEAR !!
I did'nt even read your articles until you made direct comments to me last year when Gruden was still here.Shooting your mouth off about how "your so wrong Trapper,you'll see soon"Well guess what ASS......youve been wrong about just about everything that has come to pass since ive had my subscription.You just not use to somebody actually challenging
you on your bullshit theories........You called me out last year so if you dont like what i have to say dont read my posts.......ASS.
I told you Gruden would get fired so who's the idiot.As long as you keep cutting down the Bucs on here i will respond like i want..........say what you want but like i said before your on a vendetta because the Glazers dont agree with you so they must be wrong.........The same owners who brought Dungy and Gruden here and turned around this franchise from THE LAUGHING STOCK OF THE LEAGUE..........yeah ...your right so they gotta be wrong about everything they did that dont fit your theories................. GO BUCS.......KICK BUTT THIS YEAR !!
3:09pm, March 27, 2009
bucfan47
Trapper, now we're getting somewhere...Get fired up buddy!
I like those all caps too...Keep em coming...Now your comments are actually beginning to be fun to read. I have no idea what you're trying to say, but nonetheless, FUN!
I like those all caps too...Keep em coming...Now your comments are actually beginning to be fun to read. I have no idea what you're trying to say, but nonetheless, FUN!
3:13pm, March 27, 2009
trapper
It's hard to tell when your making fun because your always complaining.Yeah ESPN knows all about the Bucs.........What a joke...........now that's funny.........lol.
Yeah there's not one local sports media that has a clue because there all biased because Gruden & Allen did'nt like the media.......they didnt like the media because they called them out on all there bullshit.
That's why gruden would not do the John Gruden Show with Ian Beckles because Ian actually approach's Gruden like you do "a spade is a spade".except Ian is right and you dont have a clue.
Yeah there's not one local sports media that has a clue because there all biased because Gruden & Allen did'nt like the media.......they didnt like the media because they called them out on all there bullshit.
That's why gruden would not do the John Gruden Show with Ian Beckles because Ian actually approach's Gruden like you do "a spade is a spade".except Ian is right and you dont have a clue.
3:17pm, March 27, 2009
trapper
I wont post no more today so you can have the last word.
All i know is i support this staff & team..................GO BUCS !!!
All i know is i support this staff & team..................GO BUCS !!!
3:20pm, March 27, 2009
BucHarbour
So, trapper, if the Bucs decided to fire the current coaching staff and hire a bunch of used car salesmen that have never watched, or played, football in their lives, to coach this team, we should just go all ra-ra and get behind the team 100%?
As usual, it continues to be clear that a lot of the Gruden haters simply don't know anything about what constitutes a good coach. How's that gettin' rid of Gruden thing working out for Oakland?
As usual, it continues to be clear that a lot of the Gruden haters simply don't know anything about what constitutes a good coach. How's that gettin' rid of Gruden thing working out for Oakland?
8:42am, March 28, 2009
bucman23
ok first of all, it worked out pretty good for oakland seeing as they went to the superbowl. you can thank al davis for stacking that team and you can thank him for dismantling it. i have to agree with trapper, bucsfan47 you're a little snob. every post i read you're ripping the glazers for screwing this team up. is this the same people that saved this franchise and brought a superbowl? and do you think being cheap means eating 25 million dollars for the remainder of gruden and allens salary? come on enough with the conspiracy theories. you read one article about them firing the front office and you want to put all the blame on them and say they're bad owners. we have no idea why that happened. and just because it is reported that the bucs were interested in people does not mean that they are going to sign them. the people they were interested in are the people that they tried to sign. they went elsewhere, shit happens. you think antonio smith is worth 7 mil a year?? look at some of these peoples contracts before you run your mouth. there is no point throwing millions at people who aren't worth it. yes we did take a step back, but do you honestly think that we were 1 or 2 people away from a superbowl? no way. and stop criticizing people for using caps when you do that on every post. he was mocking you. im sick of your consistent negativety, and worse all you do is attack others and defend why this team is going to be horrible. just because the "experts" are on sattelite radio instead of tv doesnt mean jack. i laughed when you point to pat kirwin as your reference. come on man enough with the negative feedback. i normally dont get this aggravated but you are just something else. we can debate this all we want but we have no idea how were going to be next year. yeah it might be unlikely that we will be good, but i've seen to many things happen to just play it off as a guarantee. nothing is a guarantee. i really wish i knew you so i could slap you in the mouth, your arrogance is really starting to piss me off.
11:01am, March 28, 2009
trapper
Thanks Bucman23........................they call themselves fans but they complain about everything...............they should become Raider fans or Detriot fans, that way they will never run out of things to bitch about.
GO BUCS !!!!
GO BUCS !!!!
12:21pm, March 28, 2009
trapper
BucHarbor........are you from Bar Harbor Maine ?
I was a gruden supporter until last year.But some of you hate the Glazers & Raheem & staff before theve done anything....now that's being an idiot and a real hater.It's ok to cut down the new staff when they havent done anything yet but it's not ok to cut on a coach that was here for 7 years and had a 500 record and no play-off wins in 6 years.
Bates has no exp ? Jag has no exp ? Raheem has no exp ? That dont even make sense,they all have been in college football & the NFL there whole lives.
If your gonna make a comment to me atleast know what the hell your talking about.
No i dont exspect everybody to be ra ra all the time but Bucfan47 spends all his time digging up info and making long posts just about everyday on how his so-called team is gonna suck.That's what is bullshit and down right just stupid.
I was a gruden supporter until last year.But some of you hate the Glazers & Raheem & staff before theve done anything....now that's being an idiot and a real hater.It's ok to cut down the new staff when they havent done anything yet but it's not ok to cut on a coach that was here for 7 years and had a 500 record and no play-off wins in 6 years.
Bates has no exp ? Jag has no exp ? Raheem has no exp ? That dont even make sense,they all have been in college football & the NFL there whole lives.
If your gonna make a comment to me atleast know what the hell your talking about.
No i dont exspect everybody to be ra ra all the time but Bucfan47 spends all his time digging up info and making long posts just about everyday on how his so-called team is gonna suck.That's what is bullshit and down right just stupid.
12:40pm, March 28, 2009
trapper
Bucharbor........so Raheem,Bates and Jags are not good coach's.Where's your proof on that.They havent even coached one game for the Bucs yet and you know there not good coach's..........lol....that's pretty stupid dude.
And what the hell is your point about hiring people that have never played or watched football.....no team has ever done that.
So you think this new staff is that bad when they havent filled the roster yet or played a game....yeah your real knowledgable.
And what the hell is your point about hiring people that have never played or watched football.....no team has ever done that.
So you think this new staff is that bad when they havent filled the roster yet or played a game....yeah your real knowledgable.
12:57pm, March 28, 2009
trapper
Bucharbor........so Raheem,Bates and Jags are not good coach's.Where's your proof on that.They havent even coached one game for the Bucs yet and you know there not good coach's..........lol....that's pretty stupid dude.
And what the hell is your point about hiring people that have never played or watched football.....no team has ever done that.
So you think this new staff is that bad when they havent filled the roster yet or played a game....yeah your real knowledgable.
And what the hell is your point about hiring people that have never played or watched football.....no team has ever done that.
So you think this new staff is that bad when they havent filled the roster yet or played a game....yeah your real knowledgable.
12:57pm, March 28, 2009
trapper
BucHarbor........by the way,i dont see any used car salesman on this team............so what's your beef.
1:08pm, March 28, 2009
scubog
I've now come to the conclusion that Bucfan47 must be unemployed (or his boss doesn't see him posting all day instead of working) and he must not be married or have anyone to argue with except his cyber buddies. The effort he makes to try to prove other posters wrong (at least in his mind) is truly amazing.
I think there needs to be a new definition for the phrase "Going Postal". If anyone has ever gone over the edge it's good ol' Bucfan47, going postal one rant at a time.
I think there needs to be a new definition for the phrase "Going Postal". If anyone has ever gone over the edge it's good ol' Bucfan47, going postal one rant at a time.
4:06pm, March 28, 2009
BucHarbour
Bucman23, Oakland retained the ENTIRE coaching staff of Gruden. They continued to run the team the same in 2002 and went to the Super Bowl. Then Callahan decided to try to change things...they went into the toilet, and haven't been the same since. Once Gruden's influence was completely gone, that team went into the toilet.
Trapper, clearly you fail to understand what I am saying. I am not saying that the hired staff is a bunch of no-nothing used car salesmen. I'm attacking your comment about how we should get behind the team's moves no matter what they are. The simple fact is too many on this board fail to realize that 1) Gruden wasn't in charge of the personnel brought in (had he, he would have brought a real QB in here a while ago), and 2) Gruden was able to win a lot of games with marginal talent, and really could have been in the playoffs if not for Monte closing up shop the last month.
I'm a Clearwater born FL native, btw. Never been to Maine.
Trapper, clearly you fail to understand what I am saying. I am not saying that the hired staff is a bunch of no-nothing used car salesmen. I'm attacking your comment about how we should get behind the team's moves no matter what they are. The simple fact is too many on this board fail to realize that 1) Gruden wasn't in charge of the personnel brought in (had he, he would have brought a real QB in here a while ago), and 2) Gruden was able to win a lot of games with marginal talent, and really could have been in the playoffs if not for Monte closing up shop the last month.
I'm a Clearwater born FL native, btw. Never been to Maine.
5:29pm, March 28, 2009
trapper
BucHarbour
1) Of course Gruden had a say in the personal that came here.Who knows better them Gruden what players should work in his system.B. Allen decided more if they could afford the player and working contracts and negotiations.
They should have tried to get Drew Bree's ...big mistake.I dont believe they even tried to.
I do agree Gruden's offence would have been better with a great QB but i dont remember that many great QB's available while Gruden was coach.Of course anybody's offence would be better with a great QB.
2) But Gruden would'nt even been nowhere near a 500 coach for the Bucs if it was'nt for Monte and the D Gruden was handed when He came.
But it was time for Gruden to go,for the fans and for the players IMO.Average for too long.....
1) Of course Gruden had a say in the personal that came here.Who knows better them Gruden what players should work in his system.B. Allen decided more if they could afford the player and working contracts and negotiations.
They should have tried to get Drew Bree's ...big mistake.I dont believe they even tried to.
I do agree Gruden's offence would have been better with a great QB but i dont remember that many great QB's available while Gruden was coach.Of course anybody's offence would be better with a great QB.
2) But Gruden would'nt even been nowhere near a 500 coach for the Bucs if it was'nt for Monte and the D Gruden was handed when He came.
But it was time for Gruden to go,for the fans and for the players IMO.Average for too long.....
7:42pm, March 28, 2009
bucfan47
BucHarbour - You're wasting your time. These guys choose to believe what they want to about the last staff, it's all negative because they were all onboard with the change.
They don't know what they had until they stay at the bottom of the league for 5 or 6 seasons, then they'll realize.
No coach has total control of the player personnel trapper. He might have a say verbally, but he doesn't negogiate the deals and manage the cap. Same with Raheem. He can tell Dominik all day long he wanted this player or that player, but there's alot that goes into bringing that player here.
And there's also more and more evidence starting to emerge that the Glazers are not willing to "Do what it takes" to spend money to make this team better.
If you ask me, they are cutting back, because they still owe Gruden and Allen money, plus they must pay the new coaching staff. They're cutting back, if the new guys fail, no big deal, they will be out from under Gruden and Allen's contracts, they can fire and replace Dominik and Raheem 3 years from now and target another big name coach.
It's a win/win situation for the owners. If the new guys succeed, they win, if they don't, they hire someone else and move on. These guys aren't going to get more than 3 years to win.
BucHarbour, don't waste your time.
They don't know what they had until they stay at the bottom of the league for 5 or 6 seasons, then they'll realize.
No coach has total control of the player personnel trapper. He might have a say verbally, but he doesn't negogiate the deals and manage the cap. Same with Raheem. He can tell Dominik all day long he wanted this player or that player, but there's alot that goes into bringing that player here.
And there's also more and more evidence starting to emerge that the Glazers are not willing to "Do what it takes" to spend money to make this team better.
If you ask me, they are cutting back, because they still owe Gruden and Allen money, plus they must pay the new coaching staff. They're cutting back, if the new guys fail, no big deal, they will be out from under Gruden and Allen's contracts, they can fire and replace Dominik and Raheem 3 years from now and target another big name coach.
It's a win/win situation for the owners. If the new guys succeed, they win, if they don't, they hire someone else and move on. These guys aren't going to get more than 3 years to win.
BucHarbour, don't waste your time.
8:11pm, March 28, 2009
bucfan47
BucHarbour - There are some on here that would back the team if the decision was to pull a "Major League". The get upset to no end for looking at the negative, even when it's clearly written on the wall.
I would argue there is no team in the history of the league that's made as many changes in one off-season, that's gone on to do well in three seasons, not just one...They've fired 20+ coaches and staff members, implemented a brand-new scheme on both sides of the ball, new coaches everywhere, some with no experience in their current positions, and yet people get upset when people like myself, BucHarbour and others don't "see the light".
Make no mistake, I'm a HUGE Bucsfan, but I'm not so blinded that I cannot see the writing on the wall. You can be a true fan and be realistic about the upcoming season.
When the football games kickoff, I'll be right there cheering them on like the rest of you. Being honest about our opinions toward the organization and team does not in the least make you a non-fan if you're just being straightforward.
I get bashed all the time for writing negative comments but it doesn't bother me in the least. I say what I think, and if people don't like it, they can screw themselves. And yes, trapper, scubog, I'm mainly talking to you.
I would argue there is no team in the history of the league that's made as many changes in one off-season, that's gone on to do well in three seasons, not just one...They've fired 20+ coaches and staff members, implemented a brand-new scheme on both sides of the ball, new coaches everywhere, some with no experience in their current positions, and yet people get upset when people like myself, BucHarbour and others don't "see the light".
Make no mistake, I'm a HUGE Bucsfan, but I'm not so blinded that I cannot see the writing on the wall. You can be a true fan and be realistic about the upcoming season.
When the football games kickoff, I'll be right there cheering them on like the rest of you. Being honest about our opinions toward the organization and team does not in the least make you a non-fan if you're just being straightforward.
I get bashed all the time for writing negative comments but it doesn't bother me in the least. I say what I think, and if people don't like it, they can screw themselves. And yes, trapper, scubog, I'm mainly talking to you.
8:21pm, March 28, 2009
trapper
That's what i said Bucfan47.....Gruden had a say in personal decisions and that Allen decided if they could afford the player (cap room) and worked the contracts and negotiations.
You get bashed all the time not because you dont like just about nothing about the team.It's because your on PR site constanly cutting down the Bucs and trying to piss people off.
Everyday you bitch......bitch,bitch,bitch
You can call it what you want but you dont have a clue of what being a fan is in my book......and pretty much everybody on here agree's ...so weather you care or not that's what most of us think and as long as you keep bitching every day everybody is gonna keep bashing you.
I cant wait for this next few season's to unfold because then everybody will see you dont have a clue.Your predicting 5 - 6 of on the bottom before they realize.That's the stupidest thing you've ever said (that ive read).There's not a football analysist in the world that would make that kind of prediction.
That really shows you dont have a clue.HA HA what a fck'n joke.
You get bashed all the time not because you dont like just about nothing about the team.It's because your on PR site constanly cutting down the Bucs and trying to piss people off.
Everyday you bitch......bitch,bitch,bitch
You can call it what you want but you dont have a clue of what being a fan is in my book......and pretty much everybody on here agree's ...so weather you care or not that's what most of us think and as long as you keep bitching every day everybody is gonna keep bashing you.
I cant wait for this next few season's to unfold because then everybody will see you dont have a clue.Your predicting 5 - 6 of on the bottom before they realize.That's the stupidest thing you've ever said (that ive read).There's not a football analysist in the world that would make that kind of prediction.
That really shows you dont have a clue.HA HA what a fck'n joke.
8:47pm, March 28, 2009
trapper
I ment to say your predicting 5 - 6 years on the bottom before they realize.
8:51pm, March 28, 2009
trapper
Bucfan47..... Oh your gonna bitch constantly until the season starts and then your gonna root for them and hope they win even though you already know there gonna get fired in 3 years and the Glazers wont figure it out for 5 - 6 years.
Your so fake man..........your just a band wagon fan at the best.
Your so fake man..........your just a band wagon fan at the best.
8:58pm, March 28, 2009
bucfan47
That's just the way you choose to see it. I've never said the Bucs will be at the bottome for the next 5-6 seasons dumb-ass, I'm using an analogy.
And so was BucHarbour. We are saying it's very unrealistic to expect them to be good. That's all we're saying dumbass.
He clerified for you that Oakland had very little turnover on staff after Gruden and they are still terrible. I personally feel that's not the greatest of examples because I think our organization if better than Oaklands.
And all I'm saying is that with this much turnover, you'd be stupid to think they're going to be competitive this season. It's not being against the team, it's called understanding this season is going to be an uphill climb. What's not being a fan about understanding this year is going to be a setback?
As it stands right this minute, your just not being realistic, which I understand most hard-core diehards aren't. Maybe I'm not as pyscho over the Bucs as you, but who cares. I'm a fan, and I'm rooting for them to succeed, I believe and it's my right to think they way I choose to think..So take it for what it's worth...
You're no more of a fan for being positive as I am for being realistic, even if your take is negative.
And so was BucHarbour. We are saying it's very unrealistic to expect them to be good. That's all we're saying dumbass.
He clerified for you that Oakland had very little turnover on staff after Gruden and they are still terrible. I personally feel that's not the greatest of examples because I think our organization if better than Oaklands.
And all I'm saying is that with this much turnover, you'd be stupid to think they're going to be competitive this season. It's not being against the team, it's called understanding this season is going to be an uphill climb. What's not being a fan about understanding this year is going to be a setback?
As it stands right this minute, your just not being realistic, which I understand most hard-core diehards aren't. Maybe I'm not as pyscho over the Bucs as you, but who cares. I'm a fan, and I'm rooting for them to succeed, I believe and it's my right to think they way I choose to think..So take it for what it's worth...
You're no more of a fan for being positive as I am for being realistic, even if your take is negative.
9:32pm, March 28, 2009
scubog
Bucfan47: You read what you want to read and pick out only pieces of what people post in order to "set them straight." Let me be clear for you.
You and I really don't think much differently about the Gruden/Allen firing. I wasn't in favor of it either. I also thought if it were to be done it could have been done earlier. But I am certainly willing to allow Dominik/Morris at least one season before treating them like Phil Krueger and Leeman Bennett.
I too wish there were a better way to release popular players when their time has come and maybe that could have happened here, but it is common throughout the league.
I have no delusions that the team is at risk of taking a step back before moving forward; especially with so many changes in coaching, personnel and schemes. But that step back began last season with Allen/Gruden at the helm. You might recall the very fortunate 9-3 record turning into a 9-7 train wreck. Brooks should have given way to his back-up after Carolina and the others targeted him after he was injured.
I'd like the Glazers to be more public but not like Mr. Facelift there in Dallas. I don't see any perceived money problems affecting the teams ability to sign free agents any more than any other team except maybe the one run by Dan Snyder who every year goes after the biggest names. How's that working?
Like you, I see the biggest need in the draft to be defensive end (no one in free agency appealed to me) which would likely be addressed in the 1st round and cornerback where there is a history of success in the 3rd round. I do think it's entirely possible that a QB is drafted at #19 depending on how they are evaluating McCown and Johnson.
I don't have any issue with any of your negative comments, many of which I share. What I don't get is the effort you make to preach your opinions (they're no more fact than those of anyone else at this point) and your prediction of gloom ad nauseam.
Where we differ is with your constant calling out of other posters whose opinion is not the same as yours as if your thoughts are facts and theirs are wishful thinking. Even in one of your recent posts (or articles as you call them) you attempt to scold me.
You, like every other poster, know only what you read and watch on TV or listen on the radio. Basically you know what someone else said. You have no inside information, you haven't watched hours of film on a player to make an evaluation. You've never discussed football with Gruden or Morris. There's virtually nothing that makes you more right than anyone else.
It's not your message, it's the way the message is presented.
You and I really don't think much differently about the Gruden/Allen firing. I wasn't in favor of it either. I also thought if it were to be done it could have been done earlier. But I am certainly willing to allow Dominik/Morris at least one season before treating them like Phil Krueger and Leeman Bennett.
I too wish there were a better way to release popular players when their time has come and maybe that could have happened here, but it is common throughout the league.
I have no delusions that the team is at risk of taking a step back before moving forward; especially with so many changes in coaching, personnel and schemes. But that step back began last season with Allen/Gruden at the helm. You might recall the very fortunate 9-3 record turning into a 9-7 train wreck. Brooks should have given way to his back-up after Carolina and the others targeted him after he was injured.
I'd like the Glazers to be more public but not like Mr. Facelift there in Dallas. I don't see any perceived money problems affecting the teams ability to sign free agents any more than any other team except maybe the one run by Dan Snyder who every year goes after the biggest names. How's that working?
Like you, I see the biggest need in the draft to be defensive end (no one in free agency appealed to me) which would likely be addressed in the 1st round and cornerback where there is a history of success in the 3rd round. I do think it's entirely possible that a QB is drafted at #19 depending on how they are evaluating McCown and Johnson.
I don't have any issue with any of your negative comments, many of which I share. What I don't get is the effort you make to preach your opinions (they're no more fact than those of anyone else at this point) and your prediction of gloom ad nauseam.
Where we differ is with your constant calling out of other posters whose opinion is not the same as yours as if your thoughts are facts and theirs are wishful thinking. Even in one of your recent posts (or articles as you call them) you attempt to scold me.
You, like every other poster, know only what you read and watch on TV or listen on the radio. Basically you know what someone else said. You have no inside information, you haven't watched hours of film on a player to make an evaluation. You've never discussed football with Gruden or Morris. There's virtually nothing that makes you more right than anyone else.
It's not your message, it's the way the message is presented.
7:31am, March 29, 2009
BucHarbour
Trapper, if you actually believe that Gruden had primary say in personnel, then you really don't pay attention enough to the Bucs are the reporting from PR. Heck, just look at his face when they drafted Adams two years ago. That alone should tell you something. It's also well known he wanted to take Brohm last year with the number 2, only to see Allen pull the leaver for Jackson (that worked out well).
When McKay was here, there was even less say for Gruden, which affected three of the drafts he was here for. He wanted Westbrook, for example. He got guys like Marquise Walker, Chris Simms, and others that he didn't want. Gruden wasn't allowed to purchase the groceries (to put a little Parcells euphemism into it). He was only allowed to make his wish list.
Too many, even on this site, are so ill-informed about what went on and how things work, that they've formed opinions that, too me, don't make sense. That is the primary issue some of us have with a bunch of you guys. Many of you don't have your facts straight, and don't understand the impacts of things like the ManU purchase. Too me, the firing was a knee jerk reaction. If there was too be one, Allen alone should have gone for not giving Gruden a real QB when he repeatedly tried to get one during the past few drafts. But firing the best coach you've had (Dungy would not have won as many games with the same talent level that we've had over the past few years), and putting inexperienced guys in charge speaks volumes on why the move was made - money. Sure they still have to pay Gruden and Allen, but they won't have to pay any of the bonuses, and if they get rehired, no more pay outs. Further, just look at what we've done in FA. Need I say more?
When McKay was here, there was even less say for Gruden, which affected three of the drafts he was here for. He wanted Westbrook, for example. He got guys like Marquise Walker, Chris Simms, and others that he didn't want. Gruden wasn't allowed to purchase the groceries (to put a little Parcells euphemism into it). He was only allowed to make his wish list.
Too many, even on this site, are so ill-informed about what went on and how things work, that they've formed opinions that, too me, don't make sense. That is the primary issue some of us have with a bunch of you guys. Many of you don't have your facts straight, and don't understand the impacts of things like the ManU purchase. Too me, the firing was a knee jerk reaction. If there was too be one, Allen alone should have gone for not giving Gruden a real QB when he repeatedly tried to get one during the past few drafts. But firing the best coach you've had (Dungy would not have won as many games with the same talent level that we've had over the past few years), and putting inexperienced guys in charge speaks volumes on why the move was made - money. Sure they still have to pay Gruden and Allen, but they won't have to pay any of the bonuses, and if they get rehired, no more pay outs. Further, just look at what we've done in FA. Need I say more?
8:42am, March 29, 2009
scubog
BucHarbour: There are many (not me) who believe Allen was Gruden's puppet GM and would site instances to attempt to prove their point. The truth is, none of us are in the "war room" or are privy to any discussions that take place between the GM, Head Coach, position coaches and scouts.
Our drafts since the mid-90's have been average at best and were handicapped further by the loss of premium selections that would have been the backbone of the team now. Regardless of who had the final call, the team has lacked consistency and talent at the all important QB position. But when you look at the 2005 and 2007 drafts when we had top 5 picks who should the Bucs have drafted; Alex Smith? By the way Brohm is 3rd string in Green Bay.
For whomever was to blame, I think the organization's prevailing thought or hope was that Gruden could do with anyone what he was able to accomplish with cast-off Rich Gannon. It just didn't work this time. To Gruden's and McKays credit, they pieced together an offense in 2002 that was just enough during the play-off run to get a championship. Something Dungy couldn't do.
Unfortunately, Allen and Gruden came in as the talent on defense was growing past it's peak and the talent on offense was spotty. Because of the lack of draft picks they tried to make another play-off run with free agents that didn't work out either.
It's a shame those draft picks were lost but we did get a championship from the trade for Gruden. It was the Glazers who stepped up to get him when McKay wanted Marvin Lewis. If someone in authority had acquired a true franchise QB we probably wouldn't be having these discussions but I don't recall any really being available.
Because of all the talk about the Bucs not doing enough in free agency; I did a quick check of the free agent signings. Since some people think it doesn't count to sign one's own free agents I disregarded that even though the Bucs signed the top wide-out. The Bucs signed three players from outside including the top running back and one of the top linebackers as well as a kicker who the Bucs were high on when he was drafted.
Maybe the PR boys can do a little better research but there are a few teams that have signed zero free agents, seven or eight teams that signed only one, nine or so that signed two, five teams that signed three (like the Bucs). Denver, who changed staffs has signed the most at seven, with New England, Baltimore and Detroit signing five. It seems to me the Bucs are at least in the middle of the pack; not lagging behind like some seem to think.
Unless you guys are able to hack into the Glazer's financial holdings, you really don't know about their cash flow any more than any of us do.
Gruden was inexperienced when he was made Head Coach of the Raiders as was Rich McKay when he was named GM. McKay surrounded himself with personnel people one of whom was a young Mark Dominik to go along with Bears GM Jerry Angello and Seahawk GM Tim Ruskell. Heck we just elected an inexperience president.
Our drafts since the mid-90's have been average at best and were handicapped further by the loss of premium selections that would have been the backbone of the team now. Regardless of who had the final call, the team has lacked consistency and talent at the all important QB position. But when you look at the 2005 and 2007 drafts when we had top 5 picks who should the Bucs have drafted; Alex Smith? By the way Brohm is 3rd string in Green Bay.
For whomever was to blame, I think the organization's prevailing thought or hope was that Gruden could do with anyone what he was able to accomplish with cast-off Rich Gannon. It just didn't work this time. To Gruden's and McKays credit, they pieced together an offense in 2002 that was just enough during the play-off run to get a championship. Something Dungy couldn't do.
Unfortunately, Allen and Gruden came in as the talent on defense was growing past it's peak and the talent on offense was spotty. Because of the lack of draft picks they tried to make another play-off run with free agents that didn't work out either.
It's a shame those draft picks were lost but we did get a championship from the trade for Gruden. It was the Glazers who stepped up to get him when McKay wanted Marvin Lewis. If someone in authority had acquired a true franchise QB we probably wouldn't be having these discussions but I don't recall any really being available.
Because of all the talk about the Bucs not doing enough in free agency; I did a quick check of the free agent signings. Since some people think it doesn't count to sign one's own free agents I disregarded that even though the Bucs signed the top wide-out. The Bucs signed three players from outside including the top running back and one of the top linebackers as well as a kicker who the Bucs were high on when he was drafted.
Maybe the PR boys can do a little better research but there are a few teams that have signed zero free agents, seven or eight teams that signed only one, nine or so that signed two, five teams that signed three (like the Bucs). Denver, who changed staffs has signed the most at seven, with New England, Baltimore and Detroit signing five. It seems to me the Bucs are at least in the middle of the pack; not lagging behind like some seem to think.
Unless you guys are able to hack into the Glazer's financial holdings, you really don't know about their cash flow any more than any of us do.
Gruden was inexperienced when he was made Head Coach of the Raiders as was Rich McKay when he was named GM. McKay surrounded himself with personnel people one of whom was a young Mark Dominik to go along with Bears GM Jerry Angello and Seahawk GM Tim Ruskell. Heck we just elected an inexperience president.
12:02pm, March 29, 2009
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