Don't you love these guys that "said it before and I'll say it again..." yadayadayada. Cigarfox did a great job putting jongruden in his place so I won't belabor the point. We still have a lot of holes to fill and getting rid of good but not great players is not high on the priority list. We need a LT (Penn can move to LG) and a RT and a RDE. Another RB to pair with Caddy like most teams are doing would be nice. So, if we can figure out how to amass two first round and two high second round picks in this draft, we should be okay. Can't do it? Drats. I guess we'll have to be patient. Man, I hate that. But, Detroit has had top 5 draft picks how many years and only has one win so far this year? Maybe if the real JonGruden had drafted better... or maybe if the poster who calls himself jongruden could divulge his genius before the draft instead of months later... of course if a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his butt. Oh well. Let's get what we can and keep rooting till we get good players at all the main positions. By then, Morris might even be able to coach. HEE HEE. WIth what he has to work with, I'd say he's doing pretty spectacular. The only thing I detest about him is this "Us against the world" attitude he preaches. They read the negative posts and ignore what the fans are saying in support of them. That sucks. I hope the players don't think everyone makes the kind of money they do. If we did, there would be no blackouts. Unfortunately, a lot of people are out of work in Florida or working for depressed wages. They also better learn to tackle real well instead of just trying to hit players or as they say, "blow them up." Tackling isn't much in vogue anymore since it takes real he man talent and ability. It is far easier to launch your robotic body at a guy. Using equipment as a weapon will cause teams to lose games. Let's get smart and tackle and win by default if we have to. It's better than losing.

I am glad they made a trade. It is way to early to bash the guy. Lord knows he cannot be much worse than we have now. I think bucs have to be thinking DE with their first pick next yr. I would venture to guess: 1) Running Back or DE 2) Running back or DE 3)Defensive End or line backer 4)Safety, or Corner 5) safety or Corner 6) Running back or offensive lineman 7) offensive lineman.

I suppose with Price out we need someone to fill in. Maybe this guy will help. Sure can't get much worse. GO BUCS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Slam the Rams

Magee at 298 is a start to help shore up our run defense. He also can play at both DE and DL, and provides good versatility. Too bad before the trading deadline that we did not trade off our underachieveing middle linebacker, and promoted Black to that position, which is where he played in college, and he would instantly make us more stout up the middle. Watson is also 240 and very talented and could be getting reps at Black's right linebacker slot. We also need to move our senior defensive back to safety where his loss of speed will not be a problem with our zone defenses and he can extend his career a lot further. That way we can continue to benefit from his Senior Leadership of the Defense too. Our nickel back is faster and a play maker and taller and is ready to be promoted to a starter along side Talib now. He is also great at run support too. That would then give our third round draft choice this year the reps he needs at nickel back. With those changes we could turn around our run defense problem, and build for the future.

So i just saw that Suh already has 4.5 sacks with 2 FF and an interception this year while our McCoy has ZERO in all categories... awesome

He has 1 FF

he's also playing next to guys with much more experience than McCoy is.

also, Suh was taken before the Bucs pick.

We didn't have a chance to get Suh, so your comment is irrelevant.

When does rebuilding = improvement? (Just a little improvement) Last year we were last in the league in rushing defense giving up 4.8yds per carry. This year we are next to last and give up 5.3yds per carry. (Ranked last) The ’76 and ‘77 Bucs gave up 4.4yds and 3.5yds respectively. You hear it all of the time…the NFL is a copycat league (minus Cincinnati) get ready for the run parade. So very frustrating…Go Bucs!

You can't look back like that aaronmay and use that as correlation. Defensive teams back then had more lead way than now and the passing attempts is also now hiigher versus the run. Chill out and lets see where we are after next year. This is a three year draft requirement and we still have one more to go before we can complain.

I think he adds good depth to our young D-Line. We have to remember the Bucs are rebuilding and this is just another piece of their puzzle. Hopefully it works out for all involved. But I really hate seeing all this negative chatter against the Bucs. I remember back in 94 & 95 when we starting rebuilding through the draft fans were upset, but look how that turned out. Let give a few years before we pass to much judgement. Hell we waited 26yrs for our first superbowl.

jongrudon, you and your negativism is wrong again. The Bucs only had so many draft picks and a lot of wholes to fills. What should they have done, not drafted McCoy, Price, Williams or Benn? You will probably say something like they shouldn't have drafted Benn seeing that as of right now he is the least productive and even though it is hind site you call as as if you knew it the whole time. If Williams did not work out then you would have complained that we didn't draft Benn and say that the Bucs were dumb for not getting him. If we drafted a DE then we would have dropped the ball some place else. Do the math. I guess you thought the Bucs could rebuild in one year and be fantastic with no problems or holes. I don't disagree that we need to upgrade the DE position but, no way would I have given up Price, McCoy, Williams or Benn to do so back in April. If I had a time machine, perhaps I would have taken a DE over Benn, but that is only in hinds site. At the time receiver and DT was a biggest issues. This was not a bad move by the Bucs at all. Think about it, the Bucs DE's have done nothing this year. We have nothing to loose by taking a chance on a young DE who only has a year under his belt. I am sure the draft picks were later round picks. Dominik has been the master at dealing draft picks. Even if we loos on this deal, I am sure we will not loose much and Doiminik is still way ahead. Anyone who thinks that taking a chance on a young guy to replace some one else who has not produced is being foolish. Last I checked, White, and Crowder are still here. So, guess what, the DE positions has not gotten any worse now has it. jongrudon, stop your complaining.

We need to draft Adrian Clayborn next year in the first round. Then drop Stylez White and Kyle Moore. Start Clayborn and Crowder and have Magee and Bennet back up's. Potentially another draft pick as a back up as well.

Serously... why don't we trade for Logan Mankins? He is going to be as good as anything out there in the offseason. I understand rebuilding, but like I've said... rebuilding only works when you supplement it with free agent additions. Our Oline is horrible. I don't think Davin is even playing very well. If we sign Mankins, who is a tough SOB, then we have leverage with Davin during the offseason, with his contract being up after the season. For now, we can plug Mankins in at LG... it would definitely bring some toughness to the interior of our line and may make Davin step his play up a little. I just don't like what I see for the future. Davin and Trueblood's contracts are up at the end of the year and we will have to pay them pretty well to keep them. I would rather pay a Mankins and another FA Tackle than these 2. And no, Mankins is not old, he's like 1 year older than Davin, so we're not adding an old vet and getting away from building a solid core. Without some key veteran additions we are going to have years of losing. Great first and second round picks aren't going to help fill all the holes we have. Let's see, we need 2 or 3 Olinemen, 2 DEs, 1 or 2 LBs, 1 safety, and a RB. 2 free agents would really help fill some of these spots.

trade deadline has passed.

This just in the Bucs sign someone else's garbage. You know it's bad when Bucs fans are looking at the bright side to this signing when this guy is let go one yr after being drafted in the third round. I said it before I'll say it again we dropped the ball in the draft by not drafting a DE.

A bit harsh. The Chiefs already have 1st round picks invested in starting DE's Tyson Jackson and Glenn Dorsey. Magee was probably the only backup they had that had any trade value, so that's why they decided to let him go. It doesn't mean he is garbage. That remains to be seen. Give the guy the benefit of the doubt for now.

jongruden, that would have been a huge reach to take a DE at No. 3. I think most of us knew that Suh was pro ready and was why he was selected before us and that McCoy was going to need at least a year to be pro ready. Chill out; it's way to early in the rebuild cycle to make "I told you so" statements.

would you say that the bucs signed someone else's garbage when we picked up Donald Penn / Legarrette Blount?

Well they did more than I expected by making a trade anyway. Sounds right as a replacement for Sims next year and depth, but at DT, as is not really a DE. I would be surprised if the acquisition has any significant impact and really doubt he will play much, but will wait and hope.

He is a young unproven player. Who knows what he will develop into, but it isn't like they can't use the depth DE. It is the NUMBER ONE priority in the draft in 2011 and they know it. They addressed DT the last couple drafts and now they will address DE.

Agreed. I also think they thought Stylez would do well - EPIC FAIL. 2011 draft, DE and RB - hell, I would even go for DE, DE - after all, it all starts up front.

I would go weakside DE, MLB, strongside DE, guard/center, guard/center, of course all are contingent on value. The good news(?) is that the race to 10, is looking more like a waddle to 5, as they seemingly do not have any answers to the deficiencies in rush defense, pass rush and running game...so, bad season equals improved the draft position. The Rams game will really show if they are improving, as the Rams excel in doing the things where we are weak. This is a critical game for the Bucs, they really need to win as it would be a huge confidence booster and at 4 and 2, it'll take a lot longer to get to a losing record. If they get gashed again, then you won't need a plunger, the season will go down the toilet quite easily.

I think most people are assuming that Alex Magee is a true DE. He actually is not. Like many 3-4 DE's he is a converted DT. He did play some DE in college, but that was due to injuries on the Purdue D-line. His sack total in college is actually not terrible considering he is not a natural edge rusher. I think he was brought in to replace Stylez White as the DE when we go to 3 man fronts. My fear is that this means we will still be running those often, which I think is not a good thing. We are better out of the 4-3. I don't know why Morris is hell bent on this 3-3-5 defense.

Why does everyone automatically assume the FO got this guy for his pass-rushing and knock his lack of production in that department? The guy is 298 lbs, and we have the worst run defense in the league. He could have been acquired to help out the run defense and build depth. Everyone knows we're drafting a pass-rushing DE next year, so why not add to the depth this year with a run defender? Chill out and let everything play out. It's not an overnight job to turn around a 3-13 team, but it appears so far that Dom and Raheem are on the right track.

The only problem I see with this trade is I feel the K.C. talent evaluators do a better job than the Bucs. If they felt this guy was going to amount to anything I do not feel they would have dealt him. I view this attempt nothing more than filling a roster spot for next season when the Bucs get rid of Ryan Sims. I would say this guy is similar to him, but one positive is the ability to play end, probably mediocre at best.

can you please explain what you mean by "the KC talent evaluators do a better job than than the bucs"?

Glad to see they are doing something...Seems like we coach these lower tier guys up..we then give them a middle contract then they suck again. What pisses me off the most is that I'm going against SJax in my fantasy league. What's the single game rushing record? Honestly, we should have expected this...it will take time for the rookies to make a difference. Plus, we did nothing at d-end to improve. So why are we shocked that we cant stop the run or rush the passer. I hope we can keep these game close so that Freeman sees a normal defense. My fear is that Teams will know that they can run for 250yrds and will play basic defense..then when its a 3score game go into prevent. (On a side note: what was Cinci coaching staff thinking with their game plan against the Bucs?)

Don't we already have Kyle Moore?

Kyle who? Exactly.

They shoulda traded for Tyson Jackson, DE on KC.

With any luck he could be our next never to reach above 6 sacks master. The next________________(insert name of anyone we have had since Rice)!

Well I guess I'm glad they are doing something. But honestly, what does it change. Oh he's good at 4-3?! Please. I've never heard of this guy and I am obsessed with football. There should have been some trades made before the deadline.

Wow! 6 total career sacks in college! This guy is gonna be the next Simeon... CMON PEOPLE getta grip this guy isnt any better than what we already have. The bottom line is we have the worst TALENT at the DE position in the entire league! Wake up!!! And Im tired of people on here saying anyone that critisizes our team isnt a true fan.. Its called the truth get over it. The Bucs at the moment have the worst front 4 in the NFL!

IMO sacks aren't the only way to measure talent.

If you take away the name on that espn report, you probably couldn't even tell which one of our linemen it is on. As of right now, he is just another 3-5 in a group of 3-5s', on a scale of 10.

Another nice mediocre player who can't help the team. Just what we needed for that perfect 5-11 season.

why don't you think he can't help the team?

Well I'm sure he could drive the team bus to the airport, so he could help out some. But if the Chiefs are trading their 3rd round draft pick after one year that doesn't sound like they think much of him. Especially when you consider that a defensive lineman is supposed to take 2 or 3 years to develop. He must have been a real sad sack for them to not even give him a quarter of a second year to develop.

Hopefully he can stop the run and get the pressure on the quarterback we need. Also he might be better in the 4-3 defense considering he played it in college. The reason he wasn't producing much in KC is because he was in the 3-4 and wasn't use to it. I like this trade. Let's make something out of it Buc's.

Two sacks his rookie season. If he gets that this season it will be worth the trade. plus at 298 he should be able to hold his own on running plays.

Ok so I'm glad that we did something at DE. But it begs the question why KC gave up on a 3rd round pick after 1 season. Let's hope we found a diamond in the rough. He can't be any worse than what we've got.

Whether you like it or not, Mark Dominic is going to acquire young talent for this franchise. Young, big lineman rule this league on both sides of the ball. Solid teams are usually deep with minimal dropoff after the starters. In building depth now, Dom is allowing himself the chance to grab a couple of stars in next year's draft, regardless of position. Believe or not, the Bucs are improving, talentwise. The coaching is still to be desired, IMO....

We are still in the race.....Step up the game Bucs!

We should change his position to Tight End and then put him in as a running back on game day......

Well at least they did do something? I mean well see how he turns out. Dominik has a small tract record of doing this while grabbing other teams garbage and turning it into good players (Crowder, Penn) so maybe this Magee will be decent I dont know much about him but I know that he's only 23 and that the Chiefs 3-4 d didnt fit him and he was a 3rd round pick only lasts year so that tells me the bucs had to be at least doing their homework on him.

ESPN's scouting report on him coming out of college -- not encouraging: Magee has good size for the position but needs to add functional strength if he wants to be able to hunker down and stack things up at the point of attack. He played primarily a 3 technique in college and is still learning how to make the transition to defensive end in a 3-4 scheme. He is a good foot athlete with above-average lateral range but tends to let blockers get into his frame making it difficult to disengage and shed. He needs to develop more counter moves as a pass-rusher coming off the edge as he lacks great acceleration and speed coming from the outside.

NFL.com Analysis - "Positives: Stout build with room for at least an additional 5-10 pounds of mass. Versatile defender with experience at defensive tackle and defensive end. Can create problems up front with good initial quickness off the snap. Quick, active hands to slap away the blockers' attempts to latch on to him. Good strength to disengage. Good overall strength for holding up at the point of attack. Can push the pocket as a bull-rusher. Effective short-area tackler who flashes some burst some close. Helped himself with a standout week of practice for the Senior Bowl, demonstrating better redirection and hand technique in pass-rush drills than scouts anticipated. Negatives: Inconsistent. Flashes, but rarely puts together a string of standout plays. Viewed as a bit of a "tweener" by some. Flashes initial quickness off the snap but lacks the speed and flexibility to get around the edge teams prefer for weak-side defensive ends. Can come off the snap too high and lose leverage in the running game. Isn't stout enough to handle the double-team inside. Doesn't make enough plays behind the line of scrimmage due to inconsistent lateral quickness. Needs an open lane to make plays. May struggle to locate the ball. Compares To: CLIFTON RYAN, St. Louis -- Magee is a jack-of-all-trades who can play tackle or end. He shows nimble feet and good pursuit quickness to make plays along the line or when shooting the gaps. He lacks great bulk, but compensates with his strength to stack and control. He plays with good effort and desire moving laterally and while he won't ever be a quality pass rusher, the experience at defensive end can only help when he returns to his more natural position inside at the next level. A team looking for a quick under tackle like Ryan or Arizona's Darnell Dockett could find a similar player in Magee."

Thank God Dom trades for young talent instead of washed up vets. Now all we need is a good DL coach to coach these guys up!

Undisclosed picks on both sides makes it sound like a 5 for Magee and a 7. That'd be my guess.

I think KC is now using a 3 -4 and Magee didn't fit. Of course we've been 3 - 3 -5ing it an awful lot lately.

His size is perfect for a DE in a 3-4....what are you talking about?

I would say it's better than nothing, but who knows? I'm not going to burn the 2nd year guy, but theres a reason why KC didnt want him anymore. Raheem will say he's an "ascending talent, a young guy that... that can come in here and get something going... will add some competition to the DE element of our football team...blah...blah...blah" Welcome to the team Alex, we hope you can make an impact on our awful pass rush.

Thank you for doing something . Go Bucs!