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Morris, Dominik Recap Bucs' 2009 Draft

Bucs head coach Raheem Morris and general manager Mark Dominik in the War Room at One Buc Place (Matt May - Buccaneers)

Bucs head coach Raheem Morris and general manager Mark Dominik in the War Room at One Buc Place (Matt May - Buccaneers)

Tampa Bay wrapped up the 2009 NFL Draft on Sunday. Buccaneers head coach Raheem Morris and general manager Mark Domink discussed the the team's draft picks with the media on Sunday evening. Read their comments on the newest Bucs in this Q&A session from their press conferences.



 

The 2009 NFL Draft is officially in the books for Tampa Bay Buccaneers first-year head coach Raheem Morris and general manager Mark Dominik.

The Bucs selected quarterback Josh Freeman (first round), Texas defensive tackle Roy Miller (third round), USC defensive end Kyle Moore, Illinois offensive tackle Xaiver Fulton, Western Michigan cornerback E.J. Biggers and Oregon State wide receiver Sammie Stroughter in the 2009 NFL Draft.

Morris and Dominik fielded questions from the local media shortly after the draft concluded on Sunday evening.

Read their thoughts on Tampa Bay's 2009 draft class in the Q&A session below.

Bucs head coach Raheem Morris

Opening statement
“We filled a couple of needs today, and we feel really good about it. We added a bunch of good players. We created more competition. We felt great about everything.”

Will defensive tackle Roy Miller play early?
“I think a couple of guys can step in and play right away. I definitely think Roy can. He definitely has the ability to. I don’t see why not. I think his attitude and work ethic is going to carry him through. That’s the difference between the pros and college game. The guys that come in ready to work harder than everybody else usually play.”

Will Miller play left or right defensive tackle?
“We are kind of a right and left team now. He’ll play both. He’ll hold up in any gap you put him in, take on the double teams and provide a cushion against the run. He can cause some havoc in there to free up the ends to get around to the quarterback. It’s a good fit for us.”

Do you like Miller’s mental toughness?
“That’s been coming up a lot today. I want every single pick we made today to feel like they should have been picked yesterday. You love that mentality. We want these guys to come in here and be excited and ready to compete. That’s the environment we’re trying to create.”

Will DE Kyle Moore compete on the left side?
“That’s the plan, to put him on the left side to compete with Jimmy Wilkerson and let them fight it out. Two dogs and one bone. That’s the mentality. Put them in thre and let them go at it.”

What do you think of your outside pass rush at defensive end with the addition of Moore?
“The ends got a lot of the pass rush for us last year. We felt like we lacked it in the middle. When we went to our go package we put Stylez White on the right and Gaines Adams on the left. Both of those guys got it going. But we lost the push a little in the middle. A big guy like Kyle [Moore] you can slide inside for a presence that we haven’t had around here in a long time. We can slide him inside and have him work with Ryan Sims to create that push, or maybe with one of the other guys to do that. If we can create that push inside you might see a more fired up Gaines or a more fired up Stylez. We’ll see how it goes on the field.”

Can you talk about cornerback E.J. Biggers?
“We had him projected a little higher and rolled the dice a little bit. You’re talking about a 4.3 guy in the 40. He shows a lot of bump-man skills on tape. He came inside their building pumped up. He’s a good kid. Great character and presence. We’re fired up to get a 6-foot corner that can run 4.3. He can come in and compete. I’m excited about E.J. Biggers.”

What about wide receiver Sammie Stroughter?
“We had a chance to get him and we did. To get him where we did with as much production as he’s had in his career is great. He’s excited. I talked to Sabby Piscitelli, who was raving about this kid, telling me how he can help us and create some excitement in the slot. Stroughter is probably a 4.5 guy, but he’s got that Peanut about him because he’s a lot faster than that on the field when he sticks his hand down on the ground and moves.”

How do you feel about the cornerback position right now?
“We’re starting Aqib Talib at left corner. Ronde is the aging veteran that keeps making plays for us. Now we added a guy like Elbert Mack, who we fell in love with last year, and E.J. Biggers today. We have some great guys in the hopper from the practice squad. Kyle Arrington is ready to step up and play. These guys are going to compete and play. We’ll add some more guys in free agency to get another Elbert Mack.”

Where are the holes you need to address in terms of the undrafted free agents you might target now?
“We’re calling people now. There are obviously a few holes you want to fill. We didn’t draft a safety obviously, so we might go through free agency.”

Talk about tackle Xavier Fulton
“You get this guy and you have possibly swing tackles that can play some guard. He’s a big, strong athletic guy. We’re fired up to get a guy like that. He can go out and play some left or right tackle for us. We could move him to guard. Our team is better, and our depth is better today.”

Can you talk about DE Kyle Moore’s intangibles?
“When you meet the young man you’ll notice a swagger. He’s very confident. He went to USC and had a lot of success. When you have a chance to add him to your team and D-line it’s got to help you and you have to feel good about it. The first two guys we took in the draft – Josh Freeman and Roy Miller – they were captains on their teams. They bring those qualities to our team. That’s what we need.”

Bucs general manager Mark Dominik

Are the Buccaneers a better team after this draft?
“Yeah. We are a better team. We’re excited about the guys that we have obviously added to the football team today and yesterday. We’re certainly a better football team. We’ve created some really good competition, especially at the defensive line. A lot of people sit here and feel like we have hit on a lot of needs throughout the draft. We were able to take a couple guys towards the end that we thought had an interesting future and I think they will be interesting guys for our fans to watch. Our scouts are excited about it and I know our coaches are, too.”

Was the focus on the second day on defense?
“Yes, it was important, especially on the defensive line. We understood that we wanted to add more men that are going to help create that competition at defensive end and defensive tackle. We got a corner late in the draft that we felt could really push some of the younger guys on our team. That was kind of the focus today, but at the same time, we were able to grab a tackle [in Xavier Fulton] that we think has a big future and a real strong possibility. He’s new to the position, but those two years of experience were very important to us. And then we took a receiver that we feel is a real dynamic playmaker that I think you’ll see on the highlights.”

Did you have any indication about what the response was going to be drafting a quarterback in the first round and the scrutiny that came with that decision?
“I was very aware. I have been apart of this organization for 14 years. I got to start with it when [linebacker Derrick] Brooks and [defensive tackle Warren] Sapp stepped in the door. I understand this town and how important defense is to it. The year before I got here was the last time we took a quarterback in the first round [with Trent Dilfer in 1994]. I knew there was going to be some reservations about that considering what this town is so used to and what it’s all about. But I am excited about what we did yesterday in terms of the long-term direction and plan for this franchise. So it was an important position for us to obviously address, so we did that yesterday.”

What did you see in Josh Freeman?
“Last year, we went to play the Kansas City Chiefs and I had the opportunity to see Josh Freeman play live. That was another part of the evaluation. I saw KU play K-State. That was a great tool. I walked on the field in pre-game and I was amazed at his size, his arm strength and his delivery. With all the pre-game stuff you were thinking, ‘Wow. This guy has a lot of talent.’ But there were some questions with him that you just couldn’t answer. When we walked through him and started the draft preparation to taking him with the first pick this year, he continued to check the boxes on things that were important to us. The nice thing was having Raheem Morris and the insight to the things you don’t know. Does he love football? What time does he show up every day? What time did he show up at K-State? Is he a leader? Do the guys in the locker room like him? Do they respond to him? Raheem was able to address some of those big questions you are worried about at the quarterback position. That’s why we were confident in taking him.”

Will the Bucs look at bringing back Kevin Carter or does Kyle Moore answer the questions at left defensive end?
“We’re excited about having Kyle Moore be on the football team and compete with Jimmy Wilkerson at left defensive end. Kyle is going to be a versatile player for us. He’s 270. I think he has the ability to be bigger. Our coaches are excited about him because he has the ability at his size to go inside to rush the passer possibly on third down. So he has that versatility that we are looking for in this defense. It’s a nice complement to Roy Miller and what he brings as a defensive tackle as a run-stuffing, tough, physical guy. He brings it every down as a run stopper. Now we have the ability to take Kyle Moore, who might be our left end and also put him inside. So those two really are a nice combination.”

How do you feel about the team’s pass rush right now?
“We’re comfortable with where we’re at. Jimmy Wilkerson played spot time and had a lot of sacks for us. Obviously, Greg White has had a lot of sacks for us over the last two years. I think he’s had 13 sacks. We expect more out of Gaines [Adams] and I think Gaines expects more out of Gaines. I think this defense fits Gaines to a ‘T.’ I think Jim Bates and his philosophy will also use the linebackers more as blitzers. So we expect to get more pressure. We want to stop the run and attack the quarterback. Today, I think those two pieces (in Miller and Moore) will surprise people with what they can do because of their tenacity, especially a Roy Miller because he brings it every down. That gets you extra sacks because now Gaines is pinching the edge and Roy is pushing the middle and hopefully meeting in the middle. It’s the same thing with Moore. He has the flexibility to be an outside and an inside pass rusher, and that was part of the attraction was his inside pass rush.”

Is this a year of discovery for you where you will play some defensive players who haven’t had the opportunity to start or play a lot and see if they rise or fall?
“That’s a good question. That’s very true. It goes back to the question about Kevin Carter. Out of respect to Kevin Cater – and he’s a very good football player, a fine football player – this gives the opportunity for a Kyle Moore and a Jimmy Wilkerson to step into a role for them to play not only in 2009, but who is going to be our left end in 2010 and 2011? This opportunity is now in front of them. We’re looking forward to them taking advantage of it. I think that will happen at linebacker, cornerback and defensive line. It will happen on offense with the receiver we drafted in the seventh round. We expect him to compete and push some of those other receivers that have been on this team for years.”

You didn’t draft a linebacker. Is that position still a work in progress or are you set to go into the season with the linebackers you have?
“I think we’re really close. We may sign one college free agent. I think we have one guy targeted and as soon as the draft is over we’re going to call him up and see if we can get him. After that, I think we’re real comfortable with where we are. I do like [Angelo] Crowell. I think he’ll be on the field full-time in May. Obviously, Barrett Ruud is in the middle and I think we have great competition at the Will linebacker spot with Jermaine Phillips and Geno Hayes. So for us, the way we are sitting here today, I feel comfortable that we have addressed the linebacker position.”

How were the owners apart of this draft?
“They are the owners. They get the inside information that a lot of people would love to have. They certainly value the discussions that we’ve had all the way through the seventh round I’ve talked to them about. I’ve talked to them about this is the player we are selecting and this is why we are selecting them.”

Was selecting a quarterback in the first round something that the Glazers felt strongly about doing?
“I would say that it is far, but I think it was Raheem and I saying this is the direction we would really like to go. Obviously they are excited about Josh.”

Successful quarterbacks have a swagger to them. Does Freeman have that alpha male presence?
“Can he be an alpha male? Sure. Once he proves it on the football field. I think you become a little more alpha male when you show everybody that you are the big dog, and no offense to [Steve] Duemig. I think once you show it on the field, you have a better opportunity to prove that you are the big dog. Do I think he has that in him? Absolutely. When you get a chance to meet him, and you’ve been around him a little bit he’s not arrogant, he’s not cocky, he is just confident. You get a good feeling around him.”

What is your plan for Freeman in terms of getting on the field?
“Our plan would really be to compete with the four quarterbacks we take to camp, and let his talent show. I understand he’s 21. I’ve seen it where it helps if they sit. I saw last year where the guys played themselves on the football field, but I do realize he’s a young quarterback, and ideally you’d like those guys to learn a little bit, prepare, and get caught up to the game. We’ll see how it goes in the preseason.”

You said the team has to do a better job of drafting on the second day. Why do you believe that happened this year?
“Well I think today, we did have a good day. Every general manager stands up today and says, ‘I had a good day.’ I think it will show in August when everybody is hopefully out here seeing our games and our young players step up. I think it will show with Roy Miller. We drafted a leader. A lot of people were concerned about the leadership we lost. Obviously Raheem and I were just as concerned about that. The first two selections were team captains voted by their teammates. It is more important for us to bring leadership back in with some of the youthful players too. I think it will show in time.”

The contract extensions you gave Kellen Winslow with two-years left on his contract breaks a practice of former general manager Bruce Allen, who wouldn’t give extensions when a player had two-plus seasons remaining on his contract. Was there any trepidation to do that because it could cause other players to ask for new contracts or similar extensions?
“I would say to that I have a feeling that Jon Gruden and Bruce Allen and what they did here … things are a lot different. Obviously Jon, as I watched and listened today was raving about Josh Freeman – that was nice to hear. For us in terms of precedent, the Philadelphia Eagles traded a one, and a four, and a six for an offensive tackle that had two years left on his deal. I think it is different when you make a commitment with the draft picks, you don’t take it lightly. When you make a commitment with a draft pick you have committed to that player. For us with Kellen Winslow, it was a long-term decision with him as well, and that is why we went ahead and did the deal with him. We are excited to bring in here. I think you’ll see that on the field when you see him in practice and see him in the games.”

 

Comments

mkurbo

Thank you Joel Glazer !

I hope you watched a real professional NFL Head Coach on the NFL Network today in Jon Gruden. Did you see him next to Mark Sanchez ?

Oh my God, did you see Raheem (complete and utter boobalou idiot on ESPN ?) What an embarrassment to the NFL, Bucs, and Tampa Bay. I am totally ashamed by what you have done to this franchise with your decision process – you have condemned this franchise to the bottom ranks of NFL teams.

Please note: If anyone has a need for Buc items like footballs, hats, shirts, all sorts of Buc branded goodies for their children – I’d rather box it up and send it your way for the kids than throw it out. Just email me a note…

Morris and Dominik were a disgrace yje last two days and I’m done with the Bucs – period !

10:47pm, April 26, 2009

tbay or no way

imm lovin it

Go bucs

10:57pm, April 26, 2009

tiggerchuck

Im with you mkurbo,im so sick of hearing they must know something! I heard the same crap when the U.S. invaded Iraq and you see what happened there! This is ignorance on a whole new level.You think the Lions were bad the last couple of years,Dominik will make Millen look like a genius by the time he is kicked out and the Bucs will be in Los Angeles! I didnt renew my season tickets before this and im laughing now!

11:01pm, April 26, 2009

JDouble

Well I'm not going to bother trying to convince all the negative haters why they should be happy, but I sure am. Is the Freeman pick scary? Sure is, but all you can do as a fan is hope he becomes our elite QB for the next 15 years.

I'm not sold on Rheem yet either. He does come off as somewhat of an idiot in interviews. That doesn't mean he won't be a great coach, but he will have to prove it to me and many others.

I know that Rheem might be a bust, Freeman might be a bust, this draft might be a bust....but noone will know for a few years and I for one am very stoked to see what our offense can do and what guys step up on defense. Go Bucs!

11:14pm, April 26, 2009

termig8r

Needs Still There:
1. Speed Rush End
2. Corner back
3. Speed Receiver
4. FS

How many times did we hear (Ray) Miller's name mentioned? Can you tell they think this guy's a beast?

BTW, I'm so excited we got Kyle Orton!

11:24pm, April 26, 2009

BMurph

lol, later mkurbo and tigger, typical fairweather fans, please dont come back here anytime soon.

11:39pm, April 26, 2009

Snook

mkurbo and tigger... you guys are pathetic.

Glad you're off the bandwagon...

11:47pm, April 26, 2009

BucWild02

I didn't watch Dominik or Morris discuss the picks on TV. I don't care how they fumble around the press conference. The fact is, Tampa has put together a hell of an arsenal on offense this offseason. Why so NEGATIVE? Think about it. Has Tampa had such reason for optimism with regard to offense, ever? I can really only remember one year. 1997. Two decent backs, a big fullback, a big "franchise QB", a young couple of receivers in Copeland, Anthony, and Karl "the Truth" Williams. Freeman is no Dilfer. Have you seen the kid rollout and flick it? Or roll out and run it? Scary impressive at 6'6", 250lbs.

12:04am, April 27, 2009

BucWild02

I'm pumped up about this year! Offense is gonna be awesome...finally!

Lineup highlights...
OL-Penn,Sears,Faine,Joseph.Trublood and solid depth
RB-Ward, Graham, Caddy Williams, Peanut Smith
TE- WInslow, Stevens, Smith, Gilmore
WR-Bryant, Clayton, Jackson, Stovall, Hunter
QB-Freeman, Mccown, Leftwich, Johnson

Freeman has a great looking rollout. He squares his shoulders up and makes big throws rolling in either direction. He's fast enough to make you pay for letting him run with it. He shows great touch on check downs. The minute you stop respecting the deep pass is the time he exploits your defense for 6. Exciting Offense FINALLY.

12:26am, April 27, 2009

BucWild02

To all conspiracy theorists, consider this: Defense wins championships, but offense sells tickets. Glazers need to get that cash flowing again to pay for Man U. Get ready for some O, finally.

12:28am, April 27, 2009

BuccanAy

You can definitely tell the PR guys' questions, as opposed the other media present, after watching the video. Good questions, SR and CC.

12:31am, April 27, 2009

lbwhitesrt

tigerchuck dont ever compare this to the us military's tactics in iraq or afghanistan. There are many members on this board that have sacrificed alot so that eveyone can continue to live your lives. Have we been hit by another terrorist attack?! Mission accomplished. But that's here nor there


The FO did a GREAT job with their first draft. If that's what we can expect from only a 4 month work up from the hc and gm, i cant wait til they get a full season

12:49am, April 27, 2009

par4101

Our new GM Mark Dominik has done a great job of adding alot of new players this offseason. We are solid right now. We haven't loss to much this offseason. I thought Brooks and Gruden were going to retire to the booth anyway. Its great to be a BUC.

2:17am, April 27, 2009

kingrich

i liked the draft they picked 2 players from my mock draft, im excited but also prepared to be embarressed alot this season

4:13am, April 27, 2009

tomorrow437

I feel sorry for you miserable F***s that call yourself a sports fan and declare that you are done with the Bucs. I have lived here my whole life and will be a Bucs fan till the day I die. I think Freeman will be a lot better than most people think but that is besides the point. If you are a true fan you will stick by your team and not wine on message boards that a draft didn't go your way and that you are jumping off the wagon, what a self righteous prick. You are probably the same guy that cried when your Mommy wouldn't buy you a toy in the store or when she bought you the M&M's with the peanuts instead of the ones without. You can keep your old Bucs gear because it probably smells like self pity and shame. Go ahead and leave, we don't need losers like you as a fan anyway. Go cry to someone else and stop wasting all of our time with your stupid comment. The Bucs aren't complaining that your Mom didn't have an abortion even though she would have made the right choice, unfortunately for her she couldn't move up to draft a better child.. Just go away all of you naysayers and do all of us real fans a favor and drop dead...

Go Bucs!!!

4:56am, April 27, 2009

bucfan47

1bucfanjeff - With all due respect just because Raheem Morris is the head coach doesn't make him qualified. He's never been a head coach so the issues are legit. They have made some very questionable decisions and there's a reason EVERYONE outside of this message board will give the draft grade no better than what I said earlier, Grade = D.

1:21pm, April 27, 2009

scubog

It's funny how some people get a negative impression about Morris' intelligence because he exudes a genuine excitement and tends to talk fast. People used to say the same thing about Doug Williams and his Louisiana country drawl. Tony Dungy came across so quiet and laid back some people thought he wouldn't succeed because of it. I wonder how some of these posters would be scrutinized for their words of wit.

I lived through "Lemon" Bennett and the back to back 2-14 seasons. Can't you people at least wait until we complete a season before assessing Morris' coaching ability? He was hired to coach not be the anchor on the debate team.

Kellen Winslow was on the radio the other day and spoke highly of Morris saying that , "the players will run through a wall for him." That's a lot better than the players wanting to "go over the wall."

How about we wait until week 8?

7:06am, April 27, 2009

Horse

Okay the draft is over. I'm not happy about it, but it is what it is. Now I move on and support our team.
Go Bucs! Win ,Win, Win!

7:50am, April 27, 2009

ir8toldman

Negativity really won't accomplish anything. It is allowed since we live in a free country and not a communist state (yet), but all it does is detract from the progress that has to be made from a broken football team. We had to get younger and faster and we have. If you want to leave from being a fan, then don't let the door hit you where the good lord split you....

8:54am, April 27, 2009

JDouble

Man, I laid in bed last night and couldn't even fall asleep I was so excited. I can't even get where the negative guys are coming from. I think it's a good day to be a Buc fan.

I think everyone would agree we are pretty set on offense. We will need to look for an exciting new RB thru the draft in 2-3 years, and we could still use a solid number two WR if noone steps up this year....but overall we have better peices than I can remember. On paper our offense should be alot of fun to watch!

On defense you have alot of people screaming DOOM! but I don't think it's that bad. In the secondary we are set at SS, FS, and one CB. I think Barber isn't as good as he was, but he can be an awesome #2 CB. I believe Crowell was a steal and will be a starter here for a long time along with Ruud. That leaves ALOT of hungry young LBs competing for that last OLB position. Whoever wins out should do a good job. Last is the D-line. It's probably still out biggest weakness, but with the new defensive scheme you never know. Some of our existing guys might be alot more productive in this type of scheme. Plus we have two new guys to add depth and competition.

Overall I think we could end up being pretty damn good next year. Unfortunetly we have a very hard schedule and I don't think we will end with a great record. No matter what happens, I can't remember being this excited for a new season to start. Can't wait to watch all the new faces and see how things progress.

Go Bucs!

9:24am, April 27, 2009

Horse

I get the USA Today M-F and consider the Sports Section good. They gave the Bucs a "D+". We were next to last on the bottom of their rating. Oakland was last.
Not negative, just the way it is.
It's our draft, their our players, and now we want them to win for us.
Just because one believes that we had a poor draft does not make one a non supportive Buc Fan. They are still my team and I want them to Win.
Go Bucs!

9:29am, April 27, 2009

1bucfanjeff

For all the haters giving up, later - and don't come back.

I've been following the Bucs since 81. I have never left a game or turned off the TV until that clock is zero. I live in Charlotte now and get abuse DAILY - I don't care. I'm proud of them when they take the field, regardless of the players. I support them and trust they will make decisions with the best interest of the team in mind. I like Freeman, they obviously did too. If they feel he is the franchise QB, then so do I. They did well in the draft. Could it have been better? Sure. We could have given up our 1st and 3rd next year along with whatever else to have 2 picks in the first or trade back or any other scenario and most people on here would be screaming "hell yes" or just screaming. It could have been worse too, way worse. They plugged holes, drafted for future, and drafted for now. It's still not good enough for a lot of you. I can't wait for the season to begin so I can disect every play every second, to yell and scream at the TV, slap high five with my 4yr old daughter or fist bump my 7yr old son. My wife will laugh at my antics - good or bad, and even spout info that leaves me impressed on occassion. I bleed Pewter and Red, hell - still some orange, but I'm a fan and what they do is good enough for me - and it should be for you.

9:50am, April 27, 2009

Bucco63

Hey mkurbo

You can send all your Buc gear to me. Thanks!

10:13am, April 27, 2009

gruss81602

Absolutely well said 1bucfanjeff!!!

GO BUCS!!

All bandwagoners can now disembark and please don't return!!

10:14am, April 27, 2009

TbC_Bucs

I havent been this impressed with a buccaneers draft ever. I know they have to come in an play now but I think we may have hit on several players here. I don't care what anyone here says, this is the most exciting draft since 1995.

10:48am, April 27, 2009

mkurbo

Bucco63 – Sure ! Maybe PR can help by sending my email to you and you can supply an address ? Hope you have some kids…

I been a huge and very passionate Buc fan, but everyone is entitled to their position. This is organizational (football) genocide occurring at One Buc Place and blind (Kool-Aid) support of ownership is not the answer.

The GM is a strategic position. Every move by that office this off season has been very poor:

1.) From the trade for a position (TE) we didn’t need and loss of draft picks
2.) To the ill timed and poorly thought out release of veterans
3.) To the lack of focus and production in FA (Haynesworth)
4.) To the misuse of salary cap on Winslow
5.) To the inability to bring Cutler here
6.) To the stupidity of signing Leftwich
7.) To premature draft pick trades
8.) Too bad judgment in the draft…

Raheem Morris is not ready to be a NFL Head Coach – he is way too immature and inexperienced in the NFL.

10:50am, April 27, 2009

1bucfanjeff

mkurbo, You are citing specific items which you cannot support. It is your opinion, but to disengage as a fan because you don't like their moves is, well, childish. You can't call yourself a fan, ever.

If you are so knowledgable, send your application to One Buc Place - because you obviously don't work there now. Never will.

Now take your toys and go home.

11:05am, April 27, 2009

buccup56

I am very shocked about the negative comments about our draft and our staff I cant believe you guys are still on the Gruden and allen bandwangon. First off Gruden just amitted that Jackson was a reach and a bust 2nd our stuff has put together damn good offesens, we have AB, Winslow ward and very young talented o line. and last but not least we just filled our awful d line. So I ask you how can you not be happy about our chances. So what if our d isnt what t use to be, its time for our O to put points up then let our d do there thing. Face it folks Kiffin gave up on us in the best time of season and thats who you want will screw you go cheer for the Vols and leave it up to us real buc fans to shine when are holding up the Chip

11:29am, April 27, 2009

buccup56

And look Jdub no caps from this grown @ss man LOL

11:31am, April 27, 2009

lprock22

This is the lowest I have felt as a Bucs fan in a long time....nearly the complete opposite of how I felt on that february evening in 2003.

I am unsure of the changes and new direction of this team and I feel like we made a mjor mistake in drafting Freeman and have essentially mortgaged our future for the next 5-6 years. Can someone explain to me how a kid who didn't even produce decent numbers (or at least throw for 3000 yds) in college is going to suddenly become a franchise QB at the next level? Do you all think he's just going to jump in to the NFL and go 'wow this is so much easier than college, I'll suddenly become a consistent passer and decicion maker'?. I just don't understand it, if you didn't produce in college you generally won't produce in the NFL especially at the QB position, I don;t care how good a kid is coached up, you can only improve skills not give them. I feel like everyone form the owners to the fans wanted a QB so bad that we reached and took one just because he was there....that's always a bad reason to do something.

That being said, I am a true Bucs fan and I will cross my fingers and hope I am wrong about Freeman and the direction we are taking....I will support this team through thick and thin but I am very very unsure of all of this right now.

For better or worse...Go Bucs.

11:40am, April 27, 2009

monrovits1

mkurbo- how about waiting to see what happens with the product on the field before a judgment is made. I would think you would do this considering you have been such a die hard fan. There needed to be a change. Gruden had lost the team. I have been a die hard Bucs fan for many years too and am excited to see what will happen with the new regime. Let's wait and see what happens.

12:32pm, April 27, 2009

sunrisejeff

Yep yep draft is over now so let the war of words between fans begin...all the coulda woulda shoulda's. Lord knows we are all better evaluaters of talent than coaches in the NFL could ever hope to be! Personally I like the draft. Freeman may be a reach to some at 17 but he was the best QB left on the board and could turn out to be a well groomed young prospect that we have all been wanting for a long time. Fans that want to jump off the wagon...have fun...I'm sure the Pats or Steelers can use some more seasonal sheep in their fan base. And that comment isn't directed at fans like you Horse....I respect you as a fan...although you may not agree with some of the decisions you continue to support your team and show hope and thats all we can do as fans. I'm with JDub however I really don't see us being "the worst team to ever snap the football" as some of the so called fans on here seem to. Let's see what this season holds for us....every fan knows football is a game of inches so let's cheer our asses off to get those few feet that can make a season a success. If we struggle then so be it.....we will worry about that at the end of the season going into next years draft.......until then Go Bucs! Play hard, have fun and let's keep this Pirate ship afloat!

12:32pm, April 27, 2009

bucfan47

sunrisejeff - "Lord knows we are all better evaluaters of talent than coaches in the NFL could ever hope to be!"

That's a fact now that the league has the Oakland Raiders still involved in the draft.

With the 15th pick of the 2nd round the Oakland Raiders select "Marvin Mitchell", safety from Ohio....That's not Ohio State I might add.

Wow...can you honestly believe the commissoiner hasn't stepped in to get involved with their drafts?

wait...wait...want another one...I got more....

With the 7th pick of the 3rd round the Oakland Raiders select "Matt Shaughnessy" DE from Wisconsin.



1:33pm, April 27, 2009

buccup56

Shaughnessy is a decent End I may add but I will ryde or dye for my bucs

1:45pm, April 27, 2009

gg72049

Mkurbo, let me address your points of contention!

1. Trading a number 2 pick for Winslow was a great move. Who wouldn't give up that draft choice for someone who can catch 60 to 80 passes a year and along with Stevens play a position that is like a receiver and be covered by safeties and linebackers. Your point about his new contract has merit as I would have waited one more year before he got a new contract.

2. The release of Brooks, Dunn, June was due based on their play. Brooks should have been given an oppourtunity to retire but he still wanted to play and not sit on the bench. With prospect of getting Ward or Morris wanting to get younger, I agree with releasing Dunn. Neither has been picked up by anybody so what does that tell you about their future. June was an average linebacker so it was time to give the younger guys a shot or get someone like Crowel to take his place.

3. They did about as much as you can do to get Haynesworth, but if he wanted big signing bonus , then it was out of Morris and Dominics hands. Blame the Glaziers for that one. They tried to get Cutler and if Denver didn't want McCown instead of Orton, that is as far as they should have gone since they matched Chicago's picks other than Orton.

4. The signing of Leftwich was a good move because it gives the Bucs competition at QB and if McCown wins then Leftwich is a great back-up and teacher of his knowledge and experience of the game. If they cut him, it will cause the Bucs nothing on their salary cap as his contract is back loaded.

5. If they thought that another team was going to jump ahead of them in drafting Freeman and that is who they thought was the man they wanted. I agree with what they did. If he doesn't turn out to be the QB they think, then it will look like a bonehead move. Man, give them the chance to prove everyone of you doomsday prophets wrong and then come back and tell us what asses they were. Playing for that sorry team at Kansas and what everyone is saying is those poor coaches, this kid with the right coaching and players around him could turn out to be a damn great pick. Brady was really impressive in college too.

6. I love Miller as their second pick and the only reservation I have is not taking Sidburry instead of Moore with their fourth pick. But I will wait until the next season is done and see who played better before I think it was a stupid pick. Let these players play for one or two years before you crucify them and call them lousty players. Biggers has the potential to make the team and play the third cornerback and how can't the receiver Strougher make the team and play with the need for help there.

This team would have had retread QBs for the next ten years if Gruden was still here and we still would have had a mediocore offense like we have had for the last 4 years, It was painful watching them play year after year and going for fieldgoals instead of touchdowns. We had to have the lowest percentage of throwing the ball in the end zone when we were in the red zone. And please don't tell me we didn't have the players to do it since Gruden had 5 years to get his players here.Give Morris and Dominic a couple years like you did Gruden before you rant and rave about how bad a job they are doing. .


1:46pm, April 27, 2009

Bucco63

mkurbo,

I tried to search for you to send you a private message. But I couldn't find you. Send me a message and I'll give you my address and you can send anything Buc-related you want to me and my boys.

1:50pm, April 27, 2009

Valo777

how about we wait until are this season to talk about how well this draft class is?

2:16pm, April 27, 2009

Codyman

This is for those so called analysts that make judgement calls on NFL draftees like Josh Freeman, after looking at 3 or 4 game films (all probably from last season). They claim he doesn't make good decisions with the ball, i.e. he forces the ball into coverage, resulting in unnecessary interceptions, reality - his Int's went from 15(Fr yr) to 8(Jr yr), while his TD's went from 6 (Fr. yr) to 20 (Jr yr), so his interceptions went down
subsequently every season he played at Kansas St, while his TD to Int ratio went up. They claim he's only a 50's% completion QB, reality - his 2nd year (Soph yr) he completed
63.33% of his passes went he had quality receivers, he completed 58.64% last season with poor talent at the receivers position. They claim he has poor footwork, reality - most of today's QB's coming out of the spread and shot-gun type offenses have this problem; listen, he's an intelligent and self-motivated player, this can be fixed, it only takes sufficient reps and a good QB coach. Remember these analysts have their jobs because of the ability to second guess others, not because they know how to solve any of the issues they talk about, or they would be coaches. Being a good coach is similar to being a good teacher, not every player or student
can be one, especially the really good ones. Mark Dominick and Raheem Morris have been well schooled for their jobs, as should be realized by the attention they drew from other teams, but they also have that vitality and what some call the "It" factor to lead this team. You know you want it to happen, come on, get on-board, quit fighting it.

2:22pm, April 27, 2009

Colorado Buc

The analysts who are paid to make their comments are not always right and some are downright scary with their predictions. So why would I listen to amateurs who voice their opinions on this board? And why do many of the comments sound so hateful? I thought this was supposed to be for people who love their team, not despise it.

I was for Jon Gruden the day he got here and went to training camp for the first time because I was so excited for what I thought he would bring to Tampa - the Superbowl! I looked forward to Bruce Allen's leadership to recover us from the McKay diaster - salary cap hell. Since then, McKay was recognized for what he was - nor a good judge of football talent - and banished from football operations while Allen got us under the salary cap with room to maneuver and pick up people like Winslow whom we never would have been able to afford before.

I have to say I'm kinda excited about what the new regime has done so far. I think we will have an exciting team to watch (yes, offense brings in more people than defense). I don't know how our defense will do, but I'm willing to wait and find out. I will support Mark Domink and Raheem Morris, just as I did their predecessors, because I love this team.

By the way, did you hear Gruden say (several times) that Tampa was one of only seven teams to have back-to-back winning seasons? We're not the perennial losers any more and for that I am thankful!. I don't know how we'll do this year, so I won't make a prediction that I can't support. Like most good fans, I hope for the next Superbowl win as soon as possible. GO BUCS!

2:23pm, April 27, 2009

DLS5492

Well said Colorado Buc!!!!!!!

2:50pm, April 27, 2009

Pewterdude

I like this pick and think it strengthened a position of extreme importance and one of weakness for the Bucs prior to this pick.

Freeman has a very good position coach in Rich Olson and has a great relationship with his head coach so the only thing that is a question IMO in how fast Freeman develops is getting the depth at the WR position. If Bryant gets injured whoever the Buc's starter is at QB will struggle in a verticle offense that has extremely poor depth behind Bryant as WR but does have 3 very good TE's. The Buc's offense is also deep at RB but not set as the WR's are a very weak unit IMO as a whole and are the key to having a complete set of weapons for whomever the starting QB is.

Acquiring a true #2 WR (a burner) and using Clayton as the #3 WR which I think he truly is and he'd be a very good third wideout, along with 2 more dangerous playmaking WRs with speed is absolutely essential for the team's passing game and is the biggest question mark in terms of how long it will take Freeman to develop into the quality starting QB that he has all of the physical tools and coaching to become.

Everyone seems asleep on the fact that the team is still very weak at the WR position and it still needs to be addressed. I read where many fans say "now that the offense has been addressed the team should turn to defense" but the offense has NOT been addressed with the very mediocre group of WRs other than Bryant.

Props for drafting a franchise QB with a strong arm who will be well coached, for adding quality to the RB stable and having great depth at that position, for signing another veteran QB (Leftwhich) to take a position of weakness to now a very competent unit with the addition of Freeman and for adding a PK with range on kickoffs and FG's but one very important aspect is still very subpar and will determine how quickly Freeman can adapt to the NFL: subpar WR unit

Adding a minimum of two WR's will make Freeman a very good pick and I see him as a can't miss prospect because of his size, armstrength, mobility and ability to make every throw required of a QB....now just go get him some quality NFL targets to throw to and Freeman will flourish for the Bucs. If they sign a true #2 WR I predict greatness for Freeman and it will come a lot sooner than later with added speed at WR. Great pick. Many of you will be eating crow.....

Mkurbo,

I respect your observations and the many mistakes the Bucs have made this offseason that you stated are factual and it's being stated on many message boards and the Buc's season ticket sales are down NOT because of the economy but Ive read many fans stating many of the things that you posted and especially the classless treatment of Brooks and the "good citizens" and the timing of that move.

I understand your frustration and I was really impressed with Jon Gruden's analysis on NFL Network as he is an absolutely great and classic and extremely well studied head coach. The Glazers have made many dumb decisions this offseason but this is a homer and UNobjective fan forum that simply attacks anyone who isn't a pom pom shaking, blind loyalist to this pathetic mess of a team due to their pathetic ownership. PR's writers are very objective and not as biased as these fans so I hope you understand that this fanbase isn't as objective as many fans who rip their team and praise them accordingly.

This site is a great source of information and insight by it's
writers and staff which is why I read mostly the articles and mostly ignore the fan reaction and only occasionally read the fans reactions because they are some of the most bigoted homers in the league.

I respect your decision to dump this team and I hope you find your pure love of the game by just being a fan of the game or supporting a team that has better mgt than this team does. Your thoughts are being reflected on several blogs and I respect you as a fan and wish you well. Keep speaking your mind freely and don't beleive the hype that many here buy into.

peace

3:03pm, April 27, 2009

sunrisejeff

lol dammit Buc47 I disagree with you alot of the times but then you go and type something like that and make me laugh. Point taken lol!

3:17pm, April 27, 2009

bucfan47

Colorado Buc - Yes, we had 3 of 4 previous seasons with winning records. Not many teams can say that. Thus the reasons why so many people are upset.

So much change at one time, and when we go from 9-7 to 3 - 12 or so, that's hard to stomach. No, it's not happened yet but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out we are going to be one of the worst teams in the league interms of the win column.

I don't care how exciting the team is on the field, I want wins and consistency. The Titans are boring as hell down here in Tennessee to watch, but they're consistent and all they do is win games. That's what keeps teams intact and allows coaches like Jeff Fisher to keep their jobs.

I think everyone including myself just doesn't want to see Tampa Bay go through a series of coaches with this decision. And I gotta be honest, it's great to be positive about any team but realistically, we've got issues everywhere.

We can cover them up with alot of wishful thinking....We hope McCown can lead this season, we hope Freeman develops to save Dominik and Morris' jobs 3-4 years from now....We hope Jim Bates can still coach and his system still works...We hope the D-Line can generate pressure and the LB core can play together...And we sure hope the secondary doesn't suffer any injuries as we are inexperienced and not very good outside of the starting two guys...Who knows about Mack either...

So although there's somethings to be positive about, it's not hard to see why guys are scratching their heads at the decisions of the organization. It's all happened so fast. The new guys deserved to be commended by taking the enormous risk on Josh Freeman like they did.

One things for sure, if he doesn't pan out, we'll have new coaches in a few seasons.

3:24pm, April 27, 2009

trapper

Raheem has been with this team for 14 years,he know's more about the Buck player's and can evaluate talent better than all you PR posters (put together)who think you have a clue about analyzing player talent bye watching film and listening to analyst on T V or radio.You havent been on a team for 14 years like Raheem or watched any of these draft pick's play or interview them or talk to there coach's or give them a try out.You've never coached a player,been a college or pro coach Stop thinking your talant evaluaters because your not.Just sit back and support your Coach's and Players and see what happens.All analyst will tell you they are projecting from college to the pro's and even then you dont know till usually 3 years.Stop trying to act like pro scout's and enjoy what could be the building of the best Buc team ever.
Why not support the Coaches and Players and just be a Buc Fan instead of trying to act like your something your not.

I'M EXCITED about our new direction............GO BUCS !!!!!

3:27pm, April 27, 2009

Pewterdude

Keep in mind that many well studied draft experts and publications stated that this year's draft as a whole is weaker than any draft in several years at all positions. Pro Football Weekly, Mike Mayock of NFL Network just a couple to state this so to expect too much from this draft might be unrealistic, but good coaching can make a huge difference with the position coaches being inspirational teachers of technique, theory and having experience at developing players.

It remains to be seen with the Bucs how many of their position coaches and coordinators can take a weak draft class and develop these somewhat mediocre players compared to other drafts into productive NFL players for several years to come. The early round picks at DT, DE would seem to be a step in the right direction but not addressing the CB and WR positions until the late rounds sounds neglectful of glaring needs especially with Barber really being on a rapid decline IMO. Mack is solid but the depth is not very good and injuries which have plagued the Buc's DBs in the past would suggest a need for greater depth and veteran at that IMO.

Having stated that, I think the progression of QB Josh Freeman will depend on the Bucs acquiring a playmaking #2 Buc WR that's crucial to Freeman's development and the team's depth at receiver a veteran WR with speed, hands and a knowledge of the alleys in zone coverages, good recognition of disguised coverages and blitzes, a receiver who breaks off routes intelligently because Freeman is going to create a lot of plays by being elusive and shaking off many tacklers, and most importantly a WR who can communicate well with Freeman in the huddle about the tendancies of the defense that weren't detected in the team's film study and the adjustments that are crucial in games that weren't prepared for or anticipated by the OC during the week's gameplanning.

This is what I feel will greatly assist Freeman much like a Hines Ward assisted and accelerated Roethlisberger's development in Pittsburgh and both QB's (Freeman and big Ben) have similar attributes IMO.

In Minnesota it was veteran #2 WR (behind Moss) Chris Carter who made Donte Culpepper's transition faster and much smoother. That Viking team had a complete stable of WR's with Jake Reed as well (another example of a good supporting cast of WR's and a solid #2 who is a veteran with experience).

The Bucs lack experience veteran experience as well as speed across the board at WR IMO to speed up the development of Freeman who should be starting after sitting out one season if he has a good group of WR's to mentor him on the field and add that much needed veteran communication between receiver and QB to make the adjustments during the game that the OC didn't anticipate from the defense. Too much youth is not a good thing and it makes a team imbalanced IMO. The Patriots are a very good example of this and they added Galloway, Fred Taylor, and were trying to sign Jason Taylor along with their very good youth and very strong draft and are my pick to win it all barring injuries.

3:31pm, April 27, 2009

trapper

The Bucs are 1 of a handful of teams that has'nt one a PLAYOFF GAME in 6 YEARS.
LIONS,TEXANS,RAIDERS and i think 3 or 4 more teams.

3:33pm, April 27, 2009

trapper

The Bucs got a D rating from most analyst because the analyst thought that the Bucs reached for there players.That has nothing to do withthe players not having talent.Raheem and Staff believed in the players they got and reached to make sure they got them.Skip Bayless loves Freeman and so does Mike Mayock.......the best analysist on TV.So the haters will hate and the real fans will stick by there coaches and players like a real fan should atleast until the coaches and players have had a fair chance to prove themselves.Anybody that cant give there "so-called team" a fair chance to prove themselves is just an ass and truly not a real Buc Fan.

4:05pm, April 27, 2009

Pewterdude

Trapper,

You stated that "Raheem Morris has been with this team for 14 years".....?

Raheem was hired by the Bucs in 2002 and coached at K-State as a DC for a year so that would make only 6 years being affiliated with the Bucs so why do you feel the need to mis state his coaching credentials and ability to evaluate talent.

Morris has NEVER been a coordinator on a NFL team until Gruden promoted him to DC after Kiffin has one foot in Tampa and the other in U of Tenn. and that was in December when the DEFENSE under Morris tanked (injuries to DL contributed) but Barber's pathetic play wasn't due to injury.

Morris is only 32 years old which would make him 18 years old when " he was with the Bucs" as you stated. What the hell are you talking about?

see:http://www.milehighreport.com/2009/1/3/708063/straight-from-the-horse-s

4:08pm, April 27, 2009

Pewterdude

Trapper,

You stated that "Raheem Morris has been with this team for 14 years".....?

Raheem was hired by the Bucs in 2002 and coached at K-State as a DC for a year so that would make only 6 years being affiliated with the Bucs so why do you feel the need to mis state his coaching credentials and ability to evaluate talent.

Morris has NEVER been a coordinator on a NFL team until Gruden promoted him to DC after Kiffin has one foot in Tampa and the other in U of Tenn. and that was in December when the DEFENSE under Morris tanked (injuries to DL contributed) but Barber's pathetic play wasn't due to injury.

Morris is only 32 years old which would make him 18 years old when " he was with the Bucs" as you stated. What the hell are you talking about?

see:http://www.milehighreport.com/2009/1/3/708063/straight-from-the-horse-s

4:08pm, April 27, 2009

bucfan47

There are alot of teams that have not won playoff games in the last 6 years.

Hell, the Dallas Cowboys haven't won a playoff game in 12 years. You still can't deny they are leaps and bounds more talented than we are at the moment.

Fans take winning for granted all the time and when the team is finally brought back down to reality of losing, season after season, it starts to sink in that things aren't well. Management told Tony Gonzalez for years to be patient, that they were going to turn it around...He finally bailed on them and voiced he wanted out...Veteran guys like Antonio Bryant will not stick around if the QB situation and success doesn't pan out. They want to get paid. They care about their families future more.

Players don't play for coaches...It certainly helps to have a good coach, but if everything else doesn't fall in line, they will move on...With WR's, they want stable QB's to get them the ball when they get open, they want to win and make the playoffs, and after so long if no results, they're out.

IMO they've got all kinds of work to do with this franchise to get it back to winning consistent football. You guys are in dream land if you think this team is winning alot of games this season.

How the coaches handle the losing, and how they draft in future seasons and manage the cap will make/break their careers in Tampa.

There are many of us that think they're off on the wrong foot. The signing of Winslow to a long-term deal was not a good decision.

We'll see. I just think they should have drafted differently and the team would have been better off in both the short and long-term. Just because you know you're rebuilding doesn't mean losing is excuseable.

All I know is that the Baltimore Ravens needed a franchise QB back in 1996 but chose to build their franchise through the trenches by selecting Jonathon Ogden and Ray Lewis in round 1 (picks #4 and #26 respectively). They figured if they do that, winning would take care of itself.

Yes, it pains me everyday knowing that Tampa passed up on Ray Lewis, Marvin Harrison, Eric Moulds, and Eddie George. And yes, that was only round 1. In case you wonder who we selected that year, not one but a pair of DE in Regan Upshaw and Marcus Jones.

What happend to Baltimore a few years later after that draft? You guessed it. On Tampa's field, they beat the Giants for the SuperBowl with one of the most impressive defenses the league has ever seen. This draft did not reflect a draft that the Steelers, Titans, or Patriots would have had under their current leadership, EVER!

And I think that's the complaints from most fans as they observe this new direction. At times, you wonder if they have a direction.

I can see the logic in taking Freeman first round. It's easy. If he turns out to be half as good as Ben Roethlisberger or Peyton Manning, they will be employed until they decide to retire. But I still say you pass on Freeman and build the trenches until your team is ready to take a risk on a guy like him. Our D-Line failed to generate 30 sacks last season as a unit. With this upcoming schedule, and the fact we are younger and inexperienced on the back end, equates to problems all over the place with this upcoming schedule.

Many teams they will face have had superb drafts. New Englands was out of the park Grand Slam. Philly, New York, Atlanta, Buffalo, to name a few.

4:21pm, April 27, 2009

trapper

Sorry if that came across wrong.In this article Raheem stated he has been affiliated with the Bucs for 14 years.
So are you saying you or anybody else on this comment board know's more than Raheem.Is there anybody on here that has even been an equipment guy for a pro team.I hope that's not what your saying because there's alot of people on here that think they actually know more then Raheem,Dominick
Bates,Jag or the Glazers who hired Dungy,Gruden and Raheem.

4:24pm, April 27, 2009

bucfan47

Pewterdude - I've been telling trapper for weeks to stick to one liners and just agree that everything the organization does is correct. He's been doing better though...

4:25pm, April 27, 2009

trapper

F*ck off BUC FAN47 ......You dont know shit,just cause you write all day you think your a pro scout.Just because i dont write huge parragraphs all the time.You think you gotta write everything you know on here to prove what you know.Come on down to Florida ,i'd love to meet you......f*ckin ASS.

4:44pm, April 27, 2009

Pewterdude

Horse,

The point is to HAVE an opinion. No one here thinks they are smarter than Dominik. Most simply have opinions like myself, that either agree with Dominik or disagree with the Glazers.

Most fans are upset at the Glazers and they have a documented history of knee jerk decisions that have been ill timed and classless and they are now coming across like cheap jerks. A forum like this is merely to express opinions and some will agree and others will disagree. If those who disagree end up being right it doesn't mean they think they know more about Dominik or Morris. It's just an OPINION and people with diverse OPINIONS are what makes a fan forum interesting unless one is a bigot.

4:53pm, April 27, 2009

trapper

What good does it do to try in prove to someone who thinks he already knows everything.Like i said before you talk your negative shit everyday about the Bucs....you never stop.everybody knows how you feel but you just keep writing shit everyday..................we get it shut the fuck up with your paragaphs of negitive shit....you've made your point everyday since Gruden got fired.Your a disgrace to this site........i'd love to bitch slap you.bf47.

4:54pm, April 27, 2009

bucfan47

haha..i know..i couldn't resist man.

5:06pm, April 27, 2009

Pewterdude

I believe that the Freeman pick was a great one (assuming they get him some WR's cause ours suck now outside of Bryant-not TE's but wideouts) because the QB position is harder to get right than almost any other and Bucfan47 has serious doubts about the pick in terms of the priority of needs to be addressed on the team but he states his case well and intelligently so I just agree to disagree with him because I know that neither of us can actually predict the outcome, and from reading many of his posts it's very obvious he knows what he's talking about concerning not just the Bucs but the whole NFL.

Expect a stiff left hand to your jaw (figuratively speaking of course) every time you don't come correct because you tend to hate on people who don't just agree and have the optimism about EVERYTHING that you do and then you can expect some good natured ribbing like Bucfan47 followed up with all in a joking and lighthearted manner just to keep things easy.

We (many of us) have strong opinions which is good for a forum like this and it's more interesting when it's not just a "pro Bucs about everything" pep rally....diversity makes for stimulating, provacative, and sometimes passionate opinion backed up by factual reasoning.

Put some ice on that cut of yours to stop the swelling and expect more of the same (lol) no hard feelings man-serious

5:22pm, April 27, 2009

lprock22

Damn it BucFan how dare you have a dissenting opinion and express it as such on this message board!?! How dare you sir!?! You are walking a dangerous road....fall in line...fall in line I say!

5:30pm, April 27, 2009

lprock22

Otherwise Trapper is going to bitch slap you...do you really want that?

5:30pm, April 27, 2009

trapper

ok,sometimes i miss that someone is joking.i dont mind anybody making there opinion but there's only one person on here that goes so out of there way to write paragraph after paragraph of negative comments everyday.
I stated all my points last year on this site,i dont see a need to keep repeating myself to people who diagree.i wrote paragraphs on pretty much every thing about this team and between that and other peoples comments and theactual articles there's not much more to say without being redundant.
There's no need for a REAL SO-CALLED BUC FAN to cut there team down everyday on a BUC FAN SITE.

5:35pm, April 27, 2009

Pewterdude

...and that goes for the rest of you profane and truly classless bigots on this board who think that your profane threats can pass for intelligence....YOU who are profane and make violent threats to posters who disagree with you are the TRUE DISGRACE to this forum as well as serving as the clowns that make so many laugh at your rants. Freakin' grow up and take a few deep breathes... lol....

5:38pm, April 27, 2009

Pewterdude

Trapper,
Do you really think he was cutting the BUCS down when the Bucs were making GOOD decisions? He is cutting the decisions that he considers are bad for a team that he obviously cares about. Can't you just FEEL the LOVE lol

Serious, if someone goes through the trouble to express their concerns about decisions that they feel are ruining a team they love, can't you see that they are just as much as a true fan as you are? Hell, maybe these forums are the only place where frustrated fans can vent and release their frustrations about a sport and a team that means a lot to them. Have you been on the Philly blogs about the Eagles or the 2 New York team's forums? This forum in tame in comparison to the legion of bitter fans that express their disapproval of what a team is doing and the perceived direction the team is heading in. It's all about perception cause none of us know but our perceptions either bring bliss or concern and the fans express themselves accordingly

5:48pm, April 27, 2009

Colorado Buc

Jeesh! Enough already!

5:48pm, April 27, 2009

Pewterdude

lprock22 gets it...lol good one....

5:54pm, April 27, 2009

lprock22

So BucFan47 has a negative style about him and tends to focus on what is wrong as opposed to what's right with the team....BIG DEAL, he's just as entitled to his opinion as you are and he's just as entitled to think he's right and you're wrong as much as you do. I will say to you what I've said to others that have had a problem with his posts....if they are so long, so negative and so against everything you stand for as a Bucs fan DO NOT READ THEM.....if a post says BucFan47 in red writing in the left hand column, then simply scroll past it as opposed to obviously making it a point to read them and get all worked up enough to threaten violence on a message board. Wow. The people who keep going back and forth with BucsFan47 seem to have some sick enjoyment of the drama that goes on in these boards because they bash him and then keep reading and coming back for more...I find that interesting.

I've been extremely negative all weekend because I HATE the Josh Freeman pick HATE IT. But the reason I'm negative about it is because I want the best for my team and I don't feel he is it. I'm going to continue to hate it and bash it until he proves me wrong. Is everyone going to bash me for that to because I like BucFan47 don't drink the Kool-Aid? Am I a so called 'fairweather fan' or a 'so-called fan', do you want to bitch slap me too? No I care about my team just as much as any of you and I think BucFan47 cares about his team to, he shows it differently GROW UP AND DEAL WITH IT.

5:55pm, April 27, 2009

bucdiesel

Bucfan47 don't like Raheem because he's white & Gruden is black!!! Bwaaahahahahahaha!!!!!! Please, he will never like Raheem or Dominik because he is a Gruden fan first and foremost! No matter they made horrible drafts(how many are on the team now?) & free agent pick ups. He will not give the new regime a chance no matter how good this team becomes. At the end of the season if we have 10-6 season and make it atleast to the 2nd round of the playoffs we'll be hearing " Gee willikers guys I know I bashed them before but I was rooting for them all the way!" I personally will deem this draft a success if our 3rd and 4th rounders make the team because Grudens didn't. It took him 6 easons to have a successful draft! I give it a C now but if our 1st three picks are still here with Freeman starting atleast in his 3rd year I will give it an A+++! Mkurbo &tiggerchuck, all I got to say to you two & others crying like you is........DON'T LET THE DOOR HIT YOU WHERE THE GOOD LORD SPLIT YOU!!!!!!

6:00pm, April 27, 2009

bucfan47

And none of you can realistically believe that most Bucs fans should be excited about this pick.

Championship teams in year one of their rebuilding just don't take QB's first. If Peyton Manning is on the board and you have a chance to grab him, FINE, because his production warranted consideration out of college.

But don't sit here and try to sugarcoat a guy coming out of a SPREAD offense and talk us into the potential this guy has in the right system.

It's just not what Championship teams do. If I truly believed this guy was the next coming of Dan Marino, I'd be all for selecting him. But if you noticed, 16 teams passed on him in the draft and there's no reason to think if he slid past Tampa that he would have been drafted in round 1. For most experts, after Tampa he was projected in round 2.

So again, I'm all for him doing well, and I hope he does...They wanted him and it's obvious from Morris' statements that he would have considered him even if the team had the #1 overall pick. I would never have considered him at that spot but that shows the difference between Morris and others..It's Dominik and Morris' baby, they have the keys to the pirate ship for now, and fans have no choice if they want to cheer, they're at the mercy of their decisions.

I'm just very skeptical of this kid. It's so easy to be confident and say all the right things with the pads off. Just not sure.

6:00pm, April 27, 2009

bucdiesel

Trapper I believe they were talking to Dominik. He's been with the team for 14 years.

6:13pm, April 27, 2009

bucfan47

bucdiesel - And Bucdiesel, I was a Dungy fan first and foremost. Let's be clear.

I'm looking for leadership and direction from these new coaches. I don't care that Raheem is best friends with some of the players, I don't care that he jumps up and down with them on the sideline. He's paid to coach and Dominik is paid to manage.

I'm concerned with these two new guys for a variety of reasons and decisions, even thus far. I'm totally upset at the fact Dominik was handed a GREAT cap situation and has already handed out a deal that was not earned when he signed Winslow.

You don't keep the cap in good standings by doing things like that. That bothers me. What will he do in the future? Over the course of the next 5 years, what will our cap look like? I'm not convinced these guys have the experience to be successful in this league. It all smells great right now, everyone is excited, especially if you supported the chance of coaches.

But time will tell about these guys, and sorry if it upsets some of you that I'm not totally bought into the new guys.

And for some of you to not give credit to Allen and Gruden for what they've done in Tampa is not intelligent.

If not for Allen, none of these signings would have taken place this season. No money would have been available to sign Ward or Winslow, among others. He had a plan and his experience in negogiations of contracts and salary cap management was nothing short of excellent.

No team hits on drafts picks, and you're about to find out that neither does new coaches. They all miss. Some teams like New England do it better.

But to say Gruden and Allen have not turned this team around given the fact the horrific cap situation they dealt with shortly after the SuperBowl is just unintelligent if you haven't been keeping up.

They have personally been responsible for the very players that everyone is putting hopes in seeing this team turn around...

Guys like Faine, Joseph, Sears, Trueblood, Bryant, McCown, Ruud, Black, Hayes (those last two everyone is high on), Sabby, Tanard Jackson, Aqib Talib...I mean, are you kidding me?

The posted 3 winning seasons out of the last 4. Just stop and think for two minutes what it takes to win three of the last four seasons in the NFL....

I'm afraid this team will struggle for years...I'm hoping for the best but I'm not seeing the leadership from the new regime and you know, maybe I will be proved wrong in time. On this topic I truly hope I am.

6:16pm, April 27, 2009

lprock22

That's what I'm saying BucFan47....the smartest thing to do would have been to shore up the defense this year, that way we have all the ingredients to support the development of a young QB....a strong OL, a strong running game and a defense...then you plug in the QB so he isn't asked to do too much and he can grow at his pace.

We reached because EVERYONE wants a QB so bad but we took one that other than the need for a QB would have been a 2nd round choice. Sure he has all the physical tools but your physical tools, especially at the QB position, are only as good as your mental tools allow you to maximize them. If he can't read a defense and find his check downs and throw to the right reciever at the right time, I don;t care if his arm is as strong as it is or how many would be tacklers he can shake off....he'll be throwing strong passes right to the arms of oppsing DBs.

The smart thing would have been to stick with Luke let him take the knocks of being the starting QB on a bad...er....rebuilding team and see what he's got. Then you build the team up around him and draft your young QB when you have the pieces in order and when you actually have a franchise worthy passer available to you instead of just taking a QB because he's there.

Its like picking the Ferrari without the engine just because its a Ferrari.

6:18pm, April 27, 2009

Pewterdude

Seriously, does anyone know what the Buc's war room consisted of? Have they assembled a staff? I know they have scouts and Doug Williams but the attorney and the rest of the front office that was removed....were they replaced? Is this team being run like a mom and pop store (figureatively)? I haven't read anything about their front office hirings...????

6:22pm, April 27, 2009

bucfan47

lprock22 - Could not have worded that any better brother!

6:41pm, April 27, 2009

Pewterdude

I'm on record as saying that Freeman is a very good pick due to the following reasons:
1. Rare size and athleticism (6-6/250 lbs)

2. A great fit in Tampa coaching wise (QB coach Rich Olson is one of the best QB coaches in the NFL having coached the Rams with Curt Warner and the Redskins who are both vertical offensive teams. OL Pete Mangurian is an outstanding coach and former New England TE coach that is well versed in the zone blocking scheme. Freeman has and excellent relationship with head coach Morris and has a great attitude about wanting to play for Tampa unlike several free agents and QB Jake Plummer.

Good QB coaching can teach Freeman through hours of film study about picking up coverages and speeding up his progression of reads based on film study that shows the proper sequence of reads and checkdowns. Having one of the best QB coaches will help him process information at a lot faster pace than a poorly coached QB

3. Arm strength fits Bucs verticle offensive passing style and several experts have said that Freeman can make every throw expected from a pro QB. Throwing is not an issue and this system will accentuate his arm strength

4. Bucs youthful and very athletic and talented OL will give Freeman a better pocket than he's ever passed from. Big arm....time to make reads and checkdowns= completed passes in bunches. Freeman will be playing behind a very good OL

5. Outstanding group of TE's that are very good playmakers and are pass catching TE's. Winslow2, Jeremy Stevens (6-7) and Alex Smith will give Freeman outstanding checkdown options and possibly the best playmaking group of TE's in the NFL

6. Mobility. Freeman's mobility will create more improvisational plays based on his elusiveness and ability to break tackles. Freeman was only sacked 13 times in his last season at K-State because he's so hard to tackle and is elusive much like Ben Roethlisberger. Similar skill set but Big Ben was more pro ready than Freeman although statistically Ben had a subpar Super Bowl against Seattle. Hines Ward and Willie Parker bailed Big Ben out in that Super Bowl (supporting cast)

7. Outstanding running game and RB's that fit zone blocking scheme by having very good cut back and ability to run counters. The Bucs are very deep at RB and have the luxury of not rushing Caddy back with Graham and Ward who should be the starter at RB. The running game will make Freeman's transition much easier as he should face many more 3rd and short situations which favors the OC and the offense.

8. Outstanding depth at PK. Field position with more KO's going into the end zone for touch backs should favor the Bucs with newly acquired PK

9. The toughest position to get correct is the QB position and statistics show that the QB's that have the most success in the NFL are drafted in the first round. Freeman has every tool needed to succeed in the NFL and is coming into a great supporting cast offensively.

10. Freeman is a franchise type QB who simply needs more playmaking WR depth and a speedy and talented #2 WR and across the board speed with the exception of Clayton whose blocking and toughness is comparable to Hines Ward. Clayton is a perfect change of pace WR IMO at the #3 spot as a possession receiver.

All the Bucs are missing is a playmaking legitimate WR with speed at the #2 spot to stretch defenses and with the above stated attributes, Josh Freeman would be stepping into a much more complete offense that he did not play in at Kansas State with a radically improved set of position coaches leaving only practice reps and tons of film study to identify with the NFL and it's deceptive tactics that Freeman can learn by being a student of the game. Freeman will surprise if the team completes the final piece to an offense that is very deep at several positions.

8:44pm, April 27, 2009

bucfan47

Pewterdude - Now let's hear your writeup on the defense. Cause at the moment I've got the offense needing to score 30 points per game to finish 8-8.

8:51pm, April 27, 2009

Pewterdude

Bucfan47,

The point I was trying to make is the offense has much fewer holes to fill but the QB position is the most important on the team and one of this team's biggest weaknesses prior to drafting a franchise QB with our #1 draft pick (bugs the hell outta you reading " f-r-a-n-c-h-i-s-e QB ") which we now have doesn't it ?. It's disturbing to you, huh? lol jk....

The defense has too many question marks at LB, CB (Barber sucks), Sabby not ready at safety but still needs playing time, the Flip experiment at Will LB when he was an absolute pure ASSHOLE at SS, the left DE and the depth at DT with all our fatboyz who'll need a blow (rotation to stay fresh and not winded with all that weight).

Which begs the question from many : "Well why the HELL do we take a QB with our #1?!!"

Because it's easier to fill every defensive position than to find the right fit with a legit QB who is a "franchise" (ouch!) QB. You have to start with the QB as your foundation to give the team a sense of direction and I and many writers and Mike Mayock and others believe that a team starts with the QB and builds their identity around the QB and starts putting the missing pieces in place to enhance their "franchise QB" which we now have.

The team now has to add the WR's on offense and scour the waiver wire for last minute cuts that the draft affected for the above mentioned positions but the thing that the defense does have going for it (assuming the Glazers will spend money on some FA's who are still remaining and some should be veterans to mix in with the youth) are these factors:

1. An established identity for a VIOLENT (love that word as it relates to football....) mindset for mostly young, hard working viscious football players who enjoy VIOLENTcollisions with anyone carrying the rock or in their way to beating DOWN whomever has the rock and defenders who want to BRING THE PAIN!!!! (like Buc teams during the mid 90's to the present (injuries aside).

A defense who lines up and has a "I'll bloody your f*cking NOSE , you punk ass BITCH!!!!!" mentality. I think Morris is gonna bring the pain and he's starting off with this philosophy and it's the identity that he will create the defense with. Old school " 11 angry men!!!"

Offense HAS the identity; Run your ass over and punish you up and down the field moving the chains and then throw the HELL out of the football with our STUD QB who has a freaking CANNON for an arm!!!

2. It's not hard to find extremely VIOLENT bastards who really want to put people on stretchers and do it for money. Angry, pissed off at the WORLD assholes who are filled with RAGE and can't WAIT to nearly decapitate anyone with the ball.

3. A DC who has years of NFL experience and shares the desire to dominate every offense the team faces with big, ANGRY and brutal men and who has a desire to plug up the middle with large men who can tie up two blockers who try to stop this deranged psychotic monster DL while the linebackers shoot the gaps and literally try to knock the sense outta anyone carrying the ball.

4. A head coach who many have described as "charismatic" who has a ton of veteran position coaches around him and is excitable and levels with his army of bullies and ass kicking bastards. A coach who many on the defense would kill for literally because he inspires that type of loyalty from his players because his players KNOW that he has their backs and he's an evil bastard at heart like they are when it comes to kicking ass on the field. A coach who deep down inside enjoys seeing offensive players in PAIN just like his sadistic cast of warriors who PUNISH by pure BRUTALITY.

Concerns: cover CB's are much harder to adapt to press coverage than most corners who play zone in college.

We have size up the gut of the DL but how well is their techniques (pad levels, burst off of the ball, disengaging blockers/shedding, stamina, leverage etc). This can be taught but one has to wonder how disciplined will such an active and violent defense be?

Sabby's deep cover support and his pass coverage angles on the deep ball when the WR's beat our corners? He's out of position and a step too late a lot for a starting safety regarding his pass support coverage.

The pass rush. These CB's (except for Talib) will need some pressure up front or they will get drilled by veteran QB's (many who are on our schedule this upcoming season. I thought during the first 3 quarters of the season the DL got a lot of pressures, and hurries on the QB that didn't show up in the sack totals. That should only improve barring injuries.

Pass coverage of our new LB's who are athletic but lack experience and can be punked by several of the QB's the team will face this upcoming season.

It's gonna be a learning experience and maybe some dues to be paid but if the team is more aggressive in future FA and not so unorganized and unprepared due to ill timed releases of key front office personell and coaches and first class players who are community assets released 2 days before FA, then these insensitive Glazers just may find a way not to screw this team up....I wouldn't count on it though cause their history suggests a callous disregard for some of the most decent men to ever play in the NFL starting with the bungling of the Dungy firing (leaks about Parcel while Dungy is preparing for the Eagles in the playoffs distracted the team and they get killed and Parcels punks their dumb asses by stiffing the Bucs at the last moment) To have Dungy and now Brooks go through that sort of disrespect is just unacceptable and shows a pattern of classless moves by these increasingly inept idiots for owners.

THE GLAZERS SUCK BIG TIME AND HAVE NO CLASS.

2:39am, April 28, 2009

Pewterdude

lprock22,

The "shoring up of the defense " was NOT going to happen with what many experts plainly said was " one of the weakest drafts in a very long time"

The shoring up of the defense flew out of the window when THE TEAM FAILED IN FREE AGENCY. They let DT Rocky Bernard, DE Chris Canty and LB Michael Boley sign with the Giants for less than fat ass Haynesworth signed for when all three of these defenders could have been signed for less than Fatboy put together. This team's defense was NOT going to be replenished with talent in this year's draft even with a second round pick because the draft was so freaking weak.

So it made sense to sign your franchise QB and build around that position and try to not screw up FA whenever the opportunity presents itself. The Bucs didn't do shiot about CB in the draft when they could have signed Greer from Buffalo but lose him to the last place team in your division (the Saints?) Now that they have the most important position locked up they can get the best CB in either FA or the draft next season as they are easier to acquire than a franchise QB with the raw skills and good fit that Freeman has. Just my $.02...

2:58am, April 28, 2009

Pewterdude

...Now the team needs stop gap players til next years FA when they will have a ton of cash AGAIN and next year's draft which should be better hopefully at defense.

There are a few veteran stop gap players to make up for the failings of the Bucs in this year's FA and if the team signs them and doesn't get too hung up on age and just try to fill positions of need til they grow a freaking brain about free agency then they can make up some ground.

3:08am, April 28, 2009

bucfan47

Pewterdude - Yes, it kills me. I hate the word "Franchise QB".

PR - Just call the kid up and tell him to shut up and be the QB. Can we all agree to start there?

Let's be a QB for 5-6 years and if all goes well, then we can start to talk about being a consistent leader, and then we can move to the franchise topic.

I've hated that word for years. Wanna know why? How many franchise QB's are in the league right now? Just think about it? How many QB's in this league would you feel confident can lead any team for say, the next 10 years?

You might come up with a dozen QB's, or half the league. Maybe...

So I hate the word, you don't hear franchise QB out of New York (Jets), you don't hear franchise out of Detriot (they've been burned too many times), and you shouldn't hear even a peep from the word out of Tampa.

I hate it.

8:07am, April 28, 2009

bucfan47

Ok. Here's what I hated about the draft. Everyone knows where I stand on the QB front. I hate it from every angle imaginable. But I'm consistent because I absoluted hated Detroit's selection of Matthew Stafford. But...here's how I think....

1. The selection of Freeman does NOTHING for our team this season..I think we can all agree. NOTHING.

2. When you are rebuilding a defense you start with upfront pressure. EVERYONE knows this.. The Freeman selection allowed DT Peria Jerry to slip to our division rival who turned in their card 10 seconds into being on the clock. They were estatic down there in Atlanta and they should be..Pairing Peria Jerry up with John Abraham is very scary for any team. Plus IMO Jerry was the most mature, ready to step-in and contribute player that we could have selected...But didn't...

All I can tell you is IF you think the draft on defense was weak, just wait until DT Peria Jerry plays the game and you watch him with YOUR eyes.

3. SALARY CAP - Instead of attacking the draft on defense (like Atlanta) and choosing to sign a player that will not contribute at all this year, the team virtually has no shot to avoid being outside the top 10, possibly top 5 of the NFL draft next year.

What's that mean? It means they will be forced into selecting ONE PLAYER next season, just like Detroit, just like Kansas City, and many others that will result in the team paying them an enormous contract which no team wants to do because of Cap implications. It's another reason why I'm still pissed about the team signing TE Kellen Winslow to an extended deal when at this point in time, IT'S UNEARNED. DUMB!

But they did, and next season will see the team sign one player to an outrageous deal that take an sizeable chunk out of our cap room that Bruce Allen worked very hard to get our team out from under.

On top of having a top 10 or top 5 draft pick next year, there are some big-time players on the horizon that must be re-signed to contract extensions. A few of which will want very large deals.

The choice to take Freeman (if you look slightly down the road) has HUGE implications on whether these coaches will succeed if he doens't pan out...It's a risk that to be honest I'm shocked they chose to make.

There are plenty of teams that have been successful in this league by choosing to draft from the trenches out...To me, when I look at the Tampa Bay Buccaneers roster, DT Peria Jerry made the most sense of anyone because of what he would have instantly brought to the table on this defense.

Remember, good DT's make EVERYONE better. What better way to help your secondary out, what better way to help Barber out (specifically), what better way to help your D-Line get more sacks, which inturn, will help the offense and Luke McCown out by not having to score as many TD's.

I know we drafted a DT in the 3rd, but I'm not convinced he's in the same class as Peria Jerry.

8:47am, April 28, 2009

bucfan47

And one last point. Even if he pans out, there's nothing that tells me this team will still win ball games...Look at Denver from last year. If Freeman ever has the type of season Jay Cutler had last year I think we would all be estatic and jumping for joy, but it goes to show if your TEAM is not complete on both sides of the ball, you still DON'T MAKE THE PLAYOFFS in this league.

I personally don't see Freeman being that type of player early on, and maybe not throughout his entire career, although I do think he can be a good player in this league.

It appears he's very smart and so far has said all the right things, but for our team I absolutely despise the selection at 17.

8:52am, April 28, 2009

Pewterdude

Bucfan47,

Just as there is not a guarantee that Freeman is a lock even with all the factors that I listed that would aid him in succeeding for the Bucs because he's such a good fit, we have no sure proof that DT Peria Jerry would have the sudden impact that you believe he would have had in Tampa.

I wonder if the fans of Booger McFarland who was deemed "a Warren Sapp clone" have that same optimism today?

I wonder if KC Chief fans think so highly of another LSU DT Glen Dorsey as they did when drafting him very high last year with NO immediate impact?

I wonder what Saints fans think of DT Jonathan Sullivan (Georgia) after burning their #1 pick (6th overall) in the 2003
draft?

Are the Arizona Cardinals fans thrilled about taking DT Wendell Bryant from Wisconsin in round 1/12th pick after they could have moved down in that same draft to take Albert Haynesworth or the Raven's safety Ed Reed? Bryant finished his career with only 29 tackles and 1.5 sacks....

Oh...and "Big Daddy Dan Wilkerson" was deemed to be the greatest DT to ever be drafted coming out of THE Ohio State University in '94 as the first pick in the draft by Cinncinnati....Where....is...he...now....? I'm sure he's dominating somewhere in the league and close to being the MOST dominant, like everrrrrr.....

And the Colts fans must be thrilled about big, bad DT ?
Steve Emptman, that unstoppable dude from the U of Washington who was a "can't miss" DT

And DT Russell Maryland of the "U" back in '92....Surely he lived up to the hype and would dominate and be a force to be reckoned with for YEARS!!!! uh.....not.....

I can recall the St. Luis Rams burning first round draft picks not once but in two different drafts to become downright stout in the middle by taking DT Damione Lewis from .....THE "U" with the 12th pick in the 2000 draft only to have to again draft another DT just three years later by selecting Jimmy Kennedy from Penn State in 2003 with the their 12th pick once again in that draft just three years after taking Lewis at the same position in the first round...

I could go on and on and on but the point is that DT Peria Jerry was taken way further down in this year's draft and didn't have the acclaim or massive size as these other previously mentioned "can't miss" DT's of yesteryear and it's not a lock that he could suffer the same fate as just a few that were named and not live up to the hype...

So it seems that DT is a risky proposition as well.....
...My money's on Freeman because of the above stated reasons and fit being the most convincing as well as supporting cast....

to be continued.....

3:47pm, April 28, 2009

Pewterdude

Bucfan47,

Two questions: Did I mention that when the Rams drafted DT's in their 2000 and 2003 drafts with the same draft position at 12th that NEITHER of them had any significant impact? How far did THAT set their franchise back?

...and secondly just wondering if you totally avoided the PR article that used the "F" word: "Freeman Ready to be Buc's Franchise (ouch!!!!!) QB? That's gonna leave a scar..... ;) lol

Just messin' with ya' man...

peace

4:05pm, April 28, 2009

bucfan47

I realize the any player can be a bust Pewterman, I do.

My point is the Bucs come away with 3 defensive players in this draft, and if you ask me, they needed to get more.

DT Peria Jerry was taken mid-twenties by Atlanta, and I have watched him and Wallace throughout all of last year. Jerry maybe a bust, just like Freeman or anyone else, but my main point was that IMO the draft should have been handled differently. We could have came away with WR Mike Wallace in the 3rd, and how would all of us feel with McCown throwing to Winslow, Bryant, Clayton, and Wallace, with our backfield heading into next season...With oh by the way, 5 or 6 defensive draft picks competiting for roster spots. I would have felt much more positive that our team could have put together a 5 or 6 wins this season, or maybe had the kind of year that Atlanta or possibly Miami had last year. That's a stretch even with the draft unfolding like I would have liked to see, but you get my point.

Anyway, I'm done talking about it. It's not going to change anything and the roster is what it is.

4:51pm, April 28, 2009

bucfan47

And I know your just kidding. Enjoyed the discussion.

4:51pm, April 28, 2009

drt1066

Pewterdude
Would you mind if I give you the nickname, "The Professor?"

Bucfan47
There is no way to judge a draft right away. Was the Patriots draft a bust because they picked a QB in the 6th round (Tom Brady)?
John Elway, Terry Bradshaw and Peyton Manning ALL stunk up the field the first few years until they finally figured it out. I sat in the Old Sombrero and watched Steve Young throw SIX picks in one game against the 49ers! They were impressed enough to buy his contract; sit him down to learn from Joe Montana; and then have a Hall of Fame career. People will need to watch Josh Freeman play and LEARN before we will be able to really judge.

6:10pm, April 28, 2009

bucdiesel

Bucfan47 what makes you think that the Bucs cant have a turn around like Atlanta did last year before a snap has been played or training camp has opened??? No one ever expected Matt Ryan to come in and play the way he did. How many #1 draft picks make such a huge impact as he did? You love pointing to factors that you think prove your point .What about Atlanta last year, doesnt that prove that the unexpected can happen?

Got some questions for you . Have you ever been a coach or general manager of any football team at any level? How about a talent evaluator or scout . Any part of any football program? If you haven't then what makes you think you know any more than the head coach who saw Freeman practice and play more than anyone in the media or fan base especially you? Why because you watch so much college football?

I know this is sounding like a personal attack & not trying to but you are so irritating & your posts become so borish because you are like a broken record.... you put out the same thing over and over and over & long winded as hell. I'd hate to get in an argument with you because I'd just let you win just to shut you the hell up. You give our new coach & GM no respect for anything they have done because you are a Jon Gruden fan & because of that your opinion doesn't hold as much weight since everybody knows you aren't very objective. If you were you would understand Gruden had plenty of time to turn things around but didn't . He & Allen are the ones who put the mediocre players on this team. He won a Super Bowl then next to nothing else since. He bombed his 1st draft and several others after. How many drafts do you geve him a chance at? If all you can find to say is negativite about "your" team then your opinion will never have as much respect or weight as it seems as you are so striving for. Most people like balance just like a football team needs.
!

6:32pm, April 28, 2009

bucfan47

bucdiesel - I think you just answered your own question about Matt Ryan and the Atlanta Falcons. The success they had last year was due in large part to the play of Ryan.

There are always exceptions to the rule bucdiesel, but that doesn't make it a RULE! That's why they are called RULES! Make sense?

Sure Tampa can have a surprising year but in know way, shape, or form did selecting Josh Freeman help them this season.

And the example you provided for New England. They already had Drew Bledsoe on the team. He was pretty darn good. Look, there are all kinds of cases of QB's being taken here and there, some have went on to good careers and some not.

Steve Young is the best example we could ever give and he started out right in our back yard. If your team is not where it needs to be in terms of protection, if it's not where it needs to be in terms of defense and special teams, it doesn't matter how good the QB is the TEAM is still not going to win Championships.

The year Peyton won his Championship, the defense came out of nowhere to play Championship caliber for four games. If that defense had layed down like they did earlier in the year against Jacksonville that same season, where it allowed the Jags to roll over them for over 200+ yards rushing, Peyton as great as he is, he's probably still looking for that 1st SuperBowl.

The point of building Championship ball clubs is you get your team in position on both sides of the ball. Tampa proved in 2002 it doesn't take superb QB play to win a SuperBowl if your TEAM is where it needs to be. Baltimore proved it in 2000. The Pittsburgh Steelers proved it with Big Ben his first season by not having to ask too much of him in terms of passing the football.

Can we agree there?

Can we also agree that right now Luke McCown and Josh Freeman are not capable of producing Tom Brady or Peyton Manning type passing numbers this season?

Can we agree on that?

If Tampa had taken the proper steps to address the defense IMO it would have made quicker strides in getting back to winning football. Instead, they take a major risk/reward on a guy who thinks he can play, but WE the FANS are going to have to wait until 2010 before we FIND OUT.

And that's before we find out if he can even do it.

Great video on www.foxsports.com/video/nfl and then click on the NFC South breakdown of the draft by Adam Schein.

None of you will like it because it's only one opinion and it doesn't matter because it's our team, but I'm telling you right now, many experts feel the same way interms of the selection.

Most people aren't going to argue Freeman, as they all see him having the possibility of being a good PRO. It's the selection.

I can't argue with the Denver Broncos draft. After all, they took Knoshown Moreno with their first pick. It's the selection. Why in the hell did Denver select a RB when they signed 3 in the off-season and the defense was almost dead last in every category trackable? You ask me? I got nothing.

I have no idea how you don't take two defensive players in the 1st round. No idea. But I guarantee you there are some (not many) but SOME Broncos fans that absolutely loved the Denver draft. It's not a problem with Freeman, it's not that I have a problem with Moreno, it's why in the HELL where they drafted NOW?

7:13pm, April 28, 2009

bucfan47

And no, not ever coached, just played. Does that mean your not capable of producing a better draft than the Oakland Raiders bucdiesel?

Is it a prerequisite to have coaching or NFL experience to have a better draft than the Oakland Raiders have had the last five years? What about their decisions to over-pay players and give them millions guaranteed, only to cut one player (D. Hall) mid-seasons just months after you sat down with him to sign the deal?

I think as fans we forget that these guys are human and sometimes their vision is clouded and they make mistakes because they're so involved. I'm not saying I have more football knowledge than Raheem Morris, because as a coach I most certainly don't.

But I do know alot about business, and football is a business. Most coaches cannot evaluate every player and thus, must rely on other people for advice. That's exactly why some teams draft better than others.

And yes, I was a Gruden supporter because I saw the direction that most all of you failed to see. You didn't see where the team had come from in terms of the salary cap, all those years they couldn't afford to sign anybody because they didn't have the money.

The fact that we were very interested in Drew Brees but didn't have the money to bring him here.

These new guys do deserve alot of credit for taking over as coaches/GM's, all the while they were basically behind on everything they set out to do. I mean, even at the Senior Bowl while attempting to scout players, Dominik and Morris had to also attempt to assemble a staff. Imagine the task?

I do give them credit for a few things, and I also have criticized Allen and Gruden for not hitting on all their draft picks. But you know, truth is no team does, and if you aren't in a position to be players in free agency, have the full ability to re-sign your own players, in this new age of free agency it's going to be very difficult to be successful in this league regardless.

7:26pm, April 28, 2009

bucfan47

But I can also tell you that if Raheem and Dominik walked into a bad salary cap situation, I can guarantee you that YOU, along with most other fans would be bashing them left and right for not signing anyone in the off-season.

7:30pm, April 28, 2009

wpmcclane

I must be one of the few (maybe only) Bucs fan on here who consistently agrees with what Bucfan47 has to say... For all of you who think that Rah/Dom have made great calls since Gruden got fired, that's your opinion, and it's okay. For those of us who think the Bucs are about to take a long ride up shit creek without a paddle, that's okay, too. F-ing newsflash fans: You can be a true fan and disagree with management, with coaching, with players, with owners, etc, but still love the TEAM. I'll love the Bucs as a TEAM until the day I die, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with everything these Clowns are doing. In fact, how boring and insignificant would this blog be if we all sat back and agreed with everything the Clowns have done, and salivate over a #1 pick who was an average QB in average conference? Anyway, a few random thoughts for the crowds consideration:

-Defense wins in this league. For any of you who have ever spent anytime playing the game, at any level, you would agree. And right now, our D is leaking like a sieve.

-Show me what evidence there is that Freeman excelled at the college level. Show me. He may develop into a good NFL QB one day, but quit laying the overhyped franchise tag on nothing more than an average college QB at this point.

-Why did we feel obligated to trade up 2 spots to grab Freeman (giving away a 6th round draft pick in the process). Itw as clear that Denver had no interest in Freeman. After picking Knowshon Moreno w/ their 12th pick, it was clear Denver would use their 18th pick for a defensive player, not jump ahead of the Bucs and grab Freeman. The Clownshow wasted a 6th round pick. Wasted.

-I think Gruden got shafted. There, I said it. Send me death threats, call me out, challenge me to a brawl, whatever. The man gave his all, dedicated himself to his profession, and gave this city its only Super Bowl title. Lay off the guy.

-Defense folded like a cheap deck of cards down the stretch last year, one factor in letting Grudes go (and Rah was a big part of that defensive collapse, if you try real hard and remember).

-I only hope the best for Rah/Dom. If their questionable decisions pay off, that's great. If not, don't waste any time finding replacements for them.

-Can someone please tell me why Rah only spent one year at K-State? I can't dig up anything specific on why he had such a short stint there as DC.

7:54pm, April 28, 2009

Pewterdude

wpmcclane,

I've read that it was the Bucs that sought Raheem Morris to return to coach the DB's because the Buc's defense against the pass had regressed drastically in the one year that Morris was at K-State and that Jermaine Phillip's development was in regression as well.

The Bucs probably promised Morris a promotion IMO to return but it was more the Bucs wanting Morris to return to coach the DB's than anything Morris did or didn't do the one season at K-State.

I'm a huge fan of Jon Gruden and admit that I"m still bitter about him not being here to have all the cap money that Allen helped create by radically improving the Buc's salary cap but I"m not gonna write Morris off before he even has coached a single game and although I'm not a fan of Morris, I like his desire to create an identity of a violent and hard hitting smashmouth and extremely very physical brand of football in Tampa.

I hate the Glazers for obvious reasons that I've stated many times, and love the Bucs as a team but have doubts about several things that haven't occurred during this offseason (especially not signing several available defensive free agents).

I"m trying to find positives and they are there about some of the moves that Dominic has made and just move on although I know in my heart that Gruden got the shaft that was ushered in by Monte Kiffin's not being able to do his job defensively because he had one foot out of the door heading to Tennessee. I resent Kiffin for that...

1:54am, April 29, 2009

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