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    • TBChucky

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      Post count: 1408

      Hindsight is always 20/20, but did the Bucs mess up trading away the pick Buffalo selected Josh Allen with? Vita Vea is a cornerstone to this team, and One of my favorite Bucs. MJ Stewart is in Cleveland. Carlton Davis can be a shutdown CB at times, when used properly. But we had a young potential franchise QB with great mobility and a cannon arm sitting there. Jameis was coming off a year where he was suspended for groping an Uber driver, and had 19 TDs to 11 Ints in 13 games. Considering how his situation went down, we could’ve cut bait sooner. I’ll be honest, I thought we fleeced Buffalo. But they could be set for years at QB. I honestly didn’t expect Allen to be any good. But I guarantee you they don’t regret the trade. I’m very excited to have Brady, and be back in the playoffs. But this is a short term lease, obviously. So I ask, if you could do the 2018 draft over would you still make that trade?

      No Derwin James homers please..

    • RHBucsFan

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      Post count: 1800

      Obvious to me NOW we should of taken Josh Allen. At the time he was a major unknown. He would of been a phenomenal solution to our QB problems.

    • Detrimental

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      Post count: 1583

      Not going to lie I did not think Josh Allen was going to be any good. That said, Davis & Vea = future pro bowlers at important positions. I’d call it a wash at this point. Allen is having a tremendous year but not sure if he will sustain this rest or his career.

    • TBChucky

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      Post count: 1408

      Dude can throw the ball down field effortlessly with a flick of the wrist.. He’s really impressed me this season.

    • Biggs3535

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      Post count: 6075

      At the time, moving back was the right move. The use of those draft picks were not.

      Obviously using hindsight and knowing how much Josh Allen has improved himself, hell yeah he should have been the pick. But I’m not a huge fan of criticism by hindsight.

    • seekpar

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      Post count: 961

      Bucs ownership and management thought at the time that they had their franchise QB set for several more years, so they were looking to bolster the team in other areas. Of course knowing what we know now, they were mistaken at the time. I think this is why a lot of Bucs fans get upset when there is any talk of Winston. He basically stifled some progress for the franchise during the five years he was here through his poor play and bad behavior.

    • JC5100

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      Post count: 3210

      Winston was coming off a severe regression and was facing suspension so maybe it shouldn’t have been a far fetched idea. The 2017 season was when the serious doubts about Winston started popping up, then the Uber driver thing got uncovered.

    • buc_boi

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      Post count: 3257

      What a bust Derwin James was, lol.

      Do you think we would have still made the playoffs this year with Josh Allen at QB?

      I’m not saying we would or wouldn’t, but comparing us to Buffalo is kinda comparing apples to oranges IMO.

    • leeroybuc93

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      Post count: 1357

      In hindsight I’d say we should have drafted Allen but he was never a real consideration at the time. I don’t fault anyone for that decision. I’m happy with Vea and Davis. Wish we’d have done better with the Stewart pick.

    • TBChucky

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      Post count: 1408

      Not saying Derwin James is a bust.. He’s a stud. Just didn’t want to ignite that debate again lol.. I was happy with Vea then, and I still am now.

      What a bust Derwin James was, lol.

      Do you think we would have still made the playoffs this year with Josh Allen at QB?

      I’m not saying we would or wouldn’t, but comparing us to Buffalo is kinda comparing apples to oranges IMO.

    • JC5100

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      Post count: 3210

      It didnt have to be Josh Allen. Still think Lamar is better.

    • Hockey Duckie

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      Post count: 1447

      At the time, moving back was the right move. The use of those draft picks were not.

      Obviously using hindsight and knowing how much Josh Allen has improved himself, hell yeah he should have been the pick. But I’m not a huge fan of criticism by hindsight.

      There’s a whole lotta context missing here. If LG Nelson dropped to 7th overall, then we wouldn’t have traded down. ::: Full Stop :::

      Since we had Winston, but we didn’t have a run game, addressing the OG position should have been a priority, which is kinda was when Licht was deadset on LG Nelson with the 7th overall pick.

      Here’s the problem with the OP’s idea… it relies on grabbing the best. Allen turned out great. Nelson was presumed the best OG prospect and proved to be correct. But do you need the best? When the Colts picked up LG Nelson in 2018, they also drafted RT/RG Braden Smith at the top of the 2nd round. Smith started at RG and shifted to RT when Haeg got injured. Smith did so well there, that Haeg never regained that starting position.

      When the Bucs traded down from 7th to 12th, they picked up two second rounders in picks 53 and 56, to combine with our own 38th selection. There was early mocks predicting a possible 8 OL being drafted in the 1st round. Six went in the first round and three went at the top of the 2nd round before the Bucs. One went right after the Bucs. With more trading capital, the Bucs traded into the bottom of the 3rd round to address the void of a starting RG going into 2018 with Cappa.

      Why did Licht wait until the bottom of the third round to address a starting RG position needed for the team when Licht identified he would have drafted LG Nelson with the 7th overall pick? That’s what so many fans are oblivious in thought review.

      31. NE: RB Michel
      32. Bal: QB Jackson

      33. Cle: OT Corbett
      34. NYG: LG Hernandez
      35. Cle: RB Chubb
      36. Ind: LB Leonard
      37. Ind: RG Braden Smith
      38. TB: RB Rojo
      39. Chi: C Daniels (now is a LG)

      People whine so often about missing out on LG Nelson that they forget there are other potential guards out there that can still be very good at the top of the 2nd round. We could have traded up with NE using Rojo’s and Cappa’s picks (38th, 4th rd, and 6th rd picks).

      If we would have landed a prospect that could actually started in 2018 with a Hernandez, Smith, or Daniels, then we might have been a playoff team because Fitzmagic started off hot until the league figured out it can expose C Jensen- RG Benenoch combo. Fitz and Winston were seeing ghosts all season long. Cappa couldn’t beat out Benenoch.

      Cappa looks average today, three seasons later. We needed a starting RG three seasons ago. We can’t get back time and opportunity.

      Licht pulled a Game of Thrones such that he was trying to subvert the expectations. We needed a starting RG, but don’t address it until the bottom of the 3rd round with a project OL in Cappa. We could have drafted Cappa in the fifth or sixth round. I think Cappa would have gone undrafted. Remember, Licht thought K Aguayo was a 2nd round talent.

    • Donkey_Hunter

      Participant
      Post count: 1443

      It didnt have to be Josh Allen. Still think Lamar is better.

      What?!?!

    • RW

      Participant
      Post count: 287

      Obvious to me NOW we should of taken Josh Allen. At the time he was a major unknown. He would of been a phenomenal solution to our QB problems.

      To the Bucs past Q problems. Certainly don’t have one now.

    • TBChucky

      Participant
      Post count: 1408

      I wanted Nelson to fall to us so bad.. It sucked to see the Colts take him right before our pick..

      At the time, moving back was the right move. The use of those draft picks were not.

      Obviously using hindsight and knowing how much Josh Allen has improved himself, hell yeah he should have been the pick. But I’m not a huge fan of criticism by hindsight.

      There’s a whole lotta context missing here. If LG Nelson dropped to 7th overall, then we wouldn’t have traded down. ::: Full Stop :::

      Since we had Winston, but we didn’t have a run game, addressing the OG position should have been a priority, which is kinda was when Licht was deadset on LG Nelson with the 7th overall pick.

      Here’s the problem with the OP’s idea… it relies on grabbing the best. Allen turned out great. Nelson was presumed the best OG prospect and proved to be correct. But do you need the best? When the Colts picked up LG Nelson in 2018, they also drafted RT/RG Braden Smith at the top of the 2nd round. Smith started at RG and shifted to RT when Haeg got injured. Smith did so well there, that Haeg never regained that starting position.

      When the Bucs traded down from 7th to 12th, they picked up two second rounders in picks 53 and 56, to combine with our own 38th selection. There was early mocks predicting a possible 8 OL being drafted in the 1st round. Six went in the first round and three went at the top of the 2nd round before the Bucs. One went right after the Bucs. With more trading capital, the Bucs traded into the bottom of the 3rd round to address the void of a starting RG going into 2018 with Cappa.

      Why did Licht wait until the bottom of the third round to address a starting RG position needed for the team when Licht identified he would have drafted LG Nelson with the 7th overall pick? That’s what so many fans are oblivious in thought review.

      31. NE: RB Michel
      32. Bal: QB Jackson

      33. Cle: OT Corbett
      34. NYG: LG Hernandez
      35. Cle: RB Chubb
      36. Ind: LB Leonard
      37. Ind: RG Braden Smith
      38. TB: RB Rojo
      39. Chi: C Daniels (now is a LG)

      People whine so often about missing out on LG Nelson that they forget there are other potential guards out there that can still be very good at the top of the 2nd round. We could have traded up with NE using Rojo’s and Cappa’s picks (38th, 4th rd, and 6th rd picks).

      If we would have landed a prospect that could actually started in 2018 with a Hernandez, Smith, or Daniels, then we might have been a playoff team because Fitzmagic started off hot until the league figured out it can expose C Jensen- RG Benenoch combo. Fitz and Winston were seeing ghosts all season long. Cappa couldn’t beat out Benenoch.

      Cappa looks average today, three seasons later. We needed a starting RG three seasons ago. We can’t get back time and opportunity.

      Licht pulled a Game of Thrones such that he was trying to subvert the expectations. We needed a starting RG, but don’t address it until the bottom of the 3rd round with a project OL in Cappa. We could have drafted Cappa in the fifth or sixth round. I think Cappa would have gone undrafted. Remember, Licht thought K Aguayo was a 2nd round talent.

    • BuccaNOLEer

      Participant
      Post count: 807

      Why are we even discussing this? We weren’t thinking of moving on from Jameis at that point so the fact that we didn’t get Josh Allen is moot. The hard thing is that there was much better talent than MJ Stewart/Ronald Jones.

    • BucsBay

      Participant
      Post count: 1949

      I remember taking a lot of sh1t that year for liking Josh Allen the best of the QBs. I was locked in on Bradley Chubb or Derwin James though, so I can’t say I was that much smarter. Just smarter than everyone else on the board, because everyone else said Allen was going to be a bust.

    • Hockey Duckie

      Participant
      Post count: 1447

      I remember taking a lot of sh1t that year for liking Josh Allen the best of the QBs. I was locked in on Bradley Chubb or Derwin James though, so I can’t say I was that much smarter. Just smarter than everyone else on the board, because everyone else said Allen was going to be a bust.

      Ummm… I think everyone was predicting that we’d be trading down from a team needing a QB because we already had ours, once LG Nelson was drafted one pick before us. I don’t think many of us had any real thoughts on QB projections. Most of us were dead set on S James after the trade down. Pewter Report was the only media who identified DT Vea.

    • acacius

      Participant
      Post count: 490

      What a bust Derwin James was, lol.

      Do you think we would have still made the playoffs this year with Josh Allen at QB?

      I’m not saying we would or wouldn’t, but comparing us to Buffalo is kinda comparing apples to oranges IMO.

      If he developed like he has with Buffalo, I have a hard time imagining us not having made the playoffs with him. Maybe with a lower seed, but Chicago made it in with an 8-8 record. That said, that’s a pretty non-trivial “if”. I know, I know, Arians is the quarterback whisperer. But what can I say – I’m traumatized by a lifetime of Tampa’s attempts to develop young quarterbacks.

    • acacius

      Participant
      Post count: 490

      At the time, moving back was the right move. The use of those draft picks were not.

      Obviously using hindsight and knowing how much Josh Allen has improved himself, hell yeah he should have been the pick. But I’m not a huge fan of criticism by hindsight.

      There’s a whole lotta context missing here. If LG Nelson dropped to 7th overall, then we wouldn’t have traded down. ::: Full Stop :::

      Since we had Winston, but we didn’t have a run game, addressing the OG position should have been a priority, which is kinda was when Licht was deadset on LG Nelson with the 7th overall pick.

      Here’s the problem with the OP’s idea… it relies on grabbing the best. Allen turned out great. Nelson was presumed the best OG prospect and proved to be correct. But do you need the best? When the Colts picked up LG Nelson in 2018, they also drafted RT/RG Braden Smith at the top of the 2nd round. Smith started at RG and shifted to RT when Haeg got injured. Smith did so well there, that Haeg never regained that starting position.

      When the Bucs traded down from 7th to 12th, they picked up two second rounders in picks 53 and 56, to combine with our own 38th selection. There was early mocks predicting a possible 8 OL being drafted in the 1st round. Six went in the first round and three went at the top of the 2nd round before the Bucs. One went right after the Bucs. With more trading capital, the Bucs traded into the bottom of the 3rd round to address the void of a starting RG going into 2018 with Cappa.

      Why did Licht wait until the bottom of the third round to address a starting RG position needed for the team when Licht identified he would have drafted LG Nelson with the 7th overall pick? That’s what so many fans are oblivious in thought review.

      31. NE: RB Michel
      32. Bal: QB Jackson

      33. Cle: OT Corbett
      34. NYG: LG Hernandez
      35. Cle: RB Chubb
      36. Ind: LB Leonard
      37. Ind: RG Braden Smith
      38. TB: RB Rojo
      39. Chi: C Daniels (now is a LG)

      People whine so often about missing out on LG Nelson that they forget there are other potential guards out there that can still be very good at the top of the 2nd round. We could have traded up with NE using Rojo’s and Cappa’s picks (38th, 4th rd, and 6th rd picks).

      If we would have landed a prospect that could actually started in 2018 with a Hernandez, Smith, or Daniels, then we might have been a playoff team because Fitzmagic started off hot until the league figured out it can expose C Jensen- RG Benenoch combo. Fitz and Winston were seeing ghosts all season long. Cappa couldn’t beat out Benenoch.

      Cappa looks average today, three seasons later. We needed a starting RG three seasons ago. We can’t get back time and opportunity.

      Licht pulled a Game of Thrones such that he was trying to subvert the expectations. We needed a starting RG, but don’t address it until the bottom of the 3rd round with a project OL in Cappa. We could have drafted Cappa in the fifth or sixth round. I think Cappa would have gone undrafted. Remember, Licht thought K Aguayo was a 2nd round talent.

      To this day, I remain convinced that they were targeting Nick Chubb in the 2nd and panicked when Cleveland took him.

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