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    • Nobody

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      Post count: 6444

      As of this very moment, I’m completely ignorant on all of these guys. I’ve watched less college football this year than I’ve ever watched in my life, so I come into this as virtually a blank slate…a complete nub.

      I’m going to look at:

      Quinnen Williams DT Alabama
      Jonah Williams OT Alabama
      Josh Allen Edge Kentucky
      Clellin Ferrell Edge Clemson
      Greedy Williams CB LSU
      DeAndre Baker CB Georgia

      And in case of a trade-down…

      Devin White LB LSU

      Once done, I’ll have thoughts on BPA. Every one of these positions are (desperate) need positions, with only LB being value-challenged (unless we trade back).

      Going to start with Quinnen Williams below.

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    • Ft Myers Buc Fan

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      Post count: 391

      I would also include Oliver from Houston

       

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    • Jr.3

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      Post count: 424

      There a CB out of Washington that might enter the draft also, I think his name is Byron Murphy? Anyways I read where most the scouts think he’s better than Greedy and Baker. I don’t like the idea of spending a top 5 pick on a CB unless he’s the next PimeTime.

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      • David Frost

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        Post count: 50

        If CB our first pick I’d rather trade down get extra 2nd get CB Murphy from Washington then use 2 2NDS in OL and DL

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    • Roy

      Participant
      Post count: 3325

      As I said in another thread, its way to early to tell, but its possible that the Bucs may be in a position to trade down a bit because the two teams after will probably be drafting quarterbacks.   The quarterbacks won’t come into play for the first few picks, but by pick five that isn’t too early for a team who really needs one.  That is if a couple of these quarterbacks start to look good during the predraft events.  So that puts the Bucs in the position that someone could trade up if they want a specific quarterback.

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    • tampaspicer

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      Post count: 3477

      There a CB out of Washington that might enter the draft also, I think his name is Byron Murphy? Anyways I read where most the scouts think he’s better than Greedy and Baker. I don’t like the idea of spending a top 5 pick on a CB unless he’s the next PimeTime.

      I saw a story where Jimmy Lake (Washington’s D coordinator/dB coach) told high school coaches if they had a player that didn’t have the skill set to play in the NFL don’t bother sending him their tape.

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    • Nobody

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      Post count: 6444

      QUINNEN WILLIAMS VS OLE MISS AND TEXAS A&M 2018

      Traits I can see:

      THE GOOD

      * fluid, easy mover for his size.

      * Played both 1 tech and 3 tech and played both well.

      * When singled, I saw elite get-off and absolutely elite hand-use (this kind of maturity is uncommon) to rip/swim after winning the B gap and the ability to consistently force the QB off his spot. However, I did see some issues with the ability to drop his hips and change direction at full bore, which prevented the ability to finish.

      * I saw the same elite hand-use against the Zone running game. This is also coupled with processing speed. He reads a bucket step on a Zone run extremely quickly and is ready to either beat the OL in the effort to cross his face or evade with a swim/rip on Inside Zone.

      * Processing speed or general football IQ. There are many snaps where he seems to either (a) read his keys extremely quickly and have a plan to deal with it immediately or (b) its a product of great preparation. Either way, its a very good thing.

      THE BAD

      * Doubled a lot in pass protection. When he was doubled, I sometimes saw a tendency to not work (effectively taking the play off).

      * Had some struggles on Man runs. Would lose in being the first to punch and extend and got stood up a few times.

      * When the ball is away from him, I saw some loafs.

      * On some initial wins at LoS, he would sometimes get high with his hips and allow his man (or someone else) to recover and wall him off.

      * Sometimes playing high initially or the ability to consistently sink hips in traffic can (a) lead to leverage problems at the LoS (lack of consistently functional play strength) and/or (b) ankle or knee injuries (see Howard, OJ).

      * I don’t see a terrifically violent football player.

      +++++++++++++++++

      Overall, I’m seeing someone that looks like a poor man’s Aaron Donald; elite get-off (north-south and east-west), elite hand-usage (which is crazy how mature it is for a college player), with great processing speed/IQ, and a plan…but I find his propensity to play high will hurt his ability to finish off Pressures and win the PoA on Man runs right at him, possibly lead to lower half injuries, and I see a willingness to take some plays off.

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    • Nobody

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      Post count: 6444

      Ed Oliver and Byron Murphy (Huskies are basically DBU at this point every bit as much as LSU). Got it. I’ll take a look at those guys as well.

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    • JC5100

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      Post count: 2978

      Byron Murphy playing vs Ohio State today. Better CB than Greedy Williams, think he can transition to being an elite safety.

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    • Nobody

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      Post count: 6444

      Byron Murphy playing vs Ohio State today. Better CB than Greedy Williams, think he can transition to being an elite safety.

      10-4

      I haven’t been paying much attention to draft prospect threads. Is that a growing consensus on this board; Murphy being a climber?

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    • Nobody

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      Post count: 6444

      JONAH WILLIAMS VS GEORGIA 2018 AND CLEMSON 2017

      Traits I see…

      THE GOOD

      * Fluid, balanced, yet technical movement in his Vertical Sets.

      * Great with his hands, footwork, and base when pass blocking edge rushes.

      * Good lateral footwork and sunk hips on Zone runs allows him to get where he needs to be and have leverage.

      * Typically good hand placement in both the Pass Sets and the run game.

      THE BAD

      * Feet can stall out in the running game.

      * Lack of violence or finish.

      * While his vertical sets are good, I saw some potential issues with dynamic countermoves back to the inside at the next level (he had some struggles with NCAA players).

      * Sometimes plays too high and can be late dealing with games.

      * Late with his hands when he has to go back to his right (eg DL games or 2nd level blitzes).

      ++++++++++++

      Overall, I see a very capable and consistent pass protector (especially dealing with kicking and preventing the edge-bend), a pretty decent 1st level Zone run blocker, an average mover in space + not feet stalling + lack of finish (means below average 2nd level Zone and Screen player), and not someone who is ever going to be a point-of-attack blocker.

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      • Roy

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        Post count: 3325

        On Jonah, do you think he is a left tackle in the NFL or right tackle?

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      • CaptainStagger

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        Post count: 448

        Yes on Murphy…..he is in the 3 man CB race for top spot with Baker and Williams.

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    • Nobody

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      Post count: 6444

      On Jonah, do you think he is a left tackle in the NFL or right tackle?

      LT for sure given what I saw in those two games. His skill set and deficiencies scream LT over RT.

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    • Biggs3535

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      Post count: 5866

      Byron Murphy just gave up a deep completion by letting a man run right by him and not getting deep enough in his zone.

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    • Nobody

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      Post count: 6444

      I’m going to look at Allen tonight.

      I watched a bit more of Williams and Williams to confirm my thoughts. My thoughts on the two prospects are:

      1) Either of them would be good for us if our new offense (a) primarily features Zone running game and (b) doesn’t feature an abundance of Bubble/Tunnel/Smoke Screens to the left side. I don’t see the LT being great in space or great as a Man/Gap blocker. As an edge protector and Zone blocker, my guess is Jonah would be worth the pick.

      2) Conversely, if our new scheme’s running game features a lot of Man/Gap runs and Bubble/Tunnel/Smoke Screens to the left side, then I’ll take Quinnen over Jonah for sure.

      3) However, if we run a 2 Gap 3-4, I’m not convinced that Quinnen can 2 gap as a DE. If we play a 1 Gap, penetrating 3-4, then Quinnen should be plenty good.

       

       

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    • Nobody

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      Post count: 6444

      JOSH ALLEN EDGE KENTUCKY VS MISSISSIPPI STATE AND FLORIDA 2018

      Before, I go into much, he’s used in a hybrid role. They play a ton of 3-3-5 and he is effectively playing a combination of a LEO/DEVIL (a backfield havoc wreaker and sometimes an edge-setter) but he’s also playing SPUR as he’s dropping into coverage. This is where the comparison to Mack is apt I think.

      The traits I saw…

      THE GOOD

      * Fluid athlete that moves extremely well coming downhill off the edge, working laterally down the LoS, or dropping back into Flat/Hook & Seam coverage.

      * Trivially wins the edge pretty regularly with either a speed rush or a stutter-and-go (very Mack and Donald win with this a lot) and has the ankle flexion to bend it with a 300 lb OT leaning on him.

      * Actually quite good in typical SPUR LB coverage in terms of both mobility and awareness of threats to his zone (he’s finding and covering defenders, not grass).

      * When he has his hands in the dirt and is forced to edge-set, he does a very good job with his pad level and hands (so his play strength looks good as a DE).

      THE BAD

      * I saw him fail his assignment pretty badly a few times on ZRO both due to lack of awareness and open field tackling (come down on the RB on a keep and lose contain when he was edge-setting and get juked by the QB in the open field when he had contain).

      * I’m not seeing a mature suite of pass rush moves (or countermoves) like you see in Quinnen Williams. I’m seeing him winning the edge by speed rush or stutter-and-go and winning the edge and some stray speed to power.

      * I see a lot of coverage plays (primarily Flat coverage, but sometimes Hook/Seam) where he’s within 12 yards or so of the ball and he doesn’t pursue the ball carrier (barely a jog). I don’t love that.

      * Despite his consistent pressure, I see (a) a lot of instances of lack of finish due to the inability to dynamically change direction at full-speed (slipping and falling or just being incapable of dropping his hips and changing direction to get to a QB climbing the pocket or evading) and (b) instances of lack of tenaciousness in pursuit after he hasn’t made the play immediately. I don’t love either of those traits.

      ++++++++++++++++++

      Back to the comparison to Khalil Mack? Its apt in what they ask of Allen is very similar o Mack, but he isn’t remotely as explosive, violent, or relentless as Mack.

      To me, he looks like some kind of hybrid of Chicago’s OLBs and Myles Garrett; Mack and Floyd with Myles Garrett’s Senior year tape (where he throttles it back quite a bit now and again or doesn’t pursue tenaciously).

      Like Quinnen Williams, I see a finish problem. This is the same issue that has haunted McCoy in the course of his career (and its the primary facet of their game that makes Donald, Mack, and Watt are so productive…they finish).

      Its difficult to teach finish and tenacity. A fair bit of that is nature (the inherent athletic ability to drop your hips and change direction at full go and the understanding of angles of intercept…the ridiculous strength once you get a single paw/arm on someone.), not nurture.

      However, people can get better at these traits. He had 21.5 Tackles for Loss and 17 Sacks his Senior Year. If this kid was tenacious finisher, those numbers would be off the charts, because so many times he is making a mess of the backfield or generating Pressures and just not finishing.

      My thoughts on him is that he’ll be a poor-man’s Khalil Mack (which is to say, a very good player) or a Leonard Floyd who is a much, much better pass rusher. His ceiling is way up there, it just depends on how much he loves football.

      I think I like him better with his hand in the dirt (he seems to play more physically when he’s playing DE vs standing up), but his coverage skills are surprisingly good.

      At this point, I’d go:

      1a and 1b (no particular order)

      Quinnen Williams
      Josh Allen

      (a distant) 2

      Jonah Williams

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    • Nobody

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      Post count: 6444

      CLELIN FERRELL RDE VS A&M AND AND BOSTON COLLEGE 2018

      Few quick thoughts. Its somewhat difficult to judge Ferrell’s tape vs a 7 (or higher) tech hybrid DE like Allen because Ferrel (even though he is playing RDE) is playing 4 and 5 tech so much of the time. He’s also 2-gapping a LOT, so his tape shows a TON of intentionally engaging the LT to control B and C (or cutback if its the other way) while trying to re-establish the LoS a yard or so back.

      Basically, he and Allen have two VERY different roles on defense.

      However, Ferrell is given opportunities to rush the passer freely.

      Traits I’ve noticed…

      THE GOOD

      * Good frame and appears to have long arms.

      * Uses his hands extremely well (to turn, for leverage, to shed), plays with good bend, pad level and all of this leads to + play strength. Appears to be a solid point-of-attack player and flow-down-the-line player who is disciplined against the cutback. All of the above adds up to him being a good run defender in the NFL.

      * + (but not devastating) get-off when he isn’t 2 gapping.

      * Versatility as both a 1 gap and 2 gap player.

      * I see an assignment-sound, aware football player who knows what the offense is trying to do, knows what he is supposed to do, and he does it.

      THE BAD

      * I don’t see a dynamically athletic, explosive DE on tape. His get-off and athleticism are both certainly +, but not devastating. Even though he is playing 4 and 5 technique, I don’t think he will be a great 7 tech DE (which are the speed-rushing, edge-benders who you draft at the top of the draft).

      * I don’t see a mature suite of pass rush moves. I see an effort guy who uses his hands pretty well, works hard, wins now and again and finishes off his own work (when it comes to fruition) or cleans up someone else’s.

      * Good play strength, but I don’t see a violent/mean-streak kind of player as his predecessor Bradley Chubb was (and is in the NFL). Don’t get me wrong. I don’t see timidity, but I definitely don’t see violence that jumps out at you.

      ++++++++++

      This is not Bradley Chubb. Not by a long shot.

      He looks to me like a Carlos Dunlap and Derek Barnett type of player. An assignment-sound, 3 down DE who is extremely good against the run and will give you solid (though not devastating) pass-rush in the NFL.

      To update, I’m going with:

      1a and 1b

      Quinnen Williams (DT) and Josh Allen (DE)

      2

      Jonah Williams (LT)

      3

      Ferrell (RDE)

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    • BucsBay

      Participant
      Post count: 1932

      It almost seems like you have a predeposition against Ferrell. The A&M and the BC tapes were his worst, and they were still pretty good imo. For BC, I only saw the full defensive tape on youtube, and from that you could see that he played maybe 50% of the snaps and BC was just playing scared, not to get their QB killed the whole game anyway.

      I agree that he isn’t quite the same prospect as Chubb, but I think they have a lot of similarities. Chubb isn’t blowing by anyone either. They are both speed to power guys who are very good at using leverage to get through their lineman to the QB. Both of them hustle. Chubb was more technically sound with his hands, and has a better body for handling and fighting contact. I really like Ferrells’ first step though. I like these Voch Lombardi film sessions, and I only started to watch the Ferrell one. That first step seems to show up a lot.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLToRPGP3Uw&t=397s

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    • Nobody

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      Post count: 6444

      @BucsBay

      Predispostion? I’m not sure I can figure out what your evidence for that would be? Something like “Bucs fans are scared of Clemson DEs maybe?”

      The traits I see are the traits I see.

      I just watched the 2017 NC State tape. I see the same things as above. I see a fundamentally sound, assignment sound, disciplined, 4 and 5 tech DE who is great with his hands, great with leverage, has + get-off.

      That is a guy you draft mid-1st, not top 5.

      And while I agree that he and Chubb have some similarities, I think that is about where it ends. Chubb was good in college (and immediately in the pros) in all of the ways that Ferrell is. However, he’s MUCH more violent through contact, bigger bodies, more sudden in terms of short area burst, his inside rush makes his outside rush devastating (stutter and guy forces oversets and he wins the edge), and he’s a better finisher.

      Simply put, Chubb was one of the most complete and physically capable (and consistently willing) edge players I’ve watched in college. No holes whatsoever. His ridiculous production in year one (playing out of position a lot) should have surprised no one.

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    • Nobody

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      Post count: 6444

      Let me say one last thing on Ferrell.

      Ive got concerns about his immediate transition to the pros because Clemson has him playing the kind of techniques you see in the NFL that a 3-4 DE or an edge-setting 43 Over LE would be playing in the pros.

      Yet he’s way undersized for that in the NFL (those guys are 280 to 295).

      So, I assume folks are going to want him to play the classic 7 tech 43 RE in the NFL. That will (a) be a transition for him and (b) I don’t see the physical traits on tape (part of that could be the role he plays in the Clemson D) to support the projection of a dominant 7 tech (which he would need to be to warrant a top 5 pick).

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    • Pepsi

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      Post count: 2047

      Im on board with your order.  For me its Bosa>Q.Williams>Allen>J.Williams

      Have to look more at the other DTs and the top Corners to rank it after that. I dont think id put a corner above Jonah Williams though so its really whether theres another DT worthy of taking over him. if not though, it would seem one of the above guys should probably be our pick. Then we can give Licht props for how genius he was for taking the best prospect at pick 5 *eyesroll*

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    • Detrimental

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      Post count: 1538

      Im on board with your order. For me its Bosa>Q.Williams>Allen>J.Williams

      Have to look more at the other DTs and the top Corners to rank it after that. I dont think id put a corner above Jonah Williams though so its really whether theres another DT worthy of taking over him. if not though, it would seem one of the above guys should probably be our pick. Then we can give Licht props for how genius he was for taking the best prospect at pick 5 *eyesroll*

      Very possible those 4 go in that order. Then Bucs have a decision to make with Greedy Williams.

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    • leeroybuc93

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      Post count: 1278

      Im on board with your order. For me its Bosa>Q.Williams>Allen>J.Williams

      Have to look more at the other DTs and the top Corners to rank it after that. I dont think id put a corner above Jonah Williams though so its really whether theres another DT worthy of taking over him. if not though, it would seem one of the above guys should probably be our pick. Then we can give Licht props for how genius he was for taking the best prospect at pick 5 *eyesroll*

      Very possible those 4 go in that order. Then Bucs have a decision to make with Greedy Williams.

      Yeah. I love the analysis but everyone he’s looked at so far, with the exception of Ferrell, stands a good chance of not being there. As of right now Greedy Williams, Byron Murphy, Rashan Gary, Ed Oliver, etc seem more likely to be there.

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    • Pepsi

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      Post count: 2047

      true.. unfortunately theres no QB needy teams in front of us. thats been unusual the last few drafts. I do think Jonah Wiliams is there.  and the likely decision will be between Jonah, the best available DT or Corner, and Ferrell. id be okay with that except not happy about top 5 pick used on a CB.

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    • Nobody

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      Post count: 6444

      I’m going to review the 3 CBs next.

      Here is the thing though. Boundary CB play is not easy to evaluate with stock tape. There is a lot of subtle nuance (that is often the difference-maker between prospects) you miss without the All 22, but I’ll do my best.

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    • Detrimental

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      Post count: 1538

      true.. unfortunately theres no QB needy teams in front of us. thats been unusual the last few drafts. I do think Jonah Wiliams is there. and the likely decision will be between Jonah, the best available DT or Corner, and Ferrell. id be okay with that except not happy about top 5 pick used on a CB.

      Not so sure about that. Darnold was running for his life this whole season and they will probably look to add J. Williams. If he falls to 5 Bucs should run up to the podium without thinking twice.

      ARI – Bosa

      SF – Allen

      NYJ – J. Williams

      OAK – Q. Williams

      TB- Oliver and G. Williams will probably be our options.

       

      Need to see that 40 from Murphy at the combine. Williams has Pat Peterson like skill set minus the return ability.

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    • Nobody

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      Post count: 6444

      GREEDY WILLIAMS VS MIAMI AND GEORGIA 2018

      First off, LSU played a LOT more Off coverage than I expected in this tape. They do play some Press (both jam and bail), but they play a fair amount of Off.

      Traits I noticed…

      THE GOOD

      * Obviously the size and length are impressive, but…

      * …equally as impressive is how well he moves with that size and length. His backpedal is extremely smooth, his ability to drop his hips and drive, and his ability to flip them either way is much, much better than I expected given his size.

      * He has fantastic eye/body discipline, confidence, and patience. You don’t see him getting his hips flipped by receiver feints/moves before the stem of the route. There is very little wasted motion because he sees only what he needs to see, he trusts it, and he trusts his ability to be hip-to-hip post route stem.

      * He uses the boundary very well as another defender on verts.

      * He finds the ball and plays the ball routinely (and obviously the size and length force-multiplies this attribute) and his ball skills are quite good.

      THE BAD

      * His jam/reroute from Press isn’t as technically sound or as effective as I expected it to be.

      * Like all big CBs, he can struggle to prevent momentary separation on in-cutting routes and gets a little too physical on Digs/Posts to ensure that he can stay hip-to-hip. This can lead to flags at the next level or losses on well-anticipated throws. This is probably my biggest fear with him (especially on 3rd and long). However, his ability to quickly recover and his ridiculous length can help him here, if he can stay away from penalties.

      * Willing tackler and actually extremely instinctive in run support, but not remotely consistent in his tackling. Lots of missed tackles on this tape (after doing a great job of reading, reacting, and pursuing).

      +++++++++++++

      Honestly, I really like this tape. He moves so much better than I expected, he’s so disciplined, great ball skills. I’ll be surprised if the other two CBs I review have better tape than this.

      At this point, I’m going to go with:

      1a and 1b

      Quinnen Williams (DT) and Josh Allen (DE)

      2

      Jonah Williams (LT) * especially if we are a Zone-heavy run scheme

      3

      Greedy Williams (CB) * probably a wash with Jonah Williams if we aren’t Zone-heavy run

      4

      Ferrell (RDE)

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    • MichaelMyersIsABucsFan

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      Post count: 730

      Byron Murphy is the best CB in the draft.. ignore Biggs.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      DEANDRE BAKER VS OKLAHOMA, LSU, TENNESSEE 2018

      First off. Baker didn’t have a good game against Oklahoma. He lost badly in Man on a Mesh, he blew a C2Z in the RZ (almost tight) where he didn’t sink enough with no real flat threat and hung the deep half Safety out to dry on a Slant > Corner route from the man he was over, and he had a few other bad plays (including getting bailed out on a bad through, a few times in run support, and lack of discipline on a trick play). Because of this, I watched 3 games instead of 2.

      The traits I saw…

      THE GOOD

      * Great closing quickness on the stem of virtually any route. His ability to redirect and accelerate is really good (despite some movement/technique flaws).

      * Extremely good ball skills. Locates and makes a play on the ball at an extremely high rate.

      * When he isn’t navigating route combinations (just isolated Man or C3Z in a route), he typically is hip to hip with the receiver.

      * Better at Press jam/reroute than I expected.

      THE BAD

      * His frame is prototypical and honestly, he doesn’t move terribly impressively with a standard size CB frame. His hips look stiffer than Williams’ despite the size difference, he doesn’t move and transition as fluidly as Williams, and he is prone to getting high-hipped in his bail technique (which feeds back into the transition issues).

      * His movements are frenetic and panicky and he seems more apt to too aggressively respond to WR pre-stem feints.

      * His awareness of route combinations and zone threats doesn’t appear to be particularly acute so he gets out of position (eg like the C2Z Slant > Corner and the Mesh above…my guess is he struggles with Bunch as well).

      * Not great in run support.

      ++++++++++++++

      The guy’s moneymaker is his ability to drop his hips > accelerate > make play on the ball when isolated. He’s so good with this skill-set that he makes up for some technical flaws and athletic deficiencies.

      However, I’m not convinced by this tape. The NFL is FILLED with complex route combinations and is constantly testing a CB’s discipline/awareness. Further, I think his propensity to be too frenetic with his movements and be high in his bail will cause separation issues in the NFL.

      I don’t see him being close to Greedy Williams to be honest.

      And honestly, I thought about it a little more. I think I like Greedy Williams more than Jonah Williams even if we end up running almost exclusively Zone runs. After this tape I’m going:

      1a and 1b

      Quinnen Williams (DT) and Josh Allen (DE)

      2

      Greedy Williams (CB)

      3

      Jonah Williams (LT)

      4

      Clellin Ferrell (RDE)

      5 (waaaaaaaaaaay down there…I suspect I’ll like a lot more guys over Baker)

      Deandre Baker (CB)

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      ED OLIVER VS OKLAHOMA 2016 AND ARIZONA 2018

      I had to move around a bit in his tape because I wanted to find some legit competition that wasn’t running a lot of gimmicky stuff.

      The traits I saw…

      THE GOOD

      * Great get-off.

      * Plays with great pad level, leverage, violence, and attendant play strength.

      * Utterly relentless. The guys motor doesn’t stop. I love that.

      * Played primarily 0 and 1 technique (almost surely out of position for him), but was still productive. Next level he’ll be playing 3 tech and 1 gapping (which should serve him well).

      THE BAD

      * Pass rush suite is non-existent. Pressure is all get-off, leverage (lower leg strength and good pad level), and relentlessness. That won’t cut it at the next level.

      * Needs to learn to use his hands better. He does a good job of delivering (rather than receiving) the initial blow, but from there, he isn’t remotely technical enough with his hands in disengaging. He’s completely raw there and basically relies on his motor and leverage to fight through and win.

      * Inconsistent at holding his own against Guard/Center double teams in the run game, but I don’t remotely see him as a 2-gapping 0 tech next level.

      +++++++++++++

      The guy is super raw and playing out of position at the college level. In the NFL he’ll be a B gap shooting 3 tech. His ceiling is high, but there is a good chance he won’t be hugely productive for at least the first half of his first year. He needs to learn to use his hands much, much better than he does now (he should) and he needs to learn an actual pass rush suite.

      But he has fantastic get-off, is super physical/violent, and relentless. His ability to win as a 0 tech and 1 tech on that alone is pretty damn impressive. My guess is in year 2, with good NFL coaching, he’ll be an impact football player.

      I’m going:

      1a and 1b

      Quinnen Williams (DT) and Josh Allen (DE)

      2

      Greedy Williams (CB)

      3

      Jonah Williams (LT)

      4

      Clellin Ferrell (RDE)

      5

      Ed Oliver (DT) (could very well ascend to near the top of this heap in year 2 and beyond, but that is difficult to project given his college role and tape).

      6

      Deandre Baker (CB)

      Please wait…

      • 60 min

        Blocked
        Post count: 63

        Hey Nobody, do Dexter Lawrence, I like to read your write up.

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    • SCLOBERNOCKER

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      Post count: 790

      @Nobody

      Fantastic as always my dude

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    • Nobody

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      Post count: 6444

      Byron Murphy is the best CB in the draft.. ignore Biggs.

      I’m going to look at him tonight, but I’d be shocked if he’s better than Greedy Williams. Williams movement ability at that size and length, that awareness, those ball skills.

      Wow. He’s a top 5 player for sure.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      @nobody

      Fantastic as always my dude

      No problem. I’m looking forward to round 2 prospects.

      @60 min

      Where is Lawrence projecting?

      Please wait…

    • BucsBay

      Participant
      Post count: 1932

      Byron Murphy is the best CB in the draft.. ignore Biggs.

      I’m going to look at him tonight, but I’d be shocked if he’s better than Greedy Williams. Williams movement ability at that size and length, that awareness, those ball skills.

      Wow. He’s a top 5 player for sure.

      Do you trust him to guard Julio Jones or Michael Thomas and get them on the ground when they do make a catch? I sure as hell don’t.

      Please wait…

    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      @BucsBay

      His tackling issues are run support, not after the catch.

      I want to say that through 8 games this past year, he had only given up a fraction of RAC and the Passer Rating against him was like 40.1?

      Please wait…

    • BucD

      Participant
      Post count: 1088

      This is a HoF thread right here. Awesome stuff as always, Nobody.

      I can’t wait to see what this thread, and your big board, looks like come April.

      Please wait…

    • JC5100

      Participant
      Post count: 2978

      Nobody, I was put off by what I felt was a lack of route recognition by Greedy Williams. The frame and athleticism are top notch though.

      Please wait…

    • BucsBay

      Participant
      Post count: 1932

      Julio Jones and Michael Thomas would eat up the separation he gives and then stiff him arm his long, skinny ass down.  Kamara and other legit backs would continue to laugh at our edge tackling.

      Please wait…

    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      @JC5100

      Do you mean on in-cutting routes or recognition of combinations when dealing with Stack/Trips/Bunch?

      I think one of the things I really, really like about him is how disciplined he is with his eyes and his body. He is virtually never out of position because he isn’t responding to pre-stem bends and feints. That same discipline sometimes mean he isn’t hip-to-hip right out of the stem on in-cuts (I think this is what you’re referring to), but his make-up acceleration and margin-of-error (due to that frame) is incredible.

      Please wait…

    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      @BucD

      I’m not really going to do a Big Board per se.

      I’m just putting down my process for evaluating prospective picks that may be available where we pick.

      I could use some help with a list of maybe 7ish guys that will likely be around in rd 2 for us (as I’m nearing the end of the rd 1 prospects). So if anyone wants to start throwing out some names, I would appreciate it.

      Please wait…

    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 5866

      @Nobody How about…

      Gerald Willis – DT – Miami

      Michael Jordan – C/G – Ohio State

      Dalton Risner – OL – KSU

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      Thanks @Biggs3535 . Need about 4 more.

      Bama’s ILB who is a good coverage backer is slated for Rd 2 I think? That sound right?

      Please wait…

    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 5866

      Yeah, Mack Wilson is a 2nd/3rd round guy.  He’s a good one to check out.

      I like Devin Bush too, but he’s more 3rd/4th round prospect I think.

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    • 60 min

      Blocked
      Post count: 63

      @nobody

      Fantastic as always my dude

      No problem. I’m looking forward to round 2 prospects.

      @60 min

      Where is Lawrence projecting?

      Drafttek 33th

      Football Dungeon 8th

      CBS 14th

      Please wait…

    • Detrimental

      Participant
      Post count: 1538

      @bucd

      I’m not really going to do a Big Board per se.

      I’m just putting down my process for evaluating prospective picks that may be available where we pick.

      I could use some help with a list of maybe 7ish guys that will likely be around in rd 2 for us (as I’m nearing the end of the rd 1 prospects). So if anyone wants to start throwing out some names, I would appreciate it.

      Chris Lindstorm G Boston College

      Andre Dillard OT Washington State

      Mack Wilson LB

      Michael Deiter G/C Wisconsin

      David Edwards T Wisconsin(was given second round grade by the committee)

       

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      • bodydenny

        Participant
        Post count: 93

        Hey Nobody, If you think of it could you do newly declared CB Julian Love? I want to see if he’s as good as I think he is or if my Irish eyes are clouding my opinion.

        Please wait…

    • Pennywise

      Participant
      Post count: 9745

      Mack Wilson is returning for sr year as of dec 21

      Please wait…

    • dexmonkey

      Participant
      Post count: 1884

      @Nobody

      how about Brian Burns as a 2nd round option (assuming we were going to switch to a 3-4)

      im curious to see how you rate him versus how other websites. ive seen him literally all over the place from Top 15 (hardly likely) to 3rd round

      Please wait…

    • Pennywise

      Participant
      Post count: 9745

      i can see burns going mid first round…no chance he last to rd 3 or rd 2

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      And the last of the CBs

      BYRON MURPHY VS UTAH AND OHIO STATE 2018

      Right quick. The overwhelming amount of coverage involves bail technique even from press. I’m seeing a lot of C3Z and Quarters from the Huskies.

      Traits I saw…

      THE GOOD

      * His bail is quite fluid and his footwork is efficient whether in Press or Off. This is what a predominate C3Z (especially one that features Tight or Press) defense is looking for. He resembles Brent Grimes in body type and fluidity/efficiency in his bail.

      * His Zone Awareness and assignment-soundness is + generally. They play a bit of C2Z now and again and he rerouted inside, got depth, and generally stayed aware of the potential Corner/Deep Out while still being aware of his primary flat responsibility (however, on one occasion on 2nd and long against OSU, he failed to get under the Deep Out…on another 3rd and short, he got too much depth and lost his flat responsibility to give up a 1st down).

      * He gets in position and appears willing in run support (though I didn’t see many instances of actual tackle attempts because the front 7 of the Huskies is so effective) and his recognition of WR Screens his side is immediate and he’s downhill to beat the block, disrupt or make the play.

      * Good awareness of route combinations from Bunch/Stack when he’s in Off Zone (help and transition).

      THE BAD

      * I saw several losses in these games where he lost contact with the receiver by a fair amount (including plays where the ball didn’t go there such as the 1st TD by OSU where he lost by a fair amount in Man on a Post, but the ball didn’t go there). His pick 6 in the Utah game was a complete loss on a Deep Comeback. It wasn’t even close. There was a bout 3 yards and change of separation. The receiver just muffed the perfectly thrown ball into the air, tipping it right into Murphy’s hands for a trivial pick 6. Grade-wise, this was a play loss (and a pretty bad one) that turned into a pick 6 on the stat sheet. This wasn’t good coverage. This wasn’t good ball skills or good return skills. This was a trivial return for a TD on a boundary loss.

      * I question how great of a Man CB he can be in the NFL. He’s certainly athletic enough and can drop his hips and drive with great short-area-quickness, but he can randomly be a bit slow on the uptake of processing a potential route, anticipating the stem and breaking to maintain stickiness. This appears to be regardless of the route type. I saw him lose (and not by a small amount) on a Deep Comeback, a Post, a Dig, Hitch, Deep Out (a lot of diversity).

      * They are so bail-centric, its hard to project him in something that isn’t a C3Z heavy defense. Even their press doesn’t feature much in the way of jam/reroute. Its almost completely bail. They don’t run much (if any?) C0 or C1M Press, so I have no idea what he looks like on a complete island.

      ++++++++++++++++++

      Overall, solid player, but this doesn’t look like a 1st round CB to me. And certainly not 1st half. I see enough holes, enough lack of diversity in scheme to be difficult to project him across many coverage types, and I don’t see the kind of overwhelming football athleticism and stickiness that I would expect for a standard sized CB that expects to be a 1st rounder.

      Compared to last year, I don’t see a CB who is in the same class as Denzel Ward or Jaire Alexander (or Josh Jackson for that matter who was top of the 2nd).

      1a and 1b

      Quinnen Williams (DT) and Josh Allen (DE)

      2

      Greedy Williams (CB)

      3

      Jonah Williams (LT)

      4

      Clellin Ferrell (RDE)

      5

      Ed Oliver (DT) (could very well ascend to near the top of this heap in year 2 and beyond, but that is difficult to project given his college role and tape).

      6 (waaaaaaaaaaay down there…I suspect I’ll like a lot more guys over Baker)

      Deandre Baker (CB)

      7 (and well below Baker)

      Byron Murphy (CB)

      Please wait…

    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      Hey Nobody, If you think of it could you do newly declared CB Julian Love? I want to see if he’s as good as I think he is or if my Irish eyes are clouding my opinion.

      From the looks of it, he’s a late 2nd or 3rd round CB. I’ll take a look at him when I do our rd 3 prospects.

      Please wait…

    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      @nobody

      how about Brian Burns as a 2nd round option (assuming we were going to switch to a 3-4)

      im curious to see how you rate him versus how other websites. ive seen him literally all over the place from Top 15 (hardly likely) to 3rd round

      I was going to do Burns rd 2 amongst the other guys mentioned by Biggs et al. He’s also a prospect if we trade down a bit in the 1st (assuming he obliterates the combine as he is sure to do).

      First I’m going to do Dexter Lawrence and Devin White to finish up our round 1 possibilities.

      Please wait…

    • dexmonkey

      Participant
      Post count: 1884

      i can see burns going mid first round…no chance he last to rd 3 or rd 2

      if he shows up to the combine above 240 and tests as well as he should i can definitely see him gone mid to late 1st. weigh in is going to be key for him

      Please wait…

    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 3212

      Some of you guys need to use google more. Lol!

      Please wait…

    • Roy

      Participant
      Post count: 3325

      I think the Bucs will choose a QB in the 2nd Round.  I think waiting until the 3rd round you are just picking a backup/emergency starter.   So perhaps Ryan Finley or Will Grier.

      Please wait…

    • Cerious

      Participant
      Post count: 993

      @nobody

      Can’t wait to see the Devin White tape.

      Question on Greedy Williams, are you saying that none of this year’s DBs compares with Ward or Alexander? Or outside of Greedy, none of the DBs compare with Ward, Alexander (and Johnson in the second)?

      Please wait…

    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      @Cerious

      Going to look at he and Dexter Lawrence tonight to finish up the 1st round prospects.

      I’m saying the latter. Only Greedy is comparable (to be honest, I think I like him better than any of those other 3, which I liked a fair bit). I’ll be curious to see his measurables. On tape he looks like a Jalen Ramsey type prospect (though bigger framed and surely, I suspect, not as freakishly athletic) with his size and how well he moves. But like I said above, his discipline (and related confidence in his eyes/body) is  rare. You just don’t see CBS who don’t respond at all to pre-stem bends and feints.

      If he doesn’t turn out to be a great CB in the NFL, something weird has happened.

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    • Cerious

      Participant
      Post count: 993

      I figured that’s what you meant seeing as you have Greedy pretty high on the big board for the 5th pick, just needed clarification. Thanks!

      Let us know what you think about Devin’s potential as an ILB. The translation to 3-4 is all the talk now with Arians/Bowles possibly being a coaching combo for us. Do we have the pieces at LB? I believe Beckwith can play ILB and LVD can be the cover OLB. Can white play in a 3-4?

      As always we appreciate you analysis. Tape don’t lie and you are pretty much a master of tape review.

      Please wait…

    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      DEVIN WHITE VS AUBURN AND GEORGIA 2018

      So quick note on their scheme and what White is doing:

      1) They play primarily Quarters and C1M from their 34. Either White or an OLB is coming on the overwhelming majority of plays to make up that 4th rusher.

      2) Seemingly regardless of coverage, their ILBs are bracketing the tailback and whichever side he cuts to, that backer matches up with him.

      3) The weakside ILB is coming down hard playside for their run fits so they don’t appear to be tasked w/ weakside B or being disciplined vs cutback. The defense is designed for this player to be a play-maker. He should be filling up the stat sheet.

      4) They don’t play a ton of straight C3Z or C2Z (and White is coming a lot), so White isn’t going to have a ton of experience in the feel and awareness for playing underneath coverage in the kinds of Zones that NFL defenses feature.

      Traits that I can see…

      THE GOOD

      * The 0 tech is more often than not doing his job. Part of this has to be on Devin White making correct calls, so his football IQ (at least for this defense), appears to be +. You also don’t coverage breakdowns w/ he and the backer that will be bracketing the deep RB, so that is another line of evidence for an assignment sound, solid IQ football player.

      * Given his assignment in run fits, he does a + good job of being decisive in getting downhill while navigating the inevitable trash that comes w/ a weakside off ball LB attacking playside downhill. He gets caught up now and again, but when he does, he’s typically able to disengage and still be a factor.

      * Very good finisher in the box, at or behind LoS. When he is downhill and zeroes in, he makes the play pretty much always.

      * Man coverage on TB is +.

      THE BAD

      * Despite the fact that WILB is coming as the 4th rusher so much, I didn’t see a lot of terribly productive rushes. He comes with very good thump, but I don’t see anything in the way of dynamic change of direction or explosive downhill speed or great/violent hand use when engaging with an interior OL.

      * See 4 above. I have concerns about his ability to be an underneath Zone defender in C3Z and C2Z because they just don’t do it a ton at LSU. That is alarming given our present issues with MLB and zone coverage. The few times I did see them run zone, he didn’t do a great job getting depth and being threat-aware.

      * I’m not seeing an explosive athlete on tape. I don’t know how he is going to score at the combine, but it wouldn’t surprise me if he didn’t come out of it great and it hurt his stock . Regardless, football (rather than underwear) athleticism seems to be Beckwith-ish.

      * I see some issues with open field pursuit angles on boundary plays away from him…to a degree that its difficult to tell if he’s trying to spill (force ballcarriers to the boundary) or box (turn them back to inside pursuit). He isn’t attacking any particular shoulder with any consistency.

      * His ability to evade uncovered Guards coming 2nd level on him and fulfill his run fit responsibility is extremely inconsistent (sometimes bad).

      ++++++++++++++++++

      Sum-told…honestly, I’m not terribly impressed with this player. I don’t know if these two games weren’t particularly great and everything else was great, but I saw a lot of assignment losses or poor play. I don’t see a dynamically athletic player. His responsibility breadth and cognitive workload in the NFL will almost surely be much, much more, so he is difficult to project.

      He seems much more Kendall Beckwith than Deion Jones. I’m putting him at the bottom of this heap.

      1a and 1b

      Quinnen Williams (DT) and Josh Allen (DE)

      2

      Greedy Williams (CB)

      3

      Jonah Williams (LT)

      4

      Clellin Ferrell (RDE)

      5

      Ed Oliver (DT) (could very well ascend to near the top of this heap in year 2 and beyond, but that is difficult to project given his college role and tape).

      6 (waaaaaaaaaaay down there…I suspect I’ll like a lot more guys over Baker)

      Deandre Baker (CB)

      7 (and well below Baker)

      Byron Murphy (CB)

      8

      Devin White (ILB)

      Please wait…

    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      And the last projected 1st round player I’ll be looking at…

      DEXTER LAWRENCE VS AUBURN 2017 AND BOSTON COLLEGE 2018

      Traits I saw…

      THE GOOD

      * Obviously his short-area quickness (lateral as well) at that size is very impressive.

      * Played 1, 2, and 3 tech so proficient in multiple techs.

      * Extremely aware and capable of batting down passes on the Stunt game (where he is the man who is going outside to try to free an inside rusher).

      * When he wants to, his pocket push (and disengage/spin out of engagement to make a play) against singles is very impressive.

      * Very good finisher in the backfield. When a play is there to be made, he typically makes it.

      + Very good against Zone runs so he’s reading quickly and getting across the face of the guy trying to block him (wrecking the play if he’s playside).

      THE BAD

      * Not nearly as violent or physical as I would like to see.

      * Motor isn’t consistent (which is typical with players of this size). When he wants to, his pocket push against singles is great…but there are more than a few plays there against singles where he gets nothing.

      * Hand usage isn’t great (neither particularly violent nor particularly technically sound).

      * I don’t see any pass rush suite.

      * When he’s playing 3 tech, his first step isn’t something that is going to turn him into a B gap wrecker in the pros.

      * His play against double teams in Man runs is just so so. He doesn’t anchor the point of attack nearly as consistently as you would think for a man this size. Although pad level and knee bend are good, his overall leverage and play strength in these situations is up-and-down (which, again, could be fatigue/conditioning issues; 350 lb player).

      ++++++++++++++++

      Overall, he’s a bit of a tweener. This isn’t Vita Vea by any stretch of the imagination. I see a solid player who doesn’t play like a man of his size (either in terms of mobility or play strength). Very athletic, good finisher, a bit raw. I love the ability to get up and earn PDs as a D lineman. That is one of the most underrated components of overall defense I think. Its a rare skill that is mostly about feel, athleticism, and awareness (you can try to coach it, but…good luck).

      Please wait…

    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      So my final 1st round priority looks like this:

      TOP TIER

      1a and 1b – Quinnen Williams (DT) and Josh Allen (DE)

      2 – Greedy Williams (CB)

      3 – Jonah Williams (LT) (if Zone run offense)

      4 – Clellin Ferrell (RDE)

      5 – Ed Oliver (DT) (could very well ascend to near the top of this heap in year 2 and beyond, but that is difficult to project given his college role and tape).

      NEXT TIER

      6 – Deandre Baker (CB)

      7 – Dexter Lawrence (DT)

      8 – Byron Murphy (CB)

      9 – Devin White (ILB)

      +++++++++++++

      Those top 4 guys are in a class of their own. That is, if Jonah Williams is playing in a Zone heavy offense. If he’s playing in an offense that features a lot of Man and Gap runs, then knock him down a peg with Ferrell and Oliver.

      Those top 6 guys are all extremely good football players and their bust potential is remote; high floors, high ceilings.

      Greedy Williams is the standard-bearer of this CB class. Baker and Murphy look to be solid players, but it seems to me that you have Greedy in a tier of his own and then the next group.

      Please wait…

    • Ft Myers Buc Fan

      Participant
      Post count: 391

      Very nicely done. Thanks Nobody for taking the time to do and post this.  You really reinforced with what I thought and perhaps more hoped that at 5, we really can’t lose picking a high floor and high ceiling player at our biggest areas of weakness that can really help us

       

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    • Anonymous

      Inactive
      Post count: 6698

      I’m pretty sold on Greedy. I worry about SEC players on defense because of the talent around them but he seems be special. I’m all in…

      He wont last till 5 tho

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    • GoldsonAges

      Participant
      Post count: 2945

      I can’t wait to see Greedy’s combine numbers. If he nails the combine I’m all for gettin Greedy

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      I’m pretty sold on Greedy. I worry about SEC players on defense because of the talent around them but he seems be special. I’m all in…

      He wont last till 5 tho

      He may very well. There are at least 3 premium DL players, an OT, and something weird seems to routinely happen (trade up for a QB or a WR pick?).

      Regardless, I think there is a very solid chance we’ll end up with one of Quinnen Williams, Josh Allen, or Greedy.

      I would be very happy to come away with any of those 3.

      But I think I agree with you two. Greedy feels like the most polished player in this draft with the most likelihood to have the biggest impact year 1.

      Please wait…

    • Pepsi

      Participant
      Post count: 2047

      I don’t like the idea of corner in top 5 unless there super elite.

      noticed greedy vs Georgia was newish in YouTube and just finished that. I may not like corner at 5 but I can’t complain if this kids a Buc. This is some good ass coverage

      https://youtu.be/GBddT9GL2XI

       

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    • GoldsonAges

      Participant
      Post count: 2945

      Generally I would agree with you Pepsi. Only four CB’s have been drafted top 5 in the last 20 years. Charles Woodson, Patrick Peterson, Quentin Jammer, and Denzel Ward. That’s some rarified air right there.

      Greedy needs to have a great combine if he’s going top 5. The combine is huge for corners. If they’re not supremely athletic they will drop like a rock.

      Please wait…

    • wolfet

      Participant
      Post count: 154

      @nobody thanks for this, truly impressive.  It is amazing that the Bucs have people doing this for every game a player has in college and we still whiff on draft picks.

      Please wait…

    • mgchat76

      Participant
      Post count: 374

      Thanks for the breakdowns, it’s been a very interesting read so far.  I’d honestly be ecstatic with any of the Williams’ or Josh Allen.  Could you look at Bosa, too.  I know everyone expects him to be out of reach, but I remember Leonard Williams being a lock #1 pick this time of year.  Coming off of an injury and surgery, then shutting it down early and ditching his teammates?  Already sounds like some red flags.  I’d like to see how far ahead of Williams/Allen that you think he is, if at all.

      Please wait…

    • dexmonkey

      Participant
      Post count: 1884

      Generally I would agree with you Pepsi. Only four CB’s have been drafted top 5 in the last 20 years. Charles Woodson, Patrick Peterson, Quentin Jammer, and Denzel Ward. That’s some rarified air right there.

      Greedy needs to have a great combine if he’s going top 5. The combine is huge for corners. If they’re not supremely athletic they will drop like a rock.

      uhhh Jalen Ramsey?

      Please wait…

    • Cerious

      Participant
      Post count: 993

      Did Rashan Gary decide to go back to school? Or did we miss evaluating him here?

      Please wait…

    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 5866

      Did Rashan Gary decide to go back to school? Or did we miss evaluating him here?

      I don’t think he should be in consideration for Top 5, but others may disagree.

      Please wait…

    • Cerious

      Participant
      Post count: 993

      I noticed he was pretty high on a lot of draft boards, in the top 10 for most anyway. Right up there with prospects like Baker, Lawrence, etc. McShay has him at #5 which made me ask.

      Just wondering, no big deal.

      Please wait…

    • Pennywise

      Participant
      Post count: 9745

      He declared,

      I have them

      Oliver

      Simmons

      Gary

      Burns

      My top 4 dl

      Please wait…

    • Cerious

      Participant
      Post count: 993

      You have Burns really high Penny. Is your DL list top four specifically for the Bucs?

      I have Greedy or Oliver falling into our laps:

      1. Arizona: Bosa

      2. 49ers: Allen

      3. Raiders: Q. Williams

      4. Jets: J. Williams

      Provided Josh Allen continues to rise as the #2 DE in the draft. Raiders could also look to draft edge DL instead of interior, but I think they go DL either way and Gary could fit there if Allen is gone. Jets have to keep Darnold upright IMO.

      That would leave Oliver and Greedy to fall to us. To be honest any of those top 4 would also be great fits for the Bucs. We are in good position to come away with an immediate starter.

      Please wait…

    • Pennywise

      Participant
      Post count: 9745

      No, my top 4,take Oliver, Simmons and gary at 5,burns I have 15 area.

      Oliver dl

      Amani cb

      Jenkins ol

      Rypien qb

      Singletary rb

      Larry Allen jr ol

      My 6 picks as of today

      Please wait…

    • Cerious

      Participant
      Post count: 993

      Larry Allen Jr. that’s some pedigree right there. He’d be a good player if he’s only ‘half’ as good as his father.

      I hear Warren’s son had a ‘monster’ year in high school last year. We might see baby Sapp playing in the NFL in a few years

      Please wait…

    • Pennywise

      Participant
      Post count: 9745

      Build the trenches, eagles have faced arron Donald, jj watt and k mack over this 4 game win streak,those 3 combined have

      0 sacks

      3 qb hits

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    • JC5100

      Participant
      Post count: 2978

      Take a look at Deionte Thompson. I haven’t looked at him yet but he has some buzz.

      Please wait…

    • WayToGoBucs!

      Participant
      Post count: 172

      It feels so dirty to be discussing drafting yet another defensive tackle in the Top 10 but my god if Oliver or Q. Williams fall in our laps somehow we better be ready to POUNCE. Oh wait, I should probably try to use a pirate reference instead of pounce. Ambush? Attack?

      Please wait…

    • dexmonkey

      Participant
      Post count: 1884

      Take a look at Deionte Thompson. I haven’t looked at him yet but he has some buzz.

      hes got negative buzz. started the season on fire and didnt play all that well down the stretch. he probably wont but he should go back to school

      Please wait…

    • Cerious

      Participant
      Post count: 993

      It feels so dirty to be discussing drafting yet another defensive tackle in the Top 10 but my god if Oliver or Q. Williams fall in our laps somehow we better be ready to POUNCE. Oh wait, I should probably try to use a pirate reference instead of pounce. Ambush? Attack?

      Pillage or plunder possibly?

       

      Please wait…

      • WayToGoBucs!

        Participant
        Post count: 172

        Well played. Indeed. Well played.

        Please wait…

      • GenoaBucs

        Participant
        Post count: 148

        @Nobody

        What about Greg Little (OT from Ole Miss)? He was a 5 star prospect but was an underachiever in college. Mocks has him in mid first round, so maybe could be an option if we’d trade down.

        Please wait…

    • GottaJaboo

      Blocked
      Post count: 5942

      Haven’t we heard enough about Oliver’s lack of love for the game already, where it’s probably best that we don’t take him. Before anyone does some kind of Sapp comparison, Sapp may have not like some people and may have come across as someone that has a piss poor attitude once in a while, but, he fucking loved football. I just don’t get that sense from Oliver. If I was GM, immediately behind ability, I would be evaluating how passionate a player they are. Show me someone that doesn’t love football while their playing and I will show you someone that doesn’t play very long.

      Please wait…

    • Cerious

      Participant
      Post count: 993

      Links?

      Please wait…

    • Cerious

      Participant
      Post count: 993

      I mean where is all this talk about his love for football coming from? Don’t just spout rumors, back it up with some substance. I questioned you on this very subject before and you did not answer. If you’re questioning his love for football because he missed a few games, then shouldn’t you also question Bosa’s love?

      C’mon man don’t push the agenda against this kid.

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    • Detrimental

      Participant
      Post count: 1538

      LSU is DBU right now. Not worried about Greedy not being good at the next level. Those DBs come in the league ready to ball from day 1. Same ones complaining about missing out on Jackson in the second round last year, downplaying Greedy’s ability and in terms of overall shear talent…shits not even close

       

      Then there’s that kid TreDavious White from BUF who has been ballin. Mo Claiborne comparisons are going be thrown around this time of the year but its just hogwash. Get Greedy! Need a CB who can take the ball away from the other team.

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    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      I am hoping for a lineman in the first, either side of the ball.
      They have invested a lot of draft picks lately in the secondary, I am not ready to write those guys off just yet.
      And I wouldn’t say LB is a huge need.

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    • Diehard Astheycome

      Participant
      Post count: 449

      Not that I put all my stock into one’s opinion. However I believe it was PFF graded Q.Williams at a 95.8 they said the highest grade ever for interior lineman.Yet was kind of a one year wonder. This is why I can’t stomach Licht.Too many holes after five years. We will NEVER win until we get SUPER NASTY and physical upfront on the Oline!! Never. Great Oline controls every aspect of the game- Gives a running game, QB time, play action, time of possession ( keeps opp offense off the field and Def fresh, Red Zone efficiency, you name it.We get in playoffs, and are at CHICAGO, GB,NY and hoping we can pass in 5 degree weather coming from Florida? NEVER.This guy has us at the mercy of JPP for almost 15 mil.Williams is a solid LT who allowed zero sacks in SEC.However not as purely dominant as you’d like, but def solid.Licht ruining of 2nd n 3rd rd picks is KILLING us.Last year early 2nd rd had some maulers at guard – he could have moved up 2-3 spots , and got Smith or Hernandez instead our first 2 2nds showed us nothing!! I’d give up Jones, Stewart, and Cappa as a 3rd for one Braden Smith or Willie Hernandez.Imagine if we then grabbed Williams at tackle this year.Youd have 3 young studs in Marpet, Williams, B. Smith all 3 could move around , with D.Smith (franchise)and Jensen ( be top 10 line) then next year take best available lineman regardless of position due to flexibility of other 3 young guys-solidify it with 4 young studs!!Dump D.Smith salary .WR are loaded in this draft and are easy to find. We have more $$ invested in passing game than any team in NFL. At a position that is what RB was 3 yrs ago.( How else are games in 30’-40’s)Now I just explained how good are Line could have been just like that.Plus OJ Howard is supposed to be equally great at blocking and receiving- so we’d have him on the edge as well.Red zone efficiency would greatly improve, time of poss,give us a running game, play action works better,keep Def fresh…list goes on.Just need a competent GM.Sorry so long!!!

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    • jerseybucsfan

      Participant
      Post count: 551

      Bump

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      @60 min and @tampaspicer

      JAYLON FERGUSON (EDGE) VS MISS STATE AND LSU 2018

      Traits I see…

      THE GOOD

      * Really great frame/length.

      * + (but not devastating) get-off and good snap anticipation.

      * Best-in-class hand usage. Absolutely terrific in both the run game and pass game. He has a Push-Pull that he uses in the run game to shed and two varieties in pass rush (one is kind of a pseudo-Hump move after he gets his man upfield and then comes back inside). Some of the most mature use of hands I’ve ever seen at the college football level. His Speed > Power is helped immensely by his great hand-usage.

      * + football IQ and assignment soundness.

      * Good finisher (ridiculous length/hands and strength + the ability to drop his hips and change direction)

      * Very good PoA discipline and play strength on both Man runs at him and ZRO.

      * + motor.

      THE BAD

      * Only + athlete north/south, certainly not devastating.

      * Due to lack of explosiveness/flexion, not a 7/9 tech edge-bender. He isn’t going to kill an OT off the snap, bend the edge, and force a QB pocket escape or the play is over.

      * So hands-dependent that if he runs into OTs in the NFL with length + great punch + footwork + good base, he’s going to have some issues rushing the passer (those are few and far between though…total package guys).

      ++++++++++

      I just wrote the following in DH’s thread:

      EXTREEEEEEMELY similar player to Ferrell. Eerily so. Same strengths, same weaknesses. Neither are edge benders or devastating get-off guys but both have + get off and great anticipation. Ferrell’s PoA leverage and play strength is marginally better, but Ferguson’s hand usage and push-pull shed move in both the run game and in pass rush is utterly top notch. Check him out. I bin these guys in the same category. May be able to get Ferguson later due to lack of Clemson exposure.

      REGROUPING GUYS JUST A LITTLE (GOING TO BE A SURPRISE HERE I THINK)

      So my final 1st round priority looks like this:

      TOP TIER

      1 – Josh Allen (Edge)

      2 – Quinnen Williams (DT)

      3 – Greedy Williams (CB)

      4 – Jaylon Ferguson (Edge)

      5 – Clellin Ferrell (Edge)

      6 – Ed Oliver (DT)

      7 – Jonah Williams (LT) (assuming a Zone run offense…if not, he goes down to the next tier)

      2ND TIER

      8 – Dexter Lawrence (DT)

      9 – Deandre Baker (CB)

      10 – Byron Murphy (CB)

      11 – Devin White (ILB)

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    • jbear

      Participant
      Post count: 3097

      At this point, I like the idea of trying to trade down and taking the best OT available. There are several good ones projected to go high in the draft. I wonder if Donovan Smith would do better at RT. Also we have got to find a starting caliber RG somewhere.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      At this point, I like the idea of trying to trade down and taking the best OT available. There are several good ones projected to go high in the draft. I wonder if Donovan Smith would do better at RT. Also we have got to find a starting caliber RG somewhere.

      1) This draft has multiple good Guards. Lindstrom/Deiter round 2.

      2) I reeeeeeeally don’t like the idea of spending our 1st round pick on OT in this draft with the embarrassment of riches at DL I this draft.

       

      I think my ideal situation would be:

      1) Trade down a few picks and acquire an extra 2nd:

      2) Take whichever of the top 6 guys I have above.

      3) Take CB Oruwariye and OG Lindstrom/Deiter I’m round 2.

      4) Take LB Pratt round 3.

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    • Graham

      Participant
      Post count: 1768

      @Nobody

      Thank you for taking the time to do these.  I know you enjoy it, but it’s still a lot of work.  We appreciate it.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      No worries.

      I need to look at DL Gary Given with all the run he’s getting.

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    • Roy

      Participant
      Post count: 3325

      At this point, I like the idea of trying to trade down and taking the best OT available. There are several good ones projected to go high in the draft. I wonder if Donovan Smith would do better at RT. Also we have got to find a starting caliber RG somewhere.

      1) This draft has multiple good Guards. Lindstrom/Deiter round 2.

      2) I reeeeeeeally don’t like the idea of spending our 1st round pick on OT in this draft with the embarrassment of riches at DL I this draft.

      I think my ideal situation would be:

      1) Trade down a few picks and acquire an extra 2nd:

      2) Take whichever of the top 6 guys I have above.

      3) Take CB Oruwariye and OG Lindstrom/Deiter I’m round 2.

      4) Take LB Pratt round 3.

      To get an extra 2nd we would have to trade down to Denver at 10 minimum.  To trade down to Jax at 7 would get us an extra 3rd.

      Thats just an interpretation of the DraftTek Trade Value Chart.  5 is 1700 points.  10 is 1300 points.  Denver’s 2nd round pick is 490 points.  So doing the math we would have to throw them back our 4 worth 100 points.   Its flexible obviously, but I don’t think the trade chart is going to be thrown out the window this year by any means.  Jax #7 is 1500 points, and their #3 is 245 points.  So that isn’t too far off.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      Good post Roy.

      I could see Denver and our 5th for 10 and their 2nd (moving up you pay a premium, especially into the top 5).

      At 10, we should still be able in very good shape. There are going to be reaches for need and other moves for players high on boards; WR, OT, White, a QB.

      I could easily see a scenario where two, possibly three, of the guys I mentioned in my top tier (including Gary who I have yet to look at) are available at 10.

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    • 60 min

      Blocked
      Post count: 63

      Playing hardball has a winner and a loser. Winning sounds better.

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    • Roy

      Participant
      Post count: 3325

      Good post Roy.

      I could see Denver and our 5th for 10 and their 2nd (moving up you pay a premium, especially into the top 5).

      At 10, we should still be able in very good shape. There are going to be reaches for need and other moves for players high on boards; WR, OT, White, a QB.

      I could easily see a scenario where two, possibly three, of the guys I mentioned in my top tier (including Gary who I have yet to look at) are available at 10.

      I would be OK trading down to 10 or so, but you are putting yourself behind a couple teams in the Lions and the Bills who have some similarities in team needs, so they could snatch up a couple of the guys on the Bucs draftboard.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      RASHAN GARY VS NOTRE DAME AND OHIO STATE 2018

      I’ll note again with my eval of Devin Bush:

      This is a pressure defense w/ a lot of 2nd level players threatening gaps at the LoS at the snap, a fair amount of Slant and Scrape and Green Dog blitzing by LBs (w/ 2 Man Under) or straight blitzing.

      Further, this is not a 5 tech player in the pros. If he is expected to do what JJ Watt is doing, forget about it. I expect him to be a 3 tech DT.

      Traits I saw…

      THE GOOD

      * + get-off…but I was expecting overwhelming type of get-off. I’m not taking about plays where he is reading a ZRO key and not gap-shooting. I’m talking about plays where he doesn’t have a key that will stall him; so straight edge-setting or pass rush snaps. Good get-off, but not devastating. Short area quickness (even east or west from standstill, but not violent change-of-direction) seems to generally be + (but not devastating).

      * Violent, strong hands. Shocks single teams in the run game and re-establishes the LoS. He can certainly edge-set at the next level if forced to play 5 tech in specific situations.

      * Disciplined against the ZRO. Doesn’t just chase the RB. He reads (and typically correctly) and makes the appropriate play.

      * Speed to Power rush game should do some work in the pros (but see below regarding hands).

      * Multi-tech player. He’s got experience playing 3, 5, 7 and some shade techs (I didn’t see any even techs).

      * If he gets his hands on you, you’re going down. He’s the kind of guy that can be a bit out of position, but a RB is going to have trouble breaking out of an arm tackle.

      THE BAD

      * His lateral mobility isn’t great (which is one of the primary reasons he needs to be a B gap penetrating 3 tech in the pros). You see it when he is running games and scraping off of the adjacent DL, you see it in space, and you see it when he is attempting to run the C gap arc on a vertical setting OT. This is an issue a lot of DL’s have and it is one of the primary issues for finishing plays that are there to be made. He’s not a finisher at the college level and I don’t know about that suddenly changing in the pros.

      Pretty linear player that mostly wins in straight lines. The B gap arc is doable for him (hence 3 tech in the pros)…but I don’t have enough to go on when he’s dealing with a good OG who 45 sets well. Can he outright win the B off the snap or get even with a good OG in the pros and use his hands to win that B gap arc and force the QB off the spot…or will he be rounded out of the play routinely? I don’t know.

      * His snap anticipation is extremely inconsistent. I’m seeing a lot of plays where he is the last guy moving. This can completely offset his + get-off.

      * While his hands are violent and sound in the run game, they don’t consistently do the kind of work that needs to be done in pass rush. On a similar note…I’m not sure about his length. He seems pretty average there.

      * I don’t see a mature suite of technical pass rush skills here. I see a lot of (what looks like) speed to power attempts that end up with Gary body to body w/ an OT and the OT either anchoring or re-anchoring and the pass rush stalling out. There was one Stutter and Go that did some work and a Swipe and outside Rip that helped him soften the C gap arc so he could move the QB off the spot. But nothing reliable and way too many unproductive pass rush snaps.

      * Inconsistent motor. I see a lot of throttling back on plays away from him rather than chasing down the LoS or establishing an angle of retreat and pursuing the ball.

      * I see some awareness issues that look like Vita earlier in the year. On occasion, I see some trouble finding the football as he’s squeezing and shedding (and the ball carrier runs by him without a play made on it). I saw the same thing on a (pretty obvious) Screen that went over top of him.

      ++++++++++++++++++

      I was expecting an absolutely explosive get-off and consistent snap anticipation. I didn’t see either of these (and the inconsistent snap anticipation was really bothersome).

      I see some general issues with this player, some technical issues, and some difficulty projecting him to a position that he didn’t see a ton of action at in college (3 tech).

      I don’t like him as much as I like Gerald Willis from Miami (who I reviewed for the 2nd round). I’m putting him near the bottom of this list. Pretty disappointed to be honest. I was hoping for another premium DL player at the top of this list to all but ensure we got one even if we trade back to 10-ish.

      TOP TIER

      1 – Josh Allen (Edge)

      2 – Quinnen Williams (DT)

      3 – Greedy Williams (CB)

      4 – Jaylon Ferguson (Edge)

      5 – Clellin Ferrell (Edge)

      6 – Ed Oliver (DT)

      7 – Jonah Williams (LT) (assuming a Zone run offense…if not, he goes down to the next tier)

      2ND TIER

      8 – Dexter Lawrence (DT)

      9 – Deandre Baker (CB)

      10 – Byron Murphy (CB)

      11 – Rashan Gary (DL)

      12 – Devin White (ILB)

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    • 60 min

      Blocked
      Post count: 63

      Well Nobody, it seems someone slapped Cody Ford on the wall and now he’s a first rounder.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      Just one thing right quick. Though I’ve put Jaylon Ferguson well up there, that doesn’t mean he should be drafted 1st round. So a few thoughts:

      1) It appears that most big boards have him 2-3.

      2) My guess is his body and wingspan will come in great at the comebine, but he won’t raise his draft stock with athletic performance at the combine.

      3) When it comes to DE, most times their ceiling is untapped because they come into the league without a great pass rush suite and great hand use. (a) His hand use is unbelievably mature and (b) his pass rush suite is quite good.

      Consequently, Ferguson is a player with an extremely high floor (my guess is he comes into the league and produces immediately) but he isn’t the sexy, high ceiling athletic freak with untapped potential that GMs love early in the draft.

      So drafting him early would be terrible value (unless something dramatically changes with his stock).

      If we pick up an extra 2nd with a minor move-down (for our 1st and 4th), he would be an awesome pick. Something like:

      1- Williams (CB)
      2 – Lindstrom (OG)
      2 – Ferguson (Edge)
      3 – Pratt (LB)

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      Well Nobody, it seems someone slapped Cody Ford on the wall and now he’s a first rounder.

      Haven’t looked at him.

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    • 60 min

      Blocked
      Post count: 63

      Just one thing right quick. Though I’ve put Jaylon Ferguson well up there, that doesn’t mean he should be drafted 1st round. So a few thoughts:

      1) It appears that most big boards have him 2-3.

      2) My guess is his body and wingspan will come in great at the comebine, but he won’t raise his draft stock with athletic performance at the combine.

      3) When it comes to DE, most times their ceiling is untapped because they come into the league without a great pass rush suite and great hand use. (a) His hand use is unbelievably mature and (b) his pass rush suite is quite good.

      Consequently, Ferguson is a player with an extremely high floor (my guess is he comes into the league and produces immediately) but he isn’t the sexy, high ceiling athletic freak with untapped potential that GMs love early in the draft.

      So drafting him early would be terrible value (unless something dramatically changes with his stock).

      If we pick up an extra 2nd with a minor move-down (for our 1st and 4th), he would be an awesome pick. Something like:

      1- Williams (CB)

      2 – Lindstrom (OG)

      2 – Ferguson (Edge)

      3 – Pratt (LB)

      We will see how the player rankings get manipulated in the next couple of months.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      I’m going to do a few more prospects for this thread in the outcome that we trade down to 12-15 for extra picks. 2 OTs and 2 Edge:

      Montez Sweat (Edge)
      Jachai Polite (Edge)
      Greg Little (OT)
      Cody Ford (OT)

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      MONTEZ SWEAT (EDGE) VS K STATE (VS RISNER) AND BAMA (A BIT OF WILLIAMS) 2018

      Traits I see…

      THE GOOD

      * Really great frame/length.

      * Devastating get-off when hand is in the dirt but average to below snap anticipation.

      * Extremely violent and refined hand usage, especially in the run game (+ in pass rush). He’s similar to Ferguson (though not as refined/sound) in that he has a Push-Pull that he uses in the run game to successfully shed regularly, he’s got a a Club > Rip in pass rush and his physicality and + hand use augments his Speed > Power.

      * Solid football IQ and assignment soundness.

      * Solid finisher in tight quarters due to his length and his Wrap and Roll is very good.

      * Solid PoA discipline and play strength when he’s able to use his hands, extend, flex hips and anchor.

      * Extremely good motor when he’s still in the play vicinity.

      THE BAD

      * Linear athlete (but extremely explosive that way). Limited east west due to lack of hip and ankle mobility. This causes problems two ways:

      (EDGE BEND/REDIRECT) while he can easily get hip to hip with a tackle due to his N/S explosiveness, he needs a soft edge (which he can’t always get with his hands) because he can’t dip and bend it…and his change of direction inside or spin counter in pass rush is going to be limited

      and

      (FINISH) dropping his hips and changing direction in space to finish behind the LoS can be an issue.

      * Throttles it back sometimes if the play is away from him rather than getting an angle and pursuing across a 20 yard gap.

      * When he gets body to body w/ a player or caught in the wash, he gets high and gets stuck (because he can’t use those hands and length to extract). A lot of wash plays he just becomes a body rather than a force.

      * Really light (241) and when he comes off the edge standing up (OLB), he tends to pop up and mitigate his explosiveness.

      * Following from above, I don’t see him being a great space player so I don’t think he can be a great coverage player at the next level. I don’t see OLB in his future.

      ++++++++++

      So there are some issues that are all integrated here. I feel like he has to be a hand-in-the-dirt end, but he’s really light and when he can’t use his advantages (hand and length) and its a wash scenario (like maybe a Gap play where he’s dealing with a puller or someone kicking-out + a few players fighting for the adjacent B gap), he can struggle to be effective. But this rarely happens due to his N/S explosiveness, violent and sound hands.

      I like this player…but a few things concern me.

      TOP TIER

      1 – Josh Allen (Edge)

      2 – Quinnen Williams (DT)

      3 – Greedy Williams (CB)

      4 – Jaylon Ferguson (Edge)

      5 – Clellin Ferrell (Edge)

      6 – Ed Oliver (DT)

      7 – Jonah Williams (LT) (assuming a Zone run offense…if not, he goes down to the next tier)

      2ND TIER

      8 – Montez Sweat (Edge)

      9 – Dexter Lawrence (DT)

      10 – Deandre Baker (CB)

      11 – Byron Murphy (CB)

      12 – Rashan Gary (DL)

      13 – Devin White (ILB)

      Please wait…

    • Detrimental

      Participant
      Post count: 1538

      Sweat is a r2 talent IMO

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      Sweat is a r2 talent IMO

      Alright. Could you unpack that a bit? What do you think separates him from Josh Allen (I agree there is separation, as I wrote above, but its very specific separation and I’m not sure its a full round difference of separation)?

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    • Jr.3

      Participant
      Post count: 424

      None of the top OL blow me away this draft. There is not one LT I would waste pick 5 on.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      JACHAI POLITE (EDGE) VS LSU AND KENTUCKY 2018

      Traits I saw…

      THE GOOD

      * Body control while putting on multiple moves or hand-fighting and maintaining speed up the arc is best in class. Josh Allen and Brian Burns don’t touch this.

      * Get-off is + (he does this false step quirk before he bursts that costs him) but his immediate post-get-off acceleration is again, best-in-class. Interestingly, this (accidental) abrupt change of speed can actually work in his favor as you can see OTs not set quite right initially, being unable to correctly gauge Polite’s “go” (sort of like a Change-up in baseball). I would say that, due to the get-off hiccup and this post-get-off acceleration I wout put Allen, Burns, and Polite in the same class.

      * Overall mobility skills are best in class. No other edge rusher has this sort of north-south acceleration + body control + hip/ankle flexion + stop and start + change of direction explosiveness.

      * Plays violently, with utter reckless abandon, even (and perhaps especially) when taking on bigger players (TE at PoA or pulling Guards) and is really good at being slippery when handling move blockers (Zone, Pulls, Kick-outs) and causes outright misses or oblique contact while still being able to make the play.

      * Pass rush suite is extremely versatile coupled with an overwhelming shoulder-dip or rip, edge-bending speed rush. Countermoves back to the inside (including Spin and Stutter and Go) are extreme in their quickness and fluidity. Ridiculous suddenness back to the inside off a stutter and the ability to be slippery and avoid the worst of the contact if the OT doesn’t overset outside.

      * Sideline to sideline pursuit speed (backside of plays or play-side when run is to D gap his side) and spatial perception (angles) when closing down the edge is fantastic.

      * Not long, but violent and physical and relatively sound when tackling (either in space or short-area). This coupled with his fantastic body control makes him a + finisher. Has the body control, technique, awareness, and violence to end the plays he’s supposed to and plenty he’s not.

      * Relentless motor.

      THE BAD

      * Size and wingspan isn’t what you want for an End. He is going to be a stand-up player at the next level.

      * When he doesn’t win with his crazy athleticism/mobility and edge protectors get their hands on him with a good base, his rush is stopped cold (which will happen more at the next level).

      * No Speed to Power rush (functional strength, but it doesn’t translate to the rush game).

      * Given he is invariably going to be playing Spur LB in the NFL, he is going to have to prove he can cover Flat and single RBs (with those movement skills and his general awareness in space, he easily predicts and handles pullers/kick-outs, I see no reason to believe he can’t be a solid or + coverage player).

      * Though he works and is violent and is generally good at taking on players with the correct shoulder to handle his run responsibilities, he has limited ability to anchor the PoA on plays at him.

      +++++++++++++++++++

      Holy ceiling kids. Maybe the highest ceiling in the draft. My guess is he tests extremely well in Broad Jump, 20 Shuttle, 3 Cone, and 10 Yard Split. And those measurables typically translate on the football field for short-area move players. Watching him is like watching a Mack or Miller with less functional play strength and without the ability to Speed > Power rush.

      If he removes that technical glitch (a small hitch) in his get-off…holy cow. My guess is he can cover, but we just haven’t seen it.

      TOP TIER

      1 – Josh Allen (Edge)

      2 – Jachai Polite (Edge)

      3 – Quinnen Williams (DT)

      4 – Greedy Williams (CB)

      5 – Jaylon Ferguson (Edge)

      6 – Clellin Ferrell (Edge)

      7 – Ed Oliver (DT)

      8 – Jonah Williams (LT) (assuming a Zone run offense…if not, he goes down to the next tier)

      2ND TIER

      9 – Montez Sweat (Edge)

      10 – Dexter Lawrence (DT)

      11 – Deandre Baker (CB)

      12 – Byron Murphy (CB)

      13 – Rashan Gary (DL)

      14 – Devin White (ILB)

      Please wait…

    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      None of the top OL blow me away this draft. There is not one LT I would waste pick 5 on.

      Agreed. Waaaay too many good DL in this draft to not come away with one in the 1st round. To go OL instead of DL in the 1st? That would be an abomination of Need over BPA (and we’d get punished for it…and rightly so).

      Please wait…

    • Roy

      Participant
      Post count: 3325

      For the first round pick I think character has to be a big factor.  You don’t need a choirboy, but you need a leader type if you are taking a top 10 player.   That basically means someone who is going to be consistent on the field, and committed to winning not only on game day but in the meeting room, the weight room, the practice field and last but not least off the field.  Because they will set the tone whether that is what they really want to do or not.

      What I would like to know is which of these candidates really has an awesome attitude to go with the physical talent.  I don’t mean just a rah rah guy, but someone who is going to have the professionalism which will transition them to become a leader at the NFL level.

      Please wait…

    • nybuccguy

      Participant
      Post count: 623

      Im curious to see what you think about Little. I think hes by far the best LT in the draft

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    • mgchat76

      Participant
      Post count: 374

      I really like Polite in a trade down situation such as #10 with Denver.  I think in Bowles defense, he could be a monster with his natural talents.  I’d even be ok with him at #5, tbh.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      Im curious to see what you think about Little. I think hes by far the best LT in the draft

      I’m curious as well and he may be the best Tackle. I like Williams in a Zone run offense and he’s a great edge protector. But he isn’t the best OT I’ve ever seen (by a fair bit). Dillard is a solid player but I’ve only reviewed his Senior Bowl play so far. Thus far, I see a lot of DSmith in him (a lot of good play, but too many negative plays).

      For the first round pick I think character has to be a big factor. You don’t need a choirboy, but you need a leader type if you are taking a top 10 player. That basically means someone who is going to be consistent on the field, and committed to winning not only on game day but in the meeting room, the weight room, the practice field and last but not least off the field. Because they will set the tone whether that is what they really want to do or not.

      What I would like to know is which of these candidates really has an awesome attitude to go with the physical talent. I don’t mean just a rah rah guy, but someone who is going to have the professionalism which will transition them to become a leader at the NFL level.

      I don’t know much about these guys off the field at this point. Personally, when it comes to intangibles I want:

      a) A guy who LOVES football

      b) A guy who is freakishly competitive

      c) A guy who his teammates loves

      Please wait…

    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      I really like Polite in a trade down situation such as #10 with Denver. I think in Bowles defense, he could be a monster with his natural talents. I’d even be ok with him at #5, tbh.

      There are three players in this draft who have the rarest (and most devastating as they need ZERO help to end a play) of qualities for a defensive player:

      Win the edge with ridiculous get-off/acceleartion and Dip/Bend to tighten that arc and get to the QB immediately. This is the quality that makes Mack and Von Miller utterly deadly.

      Three players.

      Allen, Polite, and Burns

      And Polite is a better finisher than Allen and Burns as his ability to drop his hips and change directions explosively is tremendous (while Allen is just ok and Burns is just +). And he’s relentless and one of those guys who has the uncanny ability to ensure a tackle while swatting the football (loads of Forced Fumbles).

      Allen has shown to be a very good cover player and a better PoA player (but not by a ton). If Polite can cover…he may be the best defensive player in this draft.

      It wouldn’t surprise me to see a scenario where Polite and Ferguson become the best DL out of this draft.

      If we traded down to 10, accrued a 2nd round pick (giving up our 5th) and got Polite? I wouldn’t be disappointed. In a Bowles 24 Nickel defense w/ Vea and JPP both playing 3 techs and Polite and Nassib coming off the edges? Yeah.

      (Edge) Polite
      (OG) Deiter/Lindstrom
      (CB) Oruwariye
      (ILB) Pratt

      That would be alright.

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    • GoldsonAges

      Participant
      Post count: 2945

      Good stuff @nobody

      I usually don’t read scouting reports written by others but you’re the first person I actually trust for accuracy.

      Keep ’em coming.

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    • Cerious

      Participant
      Post count: 993

      With Polite functional playing strength can be developed! His potential get off is devastating though, you can’t teach explosion, speed and relentless pursuit of the football. Those are gifted traits. I’m liking the sound of having our own version of Miller or Mack on the roster, tempered enthusiasm though, tempered.

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    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      Good stuff @nobody

      I usually don’t read scouting reports written by others but you’re the first person I actually trust for accuracy.

      Keep ’em coming.

      Agree

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    • Handiman1031

      Participant
      Post count: 34

      Nobody, I’m curious what you think of Khalen Saunders after the week he had against some of the top Offensive Lineman at the Senior Bowl?

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    • ISLAND BUCS

      Participant
      Post count: 2925

      Nobody:

      I hope you get a chance to look at Cody Ford.

      Lindstrom and Deiter seem to be good, but because of his size and light feet,

      Ford may turn out be the best of all to fill the Bucs’  hole at guard.

       

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      No problem fellas.

      I’ve briefly looked at Cody Ford and there is a lot to like.

      I’m going to evaluate him fully tomorrow.


      @Handiman1031
      , is Saunders projected 1st round? Where was his success at? 1v1 Pass Pro. As I noted in my 2nd round thread, 1v1 Pass Pro only does so much work for me because it doesn’t translate to actual football (DL have 3 way go, they have no keys, they have no gap responsibility, they have no line call). You can see some traits, but not much beyond that.

      I don’t believe he played against the interior of Deiter, Bradbury, and Lindstrom in the actual game, so I’m assuming he was on their team? Did you feel he performed well in the game?

      Its kind of like trying to bring strict Gi Jiujitsu (rather than actual combat Jiujitsu) into mixed martial arts. There is a lot that just doesn’t translate.

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      • Handiman1031

        Participant
        Post count: 34

        Nobody, Saunders played for the North squad so in the game he wasn’t going against those guys, but he definitely flashed.  3 tackles, 2 solo, 1 sack, 1 tfl and a QB hit.  His sack on Grier was pretty slick.  Nice hesitation move to diagnose the play action, crossed the face of the LG with an outside fake, good hand use to swim and rip to get back there for a violent throw down.

        He could go anywhere from the 1st to the 3rd rounds.  I have a feeling his stock is just going to continue to rise.  He flashed to me in everything I’ve seen all week since his backflip at 320 lbs went viral.  Just curious what your eye tells as far as how he stacks up against the elite DTs in the class.

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    • Pepsi

      Participant
      Post count: 2047

      Looking forward to the Greg Little review

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      I’ll try to look at him in my other thread.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      CODY FORD VS ALABAMA AND WEST VIRGINIA 2018

      Traits I saw…

      THE GOOD

      * Huge man with great frame, looks like good enough length (though not overwhelming), and great weight.

      * Great athlete in all directions (agile, balanced, quick, change-of-direction, knee-bender)…and not just for a man his size…period. This is Vita Vea like.

      * Very aggressive and physical with his hands and once he gets his hands where they need to be (and he works to reset them), the play (run or pass) is pretty much a win for him.

      * His vertical and 45 sets are quick and always balanced with great knee bend and wide base (so no real threat for an overset).

      * + motor and finish. He keeps feet moving to the whistle. He isn’t just trying to position you out of a play. He wants to (and he can) bury you.

      * Great Zone blocker be it crossing faces and sealing the edge in Outside or getting into someone and driving them in Inside.

      * His Pulls are quick, balanced, typically tight to the LoS and he covers a lot of ground quickly and easily.

      THE BAD

      * Both his Zone and his Vertical set footwork can be inefficient. He takes smaller initial steps (and more of them because of it) than he needs to. Sometimes this can cause problems on the edge in pass pro (despite his athleticism) and I wonder if this will be a problem in the Zone running game in the pros where he is trying to cross the face of vertically explosive 1 and 3 techs at the next level.

      * Easy and quick mover in space, but there are too many snaps where he has trouble locating his target in space (be it a pre-snap or post-snap issue) and ends up blocking no one.

      * Lack of (meaning none so far as I can tell) of experience with his hand in the dirt. This may seem like a trivial thing, but its biomechanically a different deal (more on that below).

      +++++++++++++

      ISLANDBUCS mentioned above that he things he is going to transition to Guard in the pros. I don’t know if this is what scouts are saying, but this seems extremely apt. Here are my thoughts on that:

      1) While he is an incredible athlete and extremely agile, his kick-slide footwork is really inconsistent. Sometimes its smooth and long, but a lot of times its choppy, short, and inefficient. He should be covering a lot more ground and because of this he can beaten to the edge sometimes. But he isn’t at any risk of oversetting as he is always balanced in his kick-slide (which this could partially be the point of the shorter, but inefficient footwork in his kickslide).

      2) The above makes him much more natural for 45 sets (which happen a lot at Offensive Guard). I think he would be perfect for protecting the B gap with that footwork.

      However…

      3) OU Tackles are ALWAYS in upright stance. They never have their hand in the dirt. Guard will be a transition for that reason alone (even though Guards are upright aplenty in obvious passing downs). I can’t project the implications of that (only to say that he’s so athletic that it could very well be an easy transition). Sometimes, big men who suddenly have to put their hand in the dirt have their first move being elevating their hips rather than keeping pad level and knee bend (therefore leverage and functional strength in the run game and anchor in the pass game) and that can cause striking issues because the launch point of their shooting hands is changing. That is a huge problem in both the run game and in pass protection.

      4) They run a ton of Zone in OU, a fair bit of Gap, but not a ton of Man. I’m very confident he can pull as a Guard (he did it well at OU when asked) and get in space and block on Screens and he’s such a great athlete (great movement skills with simultaneous great base), however, as noted above, there are plays where he has trouble acquiring his target. Further still, I don’t know how he is going to be getting off the ball with his hand in the dirt/maintaining a good base/pad level and striking in Man (comboing or single).

      I think he’ll be fine, but I can’t know for sure.

      His ceiling is HUGE. He has a higher ceiling than Jonas Williams, but he isn’t a better player right now. And while I think he actually could translate to a great OG at the NFL level, lets pump the brakes on that (need to see how he deals with the biomechanics of his hand being in the dirt and if he improves at locating/acquiring target on 2nd level climbs and on Screens).

      Finally, I do think he is a top tier player and, I could easily see him being the best OL in this class. For now, I’m going to put him just behind Williams (though I’m not sure I’d personally take Williams if forced between the two…I’d probably take Ford…but just objectively as a prospect, I’m going to put Williams a little ahead).

      TOP TIER

      1 – Josh Allen (Edge)

      2 – Jachai Polite (Edge)

      3 – Quinnen Williams (DT)

      4 – Greedy Williams (CB)

      5 – Jaylon Ferguson (Edge)

      6 – Clellin Ferrell (Edge)

      7 – Ed Oliver (DT)

      8 – Jonah Williams (LT) (assuming a Zone run offense…if not, he goes down to the next tier)

      9 – Cody Ford (OL)

      2ND TIER

      10 – Montez Sweat (Edge)

      11 – Dexter Lawrence (DT)

      12 – Deandre Baker (CB)

      13 – Byron Murphy (CB)

      14 – Rashan Gary (DL)

      15 – Devin White (ILB)

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      Looking forward to the Greg Little review

      Alright, I’ve just reviewed GREG LITTLE vs ALABAMA AND AUBURN 2018

      I’m not going to do the same sort of write-up that I’ve done with others.

      I’m going to make a singular statement and then write lines of supporting evidence.

      GREG LITTLE LOOKS EXACTLY LIKE DONOVAN SMITH ON TAPE (STAY AWAY). He is a boom or bust player with high variance in his play from snap to snap.

      * He has fantastic size and length. DSmith.

      * He has a great kick-slide (agile, efficient, good knee bend, good posture) and the footwork to mirror pass rushers without oversetting (when he wants to). DSmith.

      * His anchor is + due to his size and knee-bend (and he can re-anchor if he loses initially). DSmith.

      * When in space (be it pulling or climbing 2nd level, etc), the athleticism that he shows in his pass sets often doesn’t show up. He can randomly run up the back of his own guys (pullers in front of him or down blockers) on pulls (or make the correct play). He can fail to find people in space or take inappropriate angles. DSmith.

      * His strike placement is extremely inconsistent and you see all kinds of reps where he’s outside of the frame on the initial strike and he doesn’t adjust. This creates leverage loss and the prospect for Holding in both the run game and passing game. DSmith.

      * His effort in drive blocking (be it Inside Zone or Man or down-blocking or Gap) has all kinds of variance and WAY too many snaps where he is content to simply occupies defenders and not drive his legs and/or flip/flex/snap his hips to move someone on their axis. There is no excuse for that with a man of this size/length and what-should-be functional strength. DSmith. (As an aside, this works in concert with laziness and poor hand strike placement, and lack of adjustment, to have more opportunities to Hold). However, other times, he’ll have excellent, dominating snaps. DSmith.

      * There are plenty of plays where they run play-action Zone (or other) and he’s mostly uncovered and he is content to not find work. DSmith.

      * There are plays where he is standing near the pile in the running game and he’s content to stand and watch. DSmith.

      ++++++++++++++++++++++++++

      I’m putting him at the bottom of this prospect list, but this is the kind of player that I personally want no part of. The athleticism that is expressed on certain parts of the tape is completely absent on other parts, particularly in space and when trying to move people in the running game, so that tells me he has some proprioception/spatial awareness and some want-to/effort issues.

      There is little excuse for many of the lack-of-effort things I see on tape and no excuse for him to not be a functional people mover. One of the things I HATE seeing on tape is big, athletic OL being content with just occupying people in the running game. Its a horrible trait and its contagious to the rest of the line…and the rest of the team. Its no coincidence that oftentimes physical defenses have physical finishers on the OL or in the running game (Alstott and our great defenses were synergistic) and vice versa. Football is an extremely contagious sport. Keep guys that are contagious in a bad way off your team.

      TOP TIER

      1 – Josh Allen (Edge)

      2 – Jachai Polite (Edge)

      3 – Quinnen Williams (DT)

      4 – Greedy Williams (CB)

      5 – Jaylon Ferguson (Edge)

      6 – Clellin Ferrell (Edge)

      7 – Ed Oliver (DT)

      8 – Jonah Williams (LT) (assuming a Zone run offense…if not, he goes down to the next tier)

      9 – Cody Ford (OL)

      2ND TIER

      10 – Montez Sweat (Edge)

      11 – Dexter Lawrence (DT)

      12 – Deandre Baker (CB)

      13 – Byron Murphy (CB)

      14 – Rashan Gary (DL)

      15 – Devin White (ILB)

      16 – Greg Little (OT)

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      • SaskBucs

        Participant
        Post count: 190

        Oh good… probably the pick at 5 then.

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    • Pepsi

      Participant
      Post count: 2047

      There is little excuse for many of the lack-of-effort things I see on tape and no excuse for him to not be a functional people mover. One of the things I HATE seeing on tape is big, athletic OL being content with just occupying people in the running game. Its a horrible trait and its contagious to the rest of the line…and the rest of the team. Its no coincidence that oftentimes physical defenses have physical finishers on the OL or in the running game (Alstott and our great defenses were synergistic) and vice versa. Football is an extremely contagious sport.

      This is why Id love to see Lindstrom next to Jensen. Marpet on the other side. Thats 3 interior  guys who at least play all out till the whistle.

      who do you think plays with better effort out of Jonah Williams and Cody Ford? I havent watched too many guys this year.

      Also, if Greg Little is there in round 2, are you passing on him?

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      Both Williams and Ford play with great effort.

      Neither of them are remotely in the Quenton Nelson territory, but they both keep their feet moving to sustain blocks (rather than just being content to block people). Williams is more efficient in his footwork in Pass Pro and in the Zone running game, but Ford is the better athlete, has the better/bigger frame and is more overwhelming once he gets his hands set (typically reset as his initial strike isn’t always perfectly placed) inside the frame. Williams is a more polished product and is better in space (because he’s better at locating his target and getting there), but Ford has the higher ceiling for sure.

      But honestly, I don’t want either of them in the 1st round. There are too many good DL players and Greedy looks the part of a legitimate CB at the next level.

      Drafting either of them would be need over BPA.

      As far as Little in round 2? I will take Deiter and Lindstrom over him even without the effort issues I see from him. Include the effort issues…as I said in my post…this is the kind of player I flat out don’t want on my offensive line. You don’t teach effort, mean-streak, relentless, finish. And I believe that any effort to operant conditioning it out of someone is extraordinarily difficult. Its marrow-deep…and contagious (for guys who are malleable…and the world is made of those people).

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    • ISLAND BUCS

      Participant
      Post count: 2925

      Nobody:

      I can clearly understand  your belief in a defensive lineman in round 1.  They can turn a game around like Mack did in the beginning of the season for Chicago. It is against average or worse NFL offensive  lines that outstanding DL men  really do their “thing.”

      Houston with JJ Watt and Clowney and Mercilus had little impact on Luck in the playoffs because the Colts have a really good OL

      And Mack and Hicks and Floyd had little impact against Phil with their quality OL.

      Great DL men seem to come every year, but quality OL men are more rare.

      For that reason, even though DL men in this draft are very good, I feel the Bucs have to bite the bullet, and take Ford, a really large man, who can wear out the man across the LOS from him by the 4th quarter.

      Going DL in the 1st round is the sexy pick, but it going to be hard for the Bucs to win if Winston has to contend with leaks in the OL.

      The Bucs can trade down and get a second 2nd round pick and still be sure of getting Ford.

      So it’s Ford plus a 2nd instead of one DL man.

      It’s not sexy, but it will do more towards winning football.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      @ISLANDBUCS

      You’re talking to the guy who was begging for Quenton Nelson to fall one more spot :) So I’m A-OK with OL in round 1.

      However, I’m a big believer in (a) BPA and (b) evaluation of subsequent round prospects simultaneous with earlier round picks. I’m especially so when BPA matches up with need. This team still needs an infusion of talent on the DL and we don’t have a dominant edge rusher (who can change a game like no other position except QB).

      So here are my thoughts on Ford in round 1:

      1) As I wrote above, I see him as a great prospect (somewhere in the 6-9 range for us in the 1st round). However…

      2) He has some issues…especially as a transition to Guard (never playing with his hand in the dirt…not being great in finding his man in space). Further, while I’m convinced that his ceiling is the highest of all OL in this draft, right now Deiter and Lindstrom are high floor, + ceiling players at OG in the 2nd round who will almost surely be better than him at that position week 1. A transition to a high-end OG for Ford is not remotely a guaranteed thing. Further, even if he does, there will be transitional pains (probably the first 6-8 games of the season if he is able to put it together his rookie year).

      3) There are only 2 real prospects for us in the 2nd round, and that is Jaylon Ferguson (Edge) and Gerald Willis (DT)…should they make it there.

      So let us compare 2 drafts:

      Trade down to 10:

      1) Polite (Edge)

      2a) Oruwariye (CB)

      2b) Deiter (OG)

      vs

      1) Ford (OG)

      2a) Oruwariye (CB)

      2b) Ferguson (Edge)

      +++++++++++++++

      I would love both of those drafts…however,

      * The 1st is MUCH more likely to work out for us (due to the likely relative draft stock of Deiter vs Ferguson).

      * The 1st gives us a VERY RARE player who has elite get-off, acceleration and can dip/bend a hard C/D gap edge and get the QB…and who also is great at causing fumbles in doing so (which are huge gamechangers…as we well know).

      * The 1st ensures us an OG who is a relentless and technical finisher in the running game (and is good in all facets of it from Man to Zone to Pulling in Gap to climbing 2nd level) and is solid in Pass Pro (he was fantastic in the Senior Bowl and the tape I watched he was also very good). And this is a player with no transition pains…who has shown it already at the Guard position.

      Meanwhile…

      * The 2nd is significantly less likely due to both Ferguson and Oruwariye have a remote chance of lasting to that 2nd pick in the 2nd round (heck, they may not last to that initial pick in the 2nd round).

      * While I love Ferguson (he has one of, if not the, highest floors in the draft I think…barring injury, he is going to be a functional NFL edge player bare minimum), he doesn’t come close to the ceiling that Polite has (who also has a good floor…but warts of his own).

      +++++++++++

      So those are my thoughts. I love both of those prospective drafts, but the 2nd is less likely than the 1st and the 1st provides specific advantages over the 2nd. Meanwhile the Ford/Polite ceiling may end up being roughly the same.

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    • ISLAND BUCS

      Participant
      Post count: 2925

      Nobody:

      Certainly I appreciate your viewpoint.  It is well thought out and logical.

      I cooled a lot on Deiter watching the one on ones in practice before the Senior Bowl.

      He got pushed back on a bull rush and he fell on another.  He may have played better in the game.

      So I started looking for a better Guard. And I feel real good DL men come around more often than good OL.

      By the way, I also wanted Nelson.  I think the OL is a key to success.

      Right now, Brady has not been sacked since the playoffs started.  That plus I feel a good deal of  the success Indy had against Houston and Phil had against Chicago could be attributed to their OLs

      But in final analysis, I consider your view very valid.

      I am counting on Ford being lights out and perhaps he will have an adjustment period.

      Not sure how the Bucs DL will be.  But it could be, at least for 2019, JP, Vea and McCoy.

      Please wait…

    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      The only comment I have about the above is a couple of things (which I’ve expressed in a few places, including a pretty significant breakdown in the 2nd round thread):

      1) I’d be very cautious about being drawn into the zeitgeist of a singular rep (such as everyone flipping out about the NCAA Championship Pass Set where Jonas Williams got Turf Snipered and fell back in the middle of a kickslide as Ferrell went through him for a big Pressure…suddenly Williams stock drops and Ferrells grows? Not in a world that is rigorous.) or a practice session or a drill that has very little applicability to actual football (more on that below).

      2) 1v1 Pass Rush is not a football drill that translates well to actual football. (a) DL don’t have a line call that they’re responsible for (so they don’t have to first read a key and make sure they have their gap(s) integrity taken care of), (b) DL have a 3-way-go (through the OL or left or right), and (c) instead of the space to rush being finite, they have (for all intents and purposes) unlimited space by comparison to an actual game rep. Just the lack of a burden of mental processing alone (due to extra-rush responsibility; keys, gap, etc) is a HUGE advantage for DL. It doesn’t resemble actual football.

      What it does show is (i) does x DL player have a pass rush suite/set of counters and (ii) how well does y OL player express proper fundamentals and/or play with leverage in a “set up to fail” situation? Now that is useful information to have…but its sort of like the old adage about models:

      “All models are wrong, but some models are useful.”

      1v1 Pass Rush is “wrong” (in that it isn’t football), but it has some (limited and context-based) use.

      3) Deiter was fantastic in the game. By far the best out of the 5 relevant OL. He had be far the lowest number of negative plays and graded out by far the best (conversely, Lindstrom was the worst, next to Risner…but that doesn’t mean all the data of Lindstrom’s prior, great, play at BC should be dismisssed…that would just be an, incorrect, expression of temporal discounting bias).

      ++++++++++++

      So, anyhoo. Regardless, we need to address our OL with at least one player in this draft. Like I’ve said before, I expect DSmith to be tagged, Dotson to be cut, a FA RT or RG signed, and the other spot needs filled by an instant impact starter in the draft. Whether that is Ford, Deiter, or Lindstrom, I’m fine with it. But we need to draft by BPA and consider opportunity cost (right now and in subsequent rounds).

      Please wait…

    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      Alright, to finish out this thread, I’m going to order the above players in the following 4 separate lists with the secondary prioritization being their personal prospect rank in all cases (FYI, I will not be including Greg Little on this list):

      GENERAL POSITIONAL VALUE (COMBINATION OF TYPICAL DRAFT POSITION AND NFL SALARY BEING A PRIMARY INPUT HERE)

      1 – Josh Allen (Edge)
      2 – Jachai Polite (Edge)
      3 – Jaylon Ferguson (Edge)
      4 – Clellin Ferrell (Edge)
      5 – Montez Sweat (Edge)
      6 – Quinnen Williams (DT)
      7 – Ed Oliver (DT)
      8 – Dexter Lawrence (DT)
      9 – Rashan Gary (DL)
      10 – Jonah Williams (LT)
      11 – Cody Ford (OL)
      12 – Greedy Williams (CB)
      13 – Deandre Baker (CB)
      14 – Byron Murphy (CB)
      15 – Devin White (ILB)

      CEILING

      1 – Jachai Polite (Edge)
      2 – Cody Ford (OL)
      3 – Josh Allen (Edge)
      4 – Greedy Williams (CB)
      5 – Ed Oliver (DT)
      6 – Quinnen Williams (DT)
      7 – Clellin Ferrell (Edge)
      8 – Devin White (ILB)
      9 – Montez Sweat (Edge)
      10 – Deandre Baker (CB)
      11 – Byron Murphy (CB)
      12 – Dexter Lawrence (DT)
      13 – Jonah Williams (LT)
      14 – Jaylon Ferguson (Edge)
      15 – Rashan Gary (DL)

      FLOOR

      1 – Jaylon Ferguson (Edge)
      2 – Clellin Ferrell (Edge)
      3 – Jonah Williams (LT)
      4 – Josh Allen (Edge)
      5 – Greedy Williams (CB)
      6 – Jachai Polite (Edge)
      7 – Cody Ford (OL)
      8 – Quinnen Williams (DT)
      9 – Deandre Baker (CB)
      10 – Byron Murphy (CB)
      11 – Ed Oliver (DT)
      12 – Dexter Lawrence (DT)
      13 – Montez Sweat (Edge)
      14 – Devin White (ILB)
      15 – Rashan Gary (DL)

      BUCCANEER 1ST ROUND BIG BOARD (CEILING INTERSECTING WITH FLOOR INTERSECTING WITH BPA INTERSECTING WITH POSITIONAL VALUE INTERSECTING WITH NEED INTERSECTING WITH DRAFT DEPTH AND FALL-OFF AT POSITION)

      1 – Josh Allen (Edge)
      2 – Jachai Polite (Edge)
      3 – Greedy Williams (CB)
      4 – Quinnen Williams (DT)
      5 – Clellin Ferrell (Edge)
      6 – Cody Ford (OL)
      7 – Jaylon Ferguson (Edge)
      8 – Ed Oliver (DT)
      9 – Jonah Williams (LT)
      10 – Deandre Baker (CB)
      11 – Byron Murphy (CB)
      12 – Montez Sweat (Edge)
      13 – Devin White (ILB)
      14 – Dexter Lawrence (DT)
      15 – Rashan Gary (DL)

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      Quick addendum. Because he is in my other thread, I didn’t slot them in here. But I would put Brian Burns at number 10 in this group and then slot everyone else down one.

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    • Roy

      Participant
      Post count: 3325

      I don’t see Jawaan Taylor in either of your 1st or 2nd round threads.  Where do you see him going?

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      I haven’t reviewed him. That is the last guy I was thinking about doing. He’s clearly a 1st round pick from the pub that I’m seeing.

      I’d like to devote more time to the other thread (as there are a lot more prospects involved). If I have time in the future, I’ll take a look at him in this thread.

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    • jerseybucsfan

      Participant
      Post count: 551

      Great job again, Nobody. And I for one would be delighted if the Bucs had a Big Board resembling this.

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    • ISLAND BUCS

      Participant
      Post count: 2925

      Nobody:

      It seems to me if an OL man can be pushed  back to the coach (representing the QB)  in 1 vs 1, this is quite similar to a game situation.

      If I am wrong, please explain.

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      • SaskBucs

        Participant
        Post count: 190

        Island Bucs are you just trolling Nobody? He explains quite well at the top of this page when answering you the first time.

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    • Cerious

      Participant
      Post count: 993

      Yep, this point sums up the explanation very clearly:

      2) 1v1 Pass Rush is not a football drill that translates well to actual football. (a) DL don’t have a line call that they’re responsible for (so they don’t have to first read a key and make sure they have their gap(s) integrity taken care of), (b) DL have a 3-way-go (through the OL or left or right), and (c) instead of the space to rush being finite, they have (for all intents and purposes) unlimited space by comparison to an actual game rep. Just the lack of a burden of mental processing alone (due to extra-rush responsibility; keys, gap, etc) is a HUGE advantage for DL. It doesn’t resemble actual football.

      Please wait…

    • Cerious

      Participant
      Post count: 993

      Honestly everyone got a little down on Deiter during the week of practice over these 1v1 reps but he showed up good in the game which is further supported by his solid play all season long.

      The point we should all walk away with is that we shouldn’t get carried away a performance in one particular drill. Lindstrom, on the other hand solidly performed well in the 1v1 drills but play poorly in the actual game.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      Nobody:

      It seems to me if an OL man can be pushed back to the coach (representing the QB) in 1 vs 1, this is quite similar to a game situation.

      If I am wrong, please explain.

      If the explanation above wasn’t sufficient, let me try this.

      Add this singular wrinkle to 1v1 pass rush (this still doesn’t do near enough work to make it football):

      1) The Guard can either Pass Set (their choice), Pull set, or Zone set.

      2) The DT has to read the Guard’s first post-snap step instantly and then respond correctly and immediately. If he doesn’t respond correctly and win (eg laterally cross the face of the Guard in a Zone set), then the rep is won by the Guard.

      Just making 1v1 “Pass Rush” like that would make it somewhat more like football, but it still wouldn’t restrict DL enough.

      So we’ve:

      a) Added a post-snap mental processing burden…

      and

      b) Created a “moving (rather than static) win condition” for the rep.

      Does that illuminate how easy it is for DL to win these reps and how it really doesn’t test “football?”

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      Honestly everyone got a little down on Deiter during the week of practice over these 1v1 reps but he showed up good in the game which is further supported by his solid play all season long.

      The point we should all walk away with is that we shouldn’t get carried away performance in a one particular drill. Lindstrom, on the other hand solidly performed well in the 1v1 drills but play poorly in the actual game.

      Good post Cerious. That is exactly what I’m saying.

      I’d also smuggle that to the rest of the world while I’m at it!

      And I’d also add “its ok to be wrong but its not ok to stay wrong stubbornly” and “its not only ok to change your mind…changing your mind when new information compels you to is healthy!”

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    • Cerious

      Participant
      Post count: 993

      Before you smuggle that gem, I’d like to apologize for the typo quoted there, lol. I misplaced my “a”. Fixed in my original post.

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    • ISLAND BUCS

      Participant
      Post count: 2925

      Nobody

      Cody Ford played Guard for Okla in 2016 (I think) and 2017.

      He moved to Tackle in 2018 because there was a “hole” at that position.

      I don’t think it will be much of a problem to return to Guard  in the NFL.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      Nobody

      Cody Ford played Guard for Okla in 2016 (I think) and 2017.

      He moved to Tackle in 2018 because there was a “hole” at that position.

      I don’t think it will be much of a problem to return to Guard in the NFL.

      Really?

      That is a big plus for him then. The projection at Guard becomes significantly easier then in terms of playing with his hand in the dirt.

      However, the locating his target and taking the appropriate angle in space (2nd level climbs and Screens specifically) is still an issue (and NFL Guards are in space regularly). Perhaps I’ll check some 2017 games if I get a chance.

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    • Buc on the Move

      Participant
      Post count: 1497

      ISLAND BUCS standing on the table for Ford.  I love it.  But damn this time of year lasts too long.  There will be so many players debated, and moves up and down, I just hope we don’t come out with Rojo/MJ Stewart 2.0.  While those guys still get a chance to prove themselves, Bucs could really use some instant impact from the draft.  OL/DL let’s get it done.  Lot’s of good players out there.

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    • ISLAND BUCS

      Participant
      Post count: 2925

      Nobody:

      Ford played thru injury in 2017.

       

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    • ISLAND BUCS

      Participant
      Post count: 2925

      There is no question that Ford is a talent.

      Probably the #1 Guard in this draft.

      His size is the “clincher” for me.

      Other teams are going to get a DT like Vea (340-350),

      If you are a 300 to 310 lb Guard you probably are going to be tired after 3 quarters of butting heads with someone who outweighs you by 40 lbs.

      My guess is Ford weights 335 to 345.  This is a big man who is light enough on his feet to play tackle.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      I just tried to find some games where I could look at Ford in 2016 and 2017 at Guard. Results:

      1) I couldn’t find any available.

      2) Apparently, he was in a very limited Guard rotation in his Freshman year in 2016 and didn’t see a ton of snaps.

      3) In 2017, he got injured in the opener (knee injury) and tried to come back around 4-5 weeks later, reinjured and ended up missing the significant bulk of the season’s snaps.

      So, if anything, this hurts his draft consideration as a knee injury (either propensity toward due to biomechanics or a fluke injury that may or may not manifest again in the pros) is something to consider when drafting a player. Further, I (personally) don’t have any data that can move me either way (beyond where I’m currently at) regarding projecting him as an NFL Offensive Guard.

      Could he be the #1 Guard in the draft? Possibly? I don’t have enough data to assuage my concerns (2nd level climbs, Screens, playing with hand in the dirt) and to make a confident projection at this point.

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    • ISLAND BUCS

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      Post count: 2925

      Maybe we will get further clarification after the Combine

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    • Gareth

      Participant
      Post count: 212

      Man I wouldn’t hate Ford playing RT if in a tough spot.

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    • GoldsonAges

      Participant
      Post count: 2945

      There are plenty of big tackles projected as guards. These are not the guys who ahould be in the “1st round prospects” thread.

      You dont want to draft those guys until day two or three.

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    • ISLAND BUCS

      Participant
      Post count: 2925

      Goldson:

      Benenoch falls into that category of big tackles playing guard that was drafted on the 3rd day..

      And he is the “hole” the Bucs are trying to fill.

      Cappa falls into that category, and that has little promise of success

      Pamphile  also falls in that category and that was a “fail”

      Nelson really helped to protect Luck

      NE took a guard in the 1st round (Logan Mankins) and that worked out well for them.

      NE also took a RB  in the 1st round of 2018 (Michel) and that also worked out well.

      Arians said the OL has to be addressed.

      Well then, why not take the best Guard in the draft.  Some other team surely will.

      And Ford is originally a guard who played tackle in 2018

      A moose with light feet.

       

       

       

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    • GoldsonAges

      Participant
      Post count: 2945

      Island
      There is a significant value problem with taking a tackle / projected guard in the top 5, or even in the top 10 for that matter and I would argue in the 1st round at all.

      Point #1 Guards and centers are the worst athletes. Look at the top graded guards and compare to other positions. The best guards will be PFF sub-80. Corners, DL, WR’s, QB’s and so on are rated mid-90’s when on top of the game. Even a great guard drafted in the top 10 doesn’t give you great value compared to other great players at other positions.

      Point #2 There is no historical precedence for taking this kind of player so high. There have only been 4 top-10 guards taken in the last 20+ years. All of them were completely dominant at the college level and projected as top level dominant guards at the next level. Leonard Davis, Jon Cooper, Chase Warmack and Q. Q had a great year so if you project him as being great, Anthony Davis was great and the other two were pretty much busts considering draft position. That’s a 50% bust rate on players who were beyond Ford’s level in college by a good margin.

      That’s my reasoning for why a player like Cody Ford shouldn’t be considered in the top 5 even remotely.

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    • ISLAND BUCS

      Participant
      Post count: 2925

      Goldson:

      There is a bit of a misunderstanding.

      I wouldn’t take Ford with the 5th pick.

      I would trade down to get an additional 2nd round pick—maybe trade down to 12th—Denver needs a QB. Would not give up more than a 5th round to make the deal.

      Then with the 12th pick in the 1st, I would take Ford.

      Denver’s 2nd is  very close to to the Bucs 2nd. And I would take a CB and a Safety with these 2 second round picks. I would hope to get Oruwariye giving the Bucs 2 tall CB’s with Davis.  I would take the best safety from Abram, Rapp and Thornhill.

      In the 3rd I would hope for an interior LB.  Pratt seems to fill the role of a fast LB who can help in pass coverage.

      In the 4th I would like a RB who is a true threat as a receiver out of the backfield like Rodney Anderson, or 2nd choice Benny Snell.

      This would give the Bucs 5  players to plug 5 noticeable holes in today’s Bucs.

      I understand your position, and I would not take Ford as the 5th overall choice. But at 12th and considering his size, I would be glad to have him for 10 or so years.

      I believe if Winston has the time afforded by a better OL, he could be a winning QB.

       

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    • GoldsonAges

      Participant
      Post count: 2945

      Island

      No problem. I see your point.

      Also I forgot about Brandon Scherrf. Tackle projected to guard who was drafted at No.5.

      Zach martin went 16th.

      I have liked lots of big tackles with quick feet over the years who were projecting to guard. Daryl Williams was probably the best pro out of them all. He was a 4th round pick of the Redskins and ended up playing right tackle for them at a high level last year.

      I acknowledge the Benenoch’s of the world, but I also know there are players like this who can be developed like Daryl Williams, Rob Havenstein (2nd round) who overachieve and ended up as highly rated right tackles who didn’t require premium draft capital to acquire.

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    • The Anti-Java

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    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      The official Combine participant list…

      https://t.co/6pGCLHW0pL

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    • GoldsonAges

      Participant
      Post count: 2945

      I was watching a bit of Ford yesterday and he’s impressive. The problem with drafting OL in round one is it’s such a crap shoot, and generally I don’t think the draft is a crapshoot at all.

      In fact I hate it when people say it’s a crapshoot because the draft overall isn’t a crapshoot. But if you look at all the 1st round offensive linemen drafted in the last 10 years what you’ll see is a crapshoot. Jake Fischer, Greg Robinson, Ereck Flowers, Cedric Ogbuehi, Laremy Tunsil, Donovan Smith.

      That doesn’t even scratch the surface of ultra underachieving OL drafted in the 1st round the last 10 years. The cupboard would have to be extremely bare at other positions for me to endorse an OL in the top 20. Any OL regardless of how good they look because you never know until they are exposed to NFL Pass rushers how they’ll respond.

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    • ISLAND BUCS

      Participant
      Post count: 2925

      Goldson:

      Drafting Ford, not to be an OT,

      but to fill the hole at guard.

      2018 was the only year Ford played OT. The earlier years were  at Guard.

      And if we trade down to 12th Ford  would probably be available.

      An alternative would be to take Taylor if he is still available at 12th and play him at guard with idea to shifting him to RT when Dotson retires.

      I really don’t know how Taylor would be as a guard

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    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 5866

      I was watching a bit of Ford yesterday and he’s impressive. The problem with drafting OL in round one is it’s such a crap shoot, and generally I don’t think the draft is a crapshoot at all.

      In fact I hate it when people say it’s a crapshoot because the draft overall isn’t a crapshoot. But if you look at all the 1st round offensive linemen drafted in the last 10 years what you’ll see is a crapshoot. Jake Fischer, Greg Robinson, Ereck Flowers, Cedric Ogbuehi, Laremy Tunsil, Donovan Smith.

      That doesn’t even scratch the surface of ultra underachieving OL drafted in the 1st round the last 10 years. The cupboard would have to be extremely bare at other positions for me to endorse an OL in the top 20. Any OL regardless of how good they look because you never know until they are exposed to NFL Pass rushers how they’ll respond.

      Yeah, we know.  You made this same flawed argument last season when discussing Quenton Nelson, and how Wyatt Teller and/or Cody O’Connell were going to be just as good.

      You might need to readjust this line of thinking.

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    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      I was watching a bit of Ford yesterday and he’s impressive. The problem with drafting OL in round one is it’s such a crap shoot, and generally I don’t think the draft is a crapshoot at all.

      In fact I hate it when people say it’s a crapshoot because the draft overall isn’t a crapshoot. But if you look at all the 1st round offensive linemen drafted in the last 10 years what you’ll see is a crapshoot. Jake Fischer, Greg Robinson, Ereck Flowers, Cedric Ogbuehi, Laremy Tunsil, Donovan Smith.

      That doesn’t even scratch the surface of ultra underachieving OL drafted in the 1st round the last 10 years. The cupboard would have to be extremely bare at other positions for me to endorse an OL in the top 20. Any OL regardless of how good they look because you never know until they are exposed to NFL Pass rushers how they’ll respond.

      Yeah, we know. You made this same flawed argument last season when discussing Quenton Nelson, and how Wyatt Teller and/or Cody O’Connell were going to be just as good.

      You might need to readjust this line of thinking.

      I recall that also.

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    • GoldsonAges

      Participant
      Post count: 2945

      I was watching a bit of Ford yesterday and he’s impressive. The problem with drafting OL in round one is it’s such a crap shoot, and generally I don’t think the draft is a crapshoot at all.

      In fact I hate it when people say it’s a crapshoot because the draft overall isn’t a crapshoot. But if you look at all the 1st round offensive linemen drafted in the last 10 years what you’ll see is a crapshoot. Jake Fischer, Greg Robinson, Ereck Flowers, Cedric Ogbuehi, Laremy Tunsil, Donovan Smith.

      That doesn’t even scratch the surface of ultra underachieving OL drafted in the 1st round the last 10 years. The cupboard would have to be extremely bare at other positions for me to endorse an OL in the top 20. Any OL regardless of how good they look because you never know until they are exposed to NFL Pass rushers how they’ll respond.

      Yeah, we know. You made this same flawed argument last season when discussing Quenton Nelson, and how Wyatt Teller and/or Cody O’Connell were going to be just as good.

      You might need to readjust this line of thinking.

      Never said that Biggs. I said I would rather draft those guys in the later rounds than draft Q in the top 10.

      Im not going to turn nobodys thread into a pissing match with you wven though you are certainly angling for that with your comment.

      I happen to respect nobodys opinion and thread, unlike the drivel you spew

      Get your facts straight before you make such nonsensical comments.

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    • GoldsonAges

      Participant
      Post count: 2945

      For the record I wouldn’t draft any OL in the Top 10 especially a guard. I think it’s great that Q rocked a 78 PFF grade last year for some other team as a top 10pick. I lost no sleep over it lol.

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    • GoldsonAges

      Participant
      Post count: 2945

      Goldson:

      Drafting Ford, not to be an OT,

      but to fill the hole at guard.

      2018 was the only year Ford played OT. The earlier years were at Guard.

      And if we trade down to 12th Ford would probably be available.

      An alternative would be to take Taylor if he is still available at 12th and play him at guard with idea to shifting him to RT when Dotson retires.

      I really don’t know how Taylor would be as a guard

      Taylor is the best OL in this draft.

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    • ISLAND BUCS

      Participant
      Post count: 2925

      Goldson:

      You may be right about Taylor being the best OL in the draft.

      In many drafts Taylor is available at 12th.

      I would take Taylor over Ford if he could play Guard which is the Bucs biggest problem on the OL.  In the future Taylor would probably become a RT

      I just have no knowledge about Taylor playing Guard.  I suppose he could, but I really don’t know. But surely he would be be better than Benenoch.

       

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    • GoldsonAges

      Participant
      Post count: 2945

      Not sure about Taylor at guard, but IMO he is the best OL period in the draft. He’s a pretty easy projection.

      He was pretty dominant even though he plays way too upright. If you can project him to play with a lower center of gravity at the next level even if that’s the only change he makes, he will be a very good lineman.

      He has the strength to play inside but he looks like a lifelong right tackle to me. He’s a slightly stronger, more athletic version of Rob ‘bonecrusher’ Havenstein, the Rams RT.

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    • Biggs3535

      Participant
      Post count: 5866

      I was watching a bit of Ford yesterday and he’s impressive. The problem with drafting OL in round one is it’s such a crap shoot, and generally I don’t think the draft is a crapshoot at all.

      In fact I hate it when people say it’s a crapshoot because the draft overall isn’t a crapshoot. But if you look at all the 1st round offensive linemen drafted in the last 10 years what you’ll see is a crapshoot. Jake Fischer, Greg Robinson, Ereck Flowers, Cedric Ogbuehi, Laremy Tunsil, Donovan Smith.

      That doesn’t even scratch the surface of ultra underachieving OL drafted in the 1st round the last 10 years. The cupboard would have to be extremely bare at other positions for me to endorse an OL in the top 20. Any OL regardless of how good they look because you never know until they are exposed to NFL Pass rushers how they’ll respond.

      Yeah, we know. You made this same flawed argument last season when discussing Quenton Nelson, and how Wyatt Teller and/or Cody O’Connell were going to be just as good.

      You might need to readjust this line of thinking.

      Never said that Biggs. I said I would rather draft those guys in the later rounds than draft Q in the top 10.

      Im not going to turn nobodys thread into a pissing match with you wven though you are certainly angling for that with your comment.

      I happen to respect nobodys opinion and thread, unlike the drivel you spew

      Get your facts straight before you make such nonsensical comments.

      There won’t be a pissing match.  It’s not my opinion vs. your opinion.  You said what you said. Now, you’re attempting to run from it.

       

      Wyatt Teller will grade out better at the pro level than Nelson.

       

      Seriously, go watch Cody O’ Connell out of Washington State. Exact same skill set as Nelson, with the exact same win % and he will be a late 2nd to late 3rd round pick. He is also terrible pulling and on the move. Players this size are never great on the move. Dont believe the hype Island. Go watch the Miami game.

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    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      I was watching a bit of Ford yesterday and he’s impressive. The problem with drafting OL in round one is it’s such a crap shoot, and generally I don’t think the draft is a crapshoot at all.

      In fact I hate it when people say it’s a crapshoot because the draft overall isn’t a crapshoot. But if you look at all the 1st round offensive linemen drafted in the last 10 years what you’ll see is a crapshoot. Jake Fischer, Greg Robinson, Ereck Flowers, Cedric Ogbuehi, Laremy Tunsil, Donovan Smith.

      That doesn’t even scratch the surface of ultra underachieving OL drafted in the 1st round the last 10 years. The cupboard would have to be extremely bare at other positions for me to endorse an OL in the top 20. Any OL regardless of how good they look because you never know until they are exposed to NFL Pass rushers how they’ll respond.

      Yeah, we know. You made this same flawed argument last season when discussing Quenton Nelson, and how Wyatt Teller and/or Cody O’Connell were going to be just as good.

      You might need to readjust this line of thinking.

      Never said that Biggs. I said I would rather draft those guys in the later rounds than draft Q in the top 10.

      Im not going to turn nobodys thread into a pissing match with you wven though you are certainly angling for that with your comment.

      I happen to respect nobodys opinion and thread, unlike the drivel you spew

      Get your facts straight before you make such nonsensical comments.

      There won’t be a pissing match. It’s not my opinion vs. your opinion. You said what you said. Now, you’re attempting to run from it.

      Wyatt Teller will grade out better at the pro level than Nelson.

      Seriously, go watch Cody O’ Connell out of Washington State. Exact same skill set as Nelson, with the exact same win % and he will be a late 2nd to late 3rd round pick. He is also terrible pulling and on the move. Players this size are never great on the move. Dont believe the hype Island. Go watch the Miami game.

      I gave up on that dude, some of these cats think its a felony to admit they were wrong about something. Whatever.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      JAWAAN TAYLOR VS KENTUCKY, FLORIDA STATE, AND MISSISSIPPI STATE 2018

      Eff it…I figured I needed to do the last guy for thoroughness..

      THE GOOD

      * Perfect Tackle frame; size, good weight, length.

      * Fantastic athleticism for a man this size; change of direction, able to deploy functional strength in awkward positions, good feet, good linear athlete as well.

      * Kickslide is extremely good. It isn’t just smooth and quick with good footwork. He deploys it appropriately to mirror (uses length and footwork to force edge rush beyond the C arc, stop and start for abrupt countermoves back to the inside). He isn’t just panicking to get to the edge and oversetting. It isn’t just good technically, its extremely athletic.

      * Hand strike initiative/timing is great and its violent. When he hits a rusher square inside the frame, he shocks the rush into a change of trajectory or potency (sometimes to a stall-out).

      * Waaaaay beyond functional strength; both lower half and upper half. When he wants to in the running game, he is definitely a people mover.

      * Space plays (pulls, 2nd level climb, Screens) show an athlete that is balanced and quick when moving and also has a good understanding of the spatial relationships/play geometry; typically finds his man.

      * IQ seems good. Plays different techniques with different pass sets (and his Quick Sets against 3 to 5 techs are fantastic) and he recognizes Twists/Games, doesn’t chase, and transitions them well.

      THE BAD

      * His pad level creeps into the “not good” territory at an uncomfortable frequency. Its not a ton (but 5-10 times a game is too many), but its enough that its noticeable and bothersome:

      a) In his Pass Sets I see Speed to Power from non-NFL 7/9 techs able to momentarily Stack/Shock him with hands and forcing displacement and a re-anchor. He’s routinely able to do it no problem, but what happens at the next level when he’s dealing with 7 techs that are better than the guys he is dealing with now?

      b) In the Run Game, there are plenty of snaps where he has so much more functional strength than the guy he is playing against that his knee bend disappears (and his feet stall) and he just manhandles them out of the way. If this is his run blocking regime at the next level, he’s going to be responsible for play losses.

      * Inconsistent finish in the running game. Sometimes the feet continue to the whistle and he generates ridiculous displacement and domination…but an uncomfortable number of times he is content with + feetwork, leveraging his man out of the play, extending his arms and walling him off (while standing up and taking 5). At the NCAA level these are typically rep wins. At the NFL level, this won’t fly.

      * Initial hand-strike is outside of the frame now and again and, when it is, he doesn’t work to reset. At the next level this will lead to (a) loss of leverage in displacement/anchor situations and (b) Holding penalties when he’s beat.

      +++++++++++

      Tough call between he and Cody Ford. I like Cody Ford’s finish MUCH better than Taylor. However, it looks pretty obvious that Taylor (a) will be a great pass protector at the next level (likely better than Ford) and (b) his play in space is better (not athletically, but his innate understanding of spatial relationships; he consistently acquires and takes better angles to targets). I’m going to put him just ahead of Ford.

      But I HATE seeing a big, physical man without a consistent effort to bury his target in the running game. I hate it. If he kept his feet moving, his knee bend, and his pad level on every running play (just wearing guys out), this may be my favorite prospect in the draft.

      But he rarely, rarely does. And there is no excuse for it (other than to ration his gas-tank).

      BUCCANEER 1ST ROUND FINAL BIG BOARD (CEILING INTERSECTING WITH FLOOR INTERSECTING WITH BPA INTERSECTING WITH POSITIONAL VALUE INTERSECTING WITH NEED INTERSECTING WITH DRAFT DEPTH AND FALL-OFF AT POSITION). I’M GOING TO INCLUDE MY 1ST ROUND GUYS FROM THE OTHER THREAD IN THIS.

      1 – Josh Allen (Edge)
      2 – Jachai Polite (Edge)
      3 – Greedy Williams (CB)
      4 – Quinnen Williams (DT)
      5 – Jawaan Taylor (RT)
      6 – Clellin Ferrell (Edge)
      7 – Cody Ford (OL)
      8 – Jaylon Ferguson (Edge)
      9 – Ed Oliver (DT)
      10 – Brian Burns (Edge)
      11 – Nasir Adderly (S)
      12 – Jonah Williams (LT)
      13 – Deandre Baker (CB)
      14 – Byron Murphy (CB)
      15 – Montez Sweat (Edge)
      16 – Devin White (ILB)
      17 – Dexter Lawrence (DT)
      18 – Rashan Gary (DL)

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    • ISLAND BUCS

      Participant
      Post count: 2925

      Thanks Nobody:

      I would say that at this date, Taylor is available at 12th (trading down with Denver) 80% of the time.

      I would be fine with the Bucs taking Taylor over Ford, if Taylor is available.

      When you are that good, there  can be a tendency to be satisfied with winning the current snap.

      In the Pros, some coach will make him aware that not only must he win this snap, but come 4th Q, he wants the DE to be tired so the team can win close games.

      Again thanks for the above on both Taylor and Ford.

       

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      No problem.

      My issue with “gas-tank ratioining” style of play vs “dominate and break the will of my opponent every play” is that its a behavioral regime that is almost always coaching irrelevant.

      “Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women” is an innate, King Kong type evolutionary psychological trait. Quenton Nelson IS that guy. He wants to see his enemies spitting blood, quitting in the 4th quarter. Donovan Smith IS NOT that guy. He is just trying to avoid the lung-burning discomfort of 110 % every play and make sure he has 75 + % available throughout the game. He isn’t worried with imposing his will on the guy across from him and inspiring his allies to also “crush their enemies.”

      No coach is going to coach that out of Nelson. That is Nelson.

      No coach is going to coach that into Smith. That is Smith.

      Personally, although he isn’t the athlete that Taylor is (nor does he possess Taylor’s size frame), I like Cajuste more in the 2nd (because he has that “crush your enemies” in him…and he’s pretty damn good).

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    • ISLAND BUCS

      Participant
      Post count: 2925

      You are right, “crush your enemy” is a personality trait.

      I am hoping that “for the good of the team,” that mentality can be ingrained over time.

      Maybe not possible with D. Smith, but some players take coaching very well.

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    • GoldsonAges

      Participant
      Post count: 2945

      Nice writeup on Taylor @nobody

      I’d love to see us trade back pick up an extra 2nd then trade back up into the 1st and get 2 of the players in your top 11.

      That would be ideal. After No.11 I see a huge drop off.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      @GoldsonAges

      Absolutely agreed. Sizable drop-off after 11, and significant drop-off after 12.

      If we came out of this draft with 2 of those guys (I expect Ferguson to be late 1st/early 2nd because he isn’t that rare explosive edge-bender…he’s just a huge floor player…and Burns to be mid/late 1st due to being a light tweener and a lack of coverage reps on tape).

      So something like:

      * Taylor @ 12
      * Ferguson or Burns late 1st
      * Somehow find a way to move up into the 2nd to get Deiter/Lindstrom/Pratt (I’m rather convinced at this point that Pratt won’t make it to the 3rd round, unfortunately).

      3 impact players.

      I wish I could find another great coverage LB in this draft (who isn’t a hole elsewhere). I’m just not seeing it. I have to check the kid from Clemson. Maybe there is a secret 4th round pick from a small school?

      That is really what I’m looking for at this point; a great coverage LB who isn’t Pratt (given that its a remote chance that you end up with any given player).

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      Alternatively though, you could be looking at something like:

      Polite @ 7 or 10
      Some combination of Deiter/Pratt/Oruwaryie/Lindstrom/Cajuste in the 2nd and 3rd

      That is a much more reasonable scenario and there you’re looking at shoring up 4 positions of need, plus you’re getting a rare, elite edge rush prospect that is also an elite finisher.

      If we came out of that with Cajuste and Deiter, you’d be looking at the right side of the line suddenly turning into an extremely physical brand of football with two guys that are looking to finish every play, 1st quarter through 4th.

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    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      I vote for the alternate plan, big thumbs up.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      I vote for the alternate plan, big thumbs up.

      Yup. In theory:

      Right side of the OL improved immensely
      Running Game/Red Zone improved immensely
      Pass defense improved immensely

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    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      @NOBODY

      I have been hearing a little talk about a guy named Tyler Roemer.
      If you have already reviewed him and I missed it, disregard.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      @TheAnti-Java

      Just looked him up.

      San Diego State LT who was suspended permanently (why?). 6’7″ (I default to concerns with pad level, change-of-direction, knee-bend with those guys) but apparently athletic? Dot-like?

      Mid-round player (I can do him for the other thread)? What are you hearing? Any idea what the suspension about?

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    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      @TheAnti-Java

      Just looked him up.

      San Diego State LT who was suspended permanently (why?). 6’7″ (I default to concerns with pad level, change-of-direction, knee-bend with those guys) but apparently athletic? Dot-like?

      Mid-round player (I can do him for the other thread)? What are you hearing? Any idea what the suspension about?

      No idea, I heard my Dad and another agent talking about him today, and they were acting like he was going to be a steal in the draft. They even mentioned he could sneak into the first round, that is why I mentioned him here in this thread.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      Interesting. I’ll take a look at him in a bit in the other thread and maybe he’ll be in the Burns, Adderley, Willis territory (mid-late 1st).

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    • Graham

      Participant
      Post count: 1768

      I don’t really want to start another thread on this simply because this particular one has weeded out the posters I want to avoid.  Anyway:

      Why can’t Licht trade back twice in this draft?  We’ve all talked about doing it once, but there’s opportunity here for him to do it multiple times if teams love Haskins, Lock, and/or Murray.

      Once with the Giants to #6 and then again with Denver or Jacksonville for #7 or #10.  Maybe even the Redskins at #15?

      Don’t necessarily ask for the moon.  Simply dangle those selections to those teams in return for 2nd or 3rd rounders.  Still get a guy in the top 15, and then pick up multiple other players throughout the early stages of this draft.

       

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    • Pennywise

      Participant
      Post count: 9745

      From Daniel jerimaha yesterday

      Just studied San Diego State OT Tyler Roemer (74). Wow! Explosive dude. First round ability. I need to dig on the off the field stuff.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      Outside of those top 11 guys mentioned above, you’ve got:

      Bosa

      1-2 QBs

      1 WR

      1-2 Surpises/Reaches (including White)

      So that is 5ish players. As such, a double trade back to 15 would surely allow you to get one of:

      Burns, Adderly, Ferguson (who isn’t a prototypical top of the 1st player…unless he kills the combine; doubtful).

      A trade back to 10 and then 15 should net you 2 extra 2nd rounders and you’re probably giving up your 4th, possibly your 5th as well.

      Its a tough call.

      I love Adderly.

      I really like Burns but he is a bit of a tweener with some finish issues.

      At 15 you are completely out of the running for Polite and Taylor…possibly Ford as well.

      3 * 2nd round picks in this draft though? And still having a 3rd?

      That is (assuming we don’t pull a Jones/Stewart) potential for several impact players.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      From Daniel jerimaha yesterday

      Just studied San Diego State OT Tyler Roemer (74). Wow! Explosive dude. First round ability. I need to dig on the off the field stuff.

      It’s weird that in this day and age a big time NCAA athlete’s cause for suspension is a complete mystery .

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    • tampaspicer

      Participant
      Post count: 3477

      @nobody thank you I really appreciate the time you’ve put into this thread and the other thread.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      You’re welcome @tampaspicer !

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    • Graham

      Participant
      Post count: 1768

      Looks like Denver trading up is out of the question.  They may take Lock if he’s available, but I don’t see them moving up for him now.

      Do we really think Miami is prepared to tank for Tua?  They could be a double trade back partner as well at #13.

      I’m in the middle of a mock on a different forum and took Polite at #5.  I’m also drafting for Miami and Ed Oliver was available at #13.  Greedy went 10th.

      With Bowles’ emphasis on aggressively blitzing back end coverage will be even more paramount.  Greedy has to be in the conversation regardless of the d-line talent available.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      I agree that he does. I don’t know why people are pushing back against him so hard.

      Ultrarare size and length

      Ultrarare discipline and route recognition

      Rare movement skills and ultrarare for a big CB

      Played Off, Press, and Bail

      Played Man and Quarters

      Ball skills and production

       

      The only if mild concern are run support and physicality on in-cuts.

      If the ultrarare DL talent is there, you have to prioritize that. But if those few guys aren’t there when you’re picking…

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    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      I am lukewarm on Greedy. Nice player but top 10?
      I think he has a OJ type draft, he will slip a bit and then someone will snag him in the teens.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      You’ve got a lot of company on these boards it seems. I see a lot of people lukewarm (or worse) on Greedy Williams.

      It seems to be that a lot of people are trying to make the comparison to Mo Claeborne (which I don’t see at all, outside of the fact they played at the same school) or the run support/lack of being big bodied freaks them out.

      Corners can be somewhat difficult to project, but I see a lot of traits that I really really like even before you get to the size/length.

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    • BucsBay

      Participant
      Post count: 1932

      After watching the FSU tape, I wanted to like Jachai Polite. After watching the Michigan tape, I just can’t though. Dude doesn’t have any plan with his hands and just gets stuck on blocks. The one play I saw him make (maybe I missed some because I got tired of watching him fail), he got a strip sack but didn’t realize it was a fumble and just left the ball sitting on the ground for the offense to recover.

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    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      You’ve got a lot of company on these boards it seems. I see a lot of people lukewarm (or worse) on Greedy Williams.

      It seems to be that a lot of people are trying to make the comparison to Mo Claeborne (which I don’t see at all, outside of the fact they played at the same school) or the run support/lack of being big bodied freaks them out.

      Corners can be somewhat difficult to project, but I see a lot of traits that I really really like even before you get to the size/length.

      For me its more positional. No hate for Greedy, but I feel we need to beef up both lines first.

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    • BucsBay

      Participant
      Post count: 1932

      You’ve got a lot of company on these boards it seems. I see a lot of people lukewarm (or worse) on Greedy Williams.

      It seems to be that a lot of people are trying to make the comparison to Mo Claeborne (which I don’t see at all, outside of the fact they played at the same school) or the run support/lack of being big bodied freaks them out.

      Corners can be somewhat difficult to project, but I see a lot of traits that I really really like even before you get to the size/length.

      Beyond the obviously similar body types, and having gone to the same school, my comparison to Claiborne is because neither is a press CB. Both are quarters coverage guys that count on their length. What do you see about Greedy that’s that different than Mo?

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    • Graham

      Participant
      Post count: 1768

      After watching the FSU tape, I wanted to like Jachai Polite. After watching the Michigan tape, I just can’t though. Dude doesn’t have any plan with his hands and just gets stuck on blocks. The one play I saw him make (maybe I missed some because I got tired of watching him fail), he got a strip sack but didn’t realize it was a fumble and just left the ball sitting on the ground for the offense to recover.

      <iframe style=”height: 136.125px;” src=”https://www.youtube.com/embed/LqggMXbcmaM?feature=oembed&#8221; name=”fitvid0″ width=”100%” frameborder=”0″ allowfullscreen=””></iframe>

      Not making excuses, but the bowl game for a projected top 15 pick may not be the best tape to look at.

      He’s protecting himself on a lot of those plays if they were away from him. At least that’s what I see. Can’t blame him. If it was me I wouldn’t even suit up.

      He looked like a completely different player in other games.

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    • Pepsi

      Participant
      Post count: 2047

      You’ve got a lot of company on these boards it seems. I see a lot of people lukewarm (or worse) on Greedy Williams.

      It seems to be that a lot of people are trying to make the comparison to Mo Claeborne (which I don’t see at all, outside of the fact they played at the same school) or the run support/lack of being big bodied freaks them out.

      Corners can be somewhat difficult to project, but I see a lot of traits that I really really like even before you get to the size/length.

      For me its more positional. No hate for Greedy, but I feel we need to beef up both lines first.

      yea thats same for me. I really like Greedy as a corner prospect, high odds for me that hes going to be good. Its corner at top 5 that is killer for me. Id hate to draft a corner with pick 5 unless theyre insane rare prospects like Patrick Peterson or Ramsey. Greedy is a bonafide first round corner, the type that I think comes along every couple of years..sometimes top 10 rated, sometimes top 20 rated. but pick 5 is where you never plan to be again and you want to take advantage of that with either the top QB, or a top Lineman(either side), or some super elite guy regardless of position (like an OJ Howard, Barkley, Nelson, Mike Evans)

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    • Cerious

      Participant
      Post count: 993

      Any thoughts on Ferguson possibly falling out of the 1st round now that his Combine Invite has been rescinded?

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      I’m pretty time-limited right now, so I’m not going to be able to be thorough with everything.


      @BucsBay

      Ive reviewed 4 games of Polite (2 of which I highlighted in my review, but I don’t think Michigan was one of them.

      He isn’t a stack and shed or a push > pull player in the run game. He’s kind of a shock and slip player or just outright violently win the angle and leverage position sort of player. He doesn’t win with wingspan + hands. He wins like a typical athletic, violent freak Spur LB.

      He does have some issues when wingspan, huge base OL win Strike initiative and or he can’t gwt hip to hip.

      These are the BAD traits I noted in his review. If you have a moment, maybe give me some time stamps of plays you have problems with on that Michigan tape and I’ll take a look this weekend.

      THE BAD

      * Size and wingspan isn’t what you want for an End. He is going to be a stand-up player at the next level.

      * When he doesn’t win with his crazy athleticism/mobility and edge protectors get their hands on him with a good base, his rush is stopped cold (which will happen more at the next level).

      * No Speed to Power rush (functional strength, but it doesn’t translate to the rush game).

      * Given he is invariably going to be playing Spur LB in the NFL, he is going to have to prove he can cover Flat and single RBs (with those movement skills and his general awareness in space, he easily predicts and handles pullers/kick-outs, I see no reason to believe he can’t be a solid or + coverage player).

      * Though he works and is violent and is generally good at taking on players with the correct shoulder to handle his run responsibilities, he has limited ability to anchor the PoA on plays at him.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      Any thoughts on Ferguson possibly falling out of the 1st round now that his Combine Invite has been rescinded?

      Given what I’m aware of currently (which may not be all of it), I’d be very surprised if that knocked him down to rd 2.

      If he was available with our pick, we have to sprint to the podium.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      As far as the differences between Mo and Greedy. I see very little overlap between these two outside of ++ length (which, I expect Greedy to actually come in a few inches more in span), slightness-of-build, and they played boundary CB for LSU.

      Differences:

      * Greedy is 4 inches taller with even more length. And he uses that length better. His catch point challenge/timing is better than Mo’s and it isn’t as reckless as Mo’s (he’s not penalty prone). The only concern there is when he deploys it on in-cuts (rarely he gets a little too aggressive there).

      * Mo’s poor movement skills were masked by his great 40. He was terrible at 3 cone, Broad, and Vert, all of which are tightly linked to CB athleticism (MUCH more than 40). My guess is Greedy comes in above him (perhaps well above him) at all 3 of those (despite being a much taller player).

      * Greedy’s instincts, discipline, and boundary CB IQ are LEAPS AND BOUNDS better than Mo’s were. He never bites on pre-stem feints and leans, his movement/footwork is extraordinarily efficient (mostly because of the former, but also technique), and he seems to be able to infer route language very well based on offensive player movement/formation/down and distance. He is rarely not attached and within that ridiculous span’s capability.

      * Mo was better in run support and better in college at route disruption in Press (though Greedy isn’t really looking for a ton of disruption…just to dictate a little…and that is all he needs it seems).

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      If Greedy’s 3 Cone, Broad, and Vert all come in poorly?

      That would be a red flag and cause to stay away. CBs almost universally need to prove those explosive, dynamic change of direction traits.

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    • Pennywise

      Participant
      Post count: 9745

      Personally I dont think greedy is the best Williams cb from the sec,I think jojuan Williams ends up the better pro

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    • BucsBay

      Participant
      Post count: 1932

      JoeJuan is a freak. A number of good looking CBs in this draft. I like Baker and Rockya Sin best because they don’t give separation.

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    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      Any thoughts on Ferguson possibly falling out of the 1st round now that his Combine Invite has been rescinded?

      Given what I’m aware of currently (which may not be all of it), I’d be very surprised if that knocked him down to rd 2.

      If he was available with our pick, we have to sprint to the podium.

      It was announced today Ferguson and Simmons and Preston Williams will all be paid to fly to the combine and go thru the medicals.

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    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      JAYLON FERGUSON
      NFL Combine Drama?
      THAT’LL HELP MY DRAFT STOCK!!!

      2/15/2019 5:36 PM PST
      EXCLUSIVE

      Jaylon Ferguson — the projected 1st-round pick who was disinvited and then reinvited to the NFL Combine — ain’t sweating the drama one bit … telling TMZ Sports, it’s only gonna HELP his draft stock.

      Here’s the backstory … the 23-year-old Louisiana Tech pass rusher was reportedly arrested for fighting at a McDonald’s during his freshman year. He was later convicted of simple battery.

      Per NFL rules … if a player is found guilty of a misdemeanor or a felony involving violence — their Combine invite will be pulled.

      Since Ferguson went on to become the NCAA’s all-time career sack leader (with 45) — NFL teams are VERY interested in him. Which makes the Combine drama even more interesting.

      Ferguson’s story has blown up on social media — where people are arguing Ferguson deserves an opportunity to attend the Combine if only to explain his side of the story to GMs … and on Friday, the NFL caved.

      Jaylon still won’t be able to work out at the annual event … but, he’s at least now able to go and interview with teams — and he says he’s JACKED for the opportunity.

      But, Ferguson also says this whole drama is only going to HELP him get picked higher in April’s NFL draft.

      “Now that I got my name out there more, more people know me. More people heard of me.”

      As for the fighting incident … Jaylon says it’s a non-issue, telling us, “I’m not even the same person.”

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    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      Another guy who I will be very interested to see where he is drafted and if the no workouts at the combine will affect him.

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    • Havok904

      Participant
      Post count: 13021

      @Nobody
      I think Devin White could be a
      Day One pick. With today’s pass happy league, I’m pretty sure he would have no problem covering sideline to sideline.

      I would also say Devin Bush,
      Vosean Joseph, Mack Wilson,
      and Tre Lamar are a group of talented linebackers that may go mid to late first round or early to mid second round.

      What do you think?

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      @Havok904

      I looked at Mack, Bush, Pratt, Coney, and Lamar in my other thread.

      Of those guys, the guys that showed to be good coverage players (both Zone and Man) were Mack and Pratt.

      I’m not familiar with Joseph. I’ll have to take a look at him.

      The primary issue I have trying to project Bush and White as NFL coverage players is that they both had very limited “coverage asks” at LSU and Mich due to (a) the particular defenses they played in and (b) the positions they played on those respective defenses.

      They’re both blitzing a lot and/or playing on-ball a large number of snaps. Michigan plays some C2Z and C2Z Trap, but Bush is rarely dropping in those scenarios. And they weren’t great when he did. And neither of them played Man on Slot or stupidly athletic Move TE players on the 3-4 games I watched (which they’ll have to do next level). And LSU brackets RBs in Man while Michigan Green Dogs a lot.

      I really wanted to like either of those guys, but I didn’t see anything on tape to make me confident projecting them as quality NFL coverage players.

      That is why I like Pratt so much. He has some issues dealing with 2nd level climbers/trash in the running game…but man can he cover, run sideline to sideline and make plays.

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    • Havok904

      Participant
      Post count: 13021

      @NOBODY
      Thanks!!!

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      You bet!

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    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089


      Vosean

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      Just a quick update on this thread as Greedy Williams keeps being brought up.

      I’ve been watching more tape on him to focus solely on his run support.

      Man, does he have a lot of “business decision” tape out there in his run support. Frustrating to watch. Typically, this kind of thing bothers the hell out of me. But he is so good in coverage (and good god does this team desperately need good coverage players on the back end), that I can look past it. But its worn on me a little bit.

      I’ll just finish with this. Personally, the Combine is mostly relevant for DBs (and CBs specifically) as their play is by far the most closely correlated to the metrics they test. Post-combine, I’ll definitely be moving DBs/CBs around. To that end (and in light of the frustrating run support issues that are all over his tape) if Greedy doesn’t test well in the relevant drills, I’m going to move him down proportionately (possibly a fair bit).

      If he tests great though (relative to his body archetype), then just forget about the run support issues. That would make it impossible to not project him as a great coverage player at the next level.

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    • The Anti-Java

      Participant
      Post count: 7089

      I have stated before I do not like Greedy at all @5.
      Later on maybe, if they do a trade down.
      He does not blow me away as the best athlete in the draft.
      A few years back, Patrick Peterson was hands down the best athlete in the draft.

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    • tampaspicer

      Participant
      Post count: 3477

      @nobody during your reviews of Greedy and D White was there another player that caught your eye? Don’t want to derail your thread but wanted to ask because someone caught mine.

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    • Nobody

      Participant
      Post count: 6444

      @nobody during your reviews of Greedy and D White was there another player that caught your eye? Don’t want to derail your thread but wanted to ask because someone caught mine.

      Unfortunately, when I’m reviewing a player, the only reason why I ever look at another player is if I need context for the play call and/or the reviewed player’s assignment. So, negative, there is typically no opportunity for another player to stand out (unless I’m reviewing DL and someone is wreaking havoc in the same area and triggering play losses).

      Who stood out for you?

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    • tampaspicer

      Participant
      Post count: 3477

      @nobody during your reviews of Greedy and D White was there another player that caught your eye? Don’t want to derail your thread but wanted to ask because someone caught mine.

      Unfortunately, when I’m reviewing a player, the only reason why I ever look at another player is if I need context for the play call and/or the reviewed player’s assignment. So, negative, there is typically no opportunity for another player to stand out (unless I’m reviewing DL and someone is wreaking havoc in the same area and triggering play losses).

      Who stood out for you?

      Safety Grant Delpit #9. He’ll be eligible for next years draft.

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